Under Bush US's 400 richest doubled their wealth

[Bern80]

The funny part of this: The richest people are only as rich as the country, our country is in debt, so they are not really rich are they.

as long as they can keep reducing their tax rates thus redistributing that national debt to others, they'll be doing fine....imo

At this rate Obama will see to it that there is plenty of debt to spread around.

The rich have by far the bulk of the tax burden. That isn't debateable. What I want to know is how far you rich bashers want to go. Should they pay ALL of the tax burden? Should only middle and poor rates go down? Should rich tax rates always go up? it's a real head scratcher when the side of the aisle that constantly envokes equality and level playing fields and fairness complains that the 20% who provide 80% of the tax revenue is somehow not paying there fair share.

 

[Againsheila]

The funny part of this: The richest people are only as rich as the country, our country is in debt, so they are not really rich are they.

as long as they can keep reducing their tax rates thus redistributing that national debt to others, they'll be doing fine....imo

At this rate Obama will see to it that there is plenty of debt to spread around.

The rich have by far the bulk of the tax burden. That isn't debateable. What I want to know is how far you rich bashers want to go. Should they pay ALL of the tax burden? Should only middle and poor rates go down? Should rich tax rates always go up? it's a real head scratcher when the side of the aisle that constantly envokes equality and level playing fields and fairness complains that the 20% who provide 80% of the tax revenue is somehow not paying there fair share.

Here's an idea...the top 10% of our country own more wealth than the bottom 90%, how about they pay 90% of the taxes?

 

[Bern80]

I'm gonna just take his one little paragraph by Bern. Okay, businesses make their money from their employees ie., without their employees, they wouldn't be making anything. If they don't pay their employees enough to live on, the taxpayer ends up subsidizing the employee and therefor the business. Hence we need to mandate a living wage to insure that the taxpayer doesn't end up subsidizing businesses or the richest people in the world like the Walmart family.

Another person who hasn't thought about the logistics of such an asanine idea. Instead of picking the 'easy' paragraph how about you answer my question as well.

Why is it someone elses, responsibility more so than your own, to provide your basic needs?

Now a couple of your premises: No, busiensses do not make their money from employees. they make it from selling a good or service. I know you labor folks like to pretend that business is so utterly dependant on labor, but the fact is the employee, employer relationship is a two way street. Obviously the worker needs and employer just as much the employer needs the worker. Without their employERS the employEES wouldn't be making anything either.

Your subsidie theory is on pretty thin ice too given all the assumptions involved. Carrying it out you assume I guess that if a living wage were paid that some part of your tax that pays for social programs would go away I guess and that maybe businesses would have to pay less unemployment tax. Is that where you're going with that?

 

[Bern80]

as long as they can keep reducing their tax rates thus redistributing that national debt to others, they'll be doing fine....imo

At this rate Obama will see to it that there is plenty of debt to spread around.

The rich have by far the bulk of the tax burden. That isn't debateable. What I want to know is how far you rich bashers want to go. Should they pay ALL of the tax burden? Should only middle and poor rates go down? Should rich tax rates always go up? it's a real head scratcher when the side of the aisle that constantly envokes equality and level playing fields and fairness complains that the 20% who provide 80% of the tax revenue is somehow not paying there fair share.

Here's an idea...the top 10% of our country own more wealth than the bottom 90%, how about they pay 90% of the taxes?

TYo which I again ask the question you conveniently avoided. Where is the fairness and equality in that? Give me a real objective intellectual raitionale why it is fair that people pay more simply because they have more.

 

[Care4all]

The funny part of this: The richest people are only as rich as the country, our country is in debt, so they are not really rich are they.

as long as they can keep reducing their tax rates thus redistributing that national debt to others, they'll be doing fine....imo

At this rate Obama will see to it that there is plenty of debt to spread around.

The rich have by far the bulk of the tax burden. That isn't debateable. What I want to know is how far you rich bashers want to go. Should they pay ALL of the tax burden? Should only middle and poor rates go down? Should rich tax rates always go up? it's a real head scratcher when the side of the aisle that constantly envokes equality and level playing fields and fairness complains that the 20% who provide 80% of the tax revenue is somehow not paying there fair share.

maybe by far the income tax burden Bern which is about a third of our yearly budget, but that is not the TAX BURDEN in total of this country, not even close. Income taxes collected only pay a third of our annual budget.

they were paying a 90% income tax rate at one time, how much lower do you want to reduce theirs while indirectly raising the rest's?

As editec has mentioned, the upper middle class to rich, are the ones really getting screwed on income taxes, not the very wealthiest....and i tend to agree with him...

 

[Againsheila]

At this rate Obama will see to it that there is plenty of debt to spread around.

The rich have by far the bulk of the tax burden. That isn't debateable. What I want to know is how far you rich bashers want to go. Should they pay ALL of the tax burden? Should only middle and poor rates go down? Should rich tax rates always go up? it's a real head scratcher when the side of the aisle that constantly envokes equality and level playing fields and fairness complains that the 20% who provide 80% of the tax revenue is somehow not paying there fair share.

Here's an idea...the top 10% of our country own more wealth than the bottom 90%, how about they pay 90% of the taxes?

TYo which I again ask the question you conveniently avoided. Where is the fairness and equality in that? Give me a real objective intellectual raitionale why it is fair that people pay more simply because they have more.

You apparently subscribe to the economic theory that has created the mess we are in today and the depression that we will not be out of for many years. Congratulations on being sooo wrong.

The gilded age led to the great depression, we have again a gilded age and again, we are in a depression. It's too bad some people can't learn from history.

I think it was Plato who said the richest man in the land should never make more than 7 times what the poorest person in the land makes. He was right.

 

[Bern80]

as long as they can keep reducing their tax rates thus redistributing that national debt to others, they'll be doing fine....imo

At this rate Obama will see to it that there is plenty of debt to spread around.

The rich have by far the bulk of the tax burden. That isn't debateable. What I want to know is how far you rich bashers want to go. Should they pay ALL of the tax burden? Should only middle and poor rates go down? Should rich tax rates always go up? it's a real head scratcher when the side of the aisle that constantly envokes equality and level playing fields and fairness complains that the 20% who provide 80% of the tax revenue is somehow not paying there fair share.

maybe by far the income tax burden Bern which is about a third of our yearly budget, but that is not the TAX BURDEN in total of this country, not even close. Income taxes collected only pay a third of our annual budget.

they were paying a 90% income tax rate at one time, how much lower do you want to reduce theirs while indirectly raising the rest's?

First I thought I was pretty clear in what I said. It isn't that I want the taxes of the rich to go way down. I'ts this crap that they don't pay enough that i problem with.

Secondly 'indrectly' is a key word. I assume you mean if there's goes down then somehow paying for all of governments crap is going to get spread around. So instead of just taking it as a given how about we also work on getting rid of some of the crap.

As editec has mentioned, the upper middle class to rich, are the ones really getting screwed on income taxes, not the very wealthiest....and i tend to agree with him...

Why is that? After 250k (or so I think) everyone pays the same percentage 37%ish I think. You want the ultra rich to go higher than that. Why should anyone, regardless, of their wealth have to pay half their income to the government? Especially when the only rationale I've heard so far is basically 'becasuse they can afford it'.

 

[Bern80]

You apparently subscribe to the economic theory that has created the mess we are in today and the depression that we will not be out of for many years. Congratulations on being sooo wrong.

The gilded age led to the great depression, we have again a gilded age and again, we are in a depression. It's too bad some people can't learn from history.

And what theory would that be so I can at least defend against yet another mischaracterization for the sake of convenience?

I think it was Plato who said the richest man in the land should never make more than 7 times what the poorest person in the land makes. He was right.

Okay, what's 0 x 7? Even by min wage standard that would less than a six figure income. For god's sake you people think about how some of the crap you think up would actually look like it practice and just maybe you'll begin to see how stupid you are. So you are not only in favor of a living wage, but a maximum wage as well correct? There are so many logistical questions to contend with I don't have nearly the space. but I know what i make a single living alone male. And I figure about $10/hr would be enough for someone to get by with the basic necessities. That's bot quite 21k a year gross. Times 7 is 146k a year. So in your fucked up utopia that's as good as it can get huh?

 

[Chris]

The funny part of this: The richest people are only as rich as the country, our country is in debt, so they are not really rich are they.

as long as they can keep reducing their tax rates thus redistributing that national debt to others, they'll be doing fine....imo

At this rate Obama will see to it that there is plenty of debt to spread around.

The rich have by far the bulk of the tax burden. That isn't debateable. What I want to know is how far you rich bashers want to go. Should they pay ALL of the tax burden? Should only middle and poor rates go down? Should rich tax rates always go up? it's a real head scratcher when the side of the aisle that constantly envokes equality and level playing fields and fairness complains that the 20% who provide 80% of the tax revenue is somehow not paying there fair share.

10% of Americans control 96% of the wealth.

90% of Americans control 4% of the wealth.

The rich aren't contributing their fair share.

If it was me, I would eliminate all taxes on investments, and I would tax people who have an income over $1,000,000 a year at a very high rate. That way investment is encouraged, and people who make the most money pay the most taxes.

 

[Bern80]

as long as they can keep reducing their tax rates thus redistributing that national debt to others, they'll be doing fine....imo

At this rate Obama will see to it that there is plenty of debt to spread around.

The rich have by far the bulk of the tax burden. That isn't debateable. What I want to know is how far you rich bashers want to go. Should they pay ALL of the tax burden? Should only middle and poor rates go down? Should rich tax rates always go up? it's a real head scratcher when the side of the aisle that constantly envokes equality and level playing fields and fairness complains that the 20% who provide 80% of the tax revenue is somehow not paying there fair share.

10% of Americans control 96% of the wealth.

90% of Americans control 4% of the wealth.

The rich aren't contributing their fair share.

If it was me, I would eliminate all taxes on investments, and I would tax people who have an income over $1,000,000 a year at a very high rate. That way investment is encouraged, and people who make the most money pay the most taxes.

Again I ask under what definition of fair does paying more simply because you have more fall?

Here is how 'fair' is defined in Chris' world (and I guess that of some others here). First fair does NOT refer to the actual distribution of the tax burden. 'Fair' (again someone will have to look up for me what definition of fair this is) is based on how much you have. Period. The more you have the more 'fair' it is that you pay more. Which of course completely disregards what the taxes are used for and who derives the benefit from them

And please explain to me what money there will be available to invest when you have taxed away most of the money of the people in the best position to make effective investments.

I swear I can not believe how completely retarded this country has become that it is occupied by the likes of the people contributing to this thread recently. You people will be the death of this country. Any of you seen Wall-E. The part with the big ship where people are baby sat through life so much that they barely require limbs to to accomplish anything. that's us if morons like yourself get your way. here's the short list of the crap that some of you think is such a great idea just in the last couple pages.

Every business must pay a living wage

No person may make more than 7 times the living wage.

The top 10% of wage earners must pay AT LEAST half of their earnings to the government.

UN-FUCKING BELIEVEABLE

 

[Gun Clingin']

as long as they can keep reducing their tax rates thus redistributing that national debt to others, they'll be doing fine....imo

At this rate Obama will see to it that there is plenty of debt to spread around.

The rich have by far the bulk of the tax burden. That isn't debateable. What I want to know is how far you rich bashers want to go. Should they pay ALL of the tax burden? Should only middle and poor rates go down? Should rich tax rates always go up? it's a real head scratcher when the side of the aisle that constantly envokes equality and level playing fields and fairness complains that the 20% who provide 80% of the tax revenue is somehow not paying there fair share.

10% of Americans control 96% of the wealth.

90% of Americans control 4% of the wealth.

The rich aren't contributing their fair share.

If it was me, I would eliminate all taxes on investments, and I would tax people who have an income over $1,000,000 a year at a very high rate. That way investment is encouraged, and people who make the most money pay the most taxes.

They have a name for people like you in the 'hood.
PLAYA HATA.

 

[Care4all]

Many of the rich are contributing more than their share, there is no question on that....but many get more than their share out of the fruit of the labor of this country than most as well.

For a while, this country believed that the middle class and below shouldn't be taxed on their income and only the wealthy should.

This was considered Fair then. But why?

For a While the wealthiest were taxed at a 90% tax rate on their upper income and the middle class and below were not taxed at all or very little.

This was considered Fair then. But why?

At one time, 75% of the taxes collected in this country were from Coporate Taxes, which paid for the country's budget spending.

This was considered fair then. But why?

What made these kind of taxes as fair back then and why the change in attitude now? Who lobbied for the changes and did they do so on the basis of it not being fair to them?

Borrowing money to pay the basic bills is allowing those that pay these higher taxes SKIRT a huge portion of their bill.

And hits those with the least the most with the devaluing of the dollar....by giving them even less purchasing power.

It's not that people hate the wealth that some of these people have, money is something we all would not mind having alot of, I would presume. It is those that scam the system in various ways, and who use their power and influence with congress to make things better and better for themselves, with no regard to what this may directly or indirectly do to their fellow countrymen.

that bothers me....and the only reason I can come up with for them doing this to us, is greed.....the root of all evil, "The Love of money".

the wealthiest are just letting us down...in many more ways than one.

I think you take this too personally Bern.... you will probably never ever be one of those 400 wealthiest....though i wish you the best and hope you are some day!

Care

 

[Gun Clingin']

Many of the rich are contributing more than their share, there is no question on that....but many get more than their share out of the fruit of the labor of this country than most as well.

For a while, this country believed that the middle class and below shouldn't be taxed on their income and only the wealthy should.

This was considered Fair then. But why?

For a While the wealthiest were taxed at a 90% tax rate on their upper income and the middle class and below were not taxed at all or very little.

This was considered Fair then. But why?

At one time, 75% of the taxes collected in this country were from Coporate Taxes, which paid for the country's budget spending.

This was considered fair then. But why?

What made these kind of taxes as fair back then and why the change in attitude now? Who lobbied for the changes and did they do so on the basis of it not being fair to them?

Borrowing money to pay the basic bills is allowing those that pay these higher taxes SKIRT a huge portion of their bill.

And hits those with the least the most with the devaluing of the dollar....by giving them even less purchasing power.

It's not that people hate the wealth that some of these people have, money is something we all would not mind having alot of, I would presume. It is those that scam the system in various ways, and who use their power and influence with congress to make things better and better for themselves, with no regard to what this may directly or indirectly do to their fellow countrymen.

that bothers me....and the only reason I can come up with for them doing this to us, is greed.....the root of all evil, "The Love of money".

the wealthiest are just letting us down...in many more ways than one.

I think you take this too personally Bern.... you will probably never ever be one of those 400 wealthiest....though i wish you the best and hope you are some day!

Care

Care..you make it hard to diss you. You sweety pie you. Will you marry me? I have cookies.

 

[Chris]

Many of the rich are contributing more than their share, there is no question on that....but many get more than their share out of the fruit of the labor of this country than most as well.

For a while, this country believed that the middle class and below shouldn't be taxed on their income and only the wealthy should.

This was considered Fair then. But why?

For a While the wealthiest were taxed at a 90% tax rate on their upper income and the middle class and below were not taxed at all or very little.

This was considered Fair then. But why?

At one time, 75% of the taxes collected in this country were from Coporate Taxes, which paid for the country's budget spending.

This was considered fair then. But why?

What made these kind of taxes as fair back then and why the change in attitude now? Who lobbied for the changes and did they do so on the basis of it not being fair to them?

Borrowing money to pay the basic bills is allowing those that pay these higher taxes SKIRT a huge portion of their bill.

And hits those with the least the most with the devaluing of the dollar....by giving them even less purchasing power.

It's not that people hate the wealth that some of these people have, money is something we all would not mind having alot of, I would presume. It is those that scam the system in various ways, and who use their power and influence with congress to make things better and better for themselves, with no regard to what this may directly or indirectly do to their fellow countrymen.

that bothers me....and the only reason I can come up with for them doing this to us, is greed.....the root of all evil, "The Love of money".

the wealthiest are just letting us down...in many more ways than one.

I think you take this too personally Bern.... you will probably never ever be one of those 400 wealthiest....though i wish you the best and hope you are some day!

Care

At one time the 26 top hedge fund managers were averaging $877 million dollars a year in income. They were running a Ponzi scheme that stole the life savings of hard working Americans. This is obscene.

No, the balance is off and must be shifted back to the people who's labor creates the wealth.

 

[Skull Pilot]

as long as they can keep reducing their tax rates thus redistributing that national debt to others, they'll be doing fine....imo

At this rate Obama will see to it that there is plenty of debt to spread around.

The rich have by far the bulk of the tax burden. That isn't debateable. What I want to know is how far you rich bashers want to go. Should they pay ALL of the tax burden? Should only middle and poor rates go down? Should rich tax rates always go up? it's a real head scratcher when the side of the aisle that constantly envokes equality and level playing fields and fairness complains that the 20% who provide 80% of the tax revenue is somehow not paying there fair share.

10% of Americans control 96% of the wealth.

90% of Americans control 4% of the wealth.

The rich aren't contributing their fair share.

If it was me, I would eliminate all taxes on investments, and I would tax people who have an income over $1,000,000 a year at a very high rate. That way investment is encouraged, and people who make the most money pay the most taxes.

people who make the most money do pay the most taxes.

how about all those people who pay no taxes pay their "fair share"

 

[Skull Pilot]

Many of the rich are contributing more than their share, there is no question on that....but many get more than their share out of the fruit of the labor of this country than most as well.

For a while, this country believed that the middle class and below shouldn't be taxed on their income and only the wealthy should.

This was considered Fair then. But why?

For a While the wealthiest were taxed at a 90% tax rate on their upper income and the middle class and below were not taxed at all or very little.

This was considered Fair then. But why?

At one time, 75% of the taxes collected in this country were from Coporate Taxes, which paid for the country's budget spending.

This was considered fair then. But why?

What made these kind of taxes as fair back then and why the change in attitude now? Who lobbied for the changes and did they do so on the basis of it not being fair to them?

Borrowing money to pay the basic bills is allowing those that pay these higher taxes SKIRT a huge portion of their bill.

And hits those with the least the most with the devaluing of the dollar....by giving them even less purchasing power.

It's not that people hate the wealth that some of these people have, money is something we all would not mind having alot of, I would presume. It is those that scam the system in various ways, and who use their power and influence with congress to make things better and better for themselves, with no regard to what this may directly or indirectly do to their fellow countrymen.

that bothers me....and the only reason I can come up with for them doing this to us, is greed.....the root of all evil, "The Love of money".

the wealthiest are just letting us down...in many more ways than one.

I think you take this too personally Bern.... you will probably never ever be one of those 400 wealthiest....though i wish you the best and hope you are some day!

Care

At one time the 26 top hedge fund managers were averaging $877 million dollars a year in income. They were running a Ponzi scheme that stole the life savings of hard working Americans. This is obscene.

No, the balance is off and must be shifted back to the people who's labor creates the wealth.

when one invests in a fund the risks are spelled out very clearly. have you ever read a prospectus?

and not every single hedge fund was poorly run. hedge funds just happen to be high on the risk meter and therefor tend to get hit hard in market downturns.

 

[KittenKoder]

At this rate Obama will see to it that there is plenty of debt to spread around.

The rich have by far the bulk of the tax burden. That isn't debateable. What I want to know is how far you rich bashers want to go. Should they pay ALL of the tax burden? Should only middle and poor rates go down? Should rich tax rates always go up? it's a real head scratcher when the side of the aisle that constantly envokes equality and level playing fields and fairness complains that the 20% who provide 80% of the tax revenue is somehow not paying there fair share.

10% of Americans control 96% of the wealth.

90% of Americans control 4% of the wealth.

The rich aren't contributing their fair share.

If it was me, I would eliminate all taxes on investments, and I would tax people who have an income over $1,000,000 a year at a very high rate. That way investment is encouraged, and people who make the most money pay the most taxes.

people who make the most money do pay the most taxes.

how about all those people who pay no taxes pay their "fair share"

Not by percentage of their income. Based on the percentage paid in taxes the poor are paying the most.

 

[Skull Pilot]

10% of Americans control 96% of the wealth.

90% of Americans control 4% of the wealth.

The rich aren't contributing their fair share.

If it was me, I would eliminate all taxes on investments, and I would tax people who have an income over $1,000,000 a year at a very high rate. That way investment is encouraged, and people who make the most money pay the most taxes.

people who make the most money do pay the most taxes.

how about all those people who pay no taxes pay their "fair share"

Not by percentage of their income. Based on the percentage paid in taxes the poor are paying the most.

the poor don't pay anything.

the bottom 40% of earners pay no income tax at all. while the top 1% pay 40% of all income tax collected.

 

[garyd]

First idiot the Guilded age did not cause the Great Depression as the so called guilded age ended some decades before with Teddy Rossevelt and the Beginning of WWI. It was the policies you idiots favor that made the Great Depression great. It was the excesses of the roaring twenties, the destruction of the liquor industry by the ill consider prohibition amendment and essentially non existent margins all combined with a trade war provoked by large scale tarrifs beginning in the the early twenties That started the Great Depression and Keynesian economics that prolonged it.

 

[KittenKoder]

people who make the most money do pay the most taxes.

how about all those people who pay no taxes pay their "fair share"

Not by percentage of their income. Based on the percentage paid in taxes the poor are paying the most.

the poor don't pay anything.

the bottom 40% of earners pay no income tax at all. while the top 1% pay 40% of all income tax collected.

Really ..

So then 20% of $400 a month may not be as much as 1% of 1,000,000 a month, but look at the percentage, 20% IS more than 1%. The poor are paying more of the money they work ten times harder for than the rich who are too lazy to wipe their own asses half the time and instead choose to run our country into the ground tricking poor people into spending fake money for the illusion of living decently.