US is not ready for Medicare for all

[ElmerMudd]

What happens when, say, 10 years from now, government has enacted Medicare for all, many private insurance companies have had to close their doors and access to private insurance is no longer an option, or at least an affordable option.

Now, the government has you in its clutches and you have nowhere to go. Government realizes that the current income will not support the system, so now they have to start raising taxes every year to pay for it.

Oh, and that promise that, once you're on MFA that there will be no more copays, no more prescription costs and medical treatment will be free, that will go away once they realize the cost is going to be MUCH higher than they anticipated, and people are going to the doctor for every little ache and pain.

It wont be long before they start saying "well, looks like we will need to start charging a copay after all, aaaaaaand.....were going to need you to chip in about 30% of the cost of your prescriptions.....aaaaaaaand.....were going to have to raise your taxes by another $500 next year to help cover costs..."

And now....you have nowhere to go, because all your old insurance companies are gone.

I've heard people say "it will be cheaper because we won't have to pay some ceo 15 million a year".....really?? You think government run health care wont have its share of people siphoning from the system? Instead of a ceo being paid 15 million a year, you'll have politicians raiding the fund for 15 million per year.

Government has never been the bastion of efficiency. Government is wasteful and spendy, and there is never a pool of money yet that the government cant leave alone. They see money setting somewhere, they have to spend it. The same will happen with this Medicare for all taxation money.

Please see the map of the world below. The vast majority of the world has universal healthcare or free healthcare. If they can do it, we can do it.

 

[Rigby5]

What happens when, say, 10 years from now, government has enacted Medicare for all, many private insurance companies have had to close their doors and access to private insurance is no longer an option, or at least an affordable option.

Now, the government has you in its clutches and you have nowhere to go. Government realizes that the current income will not support the system, so now they have to start raising taxes every year to pay for it.

Oh, and that promise that, once you're on MFA that there will be no more copays, no more prescription costs and medical treatment will be free, that will go away once they realize the cost is going to be MUCH higher than they anticipated, and people are going to the doctor for every little ache and pain.

It wont be long before they start saying "well, looks like we will need to start charging a copay after all, aaaaaaand.....were going to need you to chip in about 30% of the cost of your prescriptions.....aaaaaaaand.....were going to have to raise your taxes by another $500 next year to help cover costs..."

And now....you have nowhere to go, because all your old insurance companies are gone.

I've heard people say "it will be cheaper because we won't have to pay some ceo 15 million a year".....really?? You think government run health care wont have its share of people siphoning from the system? Instead of a ceo being paid 15 million a year, you'll have politicians raiding the fund for 15 million per year.

Government has never been the bastion of efficiency. Government is wasteful and spendy, and there is never a pool of money yet that the government cant leave alone. They see money setting somewhere, they have to spend it. The same will happen with this Medicare for all taxation money.

We know for sure a government administered health care system will have much less overhead, because Medicare and VA hospitals already do have less then a forth of the over head cost of private health insurance companies.
You simply are easily proven wrong by the low administration costs of Medicare since its beginning in 1965.

It is not just that Medicare has much lower administration costs, but that private health insurance companies deliberately encourage providers to inflate their charges, because that increases the number of customers who can no longer afford health care without having insurance.
Collective bargaining over health care costs can easily reduce them by more than half.

What you have to remember is that what caused the current private health care insurance system was for employers to illegally be granted an income tax exemption for employee benefits. All benefits should always have been taxed, and the government should not have encouraged the wealthy to be able to get employer benefits tax exemptions, because the poor do not get them, and that caused the poor to subsidize the wealthy.

 

[Rigby5]

why not? If someone freely chooses not to carry health insurance why should we have to pay for their choice?

Let 'em rot in the street! Fuck 'em!

After all, this is the Old West, every man fer himself!

It is one of those oddities....the same people that do not want to be forced to do things have no issue with the government forcing doctors and hospitals to provide care despite lack of ability to be compensated for their service and products by the one being treated.

Yup. It's a waste of time trying to pierce the bubble.

Ask them how Medicare works, they launch into talk radio platitudes. Ask them how the Meltdown happened, they launch into talk radio platitudes.

They. Just. Don't. Know.

It's kind of funny, but more than that, it's dangerous.
.

Medicare "works" by coercion, confiscation, and redistribution...All of its "choices" are within the framework of this original centralized State aggression....Marxism lite.

But it is instructive to see your pal, the fake libertarian, carrying the water for statism.

Hell yes Oddscrotum, Medicare is socialism. Let the free market rule.
As you get old it is like buying auto insurance for a car with 300,000 miles on it. Insurance is based on risk. In a free market old people pay thousands a month because they are high risk. In a free market the government does not step in to pay for those without insurance. The government would go broke.
And what about the socialist school system in the US. People without kids pay taxes to pay for schools for children that are not theirs. The hell with that. People with kids pay and figure out schools on their own. And what about fire departments and police? We pay to support through taxes but what if we never have a fire or a problem requiring police. This is all BS, Oddscrotum. I am with you.

A "free market" is where there is no government regulation at all, and companies are free to create abusive monopolies, use extortion, etc.
Insurance is supposed to be just risk pooling, but that can easily be done without anyone extracting over half the money paid in as profits.
Any insurance company that is not nonprofit essentially is an extortion racket.
The whole point of a democratic republic is to organize risk pooling with out the profit motive.
For example, the wealthy are not supposed to get better service from firemen or police than poor people.

Do you really want everything to be on the profit motive, where the children of wealthy are the only ones that get educated or are healthy?

 

[ThisIsMe]

What happens when, say, 10 years from now, government has enacted Medicare for all, many private insurance companies have had to close their doors and access to private insurance is no longer an option, or at least an affordable option.

Now, the government has you in its clutches and you have nowhere to go. Government realizes that the current income will not support the system, so now they have to start raising taxes every year to pay for it.

Oh, and that promise that, once you're on MFA that there will be no more copays, no more prescription costs and medical treatment will be free, that will go away once they realize the cost is going to be MUCH higher than they anticipated, and people are going to the doctor for every little ache and pain.

It wont be long before they start saying "well, looks like we will need to start charging a copay after all, aaaaaaand.....were going to need you to chip in about 30% of the cost of your prescriptions.....aaaaaaaand.....were going to have to raise your taxes by another $500 next year to help cover costs..."

And now....you have nowhere to go, because all your old insurance companies are gone.

I've heard people say "it will be cheaper because we won't have to pay some ceo 15 million a year".....really?? You think government run health care wont have its share of people siphoning from the system? Instead of a ceo being paid 15 million a year, you'll have politicians raiding the fund for 15 million per year.

Government has never been the bastion of efficiency. Government is wasteful and spendy, and there is never a pool of money yet that the government cant leave alone. They see money setting somewhere, they have to spend it. The same will happen with this Medicare for all taxation money.

Please see the map of the world below. The vast majority of the world has universal healthcare or free healthcare. If they can do it, we can do it.

Many of those countries are a fraction of the size of the u.s., plus, all the money they tax from their citizens stays in the country. They are not shipping hundreds of billions to every other country across the globe.

On top of that, while those countries have free healthcare, how many of then are happy with that system? How many can get the level of treatment they want, and don't have to wait 6 months to see a doctor?

How many of those countries are under a dictatorships or socialist government, and their citizens have no choice but to be in the government run program.

 

[ThisIsMe]

What happens when, say, 10 years from now, government has enacted Medicare for all, many private insurance companies have had to close their doors and access to private insurance is no longer an option, or at least an affordable option.

Now, the government has you in its clutches and you have nowhere to go. Government realizes that the current income will not support the system, so now they have to start raising taxes every year to pay for it.

Oh, and that promise that, once you're on MFA that there will be no more copays, no more prescription costs and medical treatment will be free, that will go away once they realize the cost is going to be MUCH higher than they anticipated, and people are going to the doctor for every little ache and pain.

It wont be long before they start saying "well, looks like we will need to start charging a copay after all, aaaaaaand.....were going to need you to chip in about 30% of the cost of your prescriptions.....aaaaaaaand.....were going to have to raise your taxes by another $500 next year to help cover costs..."

And now....you have nowhere to go, because all your old insurance companies are gone.

I've heard people say "it will be cheaper because we won't have to pay some ceo 15 million a year".....really?? You think government run health care wont have its share of people siphoning from the system? Instead of a ceo being paid 15 million a year, you'll have politicians raiding the fund for 15 million per year.

Government has never been the bastion of efficiency. Government is wasteful and spendy, and there is never a pool of money yet that the government cant leave alone. They see money setting somewhere, they have to spend it. The same will happen with this Medicare for all taxation money.

We know for sure a government administered health care system will have much less overhead, because Medicare and VA hospitals already do have less then a forth of the over head cost of private health insurance companies.
You simply are easily proven wrong by the low administration costs of Medicare since its beginning in 1965.

It is not just that Medicare has much lower administration costs, but that private health insurance companies deliberately encourage providers to inflate their charges, because that increases the number of customers who can no longer afford health care without having insurance.
Collective bargaining over health care costs can easily reduce them by more than half.

What you have to remember is that what caused the current private health care insurance system was for employers to illegally be granted an income tax exemption for employee benefits. All benefits should always have been taxed, and the government should not have encouraged the wealthy to be able to get employer benefits tax exemptions, because the poor do not get them, and that caused the poor to subsidize the wealthy.

How many people are enrolled in medicare and the v.a.? About 55 million in medicare and about 9 million a year use the v.a. services?

Let's say medicare for all becomes the only affordable option, and you have over 280 million people enrolled in it, you'll see that overhead rise very quickly.

 

[Oddball]

A "free market" is where there is no government regulation at all, and companies are free to create abusive monopolies, use extortion, etc.
Insurance is supposed to be just risk pooling, but that can easily be done without anyone extracting over half the money paid in as profits.
Any insurance company that is not nonprofit essentially is an extortion racket.
The whole point of a democratic republic is to organize risk pooling with out the profit motive.
For example, the wealthy are not supposed to get better service from firemen or police than poor people.

Do you really want everything to be on the profit motive, where the children of wealthy are the only ones that get educated or are healthy?

Profits fuel research and development.

People could pay for most medical procedures out-of-pocket before gubmint started getting its grimy mitts all over the medical profession.

 

[Oddball]

What happens when, say, 10 years from now, government has enacted Medicare for all, many private insurance companies have had to close their doors and access to private insurance is no longer an option, or at least an affordable option.

Now, the government has you in its clutches and you have nowhere to go. Government realizes that the current income will not support the system, so now they have to start raising taxes every year to pay for it.

Oh, and that promise that, once you're on MFA that there will be no more copays, no more prescription costs and medical treatment will be free, that will go away once they realize the cost is going to be MUCH higher than they anticipated, and people are going to the doctor for every little ache and pain.

It wont be long before they start saying "well, looks like we will need to start charging a copay after all, aaaaaaand.....were going to need you to chip in about 30% of the cost of your prescriptions.....aaaaaaaand.....were going to have to raise your taxes by another $500 next year to help cover costs..."

And now....you have nowhere to go, because all your old insurance companies are gone.

I've heard people say "it will be cheaper because we won't have to pay some ceo 15 million a year".....really?? You think government run health care wont have its share of people siphoning from the system? Instead of a ceo being paid 15 million a year, you'll have politicians raiding the fund for 15 million per year.

Government has never been the bastion of efficiency. Government is wasteful and spendy, and there is never a pool of money yet that the government cant leave alone. They see money setting somewhere, they have to spend it. The same will happen with this Medicare for all taxation money.

Please see the map of the world below. The vast majority of the world has universal healthcare or free healthcare. If they can do it, we can do it.

Bandwagon fallacy isn't an argument.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What happens when, say, 10 years from now, government has enacted Medicare for all, many private insurance companies have had to close their doors and access to private insurance is no longer an option, or at least an affordable option.

Now, the government has you in its clutches and you have nowhere to go. Government realizes that the current income will not support the system, so now they have to start raising taxes every year to pay for it.

Oh, and that promise that, once you're on MFA that there will be no more copays, no more prescription costs and medical treatment will be free, that will go away once they realize the cost is going to be MUCH higher than they anticipated, and people are going to the doctor for every little ache and pain.

It wont be long before they start saying "well, looks like we will need to start charging a copay after all, aaaaaaand.....were going to need you to chip in about 30% of the cost of your prescriptions.....aaaaaaaand.....were going to have to raise your taxes by another $500 next year to help cover costs..."

And now....you have nowhere to go, because all your old insurance companies are gone.

I've heard people say "it will be cheaper because we won't have to pay some ceo 15 million a year".....really?? You think government run health care wont have its share of people siphoning from the system? Instead of a ceo being paid 15 million a year, you'll have politicians raiding the fund for 15 million per year.

Government has never been the bastion of efficiency. Government is wasteful and spendy, and there is never a pool of money yet that the government cant leave alone. They see money setting somewhere, they have to spend it. The same will happen with this Medicare for all taxation money.

We know for sure a government administered health care system will have much less overhead, because Medicare and VA hospitals already do have less then a forth of the over head cost of private health insurance companies.
You simply are easily proven wrong by the low administration costs of Medicare since its beginning in 1965.

It is not just that Medicare has much lower administration costs, but that private health insurance companies deliberately encourage providers to inflate their charges, because that increases the number of customers who can no longer afford health care without having insurance.
Collective bargaining over health care costs can easily reduce them by more than half.

What you have to remember is that what caused the current private health care insurance system was for employers to illegally be granted an income tax exemption for employee benefits. All benefits should always have been taxed, and the government should not have encouraged the wealthy to be able to get employer benefits tax exemptions, because the poor do not get them, and that caused the poor to subsidize the wealthy.

How many people are enrolled in medicare and the v.a.? About 55 million in medicare and about 9 million a year use the v.a. services?

Let's say medicare for all becomes the only affordable option, and you have over 280 million people enrolled in it, you'll see that overhead rise very quickly.

The only reason Medicare and Medicaid survive is because of private pay and private insurance.

Providers often have to accept underpayment for government patients. They recoup those losses on private pay and private insurance by raising rates on everybody. That's why when a medical facility closes down, it's usually in poorer areas where most of the clientele are on government programs. There is no place to recoup the lost money.

So then Democrats get in charge and it's Medicare for all. Okay.....fine.....but where are facilities supposed to recoup their losses from now?

The truth is they can't. So they either close down, or government has to start paying their fair share for all of their government patients which would then be everybody in the country. It would be totally unaffordable.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

On top of that, while those countries have free healthcare, how many of then are happy with that system? How many can get the level of treatment they want, and don't have to wait 6 months to see a doctor?

We have a good share of truck drivers from Canada come here. While waiting to get loaded or unloaded, we truck drivers often have BS sessions outside. When I talk to a Canadian driver, I always try to bring up healthcare.

Most of the younger and middle-aged drivers tell me their Canadian system is the best. The elderly drivers told me to keep what we have, or we will be sorry someday.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What happens when, say, 10 years from now, government has enacted Medicare for all, many private insurance companies have had to close their doors and access to private insurance is no longer an option, or at least an affordable option.

Now, the government has you in its clutches and you have nowhere to go. Government realizes that the current income will not support the system, so now they have to start raising taxes every year to pay for it.

Oh, and that promise that, once you're on MFA that there will be no more copays, no more prescription costs and medical treatment will be free, that will go away once they realize the cost is going to be MUCH higher than they anticipated, and people are going to the doctor for every little ache and pain.

It wont be long before they start saying "well, looks like we will need to start charging a copay after all, aaaaaaand.....were going to need you to chip in about 30% of the cost of your prescriptions.....aaaaaaaand.....were going to have to raise your taxes by another $500 next year to help cover costs..."

And now....you have nowhere to go, because all your old insurance companies are gone.

I've heard people say "it will be cheaper because we won't have to pay some ceo 15 million a year".....really?? You think government run health care wont have its share of people siphoning from the system? Instead of a ceo being paid 15 million a year, you'll have politicians raiding the fund for 15 million per year.

Government has never been the bastion of efficiency. Government is wasteful and spendy, and there is never a pool of money yet that the government cant leave alone. They see money setting somewhere, they have to spend it. The same will happen with this Medicare for all taxation money.

We know for sure a government administered health care system will have much less overhead, because Medicare and VA hospitals already do have less then a forth of the over head cost of private health insurance companies.
You simply are easily proven wrong by the low administration costs of Medicare since its beginning in 1965.

It is not just that Medicare has much lower administration costs, but that private health insurance companies deliberately encourage providers to inflate their charges, because that increases the number of customers who can no longer afford health care without having insurance.
Collective bargaining over health care costs can easily reduce them by more than half.

What you have to remember is that what caused the current private health care insurance system was for employers to illegally be granted an income tax exemption for employee benefits. All benefits should always have been taxed, and the government should not have encouraged the wealthy to be able to get employer benefits tax exemptions, because the poor do not get them, and that caused the poor to subsidize the wealthy.

The poor can't subsidize the wealthy because they don't have the money to do so. What Trump should have done is offer a tax cut to companies that do provide adequate health insurance to their employees. What Commie Care did was encourage them to drop their plans, and that's what many smaller companies did.

So we spent a trillion dollars (or more) subsidizing likely Democrat voters, which was part of the design of the plan. The lower income earners get a great plan for cheap, while the upper income earners pay ridiculous costs and get little coverage.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What happens when, say, 10 years from now, government has enacted Medicare for all, many private insurance companies have had to close their doors and access to private insurance is no longer an option, or at least an affordable option.

Now, the government has you in its clutches and you have nowhere to go. Government realizes that the current income will not support the system, so now they have to start raising taxes every year to pay for it.

Oh, and that promise that, once you're on MFA that there will be no more copays, no more prescription costs and medical treatment will be free, that will go away once they realize the cost is going to be MUCH higher than they anticipated, and people are going to the doctor for every little ache and pain.

It wont be long before they start saying "well, looks like we will need to start charging a copay after all, aaaaaaand.....were going to need you to chip in about 30% of the cost of your prescriptions.....aaaaaaaand.....were going to have to raise your taxes by another $500 next year to help cover costs..."

And now....you have nowhere to go, because all your old insurance companies are gone.

I've heard people say "it will be cheaper because we won't have to pay some ceo 15 million a year".....really?? You think government run health care wont have its share of people siphoning from the system? Instead of a ceo being paid 15 million a year, you'll have politicians raiding the fund for 15 million per year.

Government has never been the bastion of efficiency. Government is wasteful and spendy, and there is never a pool of money yet that the government cant leave alone. They see money setting somewhere, they have to spend it. The same will happen with this Medicare for all taxation money.

Please see the map of the world below. The vast majority of the world has universal healthcare or free healthcare. If they can do it, we can do it.

As a patient at the world famous Cleveland Clinic, I can testify that when you go to their downtown campus, you are the one that feels like the foreigner.

Not only do people come here from all around the world for treatment, but the medical personnel is pretty much the same. Doctors who came here from other countries got educated here for the most part, and stayed because of the money. That's why we have the best from all around the world.

If you want to be like those other countries, then look for a doctor shortage not long after that. Nobody wants to spend 8 years in college to make a mediocre income. Many less will want to practice in the US if they can make the same amount as they can back home.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What happens when, say, 10 years from now, government has enacted Medicare for all, many private insurance companies have had to close their doors and access to private insurance is no longer an option, or at least an affordable option.

Now, the government has you in its clutches and you have nowhere to go. Government realizes that the current income will not support the system, so now they have to start raising taxes every year to pay for it.

Politicians (particularly Democrats) have wanted to have more control over the people all along. The two entities stopping them from total control are healthcare and energy. Once government controls those two things, they will have total control over us.

So what could happen in the US ten or twenty years from now with that kind of government control?

Japan, Seeking Trim Waists, Measures Millions

Obese patients and smokers banned from routine surgery in 'most severe ever' rationing in the NHS

 

[basquebromance]

A Giant Statistical Round-Up of the Income Inequality Crisis in 16 Charts

income inequality is detrimental to liberty, my friends, thats why we need M4A!

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Oh fuck you....Nobody is being left to "die in the streets".

why not? If someone freely chooses not to carry health insurance why should we have to pay for their choice?

Let 'em rot in the street! Fuck 'em!

After all, this is the Old West, every man fer himself!

It is one of those oddities....the same people that do not want to be forced to do things have no issue with the government forcing doctors and hospitals to provide care despite lack of ability to be compensated for their service and products by the one being treated.

Yup. It's a waste of time trying to pierce the bubble.

Ask them how Medicare works, they launch into talk radio platitudes. Ask them how the Meltdown happened, they launch into talk radio platitudes.

They. Just. Don't. Know.

It's kind of funny, but more than that, it's dangerous.
.

There is a part of me that looks forward to Trump introducing it as "Trump care" and watching all of these people that are dead set against it all of a sudden support it like they have been in favor of it their whole life.

It depends on what his plans are if he even has any.

If people want government care, go to your post office sometime and ask if that's the way you want to be treated for your illnesses. Try calling city hall in any major city and see how long it takes for you to report a light bulb broken in a traffic light. Then see how long it takes them to repair it. Ask anybody who went on SS disability, and how long it took them, and what kind of costs and fight they had to put up to get it, if they were not totally rejected.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

US is not ready for Medicare for all.
Democrats, do not over play your hand when you are running against the worst President in our history.
US voters favor a hybrid system that includes a government that anyone can buy into along with a private option.
Do not let ideaology override practicality.

A majority of the ameican people support it, capital is not ready for all of us to have access to healthcare.

A majority of American people would also like their debt erased.

Medicare for all would help, what's the #1 reason for most mortgage foreclosures again?

I have conservative friends in Australia, Canada, UK and other nations that have universal healthcare and the majority like it.
But I feel it would be much better to ease into it rather than make an all or nothing program at one time.. An expanded Medicare program for those who want it and a private plan for those who want that. From the learning of the hybrid program, changes can be planned.

do not worry... even if Warren becomes president, it can't happen without full support....

have you seen the 10 democratic candidates in the debates? NONE agree with one another on anything other than they all know our health care system needs improvement... the country is not ready for something like this either..

she simply can't shove anything down our throats

Having a public option for those who want it or need it, would be the farthest the proposal would go...

the real issues left with our system all involve affordability....high premiums, high deductibles, high out of pocket expense, high drug costs.... focus on those things and what could lower costs, both sides of the aisle should focus on improving...

Very seldom do you and I agree, but for that comment......



The first step into improving our system is cost control. If you proceed doing anything else before that, then you end up with a failed program like Obama Care.

Given the fact there are at least a dozen ways to lower costs, that needs to be done first, and then let's figure out a way to pay for it. Just sliding the costs from one entity to another solves nothing.

 

[Care4all]

What happens when, say, 10 years from now, government has enacted Medicare for all, many private insurance companies have had to close their doors and access to private insurance is no longer an option, or at least an affordable option.

Now, the government has you in its clutches and you have nowhere to go. Government realizes that the current income will not support the system, so now they have to start raising taxes every year to pay for it.

Oh, and that promise that, once you're on MFA that there will be no more copays, no more prescription costs and medical treatment will be free, that will go away once they realize the cost is going to be MUCH higher than they anticipated, and people are going to the doctor for every little ache and pain.

It wont be long before they start saying "well, looks like we will need to start charging a copay after all, aaaaaaand.....were going to need you to chip in about 30% of the cost of your prescriptions.....aaaaaaaand.....were going to have to raise your taxes by another $500 next year to help cover costs..."

And now....you have nowhere to go, because all your old insurance companies are gone.

I've heard people say "it will be cheaper because we won't have to pay some ceo 15 million a year".....really?? You think government run health care wont have its share of people siphoning from the system? Instead of a ceo being paid 15 million a year, you'll have politicians raiding the fund for 15 million per year.

Government has never been the bastion of efficiency. Government is wasteful and spendy, and there is never a pool of money yet that the government cant leave alone. They see money setting somewhere, they have to spend it. The same will happen with this Medicare for all taxation money.

We know for sure a government administered health care system will have much less overhead, because Medicare and VA hospitals already do have less then a forth of the over head cost of private health insurance companies.
You simply are easily proven wrong by the low administration costs of Medicare since its beginning in 1965.

It is not just that Medicare has much lower administration costs, but that private health insurance companies deliberately encourage providers to inflate their charges, because that increases the number of customers who can no longer afford health care without having insurance.
Collective bargaining over health care costs can easily reduce them by more than half.

What you have to remember is that what caused the current private health care insurance system was for employers to illegally be granted an income tax exemption for employee benefits. All benefits should always have been taxed, and the government should not have encouraged the wealthy to be able to get employer benefits tax exemptions, because the poor do not get them, and that caused the poor to subsidize the wealthy.

How many people are enrolled in medicare and the v.a.? About 55 million in medicare and about 9 million a year use the v.a. services?

Let's say medicare for all becomes the only affordable option, and you have over 280 million people enrolled in it, you'll see that overhead rise very quickly.

The only reason Medicare and Medicaid survive is because of private pay and private insurance.

Providers often have to accept underpayment for government patients. They recoup those losses on private pay and private insurance by raising rates on everybody. That's why when a medical facility closes down, it's usually in poorer areas where most of the clientele are on government programs. There is no place to recoup the lost money.

So then Democrats get in charge and it's Medicare for all. Okay.....fine.....but where are facilities supposed to recoup their losses from now?

The truth is they can't. So they either close down, or government has to start paying their fair share for all of their government patients which would then be everybody in the country. It would be totally unaffordable.

but if health care was a 'widget' being sold, the increase in patients, (sales) would reduce the price of the widget's costs and then reduce the price at retail...

if more medical procedures are done... lets say a hospital does 1000 MRI's a year and then let's say1000 more people a year get an MRI at a hospital than previous years because more people have health care coverage with a universal plan for all... the cost of that MRI per person, should be reduced...

because the MRI machine cost them X amt of money, of which they are paying off the loan for.... with doubling the MRI's done in a year.... they can lower the price per person and still pay off the fixed cost of the loan each year and still make their profit... same with all other specialty medical machines, like ones for mammograms, xrays, CT Scans, etc etc etc,.... and buying supplies...like gauze, aspirin, sutures, scissors, scalpels, bed sheets etc etc etc.... all cheaper because they can get a bulk discount from manufacturers... the larger the order, the cheaper the price....

so, if health care operates like any other retail widget, the increase in patients, (buying customers) that most are fearing of hurting the system, would be like increasing the number of units sold at retail, which would bring their prorated overhead and supply costs, and medical equipment costs down....?

it seems like it could work in that manner... if it were like retail....

but that would leave us with needing more workers in the medical field... and for a short time that could be a problem, but we could address this near immediately by pushing college kids in to the medical field.... jobs jobs jobs....

PLEASE don't get me wrong on this, I am not supporting medicare for all... I was just thinking out loud on it....

 

[Oddball]

It depends on what his plans are if he even has any.

If people want government care, go to your post office sometime and ask if that's the way you want to be treated for your illnesses. Try calling city hall in any major city and see how long it takes for you to report a light bulb broken in a traffic light. Then see how long it takes them to repair it. Ask anybody who went on SS disability, and how long it took them, and what kind of costs and fight they had to put up to get it, if they were not totally rejected.

Shit....Just go to the VA.

Golfing Gomer is less of a libertarian than booze hound Bill Weld.

 

[Oddball]

but if health care was a 'widget' being sold, the increase in patients, (sales) would reduce the price of the widget's costs and then reduce the price at retail...

if more medical procedures are done... lets say a hospital does 1000 MRI's a year and then let's say1000 more people a year get an MRI at a hospital than previous years because more people have health care coverage with a universal plan for all... the cost of that MRI per person, should be reduced...

because the MRI machine cost them X amt of money, of which they are paying off the loan for.... with doubling the MRI's done in a year.... they can lower the price per person and still pay off the fixed cost of the loan each year and still make their profit... same with all other specialty medical machines, like ones for mammograms, xrays, CT Scans, etc etc etc,.... and buying supplies...like gauze, aspirin, sutures, scissors, scalpels, bed sheets etc etc etc.... all cheaper because they can get a bulk discount from manufacturers... the larger the order, the cheaper the price....

so, if health care operates like any other retail widget, the increase in patients, (buying customers) that most are fearing of hurting the system, would be like increasing the number of units sold at retail, which would bring their prorated overhead and supply costs, and medical equipment costs down....?

it seems like it could work in that manner... if it were like retail....

but that would leave us with needing more workers in the medical field... and for a short time that could be a problem, but we could address this near immediately by pushing college kids in to the medical field.... jobs jobs jobs....

PLEASE don't get me wrong on this, I am not supporting medicare for all... I was just thinking out loud on it....

If the widgets had eighteen layers of bureaucracy and 3rd party payors between the buyer and seller, they'd be as expensive and low quality as hell too.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Shit....Just go to the VA.

Golfing Gomer is less of a libertarian than booze hound Bill Weld.

I am not a libertarian because I know that you sheep will cheer for singer payer when it is Trump' idea? whatever helps you sleep at night.

You been to a VA facility?

 

[basquebromance]

there's 2 americas my friends! one that is protected by government, and one that is punished by it!