Under Bush US's 400 richest doubled their wealth

[dilloduck]

Funny thing , when you make the prospective worker POOR with disastorous policies then you can pay them less.

Lets see,

The top 400 people in America had their incomes doubled by the Bush economy.

The mass majority are taking a massive financial hit.

Jobs are becoming scarce.


What will be the long term effect for the top 400?



The top 400 will be able to buy your labor at a much cheaper rate.



The top 400 will see there net worht rise even greater over the next few years.



I say we tax the shit out of them and get it back.

It was never yours in the first place.

 

[Truthmatters]

What was never mine?

 

[del]

No. We're making less so we are paying less in taxes. The rich are making more so they're paying more in taxes. So nice of them, huh?

Actually it is nice of them to pay a higher percentage than you so why don't you just say "Thank You" and stop whining.

No, you little bitch. How about we start making more and we'll be glad to share the tax burden.

How about we bring American jobs home? You know how I know you Redumblicans are wrong? Because you never talk about the real issues. We need high wage American jobs.

It is time to stop taking care of the Investor Class and start helping the middle class, stupid.

You know why Refucklicans know the stimulous won't work? Because unemployment continues to rise. So why don't they suggest bringing jobs back home? Because they like it they way things are going. Cheap American labor, cheap foreign labor, cheap housing, cheap stocks.

Wake up Del.

wake up yourself, bozo.
you're not responding to me.

 

[dilloduck]

What was never mine?

Do you ever read your own shit ?

I say we tax the shit out of them and get it back.

 

[del]

What was never mine?

Do you ever read your own shit ?

I say we tax the shit out of them and get it back.

would you?

 

[sealybobo]

Actually it is nice of them to pay a higher percentage than you so why don't you just say "Thank You" and stop whining.

No, you little bitch. How about we start making more and we'll be glad to share the tax burden.

How about we bring American jobs home? You know how I know you Redumblicans are wrong? Because you never talk about the real issues. We need high wage American jobs.

It is time to stop taking care of the Investor Class and start helping the middle class, stupid.

You know why Refucklicans know the stimulous won't work? Because unemployment continues to rise. So why don't they suggest bringing jobs back home? Because they like it they way things are going. Cheap American labor, cheap foreign labor, cheap housing, cheap stocks.

Wake up Del.

I'm not Del.

You really do live in a constant state of confusion don't you Boo Boo?

If I lined up 10 of your friends naked and you could only see their butt holes, would you be able to tell them apart?

PS. Yesterday I was watching this show about the NSA and it dawned on me. When the GOP talk about the American people, they aren't even referring to you and me.

Remember back when the founders were alive? They didn't want poor people voting.

So is it any wonder that today they still don't want us voting?

In the rich people's mind, we don't even matter. What do they call us, the Rabble?

So please don't expect the rich to work with us or for us to work with them. We try, because we want good wages for us and profits for them, but they don't give a shit about us. Some do, but the ones waaaaayyyyy up at the top, like the Federal Reserve Bankers, consider us scum.

And you defend them as if you were one of them.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Right.

When the wealthy start thinking the little people for making them rich to begin with we will.

this is what i don't understand.

people who trade their labor for dollars must believe that their remuneration is worth more than the hours of their time. Or else they would not be working for that particular employer.

If they do not believe their pay is worth more than their time, they are free to find an employer or another profession that will pay them.

Employers have to please their employees just as much if not more than employees have to please their employers.

If I make and sell pots for a living, I must ask a price for that pot that I believe is worth more than the materials and labor I put into making the pot. If i merely ask for what is equal to the materials and labor then i am no better off for having made the pot. Likewise the person who buys the pot must feel he is getting more than his payment for the pot or he would be no better off for having bought the pot.

It's is the same for those who sell their labor to an employer.

NO they don't...especially under tough times....

the employers can say "f it" and the employee would be foolish to quit, without another job in hand and with unemployment getting higher by the day.

my husband's corp told everyone, EVEN IF THEY MAKE THEIR GOALS in Sales and other parameters, they WILL NOT get a raise this year, nor a bonus.

Their competition laid off 7000 employees yesterday, so i guess he should consider himself lucky to have a job, at least so far...till his company makes the announcement of their layoffs which is of course, probably all on the Q T, which would be required until the official announcement!

But that does not invalidate my argument.

In your husband's case, the money he gets paid, the security of having a job, the fact that he can still work all are worth more to him than the hours he trades for his pay or he would be looking for a new job. even in this economy there are people who need laborers.

Tough times or good times it all balances out.

i have worked for years without a raise because, I thought that my particular situation with that particular employer, the flexibility and the pleasant work place etc were worth more than my hours.

Labor is a commodity employees sell to their employers. Like any commodity, sometimes there is more demand for it than others. right now we are at a low demand. but when times were good people went to employers and asked for raises and got them many times and many times they did not. But when demand is high for labor there are more options for laborers. And when I say laborers I am including professionals as well for they are still trading their hours for dollars.

where we are thinking wrong is when we believe that employees have no options.

now i know that since we are in a bad market for labor and that most people are thrilled just to be working. but that makes their jobs more not less valuable to them right now.

when the demand for labor goes up those jobs might well be less valuable to laborers and they will be able to look elsewhere.

 

[sealybobo]

Actually it is nice of them to pay a higher percentage than you so why don't you just say "Thank You" and stop whining.

No, you little bitch. How about we start making more and we'll be glad to share the tax burden.

How about we bring American jobs home? You know how I know you Redumblicans are wrong? Because you never talk about the real issues. We need high wage American jobs.

It is time to stop taking care of the Investor Class and start helping the middle class, stupid.

You know why Refucklicans know the stimulous won't work? Because unemployment continues to rise. So why don't they suggest bringing jobs back home? Because they like it they way things are going. Cheap American labor, cheap foreign labor, cheap housing, cheap stocks.

Wake up Del.

wake up yourself, bozo.
you're not responding to me.

So what part of the GOP's plan calls for high paying American jobs? Because if we continue to lose manufacturing and replace it with Walmart and Government jobs, we are doomed.

PS. Can you imagine how bad Bush's economy would be if he didn't grow the government exponentially? Things like NSA and Homeland Security? Can you imagine Del? Are you imagining?

Ok, so not only did they grow the government, also this:

Under the Bush Administration, the “shadow government” of private companies working under federal contract has exploded in size. Between 2000 and 2005, procurement spending increased by over $175 billion dollars, making federal contracts the fastest growing component of federal discretionary spending.

I'd rather have good paying manufacturing jobs back in America. They make a product and sell it to the "free market".

Who do defense contractors sell their guns to? Our government, Iran, Saudi Arabia, India, Pakistan, N. Korea, Columbia, etc...

So when I think of Bush's economy, I always want to call it socialism because it's all being fueled by tax payers dollars.

Wake up Del/Skull. You wouldn't know a free market if it sucked your dick.

 

[Skull Pilot]

No, you little bitch. How about we start making more and we'll be glad to share the tax burden.

How about we bring American jobs home? You know how I know you Redumblicans are wrong? Because you never talk about the real issues. We need high wage American jobs.

It is time to stop taking care of the Investor Class and start helping the middle class, stupid.

You know why Refucklicans know the stimulous won't work? Because unemployment continues to rise. So why don't they suggest bringing jobs back home? Because they like it they way things are going. Cheap American labor, cheap foreign labor, cheap housing, cheap stocks.

Wake up Del.

I'm not Del.

You really do live in a constant state of confusion don't you Boo Boo?

If I lined up 10 of your friends naked and you could only see their butt holes

so you are a homo, i thought so. I'm going to call you SealyButtPirate from now on

 

[Bern80]

Right.

When the wealthy start thinking the little people for making them rich to begin with we will.

....and the little people thanking the rich for taking the risk which allowed them to have a job. Show a little intellectual integrity please.

You are an ass bern and your twisted words show it.

There are no "little people" only pircks who gained wealth/power through deception that believe that they are better than others.

Editec used the word 'little people'. I simply stuck with the vocabulary he used. The employee/employer relationship is a two way street. The argument that the employee would not be where they are w/o their employer is just as valid as saying employer should thank the employee for making them money.

I would love for somene to directly address and directly defend some of the ridiculous positions they have made. I'll post the list again with the one you have added along with my question for, ah hell of lost count since you're too chicken shit to answer it. Just be aware the longer you go without answering the more you reveal the idiot that I know you to be.

WHY IS IT SOMEONE ELSE'S RESPONSIBILITY, MORE SO THAN YOUR OWN, TO PROVIDE FOR YOUR BASIC NEEDS?

Other themes:

All employers must pay a living wage.

No person may make more than 7 times this.

The rich should be taxed at least 50% of their income.

(and yours)

Those who attain wealth only do it through backstabbing and screwing their employees.

Is it the the harsh light of day that makes you peeople not want to respond to your own assertions, or what?

 

[American Horse]

I can understand all of that (mustang)

But if you think about it, that wouldn't be much different that what was determined Fair, with our progressive income tax structure....ya know?

True, and I for one accept a reasonable progressive INCOME Tax strucure. The FICA tax is not designed for the purpose of being an income tax, but an insurance policy dedicated to the individual payer.

And my second come back to what you said is a part, a very crucial part of the picture, which is not being discussed.

Each and every year for the past ....God knows how long, the Federal Government has included the Social Security payouts and taxes received in to the fiscal yearly budget.

This is true and it's how the politicians use the money paid in; by borrowing against it with US treasury bonds. Those represent the so-called "lock-box" we hear about, and seem to be a reasonable vehicle for the purpose. Those bonds are earning interest to keep their value current with inflation. Their use allows for spending, as we borrow from ourselves, without printing money but they do drive up interest rates because of demand for dollars.

And for the past 8 years we have been collecting much more in SS taxes than paying out in SS retirement Benefits....

Now, now... not just for the last 8-years. This has long been true, and is not a partisan issue and it is a spurrious effort to do so.

to the tune of $150 billion to $300 billion a year in SS surplus funds are being used to balance the budget. [we are balancint the budget by borrowing; how is that new] If we did not have these surplus funds in the National Budget to be used, then our income taxes would have to go up, or we would need to borrow more from China etc, to cover what our income taxes should have paid for....

So, essentially those paying SS up to the 100k who probably only pay 10% to 20% of our total income tax burden, are really paying for much much much more than that, because all of the SS surplus funds of theirs is being used for what the wealthiest should be paying, those that you all imply are paying 90% of our income taxes....

Not really, as I said above the money is being loaned, and will eventually have to be repaid when the demand comes due, and I am not among those who doubt that that will take place.

they might be paying that portion of the income taxes collected but that by NO MEANS, translates to them paying 90% of the country's total BILL/EXpenditures!!!

To the extent that inflation hurts the small income earner more than the high one, this is true. We should do as little as we can to distort the economy; To do that we need to be sure that people actually do pay according to tax rates, and not try to correct it with the Alternative Minimum Tax. there has to be a better way; maybe we need a new political party organised around this issue while the number of taxpayers is greater than the number of non taxpayers (or at least those who believe themselves to be taxpayers).

We are borrowing from China and the SS tax payers to pay the yearly bills.

That is so if we consider inflation to be a tax, and if so I agree with that, but the affects are different between the two: As an earner of modest income I'm sure that I benifit from the low cost of my consumer goods. I can buy a drill* made in china for the same dollars a lesser drill cost me 30 years ago. This is the case for a whole "basket" of items I need for my quality of life and ability to earn an income to supplement my SS check which does little more than pay mine and my spous's health and life insurance costs. The SS lockbox as Treasury bond conversion/budget enabler, as I said becomes an inflation/taxation issue.

This gives a huge advantage to the wealthiest who are claiming to be paying about 90% of the bill, to put off actually paying for what we actually spend.

Right now, we are paying $300 billion a year on the interest alone, of this debt....taking away funds that were used at one time for other things, like the military etc... I heard that in 10 years from all of this recent spending BEFORE Obama, that interest payment will be $450 billion A YEAR, let alone all of the deficit spending the obama admin is talking about adding with their stimulus....this does not even reduce the debt any, just the interest payment to other countries loaning it to us... pretty frightening to me...

Anyway...the working class, is paying more than you'd think on the bills of this country and not just the SS retirement benefit bills...but this is never really discussed.


care

I'm wearying a little bit here Care, so I will stipulate that all is that is true, but all of these things need to be looked at incrementally, and adjusted to try to apply costs and benifits to their true benificiaries. The best two examples that first come to mind ar the Federal/State gas tax paid at the pump, and the FICA. The perfect answer would supposedly be a "flat tax." That type tax could solve some problems if there were some efficient system of not taxing basic costs of living, like housing, medical care, energy, transportation, etc. The best thing that could come out of an effort like that would be that we could get a chance to throw out so much of the past, and modernize for the present.

IMHO You have a clear vision of the overall problem, as I hope do I. What's it going to take to get the politics out of the most important of issues? The goal should be to come up with a system that distorts the economy as little as possible. Thanks for the reasonable discussion.

Signed,


Mustang (thanks....I think)

*Edit:
1972 – Drill, 3/8 inch chuck, 2 speed, reversible $65.
2007 – Drill, 1/2 inch chuck, variable speed, reversible $20.
Current dollars, not adjusted for inflation

 

[RodISHI]

....and the little people thanking the rich for taking the risk which allowed them to have a job. Show a little intellectual integrity please.

You are an ass bern and your twisted words show it.

There are no "little people" only pircks who gained wealth/power through deception that believe that they are better than others.

Editec used the word 'little people'. I simply stuck with the vocabulary he used. The employee/employer relationship is a two way street. The argument that the employee would not be where they are w/o their employer is just as valid as saying employer should thank the employee for making them money.

I would love for somene to directly address and directly defend some of the ridiculous positions they have made. I'll post the list again with the one you have added along with my question for, ah hell of lost count since you're too chicken shit to answer it. Just be aware the longer you go without answering the more you reveal the idiot that I know you to be.

WHY IS IT SOMEONE ELSE'S RESPONSIBILITY, MORE SO THAN YOUR OWN, TO PROVIDE FOR YOUR BASIC NEEDS?

Other themes:

All employers must pay a living wage.

No person may make more than 7 times this.

The rich should be taxed at least 50% of their income.

(and yours)

Those who attain wealth only do it through backstabbing and screwing their employees.

Is it the the harsh light of day that makes you peeople not want to respond to your own assertions, or what?

I'll repeat to you what I said before. It is a society. In a society it takes everyone looking out for one another. Not just a few pricks who attempt to suck up all the wealth and use everyone else as slave labor to be used and abused. Or those who go along with that everyone else should be slave mentality to keep their cushy positions.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You are an ass bern and your twisted words show it.

There are no "little people" only pircks who gained wealth/power through deception that believe that they are better than others.

Editec used the word 'little people'. I simply stuck with the vocabulary he used. The employee/employer relationship is a two way street. The argument that the employee would not be where they are w/o their employer is just as valid as saying employer should thank the employee for making them money.

I would love for somene to directly address and directly defend some of the ridiculous positions they have made. I'll post the list again with the one you have added along with my question for, ah hell of lost count since you're too chicken shit to answer it. Just be aware the longer you go without answering the more you reveal the idiot that I know you to be.

WHY IS IT SOMEONE ELSE'S RESPONSIBILITY, MORE SO THAN YOUR OWN, TO PROVIDE FOR YOUR BASIC NEEDS?

Other themes:

All employers must pay a living wage.

No person may make more than 7 times this.

The rich should be taxed at least 50% of their income.

(and yours)

Those who attain wealth only do it through backstabbing and screwing their employees.

Is it the the harsh light of day that makes you peeople not want to respond to your own assertions, or what?

I'll repeat to you what I said before. It is a society. In a society it takes everyone looking out for one another. Not just a few pricks who attempt to suck up all the wealth and use everyone else as slave labor to be used and abused. Or those who go along with that everyone else should be slave mentality to keep their cushy positions.

I've worked some pretty shitty jobs and a lot of jobs i didn't want to work, but I never considered myself a slave.

you know why?

Because I could have quit any one of those jobs at any time.

 

[Bern80]

I'll repeat to you what I said before. It is a society. In a society it takes everyone looking out for one another. Not just a few pricks who attempt to suck up all the wealth and use everyone else as slave labor to be used and abused. Or those who go along with that everyone else should be slave mentality to keep their cushy positions.

That is not an answer to the question. The problem with your argument is first that you have a perception that every business owner is an employee backstabbing prick, which much as you keep repeating it, Im sure you know how ridiculous that is.

Secondly, I would agree to a very minimal extent that we depend on each other. Only in the sense that few of us could provide for all of our wants on our own. Just as we depend on each other we all bare a certain amount of personal responsibility to society in the form of not being a burden on it. In your world there is no personal responsibility. now you may say that you do believe in some personal responsibility, but the reality of your position is that it woudl amount to very little. In a world word your employer is required to pay for all of your basic needs the extent of your respsonsibiltiy is get a job, any job, that's it. that is the reality of your position accept. or if you are uncomfortably with it make a better argument or modify it.

So I ask again; why is it someone elses responsibility, more so than your own, to provide your basic needs? That shoudl either start with a 'because' or an explanation of why i mischaracterizing your position.

 

[Againsheila]

Editec used the word 'little people'. I simply stuck with the vocabulary he used. The employee/employer relationship is a two way street. The argument that the employee would not be where they are w/o their employer is just as valid as saying employer should thank the employee for making them money.

I would love for somene to directly address and directly defend some of the ridiculous positions they have made. I'll post the list again with the one you have added along with my question for, ah hell of lost count since you're too chicken shit to answer it. Just be aware the longer you go without answering the more you reveal the idiot that I know you to be.

WHY IS IT SOMEONE ELSE'S RESPONSIBILITY, MORE SO THAN YOUR OWN, TO PROVIDE FOR YOUR BASIC NEEDS?

Other themes:

All employers must pay a living wage.

No person may make more than 7 times this.

The rich should be taxed at least 50% of their income.

(and yours)

Those who attain wealth only do it through backstabbing and screwing their employees.

Is it the the harsh light of day that makes you peeople not want to respond to your own assertions, or what?

I'll repeat to you what I said before. It is a society. In a society it takes everyone looking out for one another. Not just a few pricks who attempt to suck up all the wealth and use everyone else as slave labor to be used and abused. Or those who go along with that everyone else should be slave mentality to keep their cushy positions.

I've worked some pretty shitty jobs and a lot of jobs i didn't want to work, but I never considered myself a slave.

you know why?

Because I could have quit any one of those jobs at any time.

Lucky you. When I worked for the fed government and they found out my husband was laid off, they started treating me like sh*t. I couldn't quit. I was 5 months pregnant, how would we make the house payments? Believe me, I wanted to and I was applying right and left for other jobs but the other government agencies kept saying "we hire from within" while the one I worked for I was told to my face "You're too good at your job, we can't replace you so we can't let you get a better job."

Fortunately my husband was rehired right before my son was born and I took off to have him and never went back. I swore that I would never work for the government again unless I had no other choice.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I'll repeat to you what I said before. It is a society. In a society it takes everyone looking out for one another. Not just a few pricks who attempt to suck up all the wealth and use everyone else as slave labor to be used and abused. Or those who go along with that everyone else should be slave mentality to keep their cushy positions.

I've worked some pretty shitty jobs and a lot of jobs i didn't want to work, but I never considered myself a slave.

you know why?

Because I could have quit any one of those jobs at any time.

Lucky you. When I worked for the fed government and they found out my husband was laid off, they started treating me like sh*t. I couldn't quit. I was 5 months pregnant, how would we make the house payments? Believe me, I wanted to and I was applying right and left for other jobs but the other government agencies kept saying "we hire from within" while the one I worked for I was told to my face "You're too good at your job, we can't replace you so we can't let you get a better job."

Fortunately my husband was rehired right before my son was born and I took off to have him and never went back. I swore that I would never work for the government again unless I had no other choice.

so you're telling me you exercised your choice to leave a job you didn't like when it was most expedient for you to do so.

that doesn't sound like being a slave to me. In fact it sounds like the very definition of freedom.

 

[RodISHI]

Bern you are saying things I have not said you are nothing more than a cheap liar that spews the same bs over and over. I have no need to post any response to you.

 

[Againsheila]

I've worked some pretty shitty jobs and a lot of jobs i didn't want to work, but I never considered myself a slave.

you know why?

Because I could have quit any one of those jobs at any time.

Lucky you. When I worked for the fed government and they found out my husband was laid off, they started treating me like sh*t. I couldn't quit. I was 5 months pregnant, how would we make the house payments? Believe me, I wanted to and I was applying right and left for other jobs but the other government agencies kept saying "we hire from within" while the one I worked for I was told to my face "You're too good at your job, we can't replace you so we can't let you get a better job."

Fortunately my husband was rehired right before my son was born and I took off to have him and never went back. I swore that I would never work for the government again unless I had no other choice.

so you're telling me you exercised your choice to leave a job you didn't like when it was most expedient for you to do so.

that doesn't sound like being a slave to me. In fact it sounds like the very definition of freedom.

No, freedom would have been being able to quit 3 months earlier when I was forced to get on my hands and knees while 5 months pregnant to do old files for an office I didn't even work for while my boss was gone and HIS boss took advantage of it.

Can you even imagine what it's like being 5 months pregnant, sitting on the floor doing filing that's 5 years old because my bosses boss didn't make his secretary do her job and the jag was coming?

Imagine if I'd gone into premature labor? I was in true pain, and tears....I had no other choice and they knew it. That's slavery. They never treated me like that until they found out my husband was unemployed.

Nope, people don't have freedom to just drop their jobs as you seem to think, not when they have responsibilities.

From your attitude, I can picture you using your employees the same way.

 

[RodISHI]

Editec used the word 'little people'. I simply stuck with the vocabulary he used. The employee/employer relationship is a two way street. The argument that the employee would not be where they are w/o their employer is just as valid as saying employer should thank the employee for making them money.

I would love for somene to directly address and directly defend some of the ridiculous positions they have made. I'll post the list again with the one you have added along with my question for, ah hell of lost count since you're too chicken shit to answer it. Just be aware the longer you go without answering the more you reveal the idiot that I know you to be.

WHY IS IT SOMEONE ELSE'S RESPONSIBILITY, MORE SO THAN YOUR OWN, TO PROVIDE FOR YOUR BASIC NEEDS?

Other themes:

All employers must pay a living wage.

No person may make more than 7 times this.

The rich should be taxed at least 50% of their income.

(and yours)

Those who attain wealth only do it through backstabbing and screwing their employees.

Is it the the harsh light of day that makes you peeople not want to respond to your own assertions, or what?

I'll repeat to you what I said before. It is a society. In a society it takes everyone looking out for one another. Not just a few pricks who attempt to suck up all the wealth and use everyone else as slave labor to be used and abused. Or those who go along with that everyone else should be slave mentality to keep their cushy positions.

I've worked some pretty shitty jobs and a lot of jobs i didn't want to work, but I never considered myself a slave.

you know why?

Because I could have quit any one of those jobs at any time.

Good for you.

I have quit a few jobs in my day also. That is exactly why when I went into business for myself and needed to hire people to work for me I paid them more than minimum wage.

Would you ask someone to do a job that you would not do?

Better yet, would you ask another to do a job for skimpy wages that you personally would not work for yourself?

 

[Alpha1]

Lucky you. When I worked for the fed government and they found out my husband was laid off, they started treating me like sh*t. I couldn't quit. I was 5 months pregnant, how would we make the house payments? Believe me, I wanted to and I was applying right and left for other jobs but the other government agencies kept saying "we hire from within" while the one I worked for I was told to my face "You're too good at your job, we can't replace you so we can't let you get a better job."

Fortunately my husband was rehired right before my son was born and I took off to have him and never went back. I swore that I would never work for the government again unless I had no other choice.

so you're telling me you exercised your choice to leave a job you didn't like when it was most expedient for you to do so.

that doesn't sound like being a slave to me. In fact it sounds like the very definition of freedom.

No, freedom would have been being able to quit 3 months earlier when I was forced to get on my hands and knees while 5 months pregnant to do old files for an office I didn't even work for while my boss was gone and HIS boss took advantage of it.

Can you even imagine what it's like being 5 months pregnant, sitting on the floor doing filing that's 5 years old because my bosses boss didn't make his secretary do her job and the jag was coming?

Imagine if I'd gone into premature labor? I was in true pain, and tears....I had no other choice and they knew it. That's slavery. They never treated me like that until they found out my husband was unemployed.

Nope, people don't have freedom to just drop their jobs as you seem to think, not when they have responsibilities.

From your attitude, I can picture you using your employees the same way.

You have a convoluted and distorted definition of what freedom means