Under Bush US's 400 richest doubled their wealth

[RodISHI]

Actually my pay was cut by 10% last week. Guess that gives me the right to piss and moan, huh?

Couple MSM axioms I guess you weren't they ARE liberal biased and bad news (i.e. people out of work) sells better than good news (companies that treat their employees well). I guess



Bad judgement, laziness, lack of ambition, unfullfilled potential, etc. Call it whatever you want. The fact remains there are two types of people in this world. People like you who blame everyone else for their problems, who don't hold themeselves accountable and believe it is the obligation of other to take care of them. Obviously there a lot of you. And people like me who get that the person with most control over my future is me and act accordingly.

Sure bad judgment in trusting a manufacturing company is not sending you something that was designed from the factory to fail. Or is that bad judgment that a judge would rule opposite of banker testimony in favor for a bank that his cousin was a CEO of that provided the bank and a company that made those internal parts on that designed to fail equipment? Sure, sure bern it's jsut a whiney thing I do because I made some bad decisions when I refused to sign off that I would not sue the bastards for what they did!

Or was it my bad decision to falsify documents on these loans?

Maybe it was my bad decision that they stole my dozer too! Or bad decisions for them sending out erroneous 1099's. Or how about my bad decision when the bank shorted my working capital by eighty grand so I could not rent a working machine when that one that was designed to fail from the factory got to me?

STFU when you have no clue as to what you are saying others have experienced.

Bern and most other right wingers NEVER see things from the people's perspectives.

Or, they always tend to want to defend the corporation.

But at least they are in the minority now.

Sorry sealybobo that does not do a thing for me because see it was a DEM lawyer that declined to tell me he actually worked for the bank when he was claiming he was looking out for our best interest. It was a DEM governor here and DEM sheriff that stole my dozer and all of my husband's equipment plus raided my home and threaten to arrest me when I made an official report after he stole my dozer, a DEM AG that was and is still in charge here when I called asking fopr help as I was being threatened by law enforcement several times.

It is DEM locals that shuffle property around here regardless of who actually has the deed to the property.

Should I go on?

 

[American Horse]

Do you have a link for obama saying he would raise the capital gains tax to 29%....right now it is 15% for some with lesser income and 20% for others with higher income, or something like that...

...but there needs to be more clarity in the capital gains hike that you CLAIM obama is going to do, before i get in to the being outraged mode....

I did not make that CLAIM. I merely used several figures publicly touted to show how people making financial decisions were likely to be impacted and the relative merit to various rates, and also to show that ordinary folks, not just the very wealthy were affected. To delay decisions is to forfeit opportunities.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LNqBS5OyqM"]Of interest here might be Obama in his own words.[/ame]
In this video clip he says "I would certainly not go above what existed under Bill Clinton: 28%" To a supporter hearing this it is taken at face value. To an investor who is not necessarily a supporter, something different is heard. To someone with assets at risk, it is easier to believe that something that has happened before can happen again. Subtle nuances aside, claims of different tax rates for differing income levels don't mean much to someone looking for simplicity in how to deal with their property. What has to be appreciated here on the subject of these taxes vis-a-vis campaign rhetoric, is that words mean things.

"WASHINGTON -- Though the election is still four months away, Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama's plan to raise the capital gains tax rate already is causing anxiety on Wall Street.

Some financial advisers are warning clients -- many of them in high-income brackets -- to be prepared to shed stocks and other assets to take advantage of the current 15 percent capital gains rate if Obama wins in November and brings along a strong Democratic majority in Congress.

Quite simply, any increase in taxes on investment activities is certainly a negative for the investor community and a negative for capital raising and the financial markets," said David Dietze, president and chief investment strategist for Point View Financial Services..."

 

[Truthmatters]

Guess what the US voter desided to go with?

 

[editec]

I sincerely hope that at THIS TIME, Obama and Congress to NOT raise taxes on ANYONE except of course importers of cha-cha (read" consider changing from FREE TRADE to fair trade policies)

At this time raising taxes, even on the superwealthy, would be a terrible mistake.

 

[American Horse]

Guess what the US voter desided to go with?

No debate on that subject Truth

The subject at hand is the efficacy of various capital gains rates and who and/or what is affected by them; whether negatively or positively first by the campaign rhetoric and now by any policies on them that might be signed into law.

..

 

[DiamondDave]

I sincerely hope that at THIS TIME, Obama and Congress to NOT raise taxes on ANYONE except of course importers of cha-cha (read" consider changing from FREE TRADE to fair trade policies)

At this time raising taxes, even on the superwealthy, would be a terrible mistake.

edit

I agree with you on this... I don't see any reason not to increase import taxes or tariffs... and I don't see raising of any domestic taxes as being a good thing for the economy

 

[sealybobo]

I sincerely hope that at THIS TIME, Obama and Congress to NOT raise taxes on ANYONE except of course importers of cha-cha (read" consider changing from FREE TRADE to fair trade policies)

At this time raising taxes, even on the superwealthy, would be a terrible mistake.

If you raised taxes on the super wealthy, they will still do business.

When times are good, the rich want tax breaks. When times are bad, the rich want tax breaks.

All they should do is undo any tax breaks that are given to overseas companies. If it aint made in America, tax it.

And I'm sorry, but Exxon needs to lose the unfair tax breaks they were given. If they jack up the price, then Congress can jack up their costs of drilling. Oh yea, I forgot, the GOP passed a law when they were in power that the US government can NEVER charge the oil companies more than x amount of $ per barrell.

Does that make any sense? Why would we give such a fucking stupid deal to oil companies on a product that becomes more rare/scarce by the day. Sure, lets lock em in at $20 a barrell. Yea, that's the ticket.

So now we can't make the oil companies pay their fair share? I say bullshit.

I heard a great idea about cutting out or into FICA? Payroll taxes? Someone on tv said that would put money in the workers hands as well as the companies.

 

[American Horse]

I sincerely hope that at THIS TIME, Obama and Congress to NOT raise taxes on ANYONE except of course importers of cha-cha (read" consider changing from FREE TRADE to fair trade policies)

At this time raising taxes, even on the superwealthy, would be a terrible mistake.

Editec,

Would you give a summary of the important elements of fair versus free trade, as you see them? Perhaps you have a good link where the differences could be explored? I have opinions but not ones that are very well developed.

 

[Truthmatters]

The people who have money know how to make money in any market.

They gained the most over the last few years and now they can pitch in and help this country fix its problems dont you think?

 

[American Horse]

The people who have money know how to make money in any market.

A small minority may, but most are trying to preserve wealth in the present economic climate.

They gained the most over the last few years and now they can pitch in and help this country fix its problems dont you think?

I agree with that. What's the best way to do that: free up capital, or tax wealth derived from capital, or confiscate wealth?

..

 

[Bern80]

Actually my pay was cut by 10% last week. Guess that gives me the right to piss and moan, huh?

Couple MSM axioms I guess you weren't they ARE liberal biased and bad news (i.e. people out of work) sells better than good news (companies that treat their employees well). I guess



Bad judgement, laziness, lack of ambition, unfullfilled potential, etc. Call it whatever you want. The fact remains there are two types of people in this world. People like you who blame everyone else for their problems, who don't hold themeselves accountable and believe it is the obligation of other to take care of them. Obviously there a lot of you. And people like me who get that the person with most control over my future is me and act accordingly.

Sure bad judgment in trusting a manufacturing company is not sending you something that was designed from the factory to fail. Or is that bad judgment that a judge would rule opposite of banker testimony in favor for a bank that his cousin was a CEO of that provided the bank and a company that made those internal parts on that designed to fail equipment? Sure, sure bern it's jsut a whiney thing I do because I made some bad decisions when I refused to sign off that I would not sue the bastards for what they did!

Or was it my bad decision to falsify documents on these loans?

Maybe it was my bad decision that they stole my dozer too! Or bad decisions for them sending out erroneous 1099's. Or how about my bad decision when the bank shorted my working capital by eighty grand so I could not rent a working machine when that one that was designed to fail from the factory got to me?

STFU when you have no clue as to what you are saying others have experienced.

Bern and most other right wingers NEVER see things from the people's perspectives.

Or, they always tend to want to defend the corporation.

But at least they are in the minority now.

I don't know how many times I'm going to need to correct you on this. To YOU it unfathomable that somene like me hold the position I do. I am someone who has never made more 25k a year. I HAVE taken welfare. I currently do work on a production line. I did take a 10% pay cut. Don't fucking tell me I don't know what it's like for the blue collar workers or that I can't relate. Fuck, call me a liar if it's convenient for your argument, but I AM the little guy you arrogant piece of shit.

I hold contrarty views to you because fortunately I was brought up in an environment where almost anyone who had any influence on me was in business for themselves. You can sit there and say I don't have any perspective and can't see things from someone's perspective. The reality is I know BOTH sides quite. And with pricks like you, RodISHI, Shogun, etc. it is proof positive that owning a business is a pretty thankless venture.

 

[RodISHI]

Sure bad judgment in trusting a manufacturing company is not sending you something that was designed from the factory to fail. Or is that bad judgment that a judge would rule opposite of banker testimony in favor for a bank that his cousin was a CEO of that provided the bank and a company that made those internal parts on that designed to fail equipment? Sure, sure bern it's jsut a whiney thing I do because I made some bad decisions when I refused to sign off that I would not sue the bastards for what they did!

Or was it my bad decision to falsify documents on these loans?

Maybe it was my bad decision that they stole my dozer too! Or bad decisions for them sending out erroneous 1099's. Or how about my bad decision when the bank shorted my working capital by eighty grand so I could not rent a working machine when that one that was designed to fail from the factory got to me?

STFU when you have no clue as to what you are saying others have experienced.

Bern and most other right wingers NEVER see things from the people's perspectives.

Or, they always tend to want to defend the corporation.

But at least they are in the minority now.

I don't know how many times I'm going to need to correct you on this. To YOU it unfathomable that somene like me hold the position I do. I am someone who has never made more 25k a year. I HAVE taken welfare. I currently do work on a production line. I did take a 10% pay cut. Don't fucking tell me I don't know what it's like for the blue collar workers or that I can't relate. Fuck, call me a liar if it's convenient for your argument, but I AM the little guy you arrogant piece of shit.

I hold contrarty views to you because fortunately I was brought up in an environment where almost anyone who had any influence on me was in business for themselves. You can sit there and say I don't have any perspective and can't see things from someone's perspective. The reality is I know BOTH sides quite. And with pricks like you, RodISHI, Shogun, etc. it is proof positive that owning a business is a pretty thankless venture.

So are you now saying you own that family business that makes luxury items bern?

I have been one both sides of the fence too bern. If I for one minute thought that businesses could not survive giving their employees a wage increase I would say so. Fact is though many businesses are struggling to pay executive wages to bankers, investment fund gurus and insurance companies.

I am not willing to say businesses that can't pay the people working a living wage deserve to stay in business. Fact is blame it on the insurance companies, the bankers and those type people who are willing to drive gas and the cost of living in general out of sight so the working man can't even afford to go to work or live in a decent manner. NOT THE WORKER!

If that makes me a "prick" so be it.

 

[Bern80]

So are you now saying you own that family business that makes luxury items bern?{/QUOTE]

I thought I was pretty clear on my current job function. Is there a point you are trying to make here?

I have been one both sides of the fence too bern. If I for one minute thought that businesses could not survive giving their employees a wage increase I would say so. Fact is though many businesses are struggling to pay executive wages to bankers, investment fund gurus and insurance companies.

I am not willing to say businesses that can't pay the people working a living wage deserve to stay in business. Fact is blame it on the insurance companies, the bankers and those type people who are willing to drive gas and the cost of living in general out of sight so the working man can't even afford to go to work or live in a decent manner. NOT THE WORKER!

If that makes me a "prick" so be it.

You have to show some actual evidence of what claim is going on. First 70% of this country is small business. I'm fairly certian they aren't all paying investment bankers and the like. Secondly, if you REALLY want to improve your situation, stop playing the blame game. Maybe what happened to you really was unfair. But where is pretending that's how all of corporate America is and blaming, and waiting for government to fix it getting you?

 

[RodISHI]

So are you now saying you own that family business that makes luxury items bern?

I thought I was pretty clear on my current job function. Is there a point you are trying to make here?

I have been one both sides of the fence too bern. If I for one minute thought that businesses could not survive giving their employees a wage increase I would say so. Fact is though many businesses are struggling to pay executive wages to bankers, investment fund gurus and insurance companies.

I am not willing to say businesses that can't pay the people working a living wage deserve to stay in business. Fact is blame it on the insurance companies, the bankers and those type people who are willing to drive gas and the cost of living in general out of sight so the working man can't even afford to go to work or live in a decent manner. NOT THE WORKER!

If that makes me a "prick" so be it.

You have to show some actual evidence of what claim is going on. First 70% of this country is small business. I'm fairly certian they aren't all paying investment bankers and the like.

Secondly, if you REALLY want to improve your situation, stop playing the blame game. Maybe what happened to you really was unfair. But where is pretending that's how all of corporate America is and blaming, and waiting for government to fix it getting you?

Not "really unfair" bern illegal and it was a few of the larger corporations in the US that were involved. It is called equal protection under the law. I have not recieve that at all.

That is still not the point when it comes to paying anyone a living wage. Our government just gave 700 billion dollars to bankers and you want to bitch about some poor soul that desires to work for it and pay their own way with a living wage. They gave the banks over 1 million dollars per every citizen in the United States. Bitch about that not the working man/woman.

As for the US having 70% small business and you thinking the majority of these businesses are not paying insurance/investment bankers you are in error. Every business out there must pay employers insurance. Both business liability and work comp insurance. The majority of those businesses at the very least run on a line of credit of some kind.

It appears you would rather set back and make a bitch at someone who would prefer to see people be able to make a living wage verses be the "lazy dumbass" as some people refer here to them that collects welfare or foodstamps living off of everyone else when it is pretty flagrant and obvious the bankters in this country just took it to the economic graveyard.

 

[user_name_guest]

Actually my pay was cut by 10% last week. Guess that gives me the right to piss and moan, huh?

Couple MSM axioms I guess you weren't they ARE liberal biased and bad news (i.e. people out of work) sells better than good news (companies that treat their employees well). I guess

Bad judgement, laziness, lack of ambition, unfullfilled potential, etc. Call it whatever you want. The fact remains there are two types of people in this world. People like you who blame everyone else for their problems, who don't hold themeselves accountable and believe it is the obligation of other to take care of them. Obviously there a lot of you. And people like me who get that the person with most control over my future is me and act accordingly.

Sure bad judgment in trusting a manufacturing company is not sending you something that was designed from the factory to fail. Or is that bad judgment that a judge would rule opposite of banker testimony in favor for a bank that his cousin was a CEO of that provided the bank and a company that made those internal parts on that designed to fail equipment? Sure, sure bern it's jsut a whiney thing I do because I made some bad decisions when I refused to sign off that I would not sue the bastards for what they did!

Or was it my bad decision to falsify documents on these loans?

Maybe it was my bad decision that they stole my dozer too! Or bad decisions for them sending out erroneous 1099's. Or how about my bad decision when the bank shorted my working capital by eighty grand so I could not rent a working machine when that one that was designed to fail from the factory got to me?

STFU when you have no clue as to what you are saying others have experienced.

Bern and most other right wingers NEVER see things from the people's perspectives.

Or, they always tend to want to defend the corporation.

But at least they are in the minority now.

Too bad you can't see through the blindfolds. You are as biases as the right winger.

 

[KittenKoder]

The funny part of this: The richest people are only as rich as the country, our country is in debt, so they are not really rich are they.

 

[Againsheila]

The funny part of this: The richest people are only as rich as the country, our country is in debt, so they are not really rich are they.

Of course they are. They have most of their money in off shore, tax free accounts in Euros or some other currency that's actually worth something.

 

[Care4all]

The funny part of this: The richest people are only as rich as the country, our country is in debt, so they are not really rich are they.

as long as they can keep reducing their tax rates thus redistributing that national debt to others, they'll be doing fine....imo

 

[Bern80]

That is still not the point when it comes to paying anyone a living wage. Our government just gave 700 billion dollars to bankers and you want to bitch about some poor soul that desires to work for it and pay their own way with a living wage. They gave the banks over 1 million dollars per every citizen in the United States. Bitch about that not the working man/woman.

How do you not see the contradiction you just made? if government mandates that all businesses pay a living wage then YOU aren't really paying your own way at all. Government has mandated that your 'way' be paid by your employer. The reality of all businesses paying a living wage is that they are now mandated to provide your basic needs. They are now the party responsible for your basic survival. Which leads to the question you have time and again refused to answe; Why is it some other parties responsibility, more so than your own, to provide your basic needs?

Please do the courtesy of attempting to answer that. Because that one I can see you maybe having a prayer of coming up with a reaosonable answer because the logisitcs is where your argument would really have problems.

As for the US having 70% small business and you thinking the majority of these businesses are not paying insurance/investment bankers you are in error. Every business out there must pay employers insurance. Both business liability and work comp insurance. The majority of those businesses at the very least run on a line of credit of some kind.

The problem there is that you kinda lumped a bunch a stuff together that really shouldn't be. Lumping insureance in with investment bankers and financial gurus? that makes no sense. For one as you clearly stated one is required by law, the rest aren't. Which is why when I stated most small businesses aren't hiring investment bankers, that is exactly the group I meant and not others.

It appears you would rather set back and make a bitch at someone who would prefer to see people be able to make a living wage verses be the "lazy dumbass" as some people refer here to them that collects welfare or foodstamps living off of everyone else when it is pretty flagrant and obvious the bankters in this country just took it to the economic graveyard.

That's a pretty convenient argument to make. Have some integrity would ya. I would 'prefer' to see people make a living as well. The difference between us is that you feel the respsonsibility falls on some other party to provide that living as oppossed to the individual providing it for themselves.

If you are so upset about the banker bailout I suggest you contact you liberal congressman who almost unanimously voted to do so.

 

[Againsheila]

How do you not see the contradiction you just made? if government mandates that all businesses pay a living wage then YOU aren't really paying your own way at all. Government has mandated that your 'way' be paid by your employer. The reality of all businesses paying a living wage is that they are now mandated to provide your basic needs. They are now the party responsible for your basic survival. Which leads to the question you have time and again refused to answe; Why is it some other parties responsibility, more so than your own, to provide your basic needs?

I'm gonna just take his one little paragraph by Bern. Okay, businesses make their money from their employees ie., without their employees, they wouldn't be making anything. If they don't pay their employees enough to live on, the taxpayer ends up subsidizing the employee and therefor the business. Hence we need to mandate a living wage to insure that the taxpayer doesn't end up subsidizing businesses or the richest people in the world like the Walmart family.