Virginia - This Is Only The Beginning

[Blues Man]

In the US last year there were 157 gun incidents and 40 gun deaths every day, not including the 22,000 gun suicides.

FYI the 40 "gun deaths" a day include suicides.

Nope.

According the article I linked to from the NYT you are wrong

 

[Bob Blaylock]

You must live in a world where all people are honest and responsible. The world I live in has criminals, gangs, political and religious extremists, children who shoot up their schools for notoriety and suicide, etc.

I'll give you that much. Surely, all of us are influenced, to some degree by those whom we choose to associate with. You apparently hang out with subhuman filth, so that's become your nature, and that's how you've come to see humanity as a whole; including those of us who don't hang out with such scum, and who are influenced by the much better people with whom we associate.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

My problem with many of the pro-gun people on this site is that they take the ideological stance that any gun control is a violation of their Constitutional rights. To me that is the extreme and, as you say, it is intellectually dishonest and lazy.

What part of “…the right of the people…shall not be infringed.” is it that you are finding so difficult to understand?

 

[Bob Blaylock]

As for warrantless searches, if the people my community decided there was a valid reason that would make us all safer I'd say that is a democracy. I don't see that scenario playing out though.

So, then, what rights, as an individual, are you not willing to give up for some claimed collective good? More to the point, what individual rights would you not demand that others give up, for the good of the collective?

And what is the point even of recognizing essential basic rights, of having them explicitly affirmed in our nation's highest law, if they can be so casually sacrificed based on some claimed collective benefit?

“Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” — Benjamin Franklin​

 

[alang1216]

In the US last year there were 157 gun incidents and 40 gun deaths every day, not including the 22,000 gun suicides.

FYI the 40 "gun deaths" a day include suicides.

Nope.

According the article I linked to from the NYT you are wrong

The NYT data is from 2017, I used 2018. Even so the NYT put the gun deaths EXCLUDING suicides at 36/day. Not a big difference.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I don't know a lot about guns…

That much has become very obvious, and becomes even more so the more you participate in this discussion.

…but I'd bet the M134 GAU-17 Gatling Gun is more deadly than a flintlock. If I was going to defend my home from the zombie apocalypse I know which one I'd want to have.

It's difficult to imagine any circumstances in which you, as an individual, would be able to use a minigun, or even to afford the ammunition to fire it for even a second or two.

If you had both of those weapons sitting next to you, and were being attacked by zombies, you'd have a much better chance using the flintlock than attempting to use the minigun.

I note that this is not the first, nor even the second time that you've described the use of a weapon in a manner which indicates absolute ignorance about the nature of that weapon or what it would take to actually wield it.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I consider my safety to be my right. If your 2nd A right conflicts with that right, guess which side I'm on?

Well it doesn't matter what you consider there is no written or implied right to safety in the Constitution.

And certainly no written nor implied “right” to the false illusion of safety that alang1216 wants to take precedence over an explicitly-affirmed Constitutional right.

 

[Blues Man]

In the US last year there were 157 gun incidents and 40 gun deaths every day, not including the 22,000 gun suicides.

FYI the 40 "gun deaths" a day include suicides.

Nope.

According the article I linked to from the NYT you are wrong

The NYT data is from 2017, I used 2018. Even so the NYT put the gun deaths EXCLUDING suicides at 36/day. Not a big difference.

You need to link to your sources.

 

[2aguy]

In the US last year there were 157 gun incidents and 40 gun deaths every day, not including the 22,000 gun suicides.

FYI the 40 "gun deaths" a day include suicides.

Nope.

According the article I linked to from the NYT you are wrong

The NYT data is from 2017, I used 2018. Even so the NYT put the gun deaths EXCLUDING suicides at 36/day. Not a big difference.

Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year, on average to stop violent crime...from statistics at the CDC......

Can you tell which number is bigger?

Suicide does not count.......but you guys have to throw it in to get your numbers up........

And as more Americans own and carry guns?

Over the last 26 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 18.6 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
The anti-gun hypothesis and argument.....

More Guns = More Gun crime regardless of any other factors.

Actual Result:

In the U.S....as more Americans own and carry guns over the last 26 years, gun murder down 49%, gun crime down 75%, violent crime down 72%

The result: Exact opposite of theory of anti-gunners....

In Science when you have a theory, when that theory is tested....and the exact opposite result happens...that means your theory is wrong. That is science....not left wing wishful thinking.



Whatever the crime rate does......as more Americans owned more guns the crime rate did not go up....so again...



Britain...
More Guns = More Gun Crime
Britain had access to guns before they banned them.....they had low gun crime, low gun murder.
They banned guns, the gun murder rate spiked for 10 years then returned to the same level...
Your Theory again....
More guns = More Gun Crime
Guns Banned creates no change? That means banning guns for law abiding gun owners had no effect on gun crime.
When your theory states one thing, and you implement your theory, and nothing changes....in science, that means your theory is wrong...
-------

Maine tops ‘safest states’ rankings four years after removing major gun restriction

When Maine passed a “Constitutional Carry” law allowing Maine residents to carry a concealed firearm without any special permit in 2015, opponents of the law forecast a dangerous future for the state. They said the new law would hurt public safety and put Maine kids at risk.



One state representative who opposed the bill went so far as to say it would give Mainers a reason to be afraid every time they went out in public or to work.

Another state representative suggested the law would lead to violent criminals with recent arrests and convictions legally carrying handguns.


-----

Now four years later, Maine has been named the safest state in the nation according to US News and World Report’s public safety rankings, which measures the fifty states based on crime data.



Ranking as the top safest state for violent crime and fourth for property crime, Maine edges out another New England state, Vermont, for the top spot. Of note, Vermont also is a “Constitutional Carry” state. New Hampshire ranks third in the national rankings, giving New England all three of the top spots in the nation.

In 2018, Maine was edged out by Vermont in the same “safest states” ranking, but declared the best state overall in the broader “Crime and Corrections” category.

In 2017, using a different methodology, Maine was ranked second among the fifty states in the “Crime and Corrections” category and also second in the categories used to rank the “safest states.”

The U.S. News and World Report “Best States” rankings are built in partnership with McKinsey & Company, a firm that works closely with state leaders around the nation.

Maine has also ranked at the top of other state rankings. WalletHub.com recently ranked Maine second in “Personal and Residential Safety” among the fifty states, and third overall.

 

[2aguy]

Yet you want to tell me what gun I can carry because you don't feel safe with people carrying guns

I consider my safety to be my right. If your 2nd A right conflicts with that right, guess which side I'm on?

Then you want more Americans to own and carry guns....

Over the last 26 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 18.6 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.



The anti-gun hypothesis and argument.....

More Guns = More Gun crime regardless of any other factors.

Actual Result:

In the U.S....as more Americans own and carry guns over the last 26 years, gun murder down 49%, gun crime down 75%, violent crime down 72%

The result: Exact opposite of theory of anti-gunners....

In Science when you have a theory, when that theory is tested....and the exact opposite result happens...that means your theory is wrong. That is science....not left wing wishful thinking.



Whatever the crime rate does......as more Americans owned more guns the crime rate did not go up....so again...



Britain...
More Guns = More Gun Crime
Britain had access to guns before they banned them.....they had low gun crime, low gun murder.
They banned guns, the gun murder rate spiked for 10 years then returned to the same level...
Your Theory again....
More guns = More Gun Crime
Guns Banned creates no change? That means banning guns for law abiding gun owners had no effect on gun crime.
When your theory states one thing, and you implement your theory, and nothing changes....in science, that means your theory is wrong...
-------

Maine tops ‘safest states’ rankings four years after removing major gun restriction

When Maine passed a “Constitutional Carry” law allowing Maine residents to carry a concealed firearm without any special permit in 2015, opponents of the law forecast a dangerous future for the state. They said the new law would hurt public safety and put Maine kids at risk.



One state representative who opposed the bill went so far as to say it would give Mainers a reason to be afraid every time they went out in public or to work.

Another state representative suggested the law would lead to violent criminals with recent arrests and convictions legally carrying handguns.


-----

Now four years later, Maine has been named the safest state in the nation according to US News and World Report’s public safety rankings, which measures the fifty states based on crime data.



Ranking as the top safest state for violent crime and fourth for property crime, Maine edges out another New England state, Vermont, for the top spot. Of note, Vermont also is a “Constitutional Carry” state. New Hampshire ranks third in the national rankings, giving New England all three of the top spots in the nation.

In 2018, Maine was edged out by Vermont in the same “safest states” ranking, but declared the best state overall in the broader “Crime and Corrections” category.

In 2017, using a different methodology, Maine was ranked second among the fifty states in the “Crime and Corrections” category and also second in the categories used to rank the “safest states.”

The U.S. News and World Report “Best States” rankings are built in partnership with McKinsey & Company, a firm that works closely with state leaders around the nation.

Maine has also ranked at the top of other state rankings. WalletHub.com recently ranked Maine second in “Personal and Residential Safety” among the fifty states, and third overall.

 

[Cellblock2429]

/—-/ Its intellectuality dishonestly and laziness to take an argument to the extreme example. That’s why you do it.

No, why I do it is to establish that there are boundaries in gun control at the extremes that we should all be able to agree should not be crossed. Once that is established a reasonable discussion can ensue.

My problem with many of the pro-gun people on this site is that they take the ideological stance that any gun control is a violation of their Constitutional rights. To me that is the extreme and, as you say, it is intellectually dishonest and lazy.

/—-/ Only a hand full say that. I’m an NRA lifetime member. I own a 12 gauge in NY and a Walther PPK that’s in a different state.

There are extremists on both sides, I'm not one of them. If you can pass a background check that verifies you don't have a criminal mental health history, and you've been through some training in the safe use of your weapons, I can't imagine any law I'd support that would take away your guns.

/—-/ It depends on who defines mental health, who administers the test and who grades it. Now let’s restrict the right to vote to those who pass a mental health test. You on board with that?

It depends on who defines mental health, who administers the test and who grades it.

/——/ Anyone with TDS can not vote.

 

[alang1216]

In the US last year there were 157 gun incidents and 40 gun deaths every day, not including the 22,000 gun suicides.

FYI the 40 "gun deaths" a day include suicides.

Nope.

I was taught the safe use of firearms when I was a kid. I have been shooting for over 30 years. Never had an accidental discharge, never shot anyone accidentally or otherwise never committed any crime

But you still want to tell me what guns I can or can't own

Maybe. The more deadly the gun, the more restrictive should the regulations be. For example, semi-automatics should have one set of regulations, full-automatics should have another, more stringent set of regulations. If everyone were as responsible as you it wouldn't be necessary but, alas, they are not.

In the US last year there were 157 gun incidents and 40 gun deaths every day, not including the 22,000 gun suicides. Of the total fatalities, 548 were children, while 2,321 were teenagers.

One gun id not more deadly than another since even the smallest caliber firearm can kill

I don't know a lot about guns but I'd bet the M134 GAU-17 Gatling Gun is more deadly than a flintlock. If I was going to defend my home from the zombie apocalypse I know which one I'd want to have.

Ah the desperate reduction to the ridiculous.

It is your default strategy.

I can kill you just as easily with a .22 pistol as I can with a Ar 15 with a 50 round magazine.

DO you realize that you have a 99.997% chance of not being murdered by a person with a gun?\

You really are obsessing over nothing

Ridiculous? You don't want me to tell you what guns you can or can't own. Does that include the M134 GAU-17 Gatling Gun?

Nothing? If the M134 GAU-17 Gatling Gun were readily available I suspect there would have been a whole lot more casualties in Las Vegas and other mass shootings.

 

[alang1216]

You must live in a world where all people are honest and responsible. The world I live in has criminals, gangs, political and religious extremists, children who shoot up their schools for notoriety and suicide, etc.

I'll give you that much. Surely, all of us are influenced, to some degree by those whom we choose to associate with. You apparently hang out with subhuman filth, so that's become your nature, and that's how you've come to see humanity as a whole; including those of us who don't hang out with such scum, and who are influenced by the much better people with whom we associate.

I guess you don't watch the news much. In truth, not a bad idea.

 

[alang1216]

Well it doesn't matter what you consider there is no written or implied right to safety in the Constitution.

Pretty arrogant considering gun manufacturing in this country is protected by a law that can be repealed by voters just like me. If that law goes, so do the manufacturers.

 

[alang1216]

Yet you want to tell me what gun I can carry because you don't feel safe with people carrying guns

I consider my safety to be my right. If your 2nd A right conflicts with that right, guess which side I'm on?

Then you want more Americans to own and carry guns....

Over the last 26 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 18.6 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.



The anti-gun hypothesis and argument.....

More Guns = More Gun crime regardless of any other factors.

Actual Result:

In the U.S....as more Americans own and carry guns over the last 26 years, gun murder down 49%, gun crime down 75%, violent crime down 72%

The result: Exact opposite of theory of anti-gunners....

In Science when you have a theory, when that theory is tested....and the exact opposite result happens...that means your theory is wrong. That is science....not left wing wishful thinking.



Whatever the crime rate does......as more Americans owned more guns the crime rate did not go up....so again...



Britain...
More Guns = More Gun Crime
Britain had access to guns before they banned them.....they had low gun crime, low gun murder.
They banned guns, the gun murder rate spiked for 10 years then returned to the same level...
Your Theory again....
More guns = More Gun Crime
Guns Banned creates no change? That means banning guns for law abiding gun owners had no effect on gun crime.
When your theory states one thing, and you implement your theory, and nothing changes....in science, that means your theory is wrong...
-------

Maine tops ‘safest states’ rankings four years after removing major gun restriction

When Maine passed a “Constitutional Carry” law allowing Maine residents to carry a concealed firearm without any special permit in 2015, opponents of the law forecast a dangerous future for the state. They said the new law would hurt public safety and put Maine kids at risk.



One state representative who opposed the bill went so far as to say it would give Mainers a reason to be afraid every time they went out in public or to work.

Another state representative suggested the law would lead to violent criminals with recent arrests and convictions legally carrying handguns.


-----

Now four years later, Maine has been named the safest state in the nation according to US News and World Report’s public safety rankings, which measures the fifty states based on crime data.



Ranking as the top safest state for violent crime and fourth for property crime, Maine edges out another New England state, Vermont, for the top spot. Of note, Vermont also is a “Constitutional Carry” state. New Hampshire ranks third in the national rankings, giving New England all three of the top spots in the nation.

In 2018, Maine was edged out by Vermont in the same “safest states” ranking, but declared the best state overall in the broader “Crime and Corrections” category.

In 2017, using a different methodology, Maine was ranked second among the fifty states in the “Crime and Corrections” category and also second in the categories used to rank the “safest states.”

The U.S. News and World Report “Best States” rankings are built in partnership with McKinsey & Company, a firm that works closely with state leaders around the nation.

Maine has also ranked at the top of other state rankings. WalletHub.com recently ranked Maine second in “Personal and Residential Safety” among the fifty states, and third overall.

maybe but I don't think it has been proved. correlation does not mean cause.

 

[alang1216]

It depends on who defines mental health, who administers the test and who grades it.

/——/ Anyone with TDS can not vote.

Yet they are the most likely to vote.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Ridiculous? You don't want me to tell you what guns you can or can't own. Does that include the M134 GAU-17 Gatling Gun?

Nothing? If the M134 GAU-17 Gatling Gun were readily available I suspect there would have been a whole lot more casualties in Las Vegas and other mass shootings.

The Las Vegas shooter would almost certainly not have been able to get a M134 GAU-17 up to the hotel room from which he did his shooting, along with an adequate supply of ammunition for it, and get it set up there to be fired.

This is not a one-man, hand-fired weapon. It's a weapon to be mounted on vehicles and aircraft. And it fires hundreds of rounds per second. Just the ammunition to keep it going for a few seconds would be a major load in itself to carry up there by itself.

 

[Blues Man]

In the US last year there were 157 gun incidents and 40 gun deaths every day, not including the 22,000 gun suicides.

FYI the 40 "gun deaths" a day include suicides.

Nope.

Maybe. The more deadly the gun, the more restrictive should the regulations be. For example, semi-automatics should have one set of regulations, full-automatics should have another, more stringent set of regulations. If everyone were as responsible as you it wouldn't be necessary but, alas, they are not.

In the US last year there were 157 gun incidents and 40 gun deaths every day, not including the 22,000 gun suicides. Of the total fatalities, 548 were children, while 2,321 were teenagers.

One gun id not more deadly than another since even the smallest caliber firearm can kill

I don't know a lot about guns but I'd bet the M134 GAU-17 Gatling Gun is more deadly than a flintlock. If I was going to defend my home from the zombie apocalypse I know which one I'd want to have.

Ah the desperate reduction to the ridiculous.

It is your default strategy.

I can kill you just as easily with a .22 pistol as I can with a Ar 15 with a 50 round magazine.

DO you realize that you have a 99.997% chance of not being murdered by a person with a gun?\

You really are obsessing over nothing

Ridiculous? You don't want me to tell you what guns you can or can't own. Does that include the M134 GAU-17 Gatling Gun?

Nothing? If the M134 GAU-17 Gatling Gun were readily available I suspect there would have been a whole lot more casualties in Las Vegas and other mass shootings.

Why shouldn't I own a Gatling gun?

The mere ownership of an object is not the problem.

How many times do I have to tell you that?

Just because I own guns in no way means I will turn into a mass murderer.

Tell me just because your car can do 100 MPH does that mean you're going to drive at 100 MPH in a school zone?

SHould I assume you will and have that car taken away from you?

 

[Blues Man]

Well it doesn't matter what you consider there is no written or implied right to safety in the Constitution.

Pretty arrogant considering gun manufacturing in this country is protected by a law that can be repealed by voters just like me. If that law goes, so do the manufacturers.

You don't know how the amendment process works do you?

And there is still no guarantee of safety in any government document so your quest to control everyone else just so you can feel safe will be in vain

 

[alang1216]

Ridiculous? You don't want me to tell you what guns you can or can't own. Does that include the M134 GAU-17 Gatling Gun?

Nothing? If the M134 GAU-17 Gatling Gun were readily available I suspect there would have been a whole lot more casualties in Las Vegas and other mass shootings.

The Las Vegas shooter would almost certainly not have been able to get a M134 GAU-17 up to the hotel room from which he did his shooting, along with an adequate supply of ammunition for it, and get it set up there to be fired.

This is not a one-man, hand-fired weapon. It's a weapon to be mounted on vehicles and aircraft. And it fires hundreds of rounds per second. Just the ammunition to keep it going for a few seconds would be a major load in itself to carry up there by itself.

Really? They search your bags before carrying them to your room? You must look very suspicious or are a lousy tipper.