Want to Keep Pot Illegal? Time to Justify...

[ScienceRocks]

This is what I believe
1# It should be a state issue. What it to the federal government to tell a state that approves or disapproves what to do?
2# It's their bodies. Choices...Abortion effects another human being so that of course should be illegal or very rare for that fact. Pot doesn't effect anyone besides the person about the same as drinking.

 

[Katzndogz]

Pot affects every one around the user. But if the pot they are eating and drinking is dusted with lead to increase the weight I'm okay with that.

 

[MikeK]

So why shouldn't marijuana be prescribed like other tranquilizers?

Some enlightened MDs do prescribe it in states where medical marijuana is legally available. In fact its use as a tranquilizer is among the leading reasons for prescribing it.

Unfortunately the vast majority of physicians simply are not aware of its relative effectiveness. And many of those who are aware of it are afraid of being stigmatized by marijuana's tainted reputation, so they stick to safe and uncontroversial tradition.

Anyone who wishes to know more about marijuana's usefulness as a tranquilizer need only read, Marijuana, The Forbidden Medicine, by Dr. Lester Grinspoon, MD, PhD, Professor of Psychiatric Medicine and Psychopharmacology, Harvard Medical School. (Available from Amazon.)

 

[Katzndogz]

The enlightened doctors who prescribe marijuana just all happen to work for marijuana clinics.

 

[High_Gravity]

My last objection to legal pot has just been taken away. The legal pot industty has been taken over by Russian and Armenian organised crime. Marijuana is sold by weight so the pot is being treated with lead dust. I'm so glad I found this out. Now I have no complaints.

So what does that do?

 

[Katzndogz]

Lead poisoning.

Perhaps that's the reason for people exhibiting bizarre behavior and those that know them insist that they don't use any drugs but a little pot once in a while.

We know that lead in the environment has contributed to all kinds of problems in the US, which has always been attributed to lead in the enviornment. But we've had decades of removing lead, yet the adverse effects are still going on. They are increasing rather than decreasing. It might be because lead is being used to make marijuana heavier.

Lead Poisoning May Well Have Helped the Roman Empire Fall - NYTimes.com

Dr. Herbert Needleman has shown that the median decrease of 4 to 5 points in I.Q. found in children with low to moderate levels of lead exposure is the sentinel for a much larger impact on populations: a quadrupling of the number of children with I.Q.'s below 80 and a total absence of children with I.Q.'s above 125. And the long-term consequences - school failure, dropouts and sociopathy - are only now being shown.

We've been eliminating environmental lead since the 80s. It should be getting better, but lead toxicity is getting worse. This could well be the reason why.

 

[KevinWestern]

The enlightened doctors who prescribe marijuana just all happen to work for marijuana clinics.

Katz, why are you so against people smoking marijuana? Do you hold this same level of distain towards ALL people who drink alcohol as well?

.

 

[Katzndogz]

The enlightened doctors who prescribe marijuana just all happen to work for marijuana clinics.

Katz, why are you so against people smoking marijuana? Do you hold this same level of distain towards ALL people who drink alcohol as well?

.

When I was much younger I really didn't care. I didn't use marijuana myself but I knew plenty of people who did. When in a pot smoked filled room my heart started racing so bad, I had to leave so I never used it. A couple of times, I ended up in the emergency room to deal with these heart problems. But that's not why. It was years and years and Decades of seeing the severe damage that marijuana did. Not only to the user, who never quite actually grasped the disaster around them, but the people close to the pot addict suffered so much, so much pain, death and loss that I developed the same antipathy against pot that I have against alcoholics. Not everyone who has a glass of wine with dinner is an alcoholic, but everyone who smoked pot is a drug user.

The only solution is to let pot wind its way through the culture with as many being encouraged to die as possible and as young as possible. I always knew that the pot clinics were owned/operated by organized crime, but to find out that they are increasing weight by the use of lead dust has got to help the death rate along. We will just have to endure the insanity, failure, and all the other detriments until we work through it. Meanwhile, my last objection to pot use has been taken away. Legalize pot, let the lead treated pot proliferate and we might just make it through by the strength of non users.

It's not like alcohol isn't adultered, half the bars (and manufacturers too) cut the product with water. Everyone does it. Increase the weight of marijuana with lead dust. It will eventually mean the right thing.

 

[Ava]

"It's time the prohibitionists justify why marijuana should remain illegal."

I personally love the good weed, but don't use it. Most people I know who also love it and are dependent upon it, have no problem acquiring it. It is everywhere. If people were responsible and wouldn't smoke it while driving or working, as they often do with alcohol, I would support legalization of marijuana. But irresponsible people will toke up anywhere as they are addicted and I am concerned that legalization would increase that dependency with other newbies to the weed.

I also would never hire anyone I knew who smoked marijuana on the job. They are an accident just waiting to happen and YES! I have had experience with them. The short-term memory loss causes accidents also in cars/traffic.

So, in essence, I just don't support another mind-altering drug on the market, even though I do like the effects of the weed. I don't think people should be punished severely for possession of it, either.

And, as I mentioned, marijuana is everywhere. You just can't believe the profitability factor in medical marijuana. This is where stoners get it, largely, and they don't take their whole allotment, thereby leaving some for the licensed medical marijuana "businesspersons." Everybody wins in that market....lol

 

[KevinWestern]

When I was much younger I really didn't care. I didn't use marijuana myself but I knew plenty of people who did. When in a pot smoked filled room my heart started racing so bad, I had to leave so I never used it. A couple of times, I ended up in the emergency room to deal with these heart problems. But that's not why. It was years and years and Decades of seeing the severe damage that marijuana did. Not only to the user, who never quite actually grasped the disaster around them, but the people close to the pot addict suffered so much, so much pain, death and loss that I developed the same antipathy against pot that I have against alcoholics. Not everyone who has a glass of wine with dinner is an alcoholic, but everyone who smoked pot is a drug user.

The only solution is to let pot wind its way through the culture with as many being encouraged to die as possible and as young as possible. I always knew that the pot clinics were owned/operated by organized crime, but to find out that they are increasing weight by the use of lead dust has got to help the death rate along. We will just have to endure the insanity, failure, and all the other detriments until we work through it. Meanwhile, my last objection to pot use has been taken away. Legalize pot, let the lead treated pot proliferate and we might just make it through by the strength of non users.

It's not like alcohol isn't adultered, half the bars (and manufacturers too) cut the product with water. Everyone does it. Increase the weight of marijuana with lead dust. It will eventually mean the right thing.

Alright, well I'm not doubting any of your personal experiences, but I have a few points to make.

Alcohol - like marijuana - is a drug. People who drink alcohol, by definition, are drug users just like those who smoke marijuana. There's non-alcoholic beer, right? However despite this, People choose to drink alcoholic beer because they like the effect it has on them (it's not simply a taste thing), and just like marijuana, it's up to the individual to be responsible enough to consume at appropriate times and in appropriate amounts.

Why is the occasional alcohol drinker somehow different from the occasional pot smoker?

Too, why do you keep bringing up this ridiculous lead dust story? Sure, this thing might happen in Russia, but do you actually believe it's going to fly in the United States under State and Federal regulations? In this country, (in many cases) you can't even sell a non-consumable product with lead traces in it! Not a strong point you're making, Katz..


.

 

[Katzndogz]

In order to take the profit motive away from the cartels and keep it with the sick people who need it, marijuana outlets were set up as collectives. Those who grew it, donated it to the collective to be sold to those who didn't grow it.

The pot shops largely get their product from the professional cartel growers and sell marijuana over the counter and any other kind of drug they can get their hands on under the counter. Many outlets have expanded into weapons too. That's a bigger profit margin. Pot legalization is working basically the same way it worked in Amsterdam.

 

[KevinWestern]

"It's time the prohibitionists justify why marijuana should remain illegal."

I personally love the good weed, but don't use it. Most people I know who also love it and are dependent upon it, have no problem acquiring it. It is everywhere. If people were responsible and wouldn't smoke it while driving or working, as they often do with alcohol, I would support legalization of marijuana. But irresponsible people will toke up anywhere as they are addicted and I am concerned that legalization would increase that dependency with other newbies to the weed.

I also would never hire anyone I knew who smoked marijuana on the job. They are an accident just waiting to happen and YES! I have had experience with them. The short-term memory loss causes accidents also in cars/traffic.

So, in essence, I just don't support another mind-altering drug on the market, even though I do like the effects of the weed. I don't think people should be punished severely for possession of it, either.

And, as I mentioned, marijuana is everywhere. You just can't believe the profitability factor in medical marijuana. This is where stoners get it, largely, and they don't take their whole allotment, thereby leaving some for the licensed medical marijuana "businesspersons." Everybody wins in that market....lol

Thanks for the response and for your opinion.

Here’s the thing (as I explained to Katz), I’m not saying that marijuana legalization is necesarrily going to improve our quality of life; my main point is that we are paying very real and tangible costs for having it prohibited, some include:

1.) Millions of people (who’d otherwise not be criminals) are in prison right now, breaking up families and stalling careers
2.) Billions of dollars of resources are being consumed policiing it, from officers to courts
3.) Ultra violent cartels are given the monopoly of all marijuana profits, and therefore are made into very powerful entities that perpetuate street violence in the US

My question is, are these costs WORTH preventing a few more people from driving high? You know what I mean?

-KW

 

[Katzndogz]

When I was much younger I really didn't care. I didn't use marijuana myself but I knew plenty of people who did. When in a pot smoked filled room my heart started racing so bad, I had to leave so I never used it. A couple of times, I ended up in the emergency room to deal with these heart problems. But that's not why. It was years and years and Decades of seeing the severe damage that marijuana did. Not only to the user, who never quite actually grasped the disaster around them, but the people close to the pot addict suffered so much, so much pain, death and loss that I developed the same antipathy against pot that I have against alcoholics. Not everyone who has a glass of wine with dinner is an alcoholic, but everyone who smoked pot is a drug user.

The only solution is to let pot wind its way through the culture with as many being encouraged to die as possible and as young as possible. I always knew that the pot clinics were owned/operated by organized crime, but to find out that they are increasing weight by the use of lead dust has got to help the death rate along. We will just have to endure the insanity, failure, and all the other detriments until we work through it. Meanwhile, my last objection to pot use has been taken away. Legalize pot, let the lead treated pot proliferate and we might just make it through by the strength of non users.

It's not like alcohol isn't adultered, half the bars (and manufacturers too) cut the product with water. Everyone does it. Increase the weight of marijuana with lead dust. It will eventually mean the right thing.

Alright, well I'm not doubting any of your personal experiences, but I have a few points to make.

Alcohol - like marijuana - is a drug. People who drink alcohol, by definition, are drug users just like those who smoke marijuana. There's non-alcoholic beer, right? However despite this, People choose to drink alcoholic beer because they like the effect it has on them (it's not simply a taste thing), and just like marijuana, it's up to the individual to be responsible enough to consume at appropriate times and in appropriate amounts.

Why is the occasional alcohol drinker somehow different from the occasional pot smoker?

Too, why do you keep bringing up this ridiculous lead dust story? Sure, this thing might happen in Russia, but do you actually believe it's going to fly in the United States under State and Federal regulations? In this country, (in many cases) you can't even sell a non-consumable product with lead traces in it! Not a strong point you're making, Katz..


.

It is actually a taste thing. The occasional alcohol drinker doesn't get drunk. There is no point to use of marijuana other than get high.

Oh please. Don't be deliberately dense.

I actually just found out that lead has been used to increase the weight of marijuana. Lead has actually been added for YEARS.
Smoke Pot, Get Lead Poisoning?

Potential Toxins from Medical Marijuana Use

?You got lead in my marijuana. . .? ? Terra Sigillata

You are a heavy marijuana user. You owe it to yourself to get tested.

The FDA can have all the regulations it wants and it still won't stop increasing the weight of marijuana with lead any more than all the FDA regulations in the world haven't done a thing to stop the corner bar from watering their alcohol.

This news, old as it is, comes as quite a shock to me.

 

[Ava]

"It's time the prohibitionists justify why marijuana should remain illegal."

I personally love the good weed, but don't use it. Most people I know who also love it and are dependent upon it, have no problem acquiring it. It is everywhere. If people were responsible and wouldn't smoke it while driving or working, as they often do with alcohol, I would support legalization of marijuana. But irresponsible people will toke up anywhere as they are addicted and I am concerned that legalization would increase that dependency with other newbies to the weed.

I also would never hire anyone I knew who smoked marijuana on the job. They are an accident just waiting to happen and YES! I have had experience with them. The short-term memory loss causes accidents also in cars/traffic.

So, in essence, I just don't support another mind-altering drug on the market, even though I do like the effects of the weed. I don't think people should be punished severely for possession of it, either.

And, as I mentioned, marijuana is everywhere. You just can't believe the profitability factor in medical marijuana. This is where stoners get it, largely, and they don't take their whole allotment, thereby leaving some for the licensed medical marijuana "businesspersons." Everybody wins in that market....lol

Thanks for the response and for your opinion.

Here’s the thing (as I explained to Katz), I’m not saying that marijuana legalization is necesarrily going to improve our quality of life; my main point is that we are paying very real and tangible costs for having it prohibited, some include:

1.) Millions of people (who’d otherwise not be criminals) are in prison right now, breaking up families and stalling careers
2.) Billions of dollars of resources are being consumed policiing it, from officers to courts
3.) Ultra violent cartels are given the monopoly of all marijuana profits, and therefore are made into very powerful entities that perpetuate street violence in the US

My question is, are these costs WORTH preventing a few more people from driving high? You know what I mean?

-KW

A few more people from driving high?? You'll need to define "few," for all users put other drivers at risk when legalization permits all ages to drive, even though subsequent laws and penalties would apply to these drivers.

As far as the profitability of "cartels" goes...it doesn't enter into my concerns of legalizing another mind-altering drug as the subsequent aftermath is unknown.

Thanks for your response and I now bid you "adieu" as I am saying "bygones" to this thread. There is no perfect solution, only hypothesis as of this day and time.

 

[Katzndogz]

"It's time the prohibitionists justify why marijuana should remain illegal."

I personally love the good weed, but don't use it. Most people I know who also love it and are dependent upon it, have no problem acquiring it. It is everywhere. If people were responsible and wouldn't smoke it while driving or working, as they often do with alcohol, I would support legalization of marijuana. But irresponsible people will toke up anywhere as they are addicted and I am concerned that legalization would increase that dependency with other newbies to the weed.

I also would never hire anyone I knew who smoked marijuana on the job. They are an accident just waiting to happen and YES! I have had experience with them. The short-term memory loss causes accidents also in cars/traffic.

So, in essence, I just don't support another mind-altering drug on the market, even though I do like the effects of the weed. I don't think people should be punished severely for possession of it, either.

And, as I mentioned, marijuana is everywhere. You just can't believe the profitability factor in medical marijuana. This is where stoners get it, largely, and they don't take their whole allotment, thereby leaving some for the licensed medical marijuana "businesspersons." Everybody wins in that market....lol

Thanks for the response and for your opinion.

Here’s the thing (as I explained to Katz), I’m not saying that marijuana legalization is necesarrily going to improve our quality of life; my main point is that we are paying very real and tangible costs for having it prohibited, some include:

1.) Millions of people (who’d otherwise not be criminals) are in prison right now, breaking up families and stalling careers
2.) Billions of dollars of resources are being consumed policiing it, from officers to courts
3.) Ultra violent cartels are given the monopoly of all marijuana profits, and therefore are made into very powerful entities that perpetuate street violence in the US

My question is, are these costs WORTH preventing a few more people from driving high? You know what I mean?

-KW

You are willing to accept that a few more people might kill others by driving high as if driving high was an inconvenience to the people who were killed.

Marijuana use has already broken up millions and families and stalled careers. Most of the users in prison aren't in prison for marijuana offenses, but for other offences, of which marijuana possession was just an additional charge.

 

[KevinWestern]

In order to take the profit motive away from the cartels and keep it with the sick people who need it, marijuana outlets were set up as collectives. Those who grew it, donated it to the collective to be sold to those who didn't grow it.

The pot shops largely get their product from the professional cartel growers and sell marijuana over the counter and any other kind of drug they can get their hands on under the counter. Many outlets have expanded into weapons too. That's a bigger profit margin. Pot legalization is working basically the same way it worked in Amsterdam.

Hi Katz,

If marijuana is legalized I can assure you that the cartels, the illegal activities, the lead dusting (which is illegal), it will all be out of the picture (with regards to pot in the US).

We will see legal & non-violent growers pop up, legal distribution networks, and legal retail outlets.

Law abiding companies want NOTHING to do with illegal, non-law abiding companies because doing business with those entities lead to a slew of problems:

1.) You can't bring them to court, hold them accountable
2.) You can't transact in the normal fashion, any tax reporting activities will get flagged
3.) Illegal companies deal in intimidation and violence, which is generally best avoided in the business place.

What's your point?


.

 

[Katzndogz]

In order to take the profit motive away from the cartels and keep it with the sick people who need it, marijuana outlets were set up as collectives. Those who grew it, donated it to the collective to be sold to those who didn't grow it.

The pot shops largely get their product from the professional cartel growers and sell marijuana over the counter and any other kind of drug they can get their hands on under the counter. Many outlets have expanded into weapons too. That's a bigger profit margin. Pot legalization is working basically the same way it worked in Amsterdam.

Hi Katz,

If marijuana is legalized I can assure you that the cartels, the illegal activities, the lead dusting (which is illegal), it will all be out of the picture (with regards to pot in the US).

We will see legal & non-violent growers pop up, legal distribution networks, and legal retail outlets.

Law abiding companies want NOTHING to do with illegal, non-law abiding companies because doing business with those entities lead to a slew of problems:

1.) You can't bring them to court, hold them accountable
2.) You can't transact in the normal fashion, any tax reporting activities will get flagged
3.) Illegal companies deal in intimidation and violence, which is generally best avoided in the business place.

What's your point?


.

You are dreaming. You are dreaming of what you want instead of the reality that will be. Meanwhile, as a pot user, you should really get tested for lead poisoning.

 

[KevinWestern]

"It's time the prohibitionists justify why marijuana should remain illegal."

I personally love the good weed, but don't use it. Most people I know who also love it and are dependent upon it, have no problem acquiring it. It is everywhere. If people were responsible and wouldn't smoke it while driving or working, as they often do with alcohol, I would support legalization of marijuana. But irresponsible people will toke up anywhere as they are addicted and I am concerned that legalization would increase that dependency with other newbies to the weed.

I also would never hire anyone I knew who smoked marijuana on the job. They are an accident just waiting to happen and YES! I have had experience with them. The short-term memory loss causes accidents also in cars/traffic.

So, in essence, I just don't support another mind-altering drug on the market, even though I do like the effects of the weed. I don't think people should be punished severely for possession of it, either.

And, as I mentioned, marijuana is everywhere. You just can't believe the profitability factor in medical marijuana. This is where stoners get it, largely, and they don't take their whole allotment, thereby leaving some for the licensed medical marijuana "businesspersons." Everybody wins in that market....lol

Thanks for the response and for your opinion.

Here’s the thing (as I explained to Katz), I’m not saying that marijuana legalization is necesarrily going to improve our quality of life; my main point is that we are paying very real and tangible costs for having it prohibited, some include:

1.) Millions of people (who’d otherwise not be criminals) are in prison right now, breaking up families and stalling careers
2.) Billions of dollars of resources are being consumed policiing it, from officers to courts
3.) Ultra violent cartels are given the monopoly of all marijuana profits, and therefore are made into very powerful entities that perpetuate street violence in the US

My question is, are these costs WORTH preventing a few more people from driving high? You know what I mean?

-KW

A few more people from driving high?? You'll need to define "few," for all users put other drivers at risk when legalization permits all ages to drive, even though subsequent laws and penalties would apply to these drivers.

As far as the profitability of "cartels" goes...it doesn't enter into my concerns of legalizing another mind-altering drug as the subsequent aftermath is unknown.

Thanks for your response and I now bid you "adieu" as I am saying "bygones" to this thread. There is no perfect solution, only hypothesis as of this day and time.

Yea, a few more. We have to take into account that many, many people are currently driving high, so if pot is legalized we will see some sort of incremental increase which may or may not be very large.

And, the profitability of the cartels WILL drop. Currently, they hold the virtual monopoly on recreational weed sales in the United States. If it's legalized, would you rather buy your marijuana from an illegal crime syndicate that jacks up the prices through shady dealers, or go to a trusted retail outlet with ingredients/processes that are inspected by the gov't & sell at fair market pricing?

The revenues of the cartels will drop in an extremely dramatic fashion given that marijuana is their #1 money maker. That's a fact (I don't think there's much speculation on that front).

I mean, I don't think there exists any powerful alcohol bootleggers in the US; we haven't seen that type of thing since the end of alcohol prohibition...

.

 

[KevinWestern]

In order to take the profit motive away from the cartels and keep it with the sick people who need it, marijuana outlets were set up as collectives. Those who grew it, donated it to the collective to be sold to those who didn't grow it.

The pot shops largely get their product from the professional cartel growers and sell marijuana over the counter and any other kind of drug they can get their hands on under the counter. Many outlets have expanded into weapons too. That's a bigger profit margin. Pot legalization is working basically the same way it worked in Amsterdam.

Hi Katz,

If marijuana is legalized I can assure you that the cartels, the illegal activities, the lead dusting (which is illegal), it will all be out of the picture (with regards to pot in the US).

We will see legal & non-violent growers pop up, legal distribution networks, and legal retail outlets.

Law abiding companies want NOTHING to do with illegal, non-law abiding companies because doing business with those entities lead to a slew of problems:

1.) You can't bring them to court, hold them accountable
2.) You can't transact in the normal fashion, any tax reporting activities will get flagged
3.) Illegal companies deal in intimidation and violence, which is generally best avoided in the business place.

What's your point?


.

You are dreaming. You are dreaming of what you want instead of the reality that will be. Meanwhile, as a pot user, you should really get tested for lead poisoning.

What am I 'dreaming' about (explain Katz, your not elaborating enough)?

Why the heck would a fully legal American company choose to work with an illegal crime syndicate for marijuana when there would be other safer legal growers to choose from that are bound by US laws?

Also, how many powerful illegal alcohol companies do you know of in the US (I really challenge you to answer this question)? Do you think it's a coincidence that the illegal alcohol business took a plunge after it was... legalized?

Al Capone never would have existed without Prohibition. Remember that..
.

 

[jwoodie]

What makes any of you think that legalized marijuana would be produced and marketed any differently than tobacco?