Zone1 Upon this rock I will build my church

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[BreezeWood]

their church they died for, liberation theology, self determination has never seen the lite of day -

mathew, the crucifier and those others that wrote the c-bible live in turmoil till their crimes are brought to justice.

 

[JohnDB]

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This section of scripture is better understood in complete context with Location, anthropology, and history understood and known along side.

Then all the nuances become clear.

It's a very odd lesson....and by that i mean put together in an odd fashion by Matthew and Jesus. Definitely outside the normal manner...which was of no small surprise to me when I figured it out.

Oh, I know the Catholic line of meaning...but then they do have an age to grind. When someone says a scripture is "All about me" and it isn't in a negative context....yeah I tend to disbelieve.
So....
Do you understand the context of "the Gates"?
What's written above the gates?
How come the gates were mentioned?
Does the River Styx have anything to do with this passage? How about the Tetriarch Phillip?
What was the first question asked by Jesus?
What was Peter's answer? Why were the people saying those things?
Considering that when this lesson took place it was Peter's third year of being a disciple....why is it shocking or unique or a new lesson at all?

 

[Meriweather]

It's a very odd lesson

I don't find it so odd. Jesus is asking, "Who do you say that I am?" Peter answered, "You are the messiah, the Son of the living God." Peter was the first to both recognize and voice who Jesus is...the first rock in the assembly who would come to know and accept the truth that Jesus is the son of God.

To Peter were given the keys (the duties and the responsibilities) to what would be right within the assembly of Christ and what would be wrong.

Hades (Sheol) is the place of the departed spirits/souls. It is a place of containment. The Gates of Hades/Sheol could not contain/prevail against Jesus after his death, and nor will they prevail against the Assembly Jesus founded. God is our rock and our salvation. Jesus is our rock--the rock that was rejected that became the cornerstone. Peter was rock, the rock who first identified Jesus and his purpose. This revelation, to Peter, came from God (our rock and our salvation) about the rock (who is our cornerstone), making Peter the first of many rocks which is Christianity. We, too, are rocks.

For any Christian to declare any one of us--from Pope to the newly baptized--is not a rock is to insult all, including God who is our rock and our salvation.

 

[JohnDB]

I don't find it so odd. Jesus is asking, "Who do you say that I am?" Peter answered, "You are the messiah, the Son of the living God." Peter was the first to both recognize and voice who Jesus is...the first rock in the assembly who would come to know and accept the truth that Jesus is the son of God.

To Peter were given the keys (the duties and the responsibilities) to what would be right within the assembly of Christ and what would be wrong.

Hades (Sheol) is the place of the departed spirits/souls. It is a place of containment. The Gates of Hades/Sheol could not contain/prevail against Jesus after his death, and nor will they prevail against the Assembly Jesus founded. God is our rock and our salvation. Jesus is our rock--the rock that was rejected that became the cornerstone. Peter was rock, the rock who first identified Jesus and his purpose. This revelation, to Peter, came from God (our rock and our salvation) about the rock (who is our cornerstone), making Peter the first of many rocks which is Christianity. We, too, are rocks.

For any Christian to declare any one of us--from Pope to the newly baptized--is not a rock is to insult all, including God who is our rock and our salvation.

Tell you what....look at the history of the location...the anthropology of that era...and the critical point of that this was after Peter had been a disciple/Apostle for three years already....meaning Peter's "Confession" had been a foregone conclusion for at least 2½ years at this point already.

Which then becomes a question as to why Matthew thought it so much more important than other stories to tell...why spend the money on paper and ink to tell this story when it was a foregone conclusion way before this in the timeliness.

 

[Meriweather]

Tell you what....look at the history of the location...the anthropology of that era...

I have. If you have something additional to add, I will be happy to read it, but I am not interested in pulling it out of you bit by bit.

 

[JohnDB]

I have. If you have something additional to add, I will be happy to read it, but I am not interested in pulling it out of you bit by bit.

I'm not willing to give it...
YOU need to do the research...I've given you plenty of questions that need answers for fully understanding this passage beyond the trite "church answer" that explains nothing.

It's not difficult....but you need to step away from the typical dogma and actually look for the answers. (Notice I'm not trying to ensnare you into any particular denomination? ) There's a beautiful lesson here if you are willing. Up to you.

 

[Meriweather]

YOU need to do the research

I have done the research, and having done the research for years I presented what adds up best for me. In orther words, I may know exactly what you are thinking of, and I rejected it. If you wish to say more why you support one of the different versions, I would be happy to listen. Otherwise....let's both move on.

 

[Clyde 154]

The Rock that Jesus was referencing was the truth spoken by Peter.......its the foundation to the kingdom given to Jesus Christ by the Father.........TRUTH. When Jesus said to them (the disciples Jesus was speaking to), "But who do you say that I (Jesus) am?"....Peter answered and said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' Jesus answered and said to him (Peter), "Blessed are you Simon Bar-Jonah (the son of Jonah), for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you. but My Father, who is in heaven. And I will say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock (the rock recorded in Greek means a stone....not a personal name...but a thing, that thing being TRUTH) I will build MY CHURCH (not the church of Peter, not the universal church....but the church given to Jesus by the Father.....the church that belongs to Christ Jesus as the head of the church/kingdom), and the gates of Hades (not hell but Hades....the spiritual realm where the spirits of the dead go to await judgment (Luke 16)......Shall not prevail against it." -- Matthew 16:15-18. Jesus is declaring that His kingdom/church will defeat DEATH.

Jesus' mission to earth as stated by Him was to deliver TRUTH from heaven that can save the souls of men.........it was not to save the flesh, feed the poor (the poor you will have among you always -- John 6:26-27, John 12:8

Jesus describes why He was born "For this purpose was I born, and for this purpose have I come into the world, to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth, listens to My Voice." -- John 18:37

 

[seaofnails]

.
" Petros " is a shifting, rolling, or insecure stone - pieces of a rock - pebbles a small stone or small rock

" Petros " is simply another word for - pieces of grit - small nugget or pieces of gravel or pellets

this is the meaning of the name of Peter in the Bible - Peter literally means - a piece of a rock - a pebble a small stone or small rock as in small nugget or piece of gravel = as smaller pieces of a large rock


" Petra " is a boulder or a huge mass of rock as - a solid, immovable massive rock.

these two words are not interchangeable in the scriptures - Peter is never called " Petra " - and Petra is never called Peter.

there is no way for Catholics to support the supremacy of the Pope as ordained by Jesus other than relying upon tradition alone.


in fact Peter is not addressing Roman Catholic Priests or Popes nor addressing Rome in 1Pe 1: 1 - 5

1Pe 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

:5 You also, as living stones, - are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Anointing.

the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, are as living stones, - whom are building up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices,

 

[onefour1]

The rock that the church is built upon is the rock of revelation. Upon those who receive the testimony of truth that Jesus is the Christ just as Peter did, are built upon a sure foundation of which the gates of hell shall not prevail against. They might hunt those who have this testimony and kill them in all manner of evil ways, but they can never close the source of revelation and it will continue to be poured out upon the heads of those who humble themselves and seek after God and our Lord Jesus Christ.