Ukraine wants in to NATO

[José]

And the avalanche of lies simply does not stop.

It's not "dictator" Vladimir Putin who's demanding the end of Nato expansion.

Every russian leader during the last 30 years begged the West to stop it, the entire Russian society demands it:

Former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev has criticized NATO's eastward expansion and the failure by Western powers to keep their promise not to deploy military bases near Russia's borders.

Gorbachev blasts NATO eastward expansion

en.rian.ru // 02.04.2009

www.gorby.ru

“I see nothing but humiliation for Russia if you proceed …. Why do you want to do this? We need a new structure for Pan-European security, not old ones! .... But for me to agree to the borders of NATO expanding towards those of Russia – that would constitute a betrayal on my part of the Russian people.”

Boris Yeltsin

NATO Expansion: What Yeltsin Heard | National Security Archive

 

[Thunderbird]

It's a bit too lake to take NATO off the table. Putin wants all of Ukraine.

It’s not clear Putin wants to occupy Ukraine indefinitely.

A resolute united West should push both Ukraine and Russia toward compromise.

This tragic war only serves the interests of Xi Jin Ping.

 

[Thunderbird]

You nip this crap of PUtting invading smaller countries in order to avoid WW3. Allowing him to attack smaller countries such as Hitler did, is how WW2 started.

You war-mongers think everyone you dislike is a madman bent on world domination.

Your analogy doesn’t work on a fundamental level. Unlike Hitler in the 30’s Putin doesn’t need to arm himself. He already has lots of nuclear weapons.

The corporate media is demonizing Putin right now and ignoring NATO expansionists and Ukrainian atrocities in the Donbas. Don’t be fooled.

If we’re not careful dumb historical analogies are going to lead to hundreds of millions of corpses.

 

[Thunderbird]

No, I abhor weakness, which is what you frightened children project.

We should be resolute, resolute to push both Ukraine and Russia and NATO to the bargaining table.

If we want to show strength, we should show strength against the Chinese Communists.

 

[georgephillip]

If Ukraine had jointed NATO, it might have weaken the alliance but one thing is for sure, Putin's invasion of the Ukraine has certainly strengthen it.

There's no doubt about that at this moment.

I wonder how that support will change if the US dollar sees its global reserve currency status decline between now and next November?

Financial sanctions against Russia will create wide-ranging impact

"There is widespread support among the Western powers.

"Collective actions are more powerful when it comes to financial and economic sanctions.

"But China’s absence has important implications, both for the effectiveness of the sanctions and the global financial order in the long run.

"It will be interesting to see if and how China facilitates the flow of international funds to Russian entities to circumvent the effects of the sanctions.

"Perhaps China and Russia together can come up with an alternative payment system to SWIFT, or the Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication.."

 

[colfax_m]

NATO members, NOT NATO. There is a difference.

No, NATO. I know there’s a difference, but I meant what I said.

 

[j-mac]

I see no parallel. Ukraine has no defense treaty with NATO or anyone else. An attack on Taiwan would involve the US directly per the terms of the Sino-American Mutual Defense Treat.

Yeah? Well, I’ve heard in here that we wouldn’t do anything…

We should be resolute, resolute to push both Ukraine and Russia and NATO to the bargaining table.

If we want to show strength, we should show strength against the Chinese Communists.

Show strength? The administration refuses to show strength. Just now on Meet the Press, Blinkin, when asked about a 'no fly zone', said that we wouldn't do that because, "We might have to shoot down a Russian plane"..... That's weakness period.

 

[Thunderbird]

Yeah? Well, I’ve heard in here that we wouldn’t do anything…

Show strength? The administration refuses to show strength. Just now on Meet the Press, Blinkin, when asked about a 'no fly zone', said that we wouldn't do that because, "We might have to shoot down a Russian plane"..... That's weakness period.

Are you crazy? During the Cold War for forty years we avoided direct military conflict with the Russians for a reason. Do you really want to see Xi Jin Ping dancing with glee as WW III incinerates W Europe, Ukraine, Russia, and North America?

 

[saveliberty]

What does "to NATO" mean? Some kind of new dance move? Drink til you puke? Hair style?

 

[Opie]

Question is: Should we?

Hell no. Ukraine is a more corrupt then Russia. Given they are a sovereign country that don’t mean we put them in our alliance and out ourselves and all of Europe at war with Russia AND CHINA because not sure if you know but at the Bejing Olympics i believe they made a little under the table deal with a wink and nod. we are laser focused on Russi. How does the left hand don’t know what the right hand is doing saying go??

 

[Opie]

No Ukraine into NATO...get it?

I’ll add one more for good referenc, No

 

[Flopper]

Intermediate range missiles can range Moscow from the UK. Soviet missiles can hit any target in Europe from Russian territory. Putin isn’t afraid of NATO missiles, he’s afraid of having a prosperous democracy that used to be part of the USSR on his border that gives his population something to compare their standard of living to.

In regard to missiles, the US has 68 nuclear subs, 11 of which carry about a dozen missiles with nuclear war head with a ranges of 4.6 to 12 thousand miles. More can be setup if time allows. When the order is given to release these missiles on their preassigned targets in Russia that order can not be resented it their is no command structure to do so. So even it the Russians destroy Washington and the naval control centers, the misses will be lunched. That means dozens of nuclear warhead will be headed to Moscow, St. Petersburg, Novosibirs, Yekaterinburg, and other cities, and launch sites. In other words, a nuclear attack on the US would be a nuclear insured destruction. This is why there will not be an attack provided each side has a way out. If we box Putin in such that he believes he has no option but a first strike, he will certainly do so.

 

[Flopper]

And the avalanche of lies simply does not stop.

It's not "dictator" Vladimir Putin who's demanding the end of Nato expansion.

Every russian leader during the last 30 years begged the West to stop it, the entire Russian society demands it:

Former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev has criticized NATO's eastward expansion and the failure by Western powers to keep their promise not to deploy military bases near Russia's borders.

Gorbachev blasts NATO eastward expansion

en.rian.ru // 02.04.2009

www.gorby.ru

“I see nothing but humiliation for Russia if you proceed …. Why do you want to do this? We need a new structure for Pan-European security, not old ones! .... But for me to agree to the borders of NATO expanding towards those of Russia – that would constitute a betrayal on my part of the Russian people.”

Boris Yeltsin

NATO Expansion: What Yeltsin Heard | National Security Archive

The other side of the coin is most European countries can not protect themselves against a Russia attack of hundreds of thousands of troops, tanks and squadrons of MIGs and bombers. NATO is the only game in town.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I agree with a part of your post but not WWII.
The Soviet departure from the Ukraine in WWII followed a scorched earth policy, taking the leadership and those they could use for slave labor or whatever. About 4 million were taken, killing tens of thousands and burring crops and stores of food.

Initially, the Germans were greeted as liberators by some of the Ukrainian populace. However, as starvation continued and the Nazis needed scapegoats for not being unable to follow Hitler's plan, the death camps were opened and the same old scapegoats, Jews and Communist were rounded up and 4 million were killed. 2.2 million Ukrainians were deported to German and other places as slave labor. Gorilla warfare broken out with heavy Ukrainian and Nazi deaths. When the Russians returned to the Ukraine, the weaken Nazi forces were defeated. By that time little remained on Ukraine population in the cities, most had either died in death camps, victims of the Russia and Nazi exit, gorilla warfare or deportations to Germany and other Nazi countries. Some escaped to small villages and towns.

Under the USSR, the Ukraine was repopulated mostly with Russians and repatriated deportees. Ukraine was rebuild with help of the Russians and it become the jewel in the crown of the USSR. Although Ukraine had little voice in their country, there was peace for over 50 years.

Ukraine became the center of the Soviet arms industry and high-tech research. The republic was also turned into a Soviet military outpost in the cold war, a territory crowded by military bases packed with the most up-to-date weapons systems. Parts of country became a resort for top Russian officials and a respite for soldiers and other government officials. It's most likely that Puten spent time in the Ukraine.

Ukraine - Nazi Occupation, Soviet, Genocide

Ukraine - Nazi Occupation, Soviet, Genocide: The surprise German invasion of the U.S.S.R. began on June 22, 1941. The Soviets, during their hasty retreat, shot their political prisoners and, whenever possible, evacuated personnel, dismantled and removed industrial plants, and conducted a...

www.britannica.com

How did they train gorillas for warfare?

I hope you didn't cut and paste that literary abortion.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Flopper
The other side of the coin is most European countries can not protect themselves against a Russia attack of hundreds of thousands of troops, tanks and squadrons of MIGs and bombers. NATO is the only game in town.

America, a country that can defend itself way better than Russia, would never accept the presence of a military alliance in Mexico and the Caribbean under the pretext of protecting Latin America from american aggression. AT THE VERY LEAST, America would demand a buffer zone between its borders and the foreign alliance troops.

As a result of Nato expansion, you have a military force three times the size of Russia's, bordering the west of the country (the heart of the nation, where 90% of the population lives). It's pretty obvious who poses the greater threat. And Napoleon and Hitler (among many other less known invaders) are here to prove Western Europe may pose a threat to Russia in the future.

Why is the presence of a foreign military alliance bordering the US unacceptable for America and "the only game in town" for Russia?

Why is Russia's security less important than America's?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Question is: Should we?

They should have been allowed in YEARS ago.

Trash organization that isn't worth being in.

Women and children are being murdered by Russia but NATO is a bunch of PUSSY NATIONS that are more concerned with a good image on the 5 o'clock news than actually saving lives.


FUCK
NATO



CLEAR?






FUCK
NATO

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

NATO is a fucking joke.

You and me are in a pact on our block to protect each other.....


That stranger and HIS KIDS one block over can fuck off and die......


THATS NATO IN 2022

 

[justoffal]

Question is: Should we?

NO.... They do not even meet the minimal standards for human rights observations. Ukraine has a horrific record in dealing with minorities.... People of color specifically..... But also any other people considered to be of the same skin color but different nationalities....Russian nationals for instance. Russia actually has a better human rights policy... as poor as it is... than Ukraine does. Remember Zelensky is a Soros disciple. Both Jewish both Nazi and both absolutely ruthless despite appearances.

Jo

 

[justoffal]

NATO is a fucking joke.

You and me are in a pact on our block to protect each other.....


That stranger and HIS KIDS one block over can fuck off and die......


THATS NATO IN 2022

You don't understand what NATO really is. It is no longer what it was originally formed as.
It now only masquerades as a defense pact. If you watch closely you will observe that NATO is always involved in the interests of the European Banks but not the interests of the people they claim to protect.

Ukraine wants to join NATO so they can dodge their massive debt to Russia. Basically they're looking for the permission to become international freeloaders. Now that Russia has exacted a massive toll on them maybe that debt will be canceled.

Jo

 

[Colin norris]

Impending Nato membership for Ukraine was a an absolute guarantee of Russian intervention, and more than a few well known diplomats and diplomatic historians warned of exactly what you see today if Nato continued its expansion, they began those warnings not in 2008, but rather all the way back in 1990/91! Biden getting elected was a paradigm shift from Trump and Putin knew exactly what was coming, this invasion was all but set in stone upon Biden's usurping the presidency!

Absolute rubbish. Putin has yearned for its return for 20 years. You'll say anything to blame Biden. Griw up.

That said, Putin still attempted negotiation by staging the invasion over almost 7-months, clearly looking for attention from the lost Biden government, and all they seemed to get in return was just more fascist democrat mocking derision,

no. He told putin it was wrong and they would defend a democracy like Ukraine. You know nothing.

and scapegoating for events that everyone, most especially Putin, Biden, and Biden's fascist democrats all knew was total fucking BS!

you do carry on with some bullshit. Trumps j6 riots was the only fascist takeover in America. Nothing to do with Biden comrade.

Now, Biden pretends to levy sanctions, whilst simultaneously refusing to sanction the one thing that might have served to deter Putin, and that because Biden needs Putin to help cement a new totally faux nuclear deal with Iran, so Biden may posture, and preen his psychopathic ass before a presumed worshipful base!

You need medication for your delusions. That has never been considered and you know it.

Both those ridiculous scenarios can only be achieved by an ally of putin and Iran. That's Trump. He loves fascists and dictators. He gets love letters from Kim fuk wit.

So cut the silly predictions and lies.