Union Boss salaries- They have a lot in common with the people they represent

[The T]

The Left will get it right



this time.....

There has never been a government in the history of the world that has put the people's interests ahead of those who hold the power in government. Or in which government power has not cme at the expense of liberty and opportunity for the people.

Perhaps Capitalists only look to their own interests as well, but in so doing provide means for others to look to their interests.

And when Union Bosses are interested only in the enrichment and empowerment of the Union bosses, capitalism takes a back seat and eventually all will be less well off. Except of course for the Union Bosses and those in government who empower them. They can take the money and run.

A mirror image of Government itself?

 

[francoHFW]

A) Nobody's talking about getting rid of capitalists, moron dupes, just reasonable regulation.
B) The companies always had violence too, back in the day. Doesn't happen any more on the union side, dupes, only 7% of private sector is unionized is the result and workers are screwed, leads to low demand on product, duh...
C) Corps, rich Pub/A-holes Orgs had 30-50X as much money in politics as Unions/Dem orgs/Conservation etc BEFORE Citizens United (Campaign money, lobbyists)- God knows now...and they're NOT fighting for workers, nature, etc.
D)Union bosses have 20-30x more pay than workers- FAIR, 1950's level. But CEOs are in the 350x range- RIDICULOUS, unfair, destructive, sick, and many MUCH worse.. Only way to fight it is higher tax rates on them, SOON. And I don't want hear any disengenuous Pubcrappe about how hard they work LOL from DUPES/haters/MORONS.

 

[Gadawg73]

I have worked in industry for 50 years. Mostly for non-union companies. Those that actually paid more than the union shops.

However, I have seen many of those companies unionized. Why? New management that decided that, since the workers had no union, they could do whatever they wanted with benefits and wages. Without any consultation with the workers involved.

It has been my experiance that the greatest creator of union shops is management.

Bad management. I fully agree. Good point.
But management is not always a reflection of the capital that pays the freight of all the workers. The capital comes from the shareholders which in most instances are the middle class workers and investors.
Do away with incentives for investors to provide their capital, the investors, and the company is forced to close.
Or negotiate a wage for the workers that is 40% more than your competititon and guess what happens?
The market, not the union, should set the wage. If a man with the equivalent of a 5th grade education can do the work for $15 and hour and the union demands a "living wage" for that 5th grade education job at $25 an hour with wages and benefits how can a company not only stay in business but expand with investment dollars?

The places that I have worked at in the last 20 years would not hire someone with a fifth grade education. And even those with a high school education are expected to upgrade that education. The dumb jobs are done with machines now in most industries. The machine operators now do more than just pull levers and puch bottons. They are expected to ride watch on two to four computer screens, and several camera screens. If there is a problem, they are expected to bring up various screens on each of the computers that give them information and work with the millwrights, electricians, and automation on solving the problem.

In the crafts, one is expected to constantly upgrade their education. Most of the machinery and systems that I work with now did not exist when I started in industry. However, in real terms, the only way that I have increased my income is to simply move on when the company I worked for decided that wages need not keep up with prices, for whatever reason.

Wasn't talking about you and did not mean to insult you.
But your crafts job pays what the world wide market demands now, not what the union believes is a "fair wage".
Competition sets the wage, not what is best for someone.
Capitalism= The unequal and unfair distribution of wealth. Socialism is the equal distribution of misery.
Communal distribution of the wages set by the masses is not competititon.

 

[Gadawg73]

Who better to set the "reasonable regulation" than the consumer with their $$$?
Government regulation almost never regulates a damn thing other than what they want to regulate which 99% of the time is SELECTIVE.

 

[Foxfyre]

Or we just get rid of capitalists altogether..

The Captialist is a parasite who tries to convince you he's a vital organ.

And the private investigators who work for them are parasites on parasites.

Oh yeah. That worked so well for Lenin and Chairman Mao and every other country that did away with the capitalists. And it was by the efforts of organized labor that put such men into power resulting in loss of freedom for all, extreme hardship for everybody, and the deaths of tens of millions of innocent people.

Be careful what you wish for my friend.

Can you honestly say that Russia wasn't better off in 1945 than it was in 1917?

Can you honestly say that China isn't better off today than it was in 1947?

Besides the fact you repeat the poppycock of millions killed from Cold War Propaganda, I'm going to let you in on the dirty little secret of all economic systems.

They all sound just wonderful on paper.

And they all can be totally fucked up by human beings.

Now I'll admit, I engage in a bit of hyperbole out of frustation when talking to Toro and Gawdag the racist, because they want to credit Capitalism with all that is good and never give them any blame for the things the mess up.

I mean, shit, you can do that with China and the USSR, if you want to do that. They'd sound totally awesome if you never talk about the bad stuff.

Yes, I can honestly say that Russia is not better off than it was in 1917 or 1945 or that China is not better off than it was in 1947. Both have benefitted from the inventions and innovations and scientific progress that all peoples in the developed or developing world have enjoyed, but almost all of those inventions and innovations and scientific progress came out of the free capitalist world, not the oppressive leftists totalitarian world.

Can you honestly say that Russia and China would not be immensely better off if they had chosen the path taken by the USA over the last 100 years? To see some improvement for some as indication of a better system and use that to condemn the USA is not an intelligent use of either history or reason.

I know you didn't mean do away with all the capitalists, and I think it is good that you acknowledged that, but words do mean things. And to fail to see the downside of union corruption and counterproductive policy in order to promote unions as some kind of virtuous champion of the common man is also not an intelligent use of either history or reason.

 

[The T]

Oh yeah. That worked so well for Lenin and Chairman Mao and every other country that did away with the capitalists. And it was by the efforts of organized labor that put such men into power resulting in loss of freedom for all, extreme hardship for everybody, and the deaths of tens of millions of innocent people.

Be careful what you wish for my friend.

Can you honestly say that Russia wasn't better off in 1945 than it was in 1917?

Can you honestly say that China isn't better off today than it was in 1947?

Besides the fact you repeat the poppycock of millions killed from Cold War Propaganda, I'm going to let you in on the dirty little secret of all economic systems.

They all sound just wonderful on paper.

And they all can be totally fucked up by human beings.

Now I'll admit, I engage in a bit of hyperbole out of frustation when talking to Toro and Gawdag the racist, because they want to credit Capitalism with all that is good and never give them any blame for the things the mess up.

I mean, shit, you can do that with China and the USSR, if you want to do that. They'd sound totally awesome if you never talk about the bad stuff.

Yes, I can honestly say that Russia is not better off than it was in 1917 or 1945 or that China is not better off than it was in 1947. Both have benefitted from the inventions and innovations and scientific progress that all peoples in the developed or developing world have enjoyed, but almost all of those inventions and innovations and scientific progress came out of the free capitalist world, not the oppressive leftists totalitarian world.

Can you honestly say that Russia and China would not be immensely better off if they had chosen the path taken by the USA over the last 100 years? To see some improvement for some as indication of a better system and use that to condemn the USA is not an intelligent use of either history or reason.

I know you didn't mean do away with all the capitalists, and I think it is good that you acknowledged that, but words do mean things. And to fail to see the downside of union corruption and counterproductive policy in order to promote unions as some kind of virtuous champion of the common man is also not an intelligent use of either history or reason.

And the sad part is FOX?

Obama and the Statists wish to take US down the same path as Russia and China, and a failed EU...

What gives?

 

[francoHFW]

Fine, once the helpless laborers get a living wage ($10.77 = 1968's min wage) and everyone gets health care (cheaper in the long run than the Pub BS we have now). Obvious;y needs to be regulation to protect customers and te environment too...or, DISASTER, as we've seen.

 

[francoHFW]

"Obama and the Statists wish to take US down the same path as Russia and China, and a failed EU..."

Of course you're out of you brainwashed little mind...The EU was just fine until Greedy Pubs and their cronies blew up the financial world...idiot. And communism is a whole other story, totalitarianism, always imposed from without, or in horribly unfair monarchies//dictatorships. ALWAYS violently.

 

[Foxfyre]

Can you honestly say that Russia wasn't better off in 1945 than it was in 1917?

Can you honestly say that China isn't better off today than it was in 1947?

Besides the fact you repeat the poppycock of millions killed from Cold War Propaganda, I'm going to let you in on the dirty little secret of all economic systems.

They all sound just wonderful on paper.

And they all can be totally fucked up by human beings.

Now I'll admit, I engage in a bit of hyperbole out of frustation when talking to Toro and Gawdag the racist, because they want to credit Capitalism with all that is good and never give them any blame for the things the mess up.

I mean, shit, you can do that with China and the USSR, if you want to do that. They'd sound totally awesome if you never talk about the bad stuff.

Yes, I can honestly say that Russia is not better off than it was in 1917 or 1945 or that China is not better off than it was in 1947. Both have benefitted from the inventions and innovations and scientific progress that all peoples in the developed or developing world have enjoyed, but almost all of those inventions and innovations and scientific progress came out of the free capitalist world, not the oppressive leftists totalitarian world.

Can you honestly say that Russia and China would not be immensely better off if they had chosen the path taken by the USA over the last 100 years? To see some improvement for some as indication of a better system and use that to condemn the USA is not an intelligent use of either history or reason.

I know you didn't mean do away with all the capitalists, and I think it is good that you acknowledged that, but words do mean things. And to fail to see the downside of union corruption and counterproductive policy in order to promote unions as some kind of virtuous champion of the common man is also not an intelligent use of either history or reason.

And the sad part is FOX?

Obama and the Statists wish to take US down the same path as Russia and China, and a failed EU...

What gives?

What gives is the very thing our Founders warned us of. Once the government shifted from the protector and defender of liberty and unalienable rights to one that is the provider of what people are deemed to need, we began changing people's perception of government. And now we have 50% of Americans dependent in some way on a government check. An addictive dependency quickly develops and even as they rail against excessive government spending, they fight to protect the freebies that they get.

And as Arthur C. Brooks so eloquently explained in his most recent book, even the poor are happy when they earn what they have and have opportunity to improve their situation. But even when people have all that they need, if they did not earn it, it is in the human psyche that they become unhappy, anxious, dissastisfied. So they clamor for more. They clamor for a king to save them and provide them with all they want, not just what they need.

It is the very scenario that produced a Communist Russia and a Communist China and a Nazi German and a Fascist Italy etc. Once the government has the power to provide what the people demand in the short term, it has the power to do whatever it wants. And no government once it had such power has ever given it up voluntarily.

 

[The T]

Yes, I can honestly say that Russia is not better off than it was in 1917 or 1945 or that China is not better off than it was in 1947. Both have benefitted from the inventions and innovations and scientific progress that all peoples in the developed or developing world have enjoyed, but almost all of those inventions and innovations and scientific progress came out of the free capitalist world, not the oppressive leftists totalitarian world.

Can you honestly say that Russia and China would not be immensely better off if they had chosen the path taken by the USA over the last 100 years? To see some improvement for some as indication of a better system and use that to condemn the USA is not an intelligent use of either history or reason.

I know you didn't mean do away with all the capitalists, and I think it is good that you acknowledged that, but words do mean things. And to fail to see the downside of union corruption and counterproductive policy in order to promote unions as some kind of virtuous champion of the common man is also not an intelligent use of either history or reason.

And the sad part is FOX?

Obama and the Statists wish to take US down the same path as Russia and China, and a failed EU...

What gives?

What gives is the very thing our Founders warned us of. Once the government shifted from the protector and defender of liberty and unalienable rights to one that is the provider of what people are deemed to need, we began changing people's perception of government. And now we have 50% of Americans dependent in some way on a government check. An addictive dependency quickly develops and even as they rail against excessive government spending, they fight to protect the freebies that they get.

And as Arthur C. Brooks so eloquently explained in his most recent book, even the poor are happy when they earn what they have and have opportunity to improve their situation. But even when people have all that they need, if they did not earn it, it is in the human psyche that they become unhappy, anxious, dissastisfied. So they clamor for more. They clamor for a king to save them and provide them with all they want, not just what they need.

It is the very scenario that produced a Communist Russia and a Communist China and a Nazi German and a Fascist Italy etc. Once the government has the power to provide what the people demand in the short term, it has the power to do whatever it wants. And no government once it had such power has ever given it up voluntarily.

Sad...and I'm sure they're waiting for an excuse for the dominos to fall...all by thier doing. What a sad state of affairs we are in. Only recourse s a revamp of the Congress, and getting Obama OUT.

Pivotal part of history we are witnessing.

 

[francoHFW]

Fek greedy stupid Pubs who got EVERYONE in this mess, and their silly fear mongered dupes. Change the channel. Morons. this is a 30 year disaster- see sig.

 

[The T]

Fek greedy stupid Pubs who got EVERYONE in this mess, and their silly fear mongered dupes. Change the channel. Morons. this is a 30 year disaster- see sig.

'FEK' Franco? Does it mean something?

WIKI

Fek may refer to:

• Feck
• Fek, Nepal

[edit] See also

WHY do you babble?

 

[francoHFW]

Ok, FUCK you, shyttehead dupe Pubtroll! LOL

 

[Toro]

By your logic, anyone you'd hire would be a potential threat, because anyone would kill you if they thought you were endangering his family.

No, you've got the logic wrong. There's a difference between random violence and violence against being fired because you think something that is yours is being taken away from you. I won't hire someone whom I think might inflict violence on me and my family if I have to let them go. I view that person as unreasonable and unstable. Most people don't think it is OK to seek violent retribution against a business owner, let alone against his wife and kids, for letting them go, like you do. If they did, you would see many more examples of fired workers killing their bosses. Most Americans don't have your union mentality that the world owes them a living.

That's the problem, isn't it.

Maybe you should read up on the history of the union movement. That's EXACTLY what it did. And it needed to.

I have, dipshit. Most of the violence perpetrated by unions 80-90 years ago was because company owners used violence against them for wanting to organize. If companies were doing that today, I'd have more sympathy. But that's not happening today.

Of course, you take it to another level when you start targeting wives and kids, psycho.

 

[JoeB131]

Yes, I can honestly say that Russia is not better off than it was in 1917 or 1945 or that China is not better off than it was in 1947. Both have benefitted from the inventions and innovations and scientific progress that all peoples in the developed or developing world have enjoyed, but almost all of those inventions and innovations and scientific progress came out of the free capitalist world, not the oppressive leftists totalitarian world.

Can you honestly say that Russia and China would not be immensely better off if they had chosen the path taken by the USA over the last 100 years? To see some improvement for some as indication of a better system and use that to condemn the USA is not an intelligent use of either history or reason.

I know you didn't mean do away with all the capitalists, and I think it is good that you acknowledged that, but words do mean things. And to fail to see the downside of union corruption and counterproductive policy in order to promote unions as some kind of virtuous champion of the common man is also not an intelligent use of either history or reason.

I take the position that a country's system is usually what is best for that country.

Obviously, to not realize that Unions are what put an end to this kind of shit...

is to not recognize their contributions.

America became great because of the Labor Movement. That's why we have a holiday called "Labor Day".

We do not have one called "Bloodsucking Investor Day".

 

[JoeB131]

That's the problem, isn't it.

Maybe you should read up on the history of the union movement. That's EXACTLY what it did. And it needed to.

I have, dipshit. Most of the violence perpetrated by unions 80-90 years ago was because company owners used violence against them for wanting to organize. If companies were doing that today, I'd have more sympathy. But that's not happening today.

Of course, you take it to another level when you start targeting wives and kids, psycho.

So when a big corporation cuts off Sally's dad's health insurance, they arent' threatening Little Sally.

Or is that all okay because it was done with lawyers and shit.

Like I said, when the shit hits the fan, you will have no one to blame but yourself.

 

[Toro]

Or we just get rid of capitalists altogether..

The Captialist is a parasite who tries to convince you he's a vital organ.

And the private investigators who work for them are parasites on parasites.

Oh yeah. That worked so well for Lenin and Chairman Mao and every other country that did away with the capitalists. And it was by the efforts of organized labor that put such men into power resulting in loss of freedom for all, extreme hardship for everybody, and the deaths of tens of millions of innocent people.

Be careful what you wish for my friend.

Can you honestly say that Russia wasn't better off in 1945 than it was in 1917?

Can you honestly say that China isn't better off today than it was in 1947?

Besides the fact you repeat the poppycock of millions killed from Cold War Propaganda, I'm going to let you in on the dirty little secret of all economic systems.

They all sound just wonderful on paper.

And they all can be totally fucked up by human beings.

Now I'll admit, I engage in a bit of hyperbole out of frustation when talking to Toro and Gawdag the racist, because they want to credit Capitalism with all that is good and never give them any blame for the things the mess up.

I mean, shit, you can do that with China and the USSR, if you want to do that. They'd sound totally awesome if you never talk about the bad stuff.

Stop being retarded.

Your arguments are about as extreme left as it gets. "Capitalism is evil." "Investing is parasitic." "Hang outsourcing CEOs." "Let workers beat the business owners." "The 1% are the enemy." "Capitalism is treason." That's a "bit" of hyperbole? FFS, I literally could have lifted all that shit from naive college Marxist "collectives" flyers.

Gadawg and I are both moderates. The fact that you think that we ascribe all that is good to capitalism and nothing that is bad just reinforces your place on the extreme left of the political spectrum, no matter how much you bleat on about being a Republican.

 

[Toro]

That's the problem, isn't it.

Maybe you should read up on the history of the union movement. That's EXACTLY what it did. And it needed to.

I have, dipshit. Most of the violence perpetrated by unions 80-90 years ago was because company owners used violence against them for wanting to organize. If companies were doing that today, I'd have more sympathy. But that's not happening today.

Of course, you take it to another level when you start targeting wives and kids, psycho.

So when a big corporation cuts off Sally's dad's health insurance, they arent' threatening Little Sally.

Or is that all okay because it was done with lawyers and shit.

Like I said, when the shit hits the fan, you will have no one to blame but yourself.

No. It's your union "the-world-owes-me-a-living-that-it-justifies-anything" mentality that has put you in the shitter. You have no one to blame but yourself.

 

[JoeB131]

Stop being retarded.

Your arguments are about as extreme left as it gets. "Capitalism is evil." "Investing is parasitic." "Hang outsourcing CEOs." "Let workers beat the business owners." "The 1% are the enemy." "Capitalism is treason." That's a "bit" of hyperbole? FFS, I literally could have lifted all that shit from naive college Marxist "collectives" flyers.

Gadawg and I are both moderates. The fact that you think that we ascribe all that is good to capitalism and nothing that is bad just reinforces your place on the extreme left of the political spectrum, no matter how much you bleat on about being a Republican.

Not at all.

The only thing you are is someone playing working folks for fools... but as a truly great Republican said, "You can't fool all the people all the time."

He also said, " Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."

Fucking Marxist... Bet he never made a fortune cheating Granny out of her house or taking pictures of strikers...

Besides, you guys are the biggest socialists out there. When you fuck it up, you go whining to the government for bailouts...

 

[JoeB131]

No. It's your union "the-world-owes-me-a-living-that-it-justifies-anything" mentality that has put you in the shitter. You have no one to blame but yourself.

Union guys going out and doing their jobs didn't fuck up the system.

It was assholes on Wall Street manipulating the housing market and banking system.

That's why we are in the shitter, guy.

And unfortunately becasue you parasites have been shipping OUR jobs to the ButcherShop In Beijing, we can't even do what we've done all the other times you fucked it up, work our way building wealth back.