Uprising in Egypt Splitting the Conservatives in the US

I didn't say all, just overwhelming majority. The "anti-war" crowd was nowhere to be found when the warmongering in Afghanistan skyrocketed and the villagers were driving truckloads of civilian bodies to the us posts.

The war in Afghanistan had overwhelming support when it started. Who opposed it at the outset and then switched when Bush left office?

In 2001 it had overwhelming support when we wanted to teach Osama Bin Laden and those responsible a lesson. Even the leader of the Taliban Mullah Mohammed Omar had no idea of the plans for 9/11 or what Osama was doing behind the scenes. Yes he shouldn't have protected him all along, but it's clear to me that the purpose of the war in 2001 was FAR different than the purpose of the war in 2009 and beyond.

Those responsible for 9/11 were either long gone from Afghanistan or dead in 2009, so it's been a pointless war for quite awhile and yet the "anti-war" crowd is still nowhere to be found. Again because they weren't anti-war, they were democrats posing as such.
The "anti-war crowd" is easy to find, but that doesn't mean the corporate press pays it the slightest attention.

March 19th is the next date when thousands of Americans will take to the streets to oppose the mass murder in Afghanistan and the corporate profits it generates.

Don't expect much coverage in the capitalist press.

ANSWER Coalition

"Stop U.S. Funding of the Mubarak Dictatorship!

March on the White House
Saturday, Feb. 5
Gather at 12noon
at the Egyptian Embassy
3521 International Court NW
(off Van Ness btw Connecticut and Reno)
For information: 202-265-1948

"The Egyptian people rising up for liberation are being brutally attacked by thugs and police sent by the U.S.-funded Mubarak regime.

"Messages are coming from protestors under siege in Tahrir Square in Cairo calling on the people of the United States to tell the Obama Administration to end support for Mubarak NOW!

Saudi Arabia Next?
 
In 2001 it had overwhelming support when we wanted to teach Osama Bin Laden and those responsible a lesson. Even the leader of the Taliban Mullah Mohammed Omar had no idea of the plans for 9/11 or what Osama was doing behind the scenes. Yes he shouldn't have protected him all along, but it's clear to me that the purpose of the war in 2001 was FAR different than the purpose of the war in 2009 and beyond.

Those responsible for 9/11 were either long gone from Afghanistan or dead in 2009, so it's been a pointless war for quite awhile and yet the "anti-war" crowd is still nowhere to be found. Again because they weren't anti-war, they were democrats posing as such.

They weren't anti war. They were anti anything that Bush did.

That is why we are continually hearing "Bush did the same thing" everytime an Obama hypocrisy is pointed out..

What they dont realize is....Bush never said he would do differently. Obama ran on a platform of promising to do differently.

Obama pledged during the campaign to begin withdrawing troops from Iraq within 16 months of taking office. The actual drawdown date was 19 months. So he was three months off.

He pledged to send two additional combat brigades to Afghanistan to fight the insurgency there. He sent about 4 times that amount.

The committed anti-war crowd knew from the start that Obama was not going to end either war immediately - he said as much in his own platform.

The committed Bush crowd knew from the start that they would oppose whatever Obama did, for the sake of opposition.

Thanks for helping to expose Obama as the true Bush-type warmonger that he is, more people need to be aware of this.
 
For the same reasons we stepped into Bosnia.


Martin Niemoller - “In Germany they first came for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me—and by that time no one was left to speak up.”
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Consider it addressed.

Haven't we allowed a holocaust in Sudan? Darfur?

What's the difference?

The Darfur region IS in Sudan
. And if we needed to stick our dicks in anything .....:eusa_whistle:

Yes. Thank you, Gunny. :lol:

I was pinpointing just where in Sudan, in case PoliticalChic feigned ignorance of any holocausts in that region.
 
I don't wish to be responsible for a nice fella like you having a breakdown, and understand that our back and forth posts have plumbed the depths of your ability to understand that there is no alternative to oil....so let's leave it at your wishing for a better reality than that which exists.

This is why the best outcome for this nation and the world will be a change in the parties that govern...you know, let the adults back in.
Carry on.

That is patently false. There are plenty of alternatives for oil. You stomping your feet on it doesn't make it so.

No one is saying that we have to completely get off oil. All the cars on the road will still need it for a long time. But power grids/electricity/long haul commerce, etc can all be done with alternative energy. And by doing that, the demand for oil goes down, and the price for oil goes down.

It's going to happen. The only question is whether we develop the technology or if we just buy the technology from China, Japan, or Korea, or Germany, or France, or Sweden, or any of the other nations who are actively developing this. I prefer inventions and copyrights to belong to U.S. companies, but that's me.

Little fella, I get such a kick out of anti-intellectuals who gaze at factual notes and quotes and come back with the cliched and sophomoric "That is patently false."

It's telling that you resort to insults in the face of any opposition to your point of view.

Can you discuss an issue like an adult?

And to pretend that there is any "stomping your feet" going on is not quite as disciplined as providing support for your (infantile) perspective, such as data showing how:

alternative energy is displacing fossil fuels,

"Showing how" implies that it is being done, when my argument is that it needs to be done, and will be done.

or how free market investments- the litmus test of success- is becoming more of an impetus than government subsidies and crony capitalism,

Have I argued this?

and the value of green jobs in solving the unemployment crisis.

I don't believe I've argued this, either. Just the wisdom of getting off oil ASAP, as the price will continue to rise, forever, due to millions more cars on the road in emerging markets, plus the red-hot growth in China, and to a lesser extent, India. And the inevitable spikes in oil whenever someone in the Middle East gets a hangnail.

But Green jobs will be a positive and a benefit to doing what we need to do, anyway.

If you can see how these concrete steps prove more efficacious in advancing your side of the dabate, then there may be hope for you... educationally.

Politically? A lost cause.

But...that doesn't make you a bad person, ....or does it.....?

Sorry, sweetie, but I've already made factual, unassailable points which you have run away from, substituting insults for coherent, pointed answers.
 
For the same reasons we stepped into Bosnia.


Martin Niemoller - “In Germany they first came for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me—and by that time no one was left to speak up.”
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Consider it addressed.

Haven't we allowed a holocaust in Sudan? Darfur?

What's the difference?

I need you to be clear here: is your point if we don't involve ourselves in every evil, we must not involve ourselves in any?

Or, was your post merely the equivalent of flailing around looking for a reponse?

My point was to answer your insistence that:

American cannot allow there to be a holocaust in Israel.

You haven't explained why, besides offering a trite poem. If there was to be the start of a holocaust in Israel, would it be a proper response to say "We involved ourselves in Bosnia - we cannot be involved in every evil".

???

When you can explain why it would be America's burden to not "allow" there to be a holocaust in Israel, please be brave enough to put it into a post.
 
Yep the Shah did not care much for his people from the way he treated them.
Of course he was the spoiled playboy type son of the ex leader of Iran, a Hitler collabarator.

Kinda reminds me of the bush clan in a way :)

"When the Iranian revolution came to power, with the help of Democratic President Jimmy Carter, the Ayatollah Khomeini killed more human beings (about twenty thousand) in two weeks than had been killed by the Shah during his entire thirty-eight years. Khomeini followed this by sending hundreds of thousands of Iranians to die in the Iran-Iraq war, as martyrdom was needed to resurrect the Islamic Empire."
Paul Berman, “Terror and Liberalism,” p. 108

It was a sad thing to watch at the time. It would be nice if we could support positive change and the establishment of Justice without the Killing. How many times are we going to overlook that or just sweep it under the rug. How else can we effectively aid in the establishment of Justice? Why not contribute to the higher Nature and reason, rather than incite?

After the Japanese surrendered, MacArthur actually made them change their religion...

"As part of the surrender agreement, the allies allowed Hirohito keep his throne but required him to renounce his semidivine status. In January 1st, 1946, Hirohito publicly denounced "the notion that the emperor is a living god" and rejected the idea that "the Japanese are a superior to other races destined accordingly to rule the world."
EMPEROR HIROHITO - Japan | Facts and Details


"...Ann Coulter, who wrote in a syndicated column on September 12 that in responding to terrorists "we should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity."
"The wisdom of Ann Coulter"


Recall the Protestant Reformation?
 
The war in Afghanistan had overwhelming support when it started. Who opposed it at the outset and then switched when Bush left office?

The people who realized that you needlessly put the lives of our soldiers in danger when the commander in chief has no desire to win.

If you aren't going to find to win, there really is no point to fighting there. Obama mad it clear from the beginning that he wasnt concerned about winning in Afghanistan. What then is the point of risking any more American lives?

That doesn't have anything to do with my post, but anyhow...

...what was Bush doing that Obama hasn't been/isn't doing in Afghanistan that makes you claim that Bush was concerned with winning and Obama isn't?
 
I do love how the Rightwing propaganda machine is running helter skelter on this,

trying to find a coherent anti-liberal, anti-Obama line to settle in on.
 
Store food and prepare for the coming global insurrection: That's the warning Glenn Beck issued Monday. The Muslim Brotherhood and American radicals, he informed us, are operating in tandem to bring about "the destruction of the Western world." On his Fox show, Beck presented a clip of Mohamed ElBaradei calling for a "New Egypt that is democratic, that is based on social justice." The phrase "social justice" flashed on the screen, because in Beck's world, it's a code word for a totalitarian leftist agenda, just as the Egyptian protesters' use of the phrase "day of rage" signals their kinship with Bill Ayers of the Weather Underground. "We've shown you tonight that Hamas, Code Pink"—the feminist anti-war group—"and the Muslim Brotherhood are all linked together." With the future bleak, Beck called on his viewers to pray for "our way of life" and for Israel.


Glenn Beck's Egypt Freakout: How the Uprising Splits U.S. Conservatives - The Daily Beast
Glenn Beck needs to take a long hard look at the kind of "social justice" the pro Mubarak "supporters" (aka hired thugs, plain clothes police) are providing out on the streets to allow one, old, discredited dictator to cling to power.

Even ths US State Department has concluded that this is all nothing more than a government coordinated effort to intimidate the Egyptian people and the foreign press - including assaulting FOXNEWS own reporters.

Let Beck put his consersative theories to the test by replacing his collegues and attempt to "dialogue" with the pro-Mubarak supporters out on the streets of Cairo - and see how long he lasts!

Footnote: Extreme fundamentalists, like the Muslim Brotherhood, are no more interested in "social justice" than the current Mubarak regime. Mubarak and the Muslim Brotherhood have far more in common than with the average protester.

Even John McCain supports Obama's handling of the situation.
 
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I wonder what the world is gonna look like without Israel in it.

There are a lot of people who would love to find out -and they don't all live in the Middle East. Anti-semitism in Europe hasn't been this high since right before WWll. But then cyclical bloody violence against Jews is an ingrained part of Europe's history anyway -one they apparently have no intention of ridding themselves of either. Even if Islamofascist extremists with the assistance of Jew-hating Europe manage to slaughter all the Jews next time around, who will they blame when they are still the very same suck ass losers at life?
 
Haven't we allowed a holocaust in Sudan? Darfur?

What's the difference?

I need you to be clear here: is your point if we don't involve ourselves in every evil, we must not involve ourselves in any?

Or, was your post merely the equivalent of flailing around looking for a reponse?

My point was to answer your insistence that:

American cannot allow there to be a holocaust in Israel.

You haven't explained why, besides offering a trite poem. If there was to be the start of a holocaust in Israel, would it be a proper response to say "We involved ourselves in Bosnia - we cannot be involved in every evil".

???

When you can explain why it would be America's burden to not "allow" there to be a holocaust in Israel, please be brave enough to put it into a post.

"...trite poem."

"First they came…" is a famous statement attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group. The text of the quotation is usually presented roughly as follows:

First They came... - Pastor Martin Niemoller

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
First they came? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"...trite poem."

Many times expedience and the constraints of time and space direct us to use a kind of cultural shorthand, a word or phrase- or a poem, an iconic quote, whose meaning and significance everyone understands.

At least when one assumes a level of humanity and education, it is expected that every such person understands.

Then there is you.

The jaw-dropping level of ignorance, of intellectual isolation that you evice in critquing the Niemöller work as 'some trite poem' is astounding, both because you show that you don't understand it, its significance, and that you admit your befuddlement.

"...trite poem."

It means we stand up for our fellow man, for humanity.

The saving grace here is that you are clearly a message-board mannequin, and as such, serve as a reason to post correct information to counter the jujune and empty missives of yours.

You picked the wrong name. Troglodyte would be more appropriate.
 
I wonder what the world is gonna look like without Israel in it.

There are a lot of people who would love to find out -and they don't all live in the Middle East. Anti-semitism in Europe hasn't been this high since right before WWll. But then cyclical bloody violence against Jews is an ingrained part of Europe's history anyway -one they apparently have no intention of ridding themselves of either. Even if Islamofascist extremists with the assistance of Jew-hating Europe manage to slaughter all the Jews next time around, who will they blame when they are still the very same suck ass losers at life?

In this country, we can begin looking for the cause at the center of leftist ideologies, the universities.

“Harvard University has sold millions of dollars in shares in Israeli companies, a move that it insists is purely financial but which has already been claimed by a pro-Palestinian group as a victory in its boycott and divestment campaign against Israel.
Groups sympathetic to the Palestinians have been pressing universities in the US, the UK and elsewhere to end investment in Israel and to boycott Israeli academics.

Students and staff at the university pushed for divestment from Israel in 2002 but their campaign was swamped by an one opposed to the action. Pro-Palestinian groups claimed Harvard was responding now to the bad publicity that has plagued Israel since its attacks on Gaza and on the international flotilla bringing aid to the Palestinians in May.
The idea of boycotts and divestment against Israel was inspired by a similar strategy that some credit with bringing an end to apartheid in South Africa. US churches, students, academics, and others took a lead in that campaign.

Although students and academics on campuses across the US have intermittently organised campaigns against Israel, so far they have recorded no successes.”
Harvard insists Israeli shares sale not driven by boycott | World news | The Guardian
 
I need you to be clear here: is your point if we don't involve ourselves in every evil, we must not involve ourselves in any?

Or, was your post merely the equivalent of flailing around looking for a reponse?

My point was to answer your insistence that:
American cannot allow there to be a holocaust in Israel.

You haven't explained why, besides offering a trite poem. If there was to be the start of a holocaust in Israel, would it be a proper response to say "We involved ourselves in Bosnia - we cannot be involved in every evil".

???

When you can explain why it would be America's burden to not "allow" there to be a holocaust in Israel, please be brave enough to put it into a post.

"...trite poem."

"First they came…" is a famous statement attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group. The text of the quotation is usually presented roughly as follows:

First They came... - Pastor Martin Niemoller

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
First they came? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"...trite poem."

Many times expedience and the constraints of time and space direct us to use a kind of cultural shorthand, a word or phrase- or a poem, an iconic quote, whose meaning and significance everyone understands.

At least when one assumes a level of humanity and education, it is expected that every such person understands.

Then there is you.

The jaw-dropping level of ignorance, of intellectual isolation that you evice in critquing the Niemöller work as 'some trite poem' is astounding, both because you show that you don't understand it, its significance, and that you admit your befuddlement.

"...trite poem."

It means we stand up for our fellow man, for humanity.

The saving grace here is that you are clearly a message-board mannequin, and as such, serve as a reason to post correct information to counter the jujune and empty missives of yours.

You picked the wrong name. Troglodyte would be more appropriate.

In your ham-hands, it becomes a trite poem, because you are using it to try to bolster a flawed argument.

Amazing that you can spend so much time deflecting over a poem, instead of directly answering why "American cannot allow there to be a holocaust in Israel."

Would you like the opportunity to actually defend your ignorant statement, or do you want to retract it?

Of course, you are also free to continue deflecting. And insulting me - it seems to be all you have!
 
My point was to answer your insistence that:
American cannot allow there to be a holocaust in Israel.

You haven't explained why, besides offering a trite poem. If there was to be the start of a holocaust in Israel, would it be a proper response to say "We involved ourselves in Bosnia - we cannot be involved in every evil".

???

When you can explain why it would be America's burden to not "allow" there to be a holocaust in Israel, please be brave enough to put it into a post.

"...trite poem."

"First they came…" is a famous statement attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group. The text of the quotation is usually presented roughly as follows:

First They came... - Pastor Martin Niemoller

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
First they came? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"...trite poem."

Many times expedience and the constraints of time and space direct us to use a kind of cultural shorthand, a word or phrase- or a poem, an iconic quote, whose meaning and significance everyone understands.

At least when one assumes a level of humanity and education, it is expected that every such person understands.

Then there is you.

The jaw-dropping level of ignorance, of intellectual isolation that you evice in critquing the Niemöller work as 'some trite poem' is astounding, both because you show that you don't understand it, its significance, and that you admit your befuddlement.

"...trite poem."

It means we stand up for our fellow man, for humanity.

The saving grace here is that you are clearly a message-board mannequin, and as such, serve as a reason to post correct information to counter the jujune and empty missives of yours.

You picked the wrong name. Troglodyte would be more appropriate.

In your ham-hands, it becomes a trite poem, because you are using it to try to bolster a flawed argument.

Amazing that you can spend so much time deflecting over a poem, instead of directly answering why "American cannot allow there to be a holocaust in Israel."

Would you like the opportunity to actually defend your ignorant statement, or do you want to retract it?

Of course, you are also free to continue deflecting. And insulting me - it seems to be all you have!

Well, I believe I'll take you up on that suggestion:

First, let me make you feel at home, I’ll speak to you in the language you are most familiar with:

sit-stay-roll over.

Outside of this, and based on the level of understanding that you have shown up to now, explaining this complex discussion to you would be like putting an elevator in an out-house.

It would be a waste of perfectly good electrons.
 
Ahh so someone else is noticing the right's quandry. Democracy and freedom vs fear and hatred of the Islamic religion.

Quandry? Where? Not here. Let them have at each other. Whoever wins, wins.

Yeah but people are assuming there will be a negative affect on Israel, and republicans are desperate to continue having american taxpayer dollars rain down on Israel with neverending consistency.

As the Constitution says, it's the american taxpayer's responsibility to pay for Israeli defense from POTENTIAL threats, come to think of it I think I'm going to make a donation to the US gov't right now just to make sure we have enough money to pay for more weapons to give Israel.
 
Haven't we allowed a holocaust in Sudan? Darfur?

What's the difference?

I need you to be clear here: is your point if we don't involve ourselves in every evil, we must not involve ourselves in any?

Or, was your post merely the equivalent of flailing around looking for a reponse?

My point was to answer your insistence that:

American cannot allow there to be a holocaust in Israel.

You haven't explained why, besides offering a trite poem. If there was to be the start of a holocaust in Israel, would it be a proper response to say "We involved ourselves in Bosnia - we cannot be involved in every evil".

???

When you can explain why it would be America's burden to not "allow" there to be a holocaust in Israel, please be brave enough to put it into a post.

because you asswiped ignorant dumbass, America supports democracy. Israel is a democracy and an ally. God they grow you guys dumb don't they?
 
Ahh so someone else is noticing the right's quandry. Democracy and freedom vs fear and hatred of the Islamic religion.

Quandry? Where? Not here. Let them have at each other. Whoever wins, wins.

Yeah but people are assuming there will be a negative affect on Israel, and republicans are desperate to continue having american taxpayer dollars rain down on Israel with neverending consistency.
Assuming? Doubtful. There's no way of telling, right now, what the result of this will bring.
People -are- likely concerned in regards to Israel, and rightly so, for any number of perfectly reasonable reasons.
That one might dismiss any of these perfectly reasonable reasons simply because of who holds them or because Israel is involved only acts to illustrate his own lack of reason.
 
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I need you to be clear here: is your point if we don't involve ourselves in every evil, we must not involve ourselves in any?

Or, was your post merely the equivalent of flailing around looking for a reponse?

My point was to answer your insistence that:

American cannot allow there to be a holocaust in Israel.

You haven't explained why, besides offering a trite poem. If there was to be the start of a holocaust in Israel, would it be a proper response to say "We involved ourselves in Bosnia - we cannot be involved in every evil".

???

When you can explain why it would be America's burden to not "allow" there to be a holocaust in Israel, please be brave enough to put it into a post.

because you asswiped ignorant dumbass, America supports democracy. Israel is a democracy and an ally. God they grow you guys dumb don't they?

The stupid wingnut doesn't realize the Sudan was also a democracy.

But they were black, so we can't be involved in every evil. Wingnuts think that egyptians are not white, so it's "we can't be involved in every evil". But Israel is white, so we can't allow a holocaust in Israel.
 
"...trite poem."

"First they came…" is a famous statement attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group. The text of the quotation is usually presented roughly as follows:

First They came... - Pastor Martin Niemoller

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
First they came? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"...trite poem."

Many times expedience and the constraints of time and space direct us to use a kind of cultural shorthand, a word or phrase- or a poem, an iconic quote, whose meaning and significance everyone understands.

At least when one assumes a level of humanity and education, it is expected that every such person understands.

Then there is you.

The jaw-dropping level of ignorance, of intellectual isolation that you evice in critquing the Niemöller work as 'some trite poem' is astounding, both because you show that you don't understand it, its significance, and that you admit your befuddlement.

"...trite poem."

It means we stand up for our fellow man, for humanity.

The saving grace here is that you are clearly a message-board mannequin, and as such, serve as a reason to post correct information to counter the jujune and empty missives of yours.

You picked the wrong name. Troglodyte would be more appropriate.

In your ham-hands, it becomes a trite poem, because you are using it to try to bolster a flawed argument.

Amazing that you can spend so much time deflecting over a poem, instead of directly answering why "American cannot allow there to be a holocaust in Israel."

Would you like the opportunity to actually defend your ignorant statement, or do you want to retract it?

Of course, you are also free to continue deflecting. And insulting me - it seems to be all you have!

Well, I believe I'll take you up on that suggestion:

First, let me make you feel at home, I’ll speak to you in the language you are most familiar with:

sit-stay-roll over.

Outside of this, and based on the level of understanding that you have shown up to now, explaining this complex discussion to you would be like putting an elevator in an out-house.

It would be a waste of perfectly good electrons.

You are really ashamed of your congenital predisposition to subservience aren't you?

Most conservative women are.:lol:
 

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