Vietnam War and question for the boomer generation

[JustAGuy1]

Americans were willing to die rather than allow communists to enslave a peaceful ally who wanted no part of them. The idea of a few million dead communists just gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling. They killed my friends. You think I should kiss them?

50 years of history has shown that not to be true. The propaganda at the time talked about communist enslavement and mass murder. The fact is that the average Vietnamese person did better than they did under French or American occupation.
Yes, 60,000 Americans died rather than allow Vietnam to become communist. The few million “dead communists” you talk about were average civilians trying to survive in the midst of an unnecessary war.
Your friends died because of war hawks willing to sacrifice them for political and financial reasons

What a piece of crap liar you are. NOBODY did "better" under the Communists you idiot.

History says you are wrong

Vietnam went from peasants working rice fields in extreme poverty to one of the fastest growing economies in the world.

In 1986, Vietnam launched a political and economic renewal campaign (Đổi Mới) that introduced reforms to facilitate the transition from a centralized economy to a "socialist-oriented market economy". Đổi Mới combined government planning with free-marketincentives and encouraged the establishment of private businesses and foreign investment, including foreign-owned enterprises. FBy the late 1990s, the success of the business and agricultural reforms ushered in under Đổi Mới was evident. More than 30,000 private businesses had been created, the economy was growing at an annual rate of more than 7%, and poverty was nearly halved.[35]

Throughout the 1990s, exports increased by as much as 20% to 30% in some years. In 1999, exports accounted for 40% of GDP, an impressive performance in the midst of the economic crisis that hit other countries in Asia

Economy of Vietnam - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Look dumbass, we're talking about Vietnam in the 60's, they purged the population of MILLIONS of people. God you're an idiot. How do you even look at yourself in the mirror? Who defends Communism.

 

[9thIDdoc]

Americans were willing to die rather than allow communists to enslave a peaceful ally who wanted no part of them. The idea of a few million dead communists just gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling. They killed my friends. You think I should kiss them?

50 years of history has shown that not to be true. The propaganda at the time talked about communist enslavement and mass murder. The fact is that the average Vietnamese person did better than they did under French or American occupation.
Yes, 60,000 Americans died rather than allow Vietnam to become communist. The few million “dead communists” you talk about were average civilians trying to survive in the midst of an unnecessary war.
Your friends died because of war hawks willing to sacrifice them for political and financial reasons

What a piece of crap liar you are. NOBODY did "better" under the Communists you idiot.

History says you are wrong

Vietnam went from peasants working rice fields in extreme poverty to one of the fastest growing economies in the world.

In 1986, Vietnam launched a political and economic renewal campaign (Đổi Mới) that introduced reforms to facilitate the transition from a centralized economy to a "socialist-oriented market economy". Đổi Mới combined government planning with free-marketincentives and encouraged the establishment of private businesses and foreign investment, including foreign-owned enterprises. FBy the late 1990s, the success of the business and agricultural reforms ushered in under Đổi Mới was evident. More than 30,000 private businesses had been created, the economy was growing at an annual rate of more than 7%, and poverty was nearly halved.[35]

Throughout the 1990s, exports increased by as much as 20% to 30% in some years. In 1999, exports accounted for 40% of GDP, an impressive performance in the midst of the economic crisis that hit other countries in Asia

Economy of Vietnam - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Communist masters benefit from the economy. Are the people (those who weren't slaughtered by those same masters) any happier or better off? But you wouldn't know or care.

 

[rightwinger]

Americans were willing to die rather than allow communists to enslave a peaceful ally who wanted no part of them. The idea of a few million dead communists just gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling. They killed my friends. You think I should kiss them?

50 years of history has shown that not to be true. The propaganda at the time talked about communist enslavement and mass murder. The fact is that the average Vietnamese person did better than they did under French or American occupation.
Yes, 60,000 Americans died rather than allow Vietnam to become communist. The few million “dead communists” you talk about were average civilians trying to survive in the midst of an unnecessary war.
Your friends died because of war hawks willing to sacrifice them for political and financial reasons

What a piece of crap liar you are. NOBODY did "better" under the Communists you idiot.

History says you are wrong

Vietnam went from peasants working rice fields in extreme poverty to one of the fastest growing economies in the world.

In 1986, Vietnam launched a political and economic renewal campaign (Đổi Mới) that introduced reforms to facilitate the transition from a centralized economy to a "socialist-oriented market economy". Đổi Mới combined government planning with free-marketincentives and encouraged the establishment of private businesses and foreign investment, including foreign-owned enterprises. FBy the late 1990s, the success of the business and agricultural reforms ushered in under Đổi Mới was evident. More than 30,000 private businesses had been created, the economy was growing at an annual rate of more than 7%, and poverty was nearly halved.[35]

Throughout the 1990s, exports increased by as much as 20% to 30% in some years. In 1999, exports accounted for 40% of GDP, an impressive performance in the midst of the economic crisis that hit other countries in Asia

Economy of Vietnam - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Look dumbass, we're talking about Vietnam in the 60's, they purged the population of MILLIONS of people. God you're an idiot. How do you even look at yourself in the mirror? Who defends Communism.

The senseless war killed millions of civilians just to keep them from turning Communist

History has shown that Vietnam did just fine under Communism. Much better than under French and US occupation

 

[JustAGuy1]

Americans were willing to die rather than allow communists to enslave a peaceful ally who wanted no part of them. The idea of a few million dead communists just gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling. They killed my friends. You think I should kiss them?

50 years of history has shown that not to be true. The propaganda at the time talked about communist enslavement and mass murder. The fact is that the average Vietnamese person did better than they did under French or American occupation.
Yes, 60,000 Americans died rather than allow Vietnam to become communist. The few million “dead communists” you talk about were average civilians trying to survive in the midst of an unnecessary war.
Your friends died because of war hawks willing to sacrifice them for political and financial reasons

What a piece of crap liar you are. NOBODY did "better" under the Communists you idiot.

History says you are wrong

Vietnam went from peasants working rice fields in extreme poverty to one of the fastest growing economies in the world.

In 1986, Vietnam launched a political and economic renewal campaign (Đổi Mới) that introduced reforms to facilitate the transition from a centralized economy to a "socialist-oriented market economy". Đổi Mới combined government planning with free-marketincentives and encouraged the establishment of private businesses and foreign investment, including foreign-owned enterprises. FBy the late 1990s, the success of the business and agricultural reforms ushered in under Đổi Mới was evident. More than 30,000 private businesses had been created, the economy was growing at an annual rate of more than 7%, and poverty was nearly halved.[35]

Throughout the 1990s, exports increased by as much as 20% to 30% in some years. In 1999, exports accounted for 40% of GDP, an impressive performance in the midst of the economic crisis that hit other countries in Asia

Economy of Vietnam - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Look dumbass, we're talking about Vietnam in the 60's, they purged the population of MILLIONS of people. God you're an idiot. How do you even look at yourself in the mirror? Who defends Communism.

The senseless war killed millions of civilians just to keep them from turning Communist

History has shown that Vietnam did just fine under Communism. Much better than under French and US occupation

You can't move the goal posts, it will NEVER work with me.

Look dumbass, we're talking about Vietnam in the 60's, they purged the population of MILLIONS of people. God you're an idiot. How do you even look at yourself in the mirror? Who defends Communism. You're sick, very sick.

 

[rightwinger]

The Communist masters benefit from the economy. Are the people (those who weren't slaughtered by those same masters) any happier or better off? But you wouldn't know or care

Yes
The people are infinitely better off than under 25 years of war and under colonial French

Yes, the standard of living is much better in Vietnam

 

[rightwinger]

Americans were willing to die rather than allow communists to enslave a peaceful ally who wanted no part of them. The idea of a few million dead communists just gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling. They killed my friends. You think I should kiss them?

50 years of history has shown that not to be true. The propaganda at the time talked about communist enslavement and mass murder. The fact is that the average Vietnamese person did better than they did under French or American occupation.
Yes, 60,000 Americans died rather than allow Vietnam to become communist. The few million “dead communists” you talk about were average civilians trying to survive in the midst of an unnecessary war.
Your friends died because of war hawks willing to sacrifice them for political and financial reasons

What a piece of crap liar you are. NOBODY did "better" under the Communists you idiot.

History says you are wrong

Vietnam went from peasants working rice fields in extreme poverty to one of the fastest growing economies in the world.

In 1986, Vietnam launched a political and economic renewal campaign (Đổi Mới) that introduced reforms to facilitate the transition from a centralized economy to a "socialist-oriented market economy". Đổi Mới combined government planning with free-marketincentives and encouraged the establishment of private businesses and foreign investment, including foreign-owned enterprises. FBy the late 1990s, the success of the business and agricultural reforms ushered in under Đổi Mới was evident. More than 30,000 private businesses had been created, the economy was growing at an annual rate of more than 7%, and poverty was nearly halved.[35]

Throughout the 1990s, exports increased by as much as 20% to 30% in some years. In 1999, exports accounted for 40% of GDP, an impressive performance in the midst of the economic crisis that hit other countries in Asia

Economy of Vietnam - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Look dumbass, we're talking about Vietnam in the 60's, they purged the population of MILLIONS of people. God you're an idiot. How do you even look at yourself in the mirror? Who defends Communism.

The senseless war killed millions of civilians just to keep them from turning Communist

History has shown that Vietnam did just fine under Communism. Much better than under French and US occupation

You can't move the goal posts, it will NEVER work with me.

Look dumbass, we're talking about Vietnam in the 60's, they purged the population of MILLIONS of people. God you're an idiot. How do you even look at yourself in the mirror? Who defends Communism. You're sick, very sick.

The war purged millions of people
The point I have been making throughout this thread is that interference by the French and the US led to millions of unnecessary deaths over 25 years of war.

Also that the threat of the evils that would happen from them turning Commie turned out to be grossly exaggerated and Vietnam did just fine without their Western masters

 

[JustAGuy1]

Americans were willing to die rather than allow communists to enslave a peaceful ally who wanted no part of them. The idea of a few million dead communists just gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling. They killed my friends. You think I should kiss them?

50 years of history has shown that not to be true. The propaganda at the time talked about communist enslavement and mass murder. The fact is that the average Vietnamese person did better than they did under French or American occupation.
Yes, 60,000 Americans died rather than allow Vietnam to become communist. The few million “dead communists” you talk about were average civilians trying to survive in the midst of an unnecessary war.
Your friends died because of war hawks willing to sacrifice them for political and financial reasons

What a piece of crap liar you are. NOBODY did "better" under the Communists you idiot.

History says you are wrong

Vietnam went from peasants working rice fields in extreme poverty to one of the fastest growing economies in the world.

In 1986, Vietnam launched a political and economic renewal campaign (Đổi Mới) that introduced reforms to facilitate the transition from a centralized economy to a "socialist-oriented market economy". Đổi Mới combined government planning with free-marketincentives and encouraged the establishment of private businesses and foreign investment, including foreign-owned enterprises. FBy the late 1990s, the success of the business and agricultural reforms ushered in under Đổi Mới was evident. More than 30,000 private businesses had been created, the economy was growing at an annual rate of more than 7%, and poverty was nearly halved.[35]

Throughout the 1990s, exports increased by as much as 20% to 30% in some years. In 1999, exports accounted for 40% of GDP, an impressive performance in the midst of the economic crisis that hit other countries in Asia

Economy of Vietnam - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Look dumbass, we're talking about Vietnam in the 60's, they purged the population of MILLIONS of people. God you're an idiot. How do you even look at yourself in the mirror? Who defends Communism.

The senseless war killed millions of civilians just to keep them from turning Communist

History has shown that Vietnam did just fine under Communism. Much better than under French and US occupation

You can't move the goal posts, it will NEVER work with me.

Look dumbass, we're talking about Vietnam in the 60's, they purged the population of MILLIONS of people. God you're an idiot. How do you even look at yourself in the mirror? Who defends Communism. You're sick, very sick.

The war purged millions of people
The point I have been making throughout this thread is that interference by the French and the US led to millions of unnecessary deaths over 25 years of war.

Also that the threat of the evils that would happen from them turning Commie turned out to be grossly exaggerated and Vietnam did just fine without their Western masters

Tell that to the MILLIONS that they purged junior. You are a disgusting human.

 

[Dayton3]

Consc

Americans were willing to die rather than allow communists to enslave a peaceful ally who wanted no part of them.

Most were enslaved via the draft and expected to needlessly give their lives for a meaningless military escapade.

The thing I’m most proud of my Boomer Generation doing was getting rid of the the draft.

Nobody has gotten rid of the draft. It's just not presently being used. Doesn't mean it won't be back in use tomorrow or fifteen minutes from now.

There would be hell to pay if they even tried to bring it back,
No Presidential candidate could get away with supporting the draft

People said the same thing last time. Then they drafted me. Tends to make people a bit skeptical.

The nature of military service has changed in the last 50 years.
It s not as labor intensive and is more specialized and high skilled
A Volunteer service is optimal

What changes in the military is peacetime vs wartime. We have had a basically peacetime military since Vietnam. But you forget that highly skilled/trained people were prime targets of the draft and will be again. Those folks tend to be highly successful and well paid in cushy civilian employment. Do you honestly think they are going to run out and enlist for a drastic cut in pay, and horrible living conditions away from their loved ones (to possibly never see them again)? Should war come our more effeminate soldiers will be leaving the military post haste and will need to be replaced. I am-and always have been-against the draft. Nations that require slave armies to exist simply don't deserve to. If citizens are unwilling to attend to the duties and responsibilities of citizenship they deserve to become slaves to whoever will take them.

Conscription is NOT SLAVERY. You also forget (in the United States) the relationship between conscription and volunteering. That is historically a substantial number of Americans volunteered for service in part due to the existence of a draft so they would have some control over their fates.

I forget nothing. You forget that I've been there; done that and paid attention. I received my draft notice but enlisted for the very reason you state. I suspected I might be allergic to assorted chunks of metal penetrating my body. I was offered my choice of Army schools based on my scores on entrance testing but was required to commit to an additional 1-2 years service. I signed up and-following basic training-was indeed transported to my chosen school where I was promptly informed that the Army had completed it's contract by sending me to the school. I could be reassigned at any time at the army's discretion for any reason. Make no mistake, when you enter the military (government) owns you and retains the option to reclaim you for decades after you "get out". If you willfully or negligently damage yourself you will be charged with "Damaging Government Property" and penalized. Elsewhere slaves are considered an investment and are reasonably housed and fed but, as in other forms of slavery, in the military if you prove to be more a liability than an asset seriously bad things will happen to you which may include death or dismemberment.
Don't misunderstand. I do believe citizenship comes with a duty to serve the Nation if needed and would do it again if necessary and am proud of, and pleased with, my service. But signing up should always be optional rather than forced. If America is to be a free country it must not do so through slavery.

I forgot nothing. I simply did not pay attention with you to begin with.

Actually World War Two had higher percentage of draftees serving in the military than Vietnam did.

Would you suggest the U.S. should not have drafted so many millions in World War Two? Wasn't it worth it to help defeat Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan?

 

[Mr Natural]

Wasn't it worth it to help defeat Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan?

Germany and Japan were a threat to the world.

Vietnam was not.

 

[JustAGuy1]

Wasn't it worth it to help defeat Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan?

Germany and Japan were a threat to the world.

Vietnam was not.

It was all about the money.

 

[Desperado]

Consc

Americans were willing to die rather than allow communists to enslave a peaceful ally who wanted no part of them.

Most were enslaved via the draft and expected to needlessly give their lives for a meaningless military escapade.

The thing I’m most proud of my Boomer Generation doing was getting rid of the the draft.

Nobody has gotten rid of the draft. It's just not presently being used. Doesn't mean it won't be back in use tomorrow or fifteen minutes from now.

There would be hell to pay if they even tried to bring it back,
No Presidential candidate could get away with supporting the draft

People said the same thing last time. Then they drafted me. Tends to make people a bit skeptical.

The nature of military service has changed in the last 50 years.
It s not as labor intensive and is more specialized and high skilled
A Volunteer service is optimal

What changes in the military is peacetime vs wartime. We have had a basically peacetime military since Vietnam. But you forget that highly skilled/trained people were prime targets of the draft and will be again. Those folks tend to be highly successful and well paid in cushy civilian employment. Do you honestly think they are going to run out and enlist for a drastic cut in pay, and horrible living conditions away from their loved ones (to possibly never see them again)? Should war come our more effeminate soldiers will be leaving the military post haste and will need to be replaced. I am-and always have been-against the draft. Nations that require slave armies to exist simply don't deserve to. If citizens are unwilling to attend to the duties and responsibilities of citizenship they deserve to become slaves to whoever will take them.

Conscription is NOT SLAVERY. You also forget (in the United States) the relationship between conscription and volunteering. That is historically a substantial number of Americans volunteered for service in part due to the existence of a draft so they would have some control over their fates.

I forget nothing. You forget that I've been there; done that and paid attention. I received my draft notice but enlisted for the very reason you state. I suspected I might be allergic to assorted chunks of metal penetrating my body. I was offered my choice of Army schools based on my scores on entrance testing but was required to commit to an additional 1-2 years service. I signed up and-following basic training-was indeed transported to my chosen school where I was promptly informed that the Army had completed it's contract by sending me to the school. I could be reassigned at any time at the army's discretion for any reason. Make no mistake, when you enter the military (government) owns you and retains the option to reclaim you for decades after you "get out". If you willfully or negligently damage yourself you will be charged with "Damaging Government Property" and penalized. Elsewhere slaves are considered an investment and are reasonably housed and fed but, as in other forms of slavery, in the military if you prove to be more a liability than an asset seriously bad things will happen to you which may include death or dismemberment.
Don't misunderstand. I do believe citizenship comes with a duty to serve the Nation if needed and would do it again if necessary and am proud of, and pleased with, my service. But signing up should always be optional rather than forced. If America is to be a free country it must not do so through slavery.

I forgot nothing. I simply did not pay attention with you to begin with.

Actually World War Two had higher percentage of draftees serving in the military than Vietnam did.

Would you suggest the U.S. should not have drafted so many millions in World War Two? Wasn't it worth it to help defeat Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan?

Are you actually comparing WW2 to Vietnam?
Was it worth all the American Dead and wounded to help South Vietnam in their civil war?

 

[rightwinger]

Americans were willing to die rather than allow communists to enslave a peaceful ally who wanted no part of them. The idea of a few million dead communists just gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling. They killed my friends. You think I should kiss them?

50 years of history has shown that not to be true. The propaganda at the time talked about communist enslavement and mass murder. The fact is that the average Vietnamese person did better than they did under French or American occupation.
Yes, 60,000 Americans died rather than allow Vietnam to become communist. The few million “dead communists” you talk about were average civilians trying to survive in the midst of an unnecessary war.
Your friends died because of war hawks willing to sacrifice them for political and financial reasons

What a piece of crap liar you are. NOBODY did "better" under the Communists you idiot.

History says you are wrong

Vietnam went from peasants working rice fields in extreme poverty to one of the fastest growing economies in the world.

In 1986, Vietnam launched a political and economic renewal campaign (Đổi Mới) that introduced reforms to facilitate the transition from a centralized economy to a "socialist-oriented market economy". Đổi Mới combined government planning with free-marketincentives and encouraged the establishment of private businesses and foreign investment, including foreign-owned enterprises. FBy the late 1990s, the success of the business and agricultural reforms ushered in under Đổi Mới was evident. More than 30,000 private businesses had been created, the economy was growing at an annual rate of more than 7%, and poverty was nearly halved.[35]

Throughout the 1990s, exports increased by as much as 20% to 30% in some years. In 1999, exports accounted for 40% of GDP, an impressive performance in the midst of the economic crisis that hit other countries in Asia

Economy of Vietnam - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Look dumbass, we're talking about Vietnam in the 60's, they purged the population of MILLIONS of people. God you're an idiot. How do you even look at yourself in the mirror? Who defends Communism.

The senseless war killed millions of civilians just to keep them from turning Communist

History has shown that Vietnam did just fine under Communism. Much better than under French and US occupation

You can't move the goal posts, it will NEVER work with me.

Look dumbass, we're talking about Vietnam in the 60's, they purged the population of MILLIONS of people. God you're an idiot. How do you even look at yourself in the mirror? Who defends Communism. You're sick, very sick.

The war purged millions of people
The point I have been making throughout this thread is that interference by the French and the US led to millions of unnecessary deaths over 25 years of war.

Also that the threat of the evils that would happen from them turning Commie turned out to be grossly exaggerated and Vietnam did just fine without their Western masters

Tell that to the MILLIONS that they purged junior. You are a disgusting human.

Get your Google out and......Show me where Vietnam purged MILLIONS of people

 

[Dayton3]

Wasn't it worth it to help defeat Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan?

Germany and Japan were a threat to the world.

Vietnam was not.

It was all about the money.

Prove it by citing unbiased sources please.

 

[Dayton3]

A

Consc

Americans were willing to die rather than allow communists to enslave a peaceful ally who wanted no part of them.

Most were enslaved via the draft and expected to needlessly give their lives for a meaningless military escapade.

The thing I’m most proud of my Boomer Generation doing was getting rid of the the draft.

Nobody has gotten rid of the draft. It's just not presently being used. Doesn't mean it won't be back in use tomorrow or fifteen minutes from now.

There would be hell to pay if they even tried to bring it back,
No Presidential candidate could get away with supporting the draft

People said the same thing last time. Then they drafted me. Tends to make people a bit skeptical.

The nature of military service has changed in the last 50 years.
It s not as labor intensive and is more specialized and high skilled
A Volunteer service is optimal

What changes in the military is peacetime vs wartime. We have had a basically peacetime military since Vietnam. But you forget that highly skilled/trained people were prime targets of the draft and will be again. Those folks tend to be highly successful and well paid in cushy civilian employment. Do you honestly think they are going to run out and enlist for a drastic cut in pay, and horrible living conditions away from their loved ones (to possibly never see them again)? Should war come our more effeminate soldiers will be leaving the military post haste and will need to be replaced. I am-and always have been-against the draft. Nations that require slave armies to exist simply don't deserve to. If citizens are unwilling to attend to the duties and responsibilities of citizenship they deserve to become slaves to whoever will take them.

Conscription is NOT SLAVERY. You also forget (in the United States) the relationship between conscription and volunteering. That is historically a substantial number of Americans volunteered for service in part due to the existence of a draft so they would have some control over their fates.

I forget nothing. You forget that I've been there; done that and paid attention. I received my draft notice but enlisted for the very reason you state. I suspected I might be allergic to assorted chunks of metal penetrating my body. I was offered my choice of Army schools based on my scores on entrance testing but was required to commit to an additional 1-2 years service. I signed up and-following basic training-was indeed transported to my chosen school where I was promptly informed that the Army had completed it's contract by sending me to the school. I could be reassigned at any time at the army's discretion for any reason. Make no mistake, when you enter the military (government) owns you and retains the option to reclaim you for decades after you "get out". If you willfully or negligently damage yourself you will be charged with "Damaging Government Property" and penalized. Elsewhere slaves are considered an investment and are reasonably housed and fed but, as in other forms of slavery, in the military if you prove to be more a liability than an asset seriously bad things will happen to you which may include death or dismemberment.
Don't misunderstand. I do believe citizenship comes with a duty to serve the Nation if needed and would do it again if necessary and am proud of, and pleased with, my service. But signing up should always be optional rather than forced. If America is to be a free country it must not do so through slavery.

I forgot nothing. I simply did not pay attention with you to begin with.

Actually World War Two had higher percentage of draftees serving in the military than Vietnam did.

Would you suggest the U.S. should not have drafted so many millions in World War Two? Wasn't it worth it to help defeat Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan?

Are you actually comparing WW2 to Vietnam?
Was it worth all the American Dead and wounded to help South Vietnam in their civil war?

Absolutely. And there was no civil war in South Vietnam after the Viet Cong were destroyed effectively in 1968.

South Vietnam did not fall to a bunch of guerrillas in pajamas. South Vietnam fell to massive North Vietnamese columns of tanks featuring more armored vehicles than the Nazis used to conquer France in 1940.

 

[Dayton3]

Americans were willing to die rather than allow communists to enslave a peaceful ally who wanted no part of them. The idea of a few million dead communists just gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling. They killed my friends. You think I should kiss them?

50 years of history has shown that not to be true. The propaganda at the time talked about communist enslavement and mass murder. The fact is that the average Vietnamese person did better than they did under French or American occupation.
Yes, 60,000 Americans died rather than allow Vietnam to become communist. The few million “dead communists” you talk about were average civilians trying to survive in the midst of an unnecessary war.
Your friends died because of war hawks willing to sacrifice them for political and financial reasons

What a piece of crap liar you are. NOBODY did "better" under the Communists you idiot.

History says you are wrong

Vietnam went from peasants working rice fields in extreme poverty to one of the fastest growing economies in the world.

In 1986, Vietnam launched a political and economic renewal campaign (Đổi Mới) that introduced reforms to facilitate the transition from a centralized economy to a "socialist-oriented market economy". Đổi Mới combined government planning with free-marketincentives and encouraged the establishment of private businesses and foreign investment, including foreign-owned enterprises. FBy the late 1990s, the success of the business and agricultural reforms ushered in under Đổi Mới was evident. More than 30,000 private businesses had been created, the economy was growing at an annual rate of more than 7%, and poverty was nearly halved.[35]

Throughout the 1990s, exports increased by as much as 20% to 30% in some years. In 1999, exports accounted for 40% of GDP, an impressive performance in the midst of the economic crisis that hit other countries in Asia

Economy of Vietnam - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Look dumbass, we're talking about Vietnam in the 60's, they purged the population of MILLIONS of people. God you're an idiot. How do you even look at yourself in the mirror? Who defends Communism.

The senseless war killed millions of civilians just to keep them from turning Communist

History has shown that Vietnam did just fine under Communism. Much better than under French and US occupation

You can't move the goal posts, it will NEVER work with me.

Look dumbass, we're talking about Vietnam in the 60's, they purged the population of MILLIONS of people. God you're an idiot. How do you even look at yourself in the mirror? Who defends Communism. You're sick, very sick.

The war purged millions of people
The point I have been making throughout this thread is that interference by the French and the US led to millions of unnecessary deaths over 25 years of war.

Also that the threat of the evils that would happen from them turning Commie turned out to be grossly exaggerated and Vietnam did just fine without their Western masters

Tell that to the MILLIONS that they purged junior. You are a disgusting human.

Get your Google out and......Show me where Vietnam purged MILLIONS of people

The book "The Black Book of Communism" indicates that. And it was exhaustively researched.

 

[JustAGuy1]

Americans were willing to die rather than allow communists to enslave a peaceful ally who wanted no part of them. The idea of a few million dead communists just gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling. They killed my friends. You think I should kiss them?

50 years of history has shown that not to be true. The propaganda at the time talked about communist enslavement and mass murder. The fact is that the average Vietnamese person did better than they did under French or American occupation.
Yes, 60,000 Americans died rather than allow Vietnam to become communist. The few million “dead communists” you talk about were average civilians trying to survive in the midst of an unnecessary war.
Your friends died because of war hawks willing to sacrifice them for political and financial reasons

What a piece of crap liar you are. NOBODY did "better" under the Communists you idiot.

History says you are wrong

Vietnam went from peasants working rice fields in extreme poverty to one of the fastest growing economies in the world.

In 1986, Vietnam launched a political and economic renewal campaign (Đổi Mới) that introduced reforms to facilitate the transition from a centralized economy to a "socialist-oriented market economy". Đổi Mới combined government planning with free-marketincentives and encouraged the establishment of private businesses and foreign investment, including foreign-owned enterprises. FBy the late 1990s, the success of the business and agricultural reforms ushered in under Đổi Mới was evident. More than 30,000 private businesses had been created, the economy was growing at an annual rate of more than 7%, and poverty was nearly halved.[35]

Throughout the 1990s, exports increased by as much as 20% to 30% in some years. In 1999, exports accounted for 40% of GDP, an impressive performance in the midst of the economic crisis that hit other countries in Asia

Economy of Vietnam - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Look dumbass, we're talking about Vietnam in the 60's, they purged the population of MILLIONS of people. God you're an idiot. How do you even look at yourself in the mirror? Who defends Communism.

The senseless war killed millions of civilians just to keep them from turning Communist

History has shown that Vietnam did just fine under Communism. Much better than under French and US occupation

You can't move the goal posts, it will NEVER work with me.

Look dumbass, we're talking about Vietnam in the 60's, they purged the population of MILLIONS of people. God you're an idiot. How do you even look at yourself in the mirror? Who defends Communism. You're sick, very sick.

The war purged millions of people
The point I have been making throughout this thread is that interference by the French and the US led to millions of unnecessary deaths over 25 years of war.

Also that the threat of the evils that would happen from them turning Commie turned out to be grossly exaggerated and Vietnam did just fine without their Western masters

Tell that to the MILLIONS that they purged junior. You are a disgusting human.

Get your Google out and......Show me where Vietnam purged MILLIONS of people

Just stop, you look like an ass here. The Vietnam War encompassed Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos. You REALLY want to try and make the point that there was no purge?

 

[rightwinger]

Americans were willing to die rather than allow communists to enslave a peaceful ally who wanted no part of them. The idea of a few million dead communists just gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling. They killed my friends. You think I should kiss them?

50 years of history has shown that not to be true. The propaganda at the time talked about communist enslavement and mass murder. The fact is that the average Vietnamese person did better than they did under French or American occupation.
Yes, 60,000 Americans died rather than allow Vietnam to become communist. The few million “dead communists” you talk about were average civilians trying to survive in the midst of an unnecessary war.
Your friends died because of war hawks willing to sacrifice them for political and financial reasons

What a piece of crap liar you are. NOBODY did "better" under the Communists you idiot.

History says you are wrong

Vietnam went from peasants working rice fields in extreme poverty to one of the fastest growing economies in the world.

In 1986, Vietnam launched a political and economic renewal campaign (Đổi Mới) that introduced reforms to facilitate the transition from a centralized economy to a "socialist-oriented market economy". Đổi Mới combined government planning with free-marketincentives and encouraged the establishment of private businesses and foreign investment, including foreign-owned enterprises. FBy the late 1990s, the success of the business and agricultural reforms ushered in under Đổi Mới was evident. More than 30,000 private businesses had been created, the economy was growing at an annual rate of more than 7%, and poverty was nearly halved.[35]

Throughout the 1990s, exports increased by as much as 20% to 30% in some years. In 1999, exports accounted for 40% of GDP, an impressive performance in the midst of the economic crisis that hit other countries in Asia

Economy of Vietnam - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Look dumbass, we're talking about Vietnam in the 60's, they purged the population of MILLIONS of people. God you're an idiot. How do you even look at yourself in the mirror? Who defends Communism.

The senseless war killed millions of civilians just to keep them from turning Communist

History has shown that Vietnam did just fine under Communism. Much better than under French and US occupation

You can't move the goal posts, it will NEVER work with me.

Look dumbass, we're talking about Vietnam in the 60's, they purged the population of MILLIONS of people. God you're an idiot. How do you even look at yourself in the mirror? Who defends Communism. You're sick, very sick.

The war purged millions of people
The point I have been making throughout this thread is that interference by the French and the US led to millions of unnecessary deaths over 25 years of war.

Also that the threat of the evils that would happen from them turning Commie turned out to be grossly exaggerated and Vietnam did just fine without their Western masters

Tell that to the MILLIONS that they purged junior. You are a disgusting human.

Get your Google out and......Show me where Vietnam purged MILLIONS of people

The book "The Black Book of Communism" indicates that. And it was exhaustively researched.

Show me where Vietnam purged MILLIONS of people

 

[rightwinger]

Americans were willing to die rather than allow communists to enslave a peaceful ally who wanted no part of them. The idea of a few million dead communists just gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling. They killed my friends. You think I should kiss them?

50 years of history has shown that not to be true. The propaganda at the time talked about communist enslavement and mass murder. The fact is that the average Vietnamese person did better than they did under French or American occupation.
Yes, 60,000 Americans died rather than allow Vietnam to become communist. The few million “dead communists” you talk about were average civilians trying to survive in the midst of an unnecessary war.
Your friends died because of war hawks willing to sacrifice them for political and financial reasons

What a piece of crap liar you are. NOBODY did "better" under the Communists you idiot.

History says you are wrong

Vietnam went from peasants working rice fields in extreme poverty to one of the fastest growing economies in the world.

In 1986, Vietnam launched a political and economic renewal campaign (Đổi Mới) that introduced reforms to facilitate the transition from a centralized economy to a "socialist-oriented market economy". Đổi Mới combined government planning with free-marketincentives and encouraged the establishment of private businesses and foreign investment, including foreign-owned enterprises. FBy the late 1990s, the success of the business and agricultural reforms ushered in under Đổi Mới was evident. More than 30,000 private businesses had been created, the economy was growing at an annual rate of more than 7%, and poverty was nearly halved.[35]

Throughout the 1990s, exports increased by as much as 20% to 30% in some years. In 1999, exports accounted for 40% of GDP, an impressive performance in the midst of the economic crisis that hit other countries in Asia

Economy of Vietnam - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Look dumbass, we're talking about Vietnam in the 60's, they purged the population of MILLIONS of people. God you're an idiot. How do you even look at yourself in the mirror? Who defends Communism.

The senseless war killed millions of civilians just to keep them from turning Communist

History has shown that Vietnam did just fine under Communism. Much better than under French and US occupation

You can't move the goal posts, it will NEVER work with me.

Look dumbass, we're talking about Vietnam in the 60's, they purged the population of MILLIONS of people. God you're an idiot. How do you even look at yourself in the mirror? Who defends Communism. You're sick, very sick.

The war purged millions of people
The point I have been making throughout this thread is that interference by the French and the US led to millions of unnecessary deaths over 25 years of war.

Also that the threat of the evils that would happen from them turning Commie turned out to be grossly exaggerated and Vietnam did just fine without their Western masters

Tell that to the MILLIONS that they purged junior. You are a disgusting human.

Get your Google out and......Show me where Vietnam purged MILLIONS of people

Just stop, you look like an ass here. The Vietnam War encompassed Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos. You REALLY want to try and make the point that there was no purge?

Same challenge to you
Show me where Vietnam purged MILLIONS of people
Otherwise....YOU look like an ass

 

[Desperado]

A

Consc

Americans were willing to die rather than allow communists to enslave a peaceful ally who wanted no part of them.

Most were enslaved via the draft and expected to needlessly give their lives for a meaningless military escapade.

The thing I’m most proud of my Boomer Generation doing was getting rid of the the draft.

Nobody has gotten rid of the draft. It's just not presently being used. Doesn't mean it won't be back in use tomorrow or fifteen minutes from now.

There would be hell to pay if they even tried to bring it back,
No Presidential candidate could get away with supporting the draft

People said the same thing last time. Then they drafted me. Tends to make people a bit skeptical.

The nature of military service has changed in the last 50 years.
It s not as labor intensive and is more specialized and high skilled
A Volunteer service is optimal

What changes in the military is peacetime vs wartime. We have had a basically peacetime military since Vietnam. But you forget that highly skilled/trained people were prime targets of the draft and will be again. Those folks tend to be highly successful and well paid in cushy civilian employment. Do you honestly think they are going to run out and enlist for a drastic cut in pay, and horrible living conditions away from their loved ones (to possibly never see them again)? Should war come our more effeminate soldiers will be leaving the military post haste and will need to be replaced. I am-and always have been-against the draft. Nations that require slave armies to exist simply don't deserve to. If citizens are unwilling to attend to the duties and responsibilities of citizenship they deserve to become slaves to whoever will take them.

Conscription is NOT SLAVERY. You also forget (in the United States) the relationship between conscription and volunteering. That is historically a substantial number of Americans volunteered for service in part due to the existence of a draft so they would have some control over their fates.

I forget nothing. You forget that I've been there; done that and paid attention. I received my draft notice but enlisted for the very reason you state. I suspected I might be allergic to assorted chunks of metal penetrating my body. I was offered my choice of Army schools based on my scores on entrance testing but was required to commit to an additional 1-2 years service. I signed up and-following basic training-was indeed transported to my chosen school where I was promptly informed that the Army had completed it's contract by sending me to the school. I could be reassigned at any time at the army's discretion for any reason. Make no mistake, when you enter the military (government) owns you and retains the option to reclaim you for decades after you "get out". If you willfully or negligently damage yourself you will be charged with "Damaging Government Property" and penalized. Elsewhere slaves are considered an investment and are reasonably housed and fed but, as in other forms of slavery, in the military if you prove to be more a liability than an asset seriously bad things will happen to you which may include death or dismemberment.
Don't misunderstand. I do believe citizenship comes with a duty to serve the Nation if needed and would do it again if necessary and am proud of, and pleased with, my service. But signing up should always be optional rather than forced. If America is to be a free country it must not do so through slavery.

I forgot nothing. I simply did not pay attention with you to begin with.

Actually World War Two had higher percentage of draftees serving in the military than Vietnam did.

Would you suggest the U.S. should not have drafted so many millions in World War Two? Wasn't it worth it to help defeat Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan?

Are you actually comparing WW2 to Vietnam?
Was it worth all the American Dead and wounded to help South Vietnam in their civil war?

Absolutely. And there was no civil war in South Vietnam after the Viet Cong were destroyed effectively in 1968.

South Vietnam did not fall to a bunch of guerrillas in pajamas. South Vietnam fell to massive North Vietnamese columns of tanks featuring more armored vehicles than the Nazis used to conquer France in 1940.

You have proven you have no common sense.
The US should never have been involved in Vietnam in the first place.

 

[JustAGuy1]

Americans were willing to die rather than allow communists to enslave a peaceful ally who wanted no part of them. The idea of a few million dead communists just gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling. They killed my friends. You think I should kiss them?

50 years of history has shown that not to be true. The propaganda at the time talked about communist enslavement and mass murder. The fact is that the average Vietnamese person did better than they did under French or American occupation.
Yes, 60,000 Americans died rather than allow Vietnam to become communist. The few million “dead communists” you talk about were average civilians trying to survive in the midst of an unnecessary war.
Your friends died because of war hawks willing to sacrifice them for political and financial reasons

What a piece of crap liar you are. NOBODY did "better" under the Communists you idiot.

History says you are wrong

Vietnam went from peasants working rice fields in extreme poverty to one of the fastest growing economies in the world.

In 1986, Vietnam launched a political and economic renewal campaign (Đổi Mới) that introduced reforms to facilitate the transition from a centralized economy to a "socialist-oriented market economy". Đổi Mới combined government planning with free-marketincentives and encouraged the establishment of private businesses and foreign investment, including foreign-owned enterprises. FBy the late 1990s, the success of the business and agricultural reforms ushered in under Đổi Mới was evident. More than 30,000 private businesses had been created, the economy was growing at an annual rate of more than 7%, and poverty was nearly halved.[35]

Throughout the 1990s, exports increased by as much as 20% to 30% in some years. In 1999, exports accounted for 40% of GDP, an impressive performance in the midst of the economic crisis that hit other countries in Asia

Economy of Vietnam - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Look dumbass, we're talking about Vietnam in the 60's, they purged the population of MILLIONS of people. God you're an idiot. How do you even look at yourself in the mirror? Who defends Communism.

The senseless war killed millions of civilians just to keep them from turning Communist

History has shown that Vietnam did just fine under Communism. Much better than under French and US occupation

You can't move the goal posts, it will NEVER work with me.

Look dumbass, we're talking about Vietnam in the 60's, they purged the population of MILLIONS of people. God you're an idiot. How do you even look at yourself in the mirror? Who defends Communism. You're sick, very sick.

The war purged millions of people
The point I have been making throughout this thread is that interference by the French and the US led to millions of unnecessary deaths over 25 years of war.

Also that the threat of the evils that would happen from them turning Commie turned out to be grossly exaggerated and Vietnam did just fine without their Western masters

Tell that to the MILLIONS that they purged junior. You are a disgusting human.

Get your Google out and......Show me where Vietnam purged MILLIONS of people

Just stop, you look like an ass here. The Vietnam War encompassed Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos. You REALLY want to try and make the point that there was no purge?

Same challenge to you
Show me where Vietnam purged MILLIONS of people
Otherwise....YOU look like an ass

You aren't my league, first you use statistics from the 80's and 90's when we're talking about the 60's and early 70's, now you're dodging again.

The Vietnam War encompassed Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos. You REALLY want to try and make the point that there was no purge?