USA was really really dumb to move so much manufacturing to China

[Andylusion]

Under-regulated, under-thought capitalism allows for huge mistakes like this.

Another example of how those who refuse to understand that are opening the door for the socialists.

I must be missing something. Give me an example of "under-regulated" or "under-thought" capitalism.

 

[pknopp]

We are so vulnerable. Look, China won’t even deliver masks to the USA manufactured by American owned companies.

What a colossal geo political blunder by some many stupid swamp creatures.

If China makes all of our shit, doesn’t that make us beholden to them? We can just tell them to pound sand. He rely on them.

So fucked.

TPP? So fucking stupid.

I sure hope you PROUDLY wear your MAGA hat....made in china.....

MAGA hats are not made in China. There are some cheap knockoff from China, but none of the MAGA hats are actually from China. I assume you know this? Or are you ignorant?

Trump's clothing line was. Just the same as he hired illegals.

Until that all became a campaign platform.

Sure. If I was Trump, I would have done the same, except for illegals.

If you can't make something profitable in the US, then you have to make it outside the US, or not make it. That's how that works. No one is going to make a product in the US that causes them to lose money, just so they can say it was made in the US.

Nevertheless, the MAGA hats were never made in China. Sorry. That's left-wing Jessie Smollett story telling.

But I have no problem hiring legal immigrants, or outsourcing to China or anywhere in general. It's up to you to not have a system the creates economic incentives to make stuff outside the US.

Trump now says that is bad for America.

 

[pknopp]

And yet you are not able to do anything to back your claim. We still have large cars today.One of the most popular vehicles on the road today is the huge trucks. Overall trucks are even larger than they were in the past.

TRUCKS are not cars, you blithering idiot!

You still haven't backed up your position.

CAFE standards. Taxes on cars that USD more gas. (Trucks do not lay these taxes.)

Game, set, match. You lose.

Yes, we increased CAFE standards. That didn't ban big cars like you said so what are you saying? That you miss the days of smog filled cities?

If you want a car from Ford, there will soon be only one: the Mustang

No, it doesn't "ban cars", it just makes it unprofitable to make them, and thus the number of cars made will drastically decline.

We have the old CAFE standards of decades, and I don't remember 'smog filled cities' during those decades.

So now you are just playing another Jessie Smollett fabricated story.

Cars from other countries must meet the same CAFE standards.

 

[pknopp]

Under-regulated, under-thought capitalism allows for huge mistakes like this.

Another example of how those who refuse to understand that are opening the door for the socialists.

I must be missing something. Give me an example of "under-regulated" or "under-thought" capitalism.

Purdue Pharmacueticals.

Origins of an Epidemic: Purdue Pharma Knew Its Opioids Were Widely Abused

 

[Andylusion]

So we should go downward in wages? We as a nation should accept lower wages? Seems backwards thinking. Then prices of things have to drop big time. Otherwise people won't make enough to live paycheck to paycheck.

“Prosperity Through Lower Wages!”

Well yes.... if lower wages results in the creation of more jobs, and the creation of more jobs results in more people being employed, instead of unemployed... then yes that results in prosperity.

Again... are you going to be more prosperous earning Zero... or earning $5/hour? The answer is of course, earning $5/hour will be more prosperous than earning zero.

Equally, for the nation as a whole, every job in the private sector, is a productive job, or it wouldn't exist. Production creates wealth. Again, if you produced something of zero value, no one would hire you.

So increased production, means that the total wealth produced in the entire country, which benefits all of us, makes us more prosperous.

So again... more prosperity.

Now that does not mean we want people to earn less. I'd rather they earn more. And the way you earn more, is by gaining skills and abilities, experience and talent that allows you to produce more wealth.

For example years ago I had a friend who worked at Walmart. She used Walmarts tuition reimbursement program, to get a degree in construction engineering, and now has a job doing that, which of course pays more.

The solution to lower wages, is to have more people like her, who get jobs, and use those jobs to advance their skills the way she did.

The solution is not to mandate higher wages for low skill work, which results in people like her being laid off, and then they can't get a degree or experience to advance their career.

 

[pknopp]

So we should go downward in wages? We as a nation should accept lower wages? Seems backwards thinking. Then prices of things have to drop big time. Otherwise people won't make enough to live paycheck to paycheck.

“Prosperity Through Lower Wages!”

Well yes.... if lower wages results in the creation of more jobs, and the creation of more jobs results in more people being employed, instead of unemployed... then yes that results in prosperity.

Again... are you going to be more prosperous earning Zero... or earning $5/hour? The answer is of course, earning $5/hour will be more prosperous than earning zero.

Equally, for the nation as a whole, every job in the private sector, is a productive job, or it wouldn't exist. Production creates wealth. Again, if you produced something of zero value, no one would hire you.

So increased production, means that the total wealth produced in the entire country, which benefits all of us, makes us more prosperous.

So again... more prosperity.

Now that does not mean we want people to earn less. I'd rather they earn more. And the way you earn more, is by gaining skills and abilities, experience and talent that allows you to produce more wealth.

For example years ago I had a friend who worked at Walmart. She used Walmarts tuition reimbursement program, to get a degree in construction engineering, and now has a job doing that, which of course pays more.

The solution to lower wages, is to have more people like her, who get jobs, and use those jobs to advance their skills the way she did.

The solution is not to mandate higher wages for low skill work, which results in people like her being laid off, and then they can't get a degree or experience to advance their career.

That isn't how it works. People don't make $0. People get welfare.

 

[Supposn]

… But I have no problem hiring legal immigrants, or outsourcing to China or anywhere in general. It's up to you to not have a system the creates economic incentives to make stuff outside the US.

Andylusion, Refer to, Import certificates - Wikipedia. My response posted 4 hours ago concurs with your statement. Refer to, Import certificates - Wikipedia. Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Andylusion]

Under-regulated, under-thought capitalism allows for huge mistakes like this.

Another example of how those who refuse to understand that are opening the door for the socialists.

I must be missing something. Give me an example of "under-regulated" or "under-thought" capitalism.

Purdue Pharmacueticals.

Origins of an Epidemic: Purdue Pharma Knew Its Opioids Were Widely Abused

That is your example of unregulated capitalism?

Title 21 United States Code (USC) Controlled Substances Act - Section 801-971

Roughly 100 pages of laws. Doesn't include FDA regulations either.
That's just Federal Laws too, and doesn't include State laws.

This is exactly my point. You are pointing to the pharma industry, which is one of the most highly regulated industries in the country, and then claiming this is an example of unregulated capitalism.

And this is typical of all socialist views. You screw up a system, and then when your endless government regulations and controls end up blowing up the system, like the sub-prime crash, you try and blame it on Capitalism.

Well that doesn't work. Not for people who think, at least. You can't have a thousand laws on drugs, and then when something happens you don't like, blame it on the lack of regulations.

Further, it is most likely because of regulations and government, that we have the opioid epidemic. There are clear signs that Medicaid directly supported the crisis.

https://www.amazon.com/Dreamland-True-Americas-Opiate-Epidemic/dp/1620402505/&tag=ff0d01-20

Sam Quinones on Heroin, the Opioid Epidemic, and Dreamland - Econlib

The economist who wrote the book Dreamland, gave a podcast interview on this, on EconTalk. You can listen to it if you want.

Regardless, if you look at the evidence, Medicaid directly promoted the Opioid crisis.

By covering the cost of the drugs to poor people, who then turned around, and sold the drugs on the street, combined with Medicaid doctors who were willing to take cash payments from people they knew were selling the drugs illegally, Medicaid alone, created a vast market for prescription opioids.

And while you can claim, along with the fake news media outlets, that all the drug companies were doing thus and so..... the truth is, the drug companies had no real alternative.

You can sit here and say in retrospect that they should have prevented the sales of their pills.... but in an alternate reality, if the drug companies 20 years back had intentionally prevented sales of pills, and one single patient had been denied the drugs they wanted through Medicaid..... you people right here, right now, would be have a toddler level melt down about how the evil drug companies were refusing to supply needed medications to people.

And we know this, because you and those like you have already had such threads on this forum for other situations.

The drug companies, do not have company representatives at every doctors office in the country. They don't have evaluations for everyone single patient. Yes, they likely did know that their drugs were being sold, but without omniscience to know which patients were lying and selling, and which really needed it, there was nothing they could do. If they had attempted anything to stop drug sales, you people would have been all over them.

 

[Andylusion]

… But I have no problem hiring legal immigrants, or outsourcing to China or anywhere in general. It's up to you to not have a system the creates economic incentives to make stuff outside the US.

Andylusion, Refer to, Import certificates - Wikipedia. My response posted 4 hours ago concurs with your statement. Refer to, Import certificates - Wikipedia. Respectfully, Supposn

Regulations never improve anything. Import certificates is just another way to give more power to the government, which they will sell that power to the highest bidders.

We saw this in India for decades. They had massive tight controls on imports, which resulted in government officials getting paid amazing amounts of money from the highest bidders, resulting in the rich getting richer, and the poor being poorer.

This is not a solution.

You want to increase exports? Cut government borrowing. The US Dollars has no real value outside the US, except what it can buy in the US. Cut borrowing, so they can't buy US bonds with US dollars, and they will be force to buy more goods and services from the US.

Additionally, if you want stop importing so much, cut regulations and taxes even more, so that it more attractive to produce goods and services in the US.

Besides that, if you want to impose trade certificates, then you might as well just have tariffs. If the tariff is high enough, you'll have the same effect.

What difference do you think your import certificate will have? You'll just drive up costs on the poor and middle class, in either case.

 

[pknopp]

Under-regulated, under-thought capitalism allows for huge mistakes like this.

Another example of how those who refuse to understand that are opening the door for the socialists.

I must be missing something. Give me an example of "under-regulated" or "under-thought" capitalism.

Purdue Pharmacueticals.

Origins of an Epidemic: Purdue Pharma Knew Its Opioids Were Widely Abused

That is your example of unregulated capitalism?

Title 21 United States Code (USC) Controlled Substances Act - Section 801-971

Roughly 100 pages of laws. Doesn't include FDA regulations either.
That's just Federal Laws too, and doesn't include State laws.

This is exactly my point. You are pointing to the pharma industry, which is one of the most highly regulated industries in the country, and then claiming this is an example of unregulated capitalism.

And this is typical of all socialist views. You screw up a system, and then when your endless government regulations and controls end up blowing up the system, like the sub-prime crash, you try and blame it on Capitalism.

Well that doesn't work. Not for people who think, at least. You can't have a thousand laws on drugs, and then when something happens you don't like, blame it on the lack of regulations.

Further, it is most likely because of regulations and government, that we have the opioid epidemic. There are clear signs that Medicaid directly supported the crisis.

https://www.amazon.com/Dreamland-True-Americas-Opiate-Epidemic/dp/1620402505/&tag=ff0d01-20

Sam Quinones on Heroin, the Opioid Epidemic, and Dreamland - Econlib

The economist who wrote the book Dreamland, gave a podcast interview on this, on EconTalk. You can listen to it if you want.

Regardless, if you look at the evidence, Medicaid directly promoted the Opioid crisis.

By covering the cost of the drugs to poor people, who then turned around, and sold the drugs on the street, combined with Medicaid doctors who were willing to take cash payments from people they knew were selling the drugs illegally, Medicaid alone, created a vast market for prescription opioids.

And while you can claim, along with the fake news media outlets, that all the drug companies were doing thus and so..... the truth is, the drug companies had no real alternative.

You can sit here and say in retrospect that they should have prevented the sales of their pills.... but in an alternate reality, if the drug companies 20 years back had intentionally prevented sales of pills, and one single patient had been denied the drugs they wanted through Medicaid..... you people right here, right now, would be have a toddler level melt down about how the evil drug companies were refusing to supply needed medications to people.

And we know this, because you and those like you have already had such threads on this forum for other situations.

The drug companies, do not have company representatives at every doctors office in the country. They don't have evaluations for everyone single patient. Yes, they likely did know that their drugs were being sold, but without omniscience to know which patients were lying and selling, and which really needed it, there was nothing they could do. If they had attempted anything to stop drug sales, you people would have been all over them.

There were no regulations as to the amount of drugs they could push.

Sell some pot, go to prison. Sell opioids and maybe you'll get sued.

Our regulation system is broke. That isnt an argument for ending regulatory practices. It's an argument for fixing that.

Boeing put profits over safety. The FAA was willing to look the other way until they got embarrassed by the emails that got released.

Many heads should roll. People inside of Boeing should be in prison.

 

[Jarlaxle]

You're NOT this stupid. Just not possible.

And yet you are not able to do anything to back your claim. We still have large cars today.One of the most popular vehicles on the road today is the huge trucks. Overall trucks are even larger than they were in the past.

TRUCKS are not cars, you blithering idiot!

You still haven't backed up your position.

CAFE standards. Taxes on cars that USD more gas. (Trucks do not lay these taxes.)

Game, set, match. You lose.

Yes, we increased CAFE standards. That didn't ban big cars like you said so what are you saying? That you miss the days of smog filled cities?

Boy, you are NOT this thick. Just isn't possible. Fuel consumption has nothing to do with emissions. (Offhand, the Charger paid a gas guzzler tax...and is a tier 2 ULEV.)

 

[pknopp]

And yet you are not able to do anything to back your claim. We still have large cars today.One of the most popular vehicles on the road today is the huge trucks. Overall trucks are even larger than they were in the past.

TRUCKS are not cars, you blithering idiot!

You still haven't backed up your position.

CAFE standards. Taxes on cars that USD more gas. (Trucks do not lay these taxes.)

Game, set, match. You lose.

Yes, we increased CAFE standards. That didn't ban big cars like you said so what are you saying? That you miss the days of smog filled cities?

Boy, you are NOT this thick. Just isn't possible. Fuel consumption has nothing to do with emissions. (Offhand, the Charger paid a gas guzzler tax...and is a tier 2 ULEV.)

Since you were unable to provide any laws that banned big cars I had to assume you had another motive and took a guess.

Now, do you have an example of these laws or not?

 

[anynameyouwish]

We are so vulnerable. Look, China won’t even deliver masks to the USA manufactured by American owned companies.

What a colossal geo political blunder by some many stupid swamp creatures.

If China makes all of our shit, doesn’t that make us beholden to them? We can just tell them to pound sand. He rely on them.

So fucked.

TPP? So fucking stupid.

I sure hope you PROUDLY wear your MAGA hat....made in china.....

MAGA hats are not made in China. There are some cheap knockoff from China, but none of the MAGA hats are actually from China. I assume you know this? Or are you ignorant?

Trump's clothing line was. Just the same as he hired illegals.

Until that all became a campaign platform.

Sure. If I was Trump, I would have done the same, except for illegals.

If you can't make something profitable in the US, then you have to make it outside the US, or not make it. That's how that works. No one is going to make a product in the US that causes them to lose money, just so they can say it was made in the US.

Nevertheless, the MAGA hats were never made in China. Sorry. That's left-wing Jessie Smollett story telling.

But I have no problem hiring legal immigrants, or outsourcing to China or anywhere in general. It's up to you to not have a system the creates economic incentives to make stuff outside the US.

Only 15% of the products in the Trump store are made in the US


Only 15% of the products in the Trump store are made in the US
December 4, 2018
https://qz.com/author/jrohrlichqz/
By Justin Rohrlich
Geopolitics reporter

 

[anynameyouwish]

Under-regulated, under-thought capitalism allows for huge mistakes like this.

Another example of how those who refuse to understand that are opening the door for the socialists.

I must be missing something. Give me an example of "under-regulated" or "under-thought" capitalism.

"I must be missing something. Give me an example of "under-regulated" or "under-thought" capitalism."


coal miners living in shacks with their families, starving, getting black lung disease, dying in poverty, while the swells drink champagne and eat caviar!

 

[pknopp]

Under-regulated, under-thought capitalism allows for huge mistakes like this.

Another example of how those who refuse to understand that are opening the door for the socialists.

I must be missing something. Give me an example of "under-regulated" or "under-thought" capitalism.

"I must be missing something. Give me an example of "under-regulated" or "under-thought" capitalism."


coal miners living in shacks with their families, starving, getting black lung disease, dying in poverty, while the swells drink champagne and eat caviar!

To be fair, Don Blankenship did get a short sentence for killing 29 people.

 

[Likkmee]

https://www.agdaily.com/livestock/us-cattlemen-brazilian-beef/

 

[Andylusion]

We are so vulnerable. Look, China won’t even deliver masks to the USA manufactured by American owned companies.

What a colossal geo political blunder by some many stupid swamp creatures.

If China makes all of our shit, doesn’t that make us beholden to them? We can just tell them to pound sand. He rely on them.

So fucked.

TPP? So fucking stupid.

I sure hope you PROUDLY wear your MAGA hat....made in china.....

MAGA hats are not made in China. There are some cheap knockoff from China, but none of the MAGA hats are actually from China. I assume you know this? Or are you ignorant?

Trump's clothing line was. Just the same as he hired illegals.

Until that all became a campaign platform.

Sure. If I was Trump, I would have done the same, except for illegals.

If you can't make something profitable in the US, then you have to make it outside the US, or not make it. That's how that works. No one is going to make a product in the US that causes them to lose money, just so they can say it was made in the US.

Nevertheless, the MAGA hats were never made in China. Sorry. That's left-wing Jessie Smollett story telling.

But I have no problem hiring legal immigrants, or outsourcing to China or anywhere in general. It's up to you to not have a system the creates economic incentives to make stuff outside the US.

Trump now says that is bad for America.

I'm a conservative. Trump might be the best of two bad options, but I don't really care what he thinks on the matter.

 

[Andylusion]

TRUCKS are not cars, you blithering idiot!

You still haven't backed up your position.

CAFE standards. Taxes on cars that USD more gas. (Trucks do not lay these taxes.)

Game, set, match. You lose.

Yes, we increased CAFE standards. That didn't ban big cars like you said so what are you saying? That you miss the days of smog filled cities?

If you want a car from Ford, there will soon be only one: the Mustang

No, it doesn't "ban cars", it just makes it unprofitable to make them, and thus the number of cars made will drastically decline.

We have the old CAFE standards of decades, and I don't remember 'smog filled cities' during those decades.

So now you are just playing another Jessie Smollett fabricated story.

Cars from other countries must meet the same CAFE standards.

Ok? I'm not sure what you are implying from this. Yes I know imported cars have the same regulations. That doesn't change the fact that driving up the cost on low-value cars, makes it nearly impossible to build a low-cost car profitably inside the US.

What you are saying effectively is... there will still be low-cost cars, just not made in the US.

Are you ok with more jobs being moved outside the US, or not? Because that is the effect of your regulations.

 

[rightwinger]

Americans love buying cheap shit

 

[Andylusion]

So we should go downward in wages? We as a nation should accept lower wages? Seems backwards thinking. Then prices of things have to drop big time. Otherwise people won't make enough to live paycheck to paycheck.

“Prosperity Through Lower Wages!”

Well yes.... if lower wages results in the creation of more jobs, and the creation of more jobs results in more people being employed, instead of unemployed... then yes that results in prosperity.

Again... are you going to be more prosperous earning Zero... or earning $5/hour? The answer is of course, earning $5/hour will be more prosperous than earning zero.

Equally, for the nation as a whole, every job in the private sector, is a productive job, or it wouldn't exist. Production creates wealth. Again, if you produced something of zero value, no one would hire you.

So increased production, means that the total wealth produced in the entire country, which benefits all of us, makes us more prosperous.

So again... more prosperity.

Now that does not mean we want people to earn less. I'd rather they earn more. And the way you earn more, is by gaining skills and abilities, experience and talent that allows you to produce more wealth.

For example years ago I had a friend who worked at Walmart. She used Walmarts tuition reimbursement program, to get a degree in construction engineering, and now has a job doing that, which of course pays more.

The solution to lower wages, is to have more people like her, who get jobs, and use those jobs to advance their skills the way she did.

The solution is not to mandate higher wages for low skill work, which results in people like her being laid off, and then they can't get a degree or experience to advance their career.

That isn't how it works. People don't make $0. People get welfare.

Which is actually worse. Because you are paying to not produce wealth for the country, while they consume wealth for the country.

Welfare is paying money, to destroy the wealth of the country.

This is why welfare doesn't exist in Nordic countries for example, and why most don't have a minimum wage. Because they understand that working for anything, and producing wealth for the country, is better than paying people to not work, and destroying the wealth of the country.