Vietnam War and question for the boomer generation

[Mac-7]

Do you even know what "Mujahedeen" is? It is Arabic for "Fighters of Justice", or essentially "Soldier". It is one who fights a "Holy War", in the case of Afghanistan it was a generic name for any who fought against the Soviets. It was not an organization, it was not a group, any time you hear that term think "Soldier", not "Army".

Oh, and there are Mujahedeen also fighting in Cyprus, Burma, the Philippines, former Yugoslavia, Nigeria, Somalia, China, and India. Do you mean to imply that the US has been funding all of them also?

No, the US did not aid him. The US sent them primarily once again to Ahmad Shah Massoud. A moderate Afghan, who was loyal to the King and came from a military background. And Bin Laden had hated him for decades before he had him assassinated. Because Massoud wanted to create a secular and free Afghanistan, while Bin Laden, Hekmatyar, and others wanted to create a strict Islamic State based upon Sharia Law.

So literally, what you are saying is that if the US was doing the same thing in Post-WWI Germany, they would be supporting both the Communists and the Fascists, as both were trying to overthrow the Weimar Republic.

Wow, the lack of understanding of anything is simply amazing. As I said, I can only assume you are a racist by how you oversimply everything to such a degree. And I guess you see all Muslims as simply "Arab Ragheads".

You peddle a lot of bullshit

The US funded anti soviet groups in afghanistan

Bin Laden was part of the anti soviet effort

 

[Soupnazi630]

Jane Fonda was right about her objection to the war
Millions died unnecessarily

Blame Bob Hope

She did not object to it.

She sided with the enemy which is not the same

 

[Mushroom]

You peddle a lot of bullshit

The US funded anti soviet groups in afghanistan

I never said they did. Logical fallacy here if you think that is the same as saying they funded all Anti-Soviet groups.

Basically, you are saying that all dogs are mammals, therefore all mammals are dogs.

The US did not fund all groups, only those that wanted to restore the old government.

Hell, I can tell you for a fact of another Mujahedeen Organization that the US never sent aid to. And that was the Progressive Youth Organization (PYO), a group that formed in 1965 and was declared an enemy even before the Soviets took over by the PDPA in 1978. They and others formed uneasy bonds with the various Mujahedeen groups, but the US never sent them aid either.

Why? Because the PYO was a radical Maoist Communist organization. Then in 2001 after the US invasion, they banded with other surviving Communist groups in the country to form the "Unitary Committee of Marxist-Leninist-Maoist Movement of Afghanistan", which, then dissolved after years of infighting in 2004.

And trust me, the PYO was indeed a Mujahedeen Organization in Afghanistan fighting the Soviets, and the US also never gave them aid. Their aid was funneled to them from China, while the "Arab Afghans" like Bin Laden got his aid from the Persian Gulf region.

Sheesh, it would be nice if you actually bothered to do some research, and not just ignorantly spout off such nonsense.

Once again, you show your lack of knowledge about almost anything is overwhelming. But what I just said is not "bullshit", it is a fact. And that Marxists and Maoists have been fighting each other for decades. But here, the following is a fascinating paper about the Maoists in Afghanistan.

https://www.afghanistan-analysts.org/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2012/09/NIbr-Maoists-final.pdf

 

[Mac-7]

I never said they did. Logical fallacy here if you think that is the same as saying they funded all Anti-Soviet groups.

Basically, you are saying that all dogs are mammals, therefore all mammals are dogs.

The US did not fund all groups, only those that wanted to restore the old government.

Hell, I can tell you for a fact of another Mujahedeen Organization that the US never sent aid to. And that was the Progressive Youth Organization (PYO), a group that formed in 1965 and was declared an enemy even before the Soviets took over by the PDPA in 1978. They and others formed uneasy bonds with the various Mujahedeen groups, but the US never sent them aid either.

Why? Because the PYO was a radical Maoist Communist organization. Then in 2001 after the US invasion, they banded with other surviving Communist groups in the country to form the "Unitary Committee of Marxist-Leninist-Maoist Movement of Afghanistan", which, then dissolved after years of infighting in 2004.

And trust me, the PYO was indeed a Mujahedeen Organization in Afghanistan fighting the Soviets, and the US also never gave them aid. Their aid was funneled to them from China, while the "Arab Afghans" like Bin Laden got his aid from the Persian Gulf region.

Sheesh, it would be nice if you actually bothered to do some research, and not just ignorantly spout off such nonsense.

Once again, you show your lack of knowledge about almost anything is overwhelming. But what I just said is not "bullshit", it is a fact. And that Marxists and Maoists have been fighting each other for decades. But here, the following is a fascinating paper about the Maoists in Afghanistan.

https://www.afghanistan-analysts.org/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2012/09/NIbr-Maoists-final.pdf

We have gotten far out in the weeds here

No one can say that none of the billions of dollars given away end up supplying bin Laden

In fact that was the left rallying cry during the Bush years that the US armed bin laden

No libs disputed that then but now apparently the storyline has evolved

 

[AZrailwhale]

You started on Fonda. I started watching the atrocities on my tv in my sitting room. Fonda did not come in for me till decades later and meant nothing.

I live in the UK. We were on marches all the time against your war in Vietnam. We were burning your flag regularly on our streets. There was one time the police were concerned what we were going to break into to your Embassy. The Vietnam war as far as I am aware, as I said before, was the one war where journalists had the ability to bring us the truth which we all saw in our sitting rooms thanks to the invention of televisions. What we saw disgusted us and bit by bit the people of the United States as well despite their people fighting in it. Wars could not be fought if the people knew what you were doing. Since then Governments particularly the US have made sure journalists do not have the ability to bring the truth to the people.

The “truth” you saw was carefully crafted by the journalists to show all the bad things that occurred on the ARVN/US side, none of the good and certainly none of the atrocities committed by the Viet Cong and PAVN. Both communist armies committed atrocities on a regular basis and they were a deliberate part of their battle plan. Look at their conduct in Hue during the Tet offensive for a clear example. The first thing they did while the battle was raging was to round up and kill Vietnamese civilians, often after torturing and raping them.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Like I said…..Cold War

We were supplying the South and supporting French Colonialism

During WWII, the French did nothing as the Japanese invaded. It was Vietnamese freedom fighters who fought the Japanese

After the war, instead of supporting those who fought for Freedom, we supported DeGaule and the French

What were the French supposed to do? Most of France was occupied and Vichy had to ask the Germans for permission to piss. The small Free French forces were committed to supporting the British and had no ability to invade India-China on their own. As for the US, Indo-China was far behind Japanese lines and Burma and the rest of South-East Asia was a British responsibility with only small American forces fighting under British command.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Why was there a Civil War?

Because there was supposed to be a free election five years after the French left

When it became obvious that Ho Chi Minh would win, the US would not allow an election

Ho would win because he had imprison or killed everyone who opposed him in the areas he controlled.

 

[rightwinger]

Ho would win because he had imprison or killed everyone who opposed him in the areas he controlled.

Actually he was very popular in Vietnam

The French Colonialists and their puppet regime were not

 

[Mushroom]

No one can say that none of the billions of dollars given away end up supplying bin Laden

Fine, prove it then.

Oh wait, you do not use proof. Just speculation.

Well, I think you may be taking money from aliens from Tau Ceti. Oh, I don't need proof, but surely you are because they only give money to humans. And you are human, therefore they gave you money.

 

[Mushroom]

The “truth” you saw was carefully crafted by the journalists to show all the bad things that occurred on the ARVN/US side, none of the good and certainly none of the atrocities committed by the Viet Cong and PAVN.

You mean like the execution of Nguyen Van Lem? One of the most remembered photos of the entire war, where General Nguyen Ngoc simply puts a gun to his head and kills him.

However, Lem was a member of the Viet Cong assassination team from North Vietnam. And his mission was specifically one of terror. Shortly before his execution, he had killed one of the officers that served under him, Lieutenant Colonel Nguyen Tuan. And not only that, but his wife, their six children, and his mother. We have heard outrage for over half a century now of how "barbaric" the street execution was. But almost nowhere is it ever mentioned that that monster had butchered an entire family of 9 people in an act of terror.

And it was not like he was innocent, when Lem was captured while trying to bury the bodies, and admitted when he was captured that he executed them. The grave actually had 34 bodies in it, all executed by the VC. But Lem was the only one that was captured alive, and he proudly confessed to the nine executions he did, and ordering the 25 others. That is when he was taken to General Nguyen Ngoc.

It's funny, it is not like that was some kind of secret. Because both AP photographer Eddie Adams and NBC cameraman Vo Suu were taken to the mass grave shortly after that. I have seen interviews where they admitted to seeing the mass graves, but where is the video or photos of that? But somehow, the bodies of 34 men, women, and children executed by the VC were not as important as the execution of a single VC.

Mass graves discovered in Hue

Allied troops who had recaptured the imperial capital of Hue from the North Vietnamese during the Tet Offensive discover the first mass graves in Hue. It was

www.history.com

 

[Mac-7]

Fine, prove it then.

Oh wait, you do not use proof. Just speculation.

Well, I think you may be taking money from aliens from Tau Ceti. Oh, I don't need proof, but surely you are because they only give money to humans. And you are human, therefore they gave you money.

Thats all youre doing is speculating - hoping - wishing

 

[Mushroom]

Thats all youre doing is speculating - hoping - wishing

No, it is known as "sarcasm".

You are the one speculating. Or to be more accurate "talking out of your arse".

You are the one making wild charges, without one shred of evidence. Meanwhile I bring up many cases, some from actual scholarly and respected sources which you simply ignore and make logical fallacies.

 

[Man of Ethics]

Vietnam was a Civil War that we turned into a Cold War

Fonda and other protestors were right about the war
War hawks lied to us and killed 60,000

Agree 100%.

PS. Over a million civilians were killed in Southeast Asia by American firepower.