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Again, you would have to prove you acquired the gun after UBCs were mandated. And good luck with that.If you support imposing universal background checks on all gun sales, whether through a dealer or not, I have a question for you.
Say I meet up with Turtledude; he and I buy a gun off each other, get a beer, and go home.
How does the government prove that background checks were not run before we sold the guns?
Because they will legislate it and require proofs.
If you don't have the proofs when or if you're checked out... well you get it.
It also puts the burden of proof on the gun owner, which is not how criminal law works.
No that's not how law works.Again, you would have to prove you acquired the gun after UBCs were mandated. And good luck with that.If you support imposing universal background checks on all gun sales, whether through a dealer or not, I have a question for you.
Say I meet up with Turtledude; he and I buy a gun off each other, get a beer, and go home.
How does the government prove that background checks were not run before we sold the guns?
Because they will legislate it and require proofs.
If you don't have the proofs when or if you're checked out... well you get it.
It also puts the burden of proof on the gun owner, which is not how criminal law works.
There's no good luck since the burden of proof is on the gun owner.
I mean, that's a fundamental of such mandates. The criminality is at the point of possession which is 9/10ths of the law.
This is just another doorway for the government to control possessions at the point of their legislated criminality.
How does the stqate prove the sale was made?Because they will legislate it and require proofs.If you support imposing universal background checks on all gun sales, whether through a dealer or not, I have a question for you.
Say I meet up with Turtledude; he and I buy a gun off each other, get a beer, and go home.
How does the government prove that background checks were not run before we sold the guns?
If you don't have the proofs when or if you're checked out... well you get it.
How does the state porve either of us ever owned the guns we sold?
How does the state prove the guns were sold after the BGC was required?
Not with the facts as you present them. Of course I dealt with the issue above when I wrote about those who think they are smarter than everyone else. I'll post a scenario which you won't consider, but others will:
TD brings the gun home and hides it from his SO, who is afraid of guns and doesn't want one in their home. Two weeks later she finds the gun hidden in TD's closet and has a fit.
One thing leads to another and the argument is loud enough to alarm the neighbor who calls the police. When the police arrive and see the gun on the bed where it had been placed, they immediately cuff both TD and his SO and secure the weapon.
The officer asked the SO what happened and she reported how she found the gun and when she showed it to him he grabbed her arm, causing a red mark and a scratch.
The officers then arrested TD for domestic Violence. The gun was checked into evidence and the tech routinely ran the serial number; it came back as stolen. TD was then charged with Possession of Stolen Property as well as DV, and when interviewed by the investigators told them he had recently purchased the gun from M14.
Yep, and here's the description: "Bought it from a guy on Craigslist...name's Thomas, went by TJ. Never got his last name. He's stocky white guy with glasses; we met in a BJ's parking lot in Portland. Dude had dark hair, wore a red Patriots hat, gray T-shirt, glasses, jeans, and boots. Had a faint Southern drawl. Drove a black minivan...don't recall the plate. Didn't look local, though." Good luck making anything of THAT.
You've never been on your knees in the bathroom have you? Oh yes, you have.Not with the facts as you present them. Of course I dealt with the issue above when I wrote about those who think they are smarter than everyone else. I'll post a scenario which you won't consider, but others will:
TD brings the gun home and hides it from his SO, who is afraid of guns and doesn't want one in their home. Two weeks later she finds the gun hidden in TD's closet and has a fit.
One thing leads to another and the argument is loud enough to alarm the neighbor who calls the police. When the police arrive and see the gun on the bed where it had been placed, they immediately cuff both TD and his SO and secure the weapon.
The officer asked the SO what happened and she reported how she found the gun and when she showed it to him he grabbed her arm, causing a red mark and a scratch.
The officers then arrested TD for domestic Violence. The gun was checked into evidence and the tech routinely ran the serial number; it came back as stolen. TD was then charged with Possession of Stolen Property as well as DV, and when interviewed by the investigators told them he had recently purchased the gun from M14.
Yep, and here's the description: "Bought it from a guy on Craigslist...name's Thomas, went by TJ. Never got his last name. He's stocky white guy with glasses; we met in a BJ's parking lot in Portland. Dude had dark hair, wore a red Patriots hat, gray T-shirt, glasses, jeans, and boots. Had a faint Southern drawl. Drove a black minivan...don't recall the plate. Didn't look local, though." Good luck making anything of THAT.
LOL, you've never been on either side of an interview, which moved with precision to an interrogation, have you?
Want universal background checks? A question....
Camera.Want universal background checks? A question....
Want universal speed limits? A question...
If you support imposing universal speed limits on all highways, whether streets or interstates, I have a question for you.
Say I meet up with Turtledude; he and I go drag racing (speeding) late at night on a secluded highway, get a beer, and go home.
How does the government prove that we were drag racing (speeding) before we got beer and went home?
I would also require insurance for that gun. Everyone who owns a gun should have to take out insurance to cover any damage or death caused by that gun.
Most gun owners have it.
I would also require insurance for that gun. Everyone who owns a gun should have to take out insurance to cover any damage or death caused by that gun.
Most gun owners have it.
Camera.Want universal background checks? A question....
Want universal speed limits? A question...
If you support imposing universal speed limits on all highways, whether streets or interstates, I have a question for you.
Say I meet up with Turtledude; he and I go drag racing (speeding) late at night on a secluded highway, get a beer, and go home.
How does the government prove that we were drag racing (speeding) before we got beer and went home?
You're an idiot. That much we know.
Because you hate poor people?I would also require insurance for that gun. Everyone who owns a gun should have to take out insurance to cover any damage or death caused by that gun.
Most gun owners have it.
Well that's good.
I would like to see it mandated by law just like auto insurance.
Again, you would have to prove you acquired the gun after UBCs were mandated. And good luck with that.If you support imposing universal background checks on all gun sales, whether through a dealer or not, I have a question for you.
Say I meet up with Turtledude; he and I buy a gun off each other, get a beer, and go home.
How does the government prove that background checks were not run before we sold the guns?
Because they will legislate it and require proofs.
If you don't have the proofs when or if you're checked out... well you get it.
It also puts the burden of proof on the gun owner, which is not how criminal law works.
There's no good luck since the burden of proof is on the gun owner.
I mean, that's a fundamental of such mandates. The criminality is at the point of possession which is 9/10ths of the law.
This is just another doorway for the government to control possessions at the point of their legislated purchase or fall into criminality.
No I've never been to a gun show.
Are all the sellers at the gun shows dealers or are there private sales going on too?
If the background check for gun shows isn't needed then what's your problem? Why are you upset about it if the loophole has been closed? Which I don't believe it has been.
You and people like you are all up in arms about something that you claim isn't needed and is happening already. If it is, then why are you upset?
KatrinaCan you tell all of us when anyone has confiscated a gun from a law abiding citizen?
It wont.I just wonder what all these right wingers will do if that ballot initiative in Washington passes by a vote of the people.
If you support imposing universal background checks on all gun sales, whether through a dealer or not, I have a question for you.
Say I meet up with Turtledude; he and I buy a gun off each other, get a beer, and go home.
How does the government prove that background checks were not run before we sold the guns?
The answer is stunningly simple.
The new state IDs can be tied to very federal database we have. How hard would it be to design an app for your Droid? Slide the ID like a credit card, bam you've ran an NCIC check on that person...
I bet Google could design that app in a week for less than $1K
Or we could let the government contract it out and it would end up costing a trillion bucks and not work worth a fuck.
I guess it depends on which initiative you are talking about. There are two separate up for vote. One requiring BGC on private transfers and one that would forbid any requirements above Fed law. It is possible that both could actually pass as it's not either or but separate measures. State law makers would then have a mess on their handsI just wonder what all these right wingers will do if that ballot initiative in Washington passes by a vote of the people.
Keep in mind, gun nutters are paranoid as hell. They hear government "database" and they freak out.
It's called the NICS -- which should be tied to all state level courts issuing restraining orders and domestic violence convictions. We should not rely on states to report their wife-beaters, drunks, addicts, and stalkers.
This should be instant--court reporters enter a conviction or judges order and bam!-- are are banned from buying guns or ammo ANYWHERE. If someone sells to you, they go to jail.
