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Yes, my example of videoing children is a bit extreme. That said, many of the auditors are purposely trying to provoke a response from LE. Sometimes the auditors go a bit too far IMO, even if it is within their legal rights to do so. They are not really there to simply film the location as much as they are there to goat some cop into making a bad decision.These auditors are filming mainly government functions. Those are the people we have the most right to watch. We pay their salary. Ya, not a good idea filming other people's kids that is a different story. As far as I am concerned most these auditors are performing a service to us. Some of these videos are not auditors they are filming chance encounters with the police where the police are abusing their power. Videos are the best way to keep this in check. Where I spend most my time right now the cops do a good job and are reasonable to deal with. How ever when I spent a lot of time in Columbus Ohio those ass holes were power tripping ass holes. Surprised we don't see more videos from there.
filming in public cant be determined to be disturbing people since its a 1st A protected activity
he has to be able to articulate the crime in question,, and as SCOTUS said any 1st A protected activity can not be a probable cause for detainment,,If a police officer reasonably believes an offense has been committed. In this case, the offense of disturbing the police, give the police officer the right, under law, to detain you for the purposes of getting your identity.
Now, let's say you don't agree with that (or you don't believe it is reasonable). Then, you have two choices. You can A) comply and make a complaint later. Or B) resist and face charges for resisting (as well as the original offense).
Either choice, you will be lawfully arrested.
If you make the decision to complain. You can bring a charge to court and let the judge decide -- not if you had the right to photograph -- if you could reasonably be said to be disturbing the peace. But, you can't accomplish that without originally complying with the police officer who detains you.
The problem with auditors / sovereign citizens (besides not really knowing the law) is that they believe they can resolve the issue solely by non-compliance. Sometimes, that will work. Sometimes the officer will be busy and their only goal is to get you to stop doing whatever it is you're doing. Just having the right to arrest you doesn't mean a police officer has to (unless you have committed a felony).
Perhaps part of a cops training should be the proper way to deal with an auditor that is trying to provoke him.
The cops should know their jobs. We have to know ours.Yes, my example of videoing children is a bit extreme. That said, many of the auditors are purposely trying to provoke a response from LE. Sometimes the auditors go a bit too far IMO, even if it is within their legal rights to do so. They are not really there to simply film the location as much as they are there to goat some cop into making a bad decision.
he has to be able to articulate the crime in question,, and as SCOTUS said any 1st A protected activity can not be a probable cause for detainment
I think many of these auditors are trying to get arrested. That said, cops often arrest people for "crimes" that they know will not stick. Arresting someone who is calmly and quieting videoing in a public area where there is no expectation of privacy would be quite a stretch of public disorderly conduct laws in and of itself. Is spending a night in jail worth it, even if the charges will be dropped?If a police officer reasonably believes an offense has been committed. In this case, the offense of disturbing the police, give the police officer the right, under law, to detain you for the purposes of getting your identity.
Now, let's say you don't agree with that (or you don't believe it is reasonable). Then, you have two choices. You can A) comply and make a complaint later. Or B) resist and face charges for resisting (as well as the original offense).
Either choice, you will be lawfully arrested.
If you make the decision to complain. You can bring a charge to court and let the judge decide -- not if you had the right to photograph -- if you could reasonably be said to be disturbing the peace. But, you can't accomplish that without originally complying with the police officer who detains you.
The problem with auditors / sovereign citizens (besides not really knowing the law) is that they believe they can resolve the issue solely by non-compliance. Sometimes, that will work. Sometimes the officer will be busy and their only goal is to get you to stop doing whatever it is you're doing. Just having the right to arrest you doesn't mean a police officer has to (unless you have committed a felony).
how on gods green earth can you compare 1st A auditors to sovereign citizens???The huge mistake that most auditors / sovereign citizens make is believing that a police interaction is a court of law. It isn't.
There is no requirement that a police officer convince you they are right in order to arrest you. They don't.
There is no requirement that a police officer engage in a legal argument with you in order to arrest you. They don't.
There is no requirement to seek approval from a supervising police officer in order to arrest you. There isn't.
No court expects a police officer to be a Constitutional lawyer.
The only requirement for a police officer to detain you in most circumstances is that he had a reasonable belief that you have committed an offense. Once a police officer has that reasonable belief, you can be legally detained.
In some circumstances, you can be detained without a reasonable suspicion, such as driving in a state that has "Implied Consent" laws. Those laws give police the right to stop you anytime you operate a motor vehicle on a public road.
Engaging in circular arguments or making a demand like, "I wasn't driving ... I was traveling" or, "Are you arresting me?" or, "I demand you call your sergeant", will only go on for so long before the police officer can reasonably say you failed to comply with his lawful order and use reasonable force to place you under arrest.
when charges are dropped law suits are made and payouts given at the tax payer expense,,I think many of these auditors are trying to get arrested. That said, cops often arrest people for "crimes" that they know will not stick. Arresting someone who is calmly and quieting videoing in a public area where there is no expectation of privacy would be quite a stretch of public disorderly conduct laws in and of itself. Is spending a night in jail worth it, even if the charges will be dropped?
Some of the auditors in the videos I've seen do want to be arrested IMO. It makes for more hits on their videos and has more potential for a payday law suite.when charges are dropped law suits are made and payouts given at the tax payer expense,,
real 1st A auditors dont want to be arrested ,, but if they are and bad cops are taken off the streets its a win for freedom,,
Arresting someone who is calmly and quieting videoing in a public area where there is no expectation of privacy would be quite a stretch of public disorderly conduct laws in and of itself.
telling a cop to arrest them doesnt mean they want arrested,, its them challenging the cop to committ to what they know is wrong and in most cases it makes the cop shut up and walk away,,Some of the auditors in the videos I've seen do want to be arrested IMO. It makes for more hits on their videos and has more potential for a payday law suite.
how on gods green earth can you compare 1st A auditors to sovereign citizens???
those are opposite side of the spectrum,,
the rest of your rant is just that,,
I think youre a nut job that doesnt know what hes talking about,,Actually, the use precisely the same tactics. They may have different motivations. But, from a tactical perspective, they are identical.
I think youre a nut job that doesnt know what hes talking about,,
save it spanky,,And that's fine. Like arguing with an auditor / sovereign citizen. Nothing is to be gained by allowing an argument to just spin its wheels.
I merely offer advice to any auditor / sovereign citizens who believe there are no consequences for continually attempting to goad police into a confrontation.
Nor should they find the time, with all the rapists and murderers that Democratic prosecutors are putting back on the streets. If they want to watch someone “in case” they commit a crime, one of those released criminals would be more productive.Yes, and this is where a cops judgement will come into play. There are cases where a cop, believing what is called "police presence" will work in his favor, will get himself into a situation where he is on shaky ground, legally speaking. The problem is, this will often work and later come back to bite them.
In this case, if there is someone filming children in a park and a police officer observes it, there really is no legal reason to stop that person. You could probably come up with one if you watched them long enough. But, no cop has the time to do that and a court would probably not consider that reasonable.
Nope.However, if you have a couple of calls from upset parents (cell phones work both ways), and police are responding to those calls, then it is reasonable to say that peace has been disturbed and you're on very strong footing to confirm the identity of all involved.
That’s why police have a saying, “you can beat the rap, but you can’t beat the ride.” In other words, they see themselves as judge and jury except that night in jail is the only penalty they can mete out.I think many of these auditors are trying to get arrested. That said, cops often arrest people for "crimes" that they know will not stick. Arresting someone who is calmly and quieting videoing in a public area where there is no expectation of privacy would be quite a stretch of public disorderly conduct laws in and of itself. Is spending a night in jail worth it, even if the charges will be dropped?
