Walter Cronkite's Ridiculous Spin on the 1968 Tet Offensive in South Vietnam

[Soupnazi630]

Your last sentence needs to be documented. Otherwise it is a slander against men who had the courage to serve in combat and the courage to admit that they often committed war crimes.

No it is not slander it is FACT

When VVAW first started they had very few pepopple joining up. They were limited to veterans

They THEN changed their bylaws allowing any vietnam ERA veteran or an associate of a vietnam era veteran to join. It is still written in their bylaws.

They allow any associate of a vietnam era veteran to join which means anyone with a pulse.

They did thise to get more mejmbers and when they did their membership exploded into the thousands,.

Sorry but they are not a valid example of veterans. Most veterans supported the war. VVAW was on the frinmge

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Furthermore popularity means NOTHING. if we chose national leaders based on popularity Taylor swift would be our ruler.

You yourself argue like a child. My point was precisely that in 1954 Ho was not merely “popular.” His popularity flowed precisely from having organized a coalition that declared “Independence” from France, that fought and defeated the U.S.-aided French colonial army at DienBienPhu. He did this not by “singing” and showing off his pretty body (are you 15 years old that you dare argue with me here in this way?) … but by building up a movement and a party, making alliances with China and the USSR, and forging a movement and an army willing to fight to the death to re-establish Vietnam’s independent national existence against foreign colonial rule.

 

[Soupnazi630]

If they were frauds, where did they get the medals they threw away at the Dewey Canon III demonstration?

Medals can be bought at any flea marketyor surplus store. That was a stuoid fucking question.

It is probably where Kerry gut the medals he threw over the fence.

He never threw his OWN medal but kept them framed and on display in his office because he was a fucking liar

 

[Hector12]

Medals can be bought at any flea marketyor surplus store. That was a stuoid fucking question.

It is probably where Kerry gut the medals he threw over the fence.

He never threw his OWN medal but kept them framed and on display in his office because he was a fucking liar

On Friday, April 23, more than 800 veterans individually tossed their medals, ribbons, discharge papers, and other war mementos on the steps of the U.S. Capitol, rejecting the Vietnam War and the significance of those awards. Among those that threw medals were Sen. John Kerry.[43] According to internal White House memos between John Dean and Charles Colson, they had no idea how to handle the discarded medals and finally passed them on to the Congressional Medal of Honor Society.[4

Vietnam Veterans Against the War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Congressional Medal of Honor Society had the opportunity to determine that the medals were fraudulent. It did not because they were not.

 

[Soupnazi630]

On Friday, April 23, more than 800 veterans individually tossed their medals, ribbons, discharge papers, and other war mementos on the steps of the U.S. Capitol, rejecting the Vietnam War and the significance of those awards. Among those that threw medals were Sen. John Kerry.[43] According to internal White House memos between John Dean and Charles Colson, they had no idea how to handle the discarded medals and finally passed them on to the Congressional Medal of Honor Society.[4

Vietnam Veterans Against the War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Congressional Medal of Honor Society had the opportunity to determine that the medals were fraudulent. It did not because they were not.

They did not have any such opportunity nor did they try.

john kerry threw some medals but not his own as i stated. He was later caught with his own medals on display because it was a fucking bullshit stunt

 

[Hector12]

They did not have any such opportunity nor did they try.

john kerry threw some medals but not his own as i stated. He was later caught with his own medals on display because it was a fucking bullshit stunt

Once I worked with a Vietnam Veteran who threw his medals away at the Dewie Canyon III demonstrations. Later on he wanted his metals back. He got them back He still gretretted his participation on the War in Vietnam.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Once I worked with a Vietnam Veteran who threw his medals away at the Dewie Canyon III demonstrations. Later on he wanted his metals back. He got them back He still gretretted his participation on the War in Vietnam.

Yes and individual anecdotes mean nothing

 

[Hector12]

Yes and individual anecdotes mean nothing

It is impossible to reason with you because you refuse to believe facts that conflict with what you want to believe.

 

[Soupnazi630]

It is impossible to reason with you because you refuse to believe facts that conflict with what you want to believe.

you have not stated any such facts

Yiou are not even trying to reason.

Instead you post irrelevancies and try to jump at conclusions

 

[Hector12]

you have not stated any such facts

Yiou are not even trying to reason.

Instead you post irrelevancies and try to jump at conclusions

The important fact is: Eisenhower said that his advisors told him nearly 80% of the Vietnamese supported Ho Chi Minh. That 80% is the best available estimate of Communist support among the Vietnamese. I will add that when the Communists finally did end the war, South Vietnamese soldiers surrendered without a fight.

A continual complaint of Americans during the War in Vietnam was: "Their Vietnamese fight harder than our Vietnamese."

 

[Soupnazi630]

The important fact is: Eisenhower said that his advisors told him nearly 80% of the Vietnamese supported Ho Chi Minh. That 80% is the best available estimate of Communist support among the Vietnamese. I will add that when the Communists finally did end the war, South Vietnamese soldiers surrendered without a fight.

A continual complaint of Americans during the War in Vietnam was: "Their Vietnamese fight harder than our Vietnamese."

It is not a valid estimate.

The south did indeed fight for a while even if they finally lost

Nor does any of that justify zminh starting the war

 

[Hector12]

It is not a valid estimate.

The south did indeed fight for a while even if they finally lost

Nor does any of that justify zminh starting the war

The War in Vietnam was a civil war that was made far worse by American involvement. The vast majority of the Vietnamese supported the Communists. Vietnam was unimportant to our security and economy. We never should have gotten involved.





Here is the U.S. Navy Band playing the National Anthem of Vietnam.

 

[Hector12]

quoc huy

EMBASSY OF THE​

Socialist Republic of Vietnam​

IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA​

Embassy of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam in the United States

vietnamembassy-usa.org

Soupnazi630, The War in Vietnam is over. They won. Get over it.

 

[Soupnazi630]

The War in Vietnam was a civil war that was made far worse by American involvement. The vast majority of the Vietnamese supported the Communists. Vietnam was unimportant to our security and economy. We never should have gotten involved.





Here is the U.S. Navy Band playing the National Anthem of Vietnam.

Wrong

it was NOT a civil war.

The vast majority did not support anyone and it was important enough.

 

[Hector12]

Wrong

it was NOT a civil war.

The vast majority did not support anyone and it was important enough.

You do not prove that by asserting it.

If the vast majority did not support anyone, we should have left them alone.

Why was it important? Vietnam is one of our trading partners now. Vietnam is the only country I can think of that decisively defeated the Army of Communist China. That happened during the spring of 1969. Remember?

 

[Hector12]

 

[mikegriffith1]

I see that several people continue to simply repeat Communist/leftist talking points about the war and to ignore the many refutations of those talking points. They appear unwilling to read or view anything that contradicts what they want to believe on the subject.

Here's a very good documentary on the war titled Truth and Myths About the Vietnam War, produced in 2023 by the AVVBA and narrated by Sam Elliott. (If you don't know who Sam Elliott is, he is a rather famous Hollywood actor who has won two Golden Globe Awards, two Emmy Awards, and one Academy Award nomination.)

Despite the documented facts on the subject, I suspect that most liberals will never abandon the pathetic myth that the U.S. sabotaged a free and fair election in Vietnam in 1956. As military historian Michael Walker has noted, the last thing the Hanoi regime wanted in 1956 was a free and fair election:

In the DRV [North Vietnam], a more complex drama played out. Given the disastrous land reform program, the repression of religion, and the crackdown on individual freedoms, the last thing the skeptical VWP leadership wanted was a free and fair election in 1956 [the VWP was North Vietnam's communist party]. For Hanoi, the unfulfilled reunification plebiscite was of greater value as propaganda. (America and Vietnam, 1954-1963: The Road to War, McFarland Publishers, 2022, p. 15)

We knew from our experience with North Korea that the Communists had no intention of holding a free and fair election. The North Koreans refused to hold an election under UN supervision. The North Vietnamese pulled the same stunt in 1954 at the Geneva conference, rejecting a UN-supervised election and insisting on an election supervised by the Communist-controlled ISC.

The Communists' refusal to hold a genuine election in 1956 was the main reason that the U.S. and South Vietnam refused to sign the Geneva Accords.

Anyone who argues that our intervention in Vietnam was illegal is repeating another long-debunked myth. The most thorough refutation of this myth is Dr. John Norton Moore's seminal book Law and the Indo-China War (Princeton University Press, 1972). Eugene V. Rostow, a former dean of Yale Law School, called Moore's book "unanswerable" (LINK).

A more readily available scholarly source on the legal issues regarding our intervention in Vietnam is Ronald Ratton's 40-page chapter in To Oppose Any Foe: The Legacy of U.S. Intervention in Vietnam, edited by Ross Fisher, John Norton Moore, and Robert F. Turner (Carolina Academic Press, 2006, pp. 329-369), which is available for free online (LINK).

 

[Hector12]

The Communists' refusal to hold a genuine election in 1956 was the main reason that the U.S. and South Vietnam refused to sign the Geneva Accords.

The Geneva Accords of 1954 were not signed by the United States in 1954. How can the presumed "Communists' refusal to hold a genuine election in 1956" have affected something that happened two years earlier?

It was a bad situation. We made it a whole lot worse by becoming involved with it.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Vietnam is the only country I can think of that decisively defeated the Army of Communist China. That happened during the spring of 1969. Remember?

You mean 1979. Also, while China lost disproportionately more soldiers during its invasion, China did seize islands in the South China Sea it controls to this day.

 

[Hector12]

You do not prove that by asserting it.

If the vast majority did not support anyone, we should have left them alone.

Why was it important? Vietnam is one of our trading partners now. Vietnam is the only country I can think of that decisively defeated the Army of Communist China. That happened during the spring of 1969. Remember?

Obviously I meant "the spring of 1979," as Tom Paine 1949 pointed out.