We need less college and more reality

[fncceo]

I recently, within the last five years, went back to school for a second bachelors degree. Admittedly, it was in a STEM path, Nursing, but it was a college with liberal arts programs as well. There are, elements of craziness on campuses among the students and faculty. But, I would say it's not any more crazy (perhaps less so) than it was when I went through the first time in the late '70s. I doubt it was any different in the '20s when college students were swallowing goldfish and learning to 'Charleston' while wearing a raccoon skin coat.

College attracts different kind of people. Many are kids away from home for the first time, aimless, and just looking for an identity of their own and will latch onto the one most guaranteed to piss off mommy and daddy ... it's the way they achieve their independence.

Some, are there to get the paper so they can get into the most lucrative career path they can imagine. For them, college is a check point before getting into a real job. They are less likely to become active members in the Lesbian Wiccan Authors' Reading Circle and more likely already starting to network in their chosen fields.

Still others are there to study for study's sake. They were good at study in High School, the scholastic success is what defined them then and they seek more of it now. There's quite a rush for some people to be on the Dean's List four years in a row. They soak up everything they're taught but aren't going to waste time protesting Non-Free Trade Peruvian Pan Flutes or other such egregious social injustices. When they're not in class, they're in study groups.

For everyone, it's a chance to be exposed to a lot of ideas that they normally wouldn't be exposed to elsewhere. I appreciate still today what I learned in Art History as I do what I learned in Advanced FORTRAN Programming. More so in fact, because while I still love and appreciate art, I haven't programmed in FORTRAN since 1982.

They call it University, because, if you do it properly, you will get a 'universal' education. Biology and Blake. Einstein and Emerson. None of that education is a waste. Even if you work your entire life developing new and better food preservatives for Monsanto, you will still be able to look at a Jackson Pollock and see as more than dripped paint.

College isn't for everyone, but for those who attend, it can be one of the best parts of their childhood.

 

[gulfman]

When I order a pizza I want the delivery driver to be college educated.A masters degree.Able to speak latin and recite Shakespeare when he gets here.

 

[Toro]

This is a subject I've discussed before with several of my FB friends. My current occupation with the NFTA has me convinced more than ever that vocational/ trades careers are not being emphasized enough in the schools because in my opinion it's always "college this and college that". Has been since even before I was a senior some 32 years ago. And that is doing a disservice to our people. No wonder why the building trades are in such high demand right now-shortage of new apprentices to bring up in the ranks. NFTA is experiencing a driver shortage, as is all student, transit, and motorcoach companies/agencies. For example, even with my class and the next two classes behind me, there won't be enough drivers to cover the extra board for very long. Again, if a 19-21 year old has his/her license, that person can easily turn a 35-40 year career and not be saddled with tens of thousands of dollars in college loan debt and a worthless degree. I'm not knocking college, there are fields that require a degree, but why push it as the end all to a better life?

Here's how much your less education gets from us.

$0

 

[fncceo]

When I order a pizza I want the delivery driver to be college educated.A masters degree.Able to speak latin and recite Shakespeare when he gets here.

The thing is ... if your pizza guy has a master's degree and is fluent in Latin as well as being able to quote all the naughty bits from Shakespeare, you will know he's delivering pizza out of his own free will and not because he has no other economic choices.

Personally, there are days when I believe a pizza guy gets more out his job than I do. On the other hand, I watch too much porn.

 

[joaquinmiller]

If you can go to college, you should. It will enrich your life one way or another.

 

[BorisTheAnimal]

If you can go to college, you should. It will enrich your life one way or another.

How? Why should I fork over tens of thousands of dollars just to hear some anti American Leftist "professor" spewing venom over the evils of America and how we need to be a Communist nation?

 

[Olde Europe]

If you can go to college, you should. It will enrich your life one way or another.

Yeah, there is something to that. Curiosity, a desire to understand things, and delight with learning and applying intellectual rigor sure help. Without that, the result is just (more) useful idiots.

The main point, though, is the age-old false dichotomy of college v. reality, a staple of anti-intellectualism for almost as long as colleges exist. Like we see play out on the occasion of the fires raging through California right now, with "reality" opting for "remove anything that burns - problem solved", and the Trumpy (where else?) on the forefront of it, while a solid education and research inform us that the picture is way more complex. If you are fine with "reality", and rather wouldn't hear about anything beyond that, stay away from college; it's going to be misery.

 

[joaquinmiller]

If you can go to college, you should. It will enrich your life one way or another.

Yeah, there is something to that. Curiosity, a desire to understand things, and delight with learning and applying intellectual rigor sure help. Without that, the result is just (more) useful idiots.

The main point, though, is the age-old false dichotomy of college v. reality, a staple of anti-intellectualism for almost as long as colleges exist. Like we see play out on the occasion of the fires raging through California right now, with "reality" opting for "remove anything that burns - problem solved", and the Trumpy (where else?) on the forefront of it, while a solid education and research inform us that the picture is way more complex. If you are fine with "reality", and rather wouldn't hear about anything beyond that, stay away from college; it's going to be misery.

Yes, those who know it all have nothing to gain.

 

[Olde Europe]

Yes, those who know it all have nothing to gain.

Damn.

I need two paragraphs to say the same thing. Is there a School of Pith you can recommend?

 

[initforme]

The heck with college. Working for 15 or 20 bucks an hour for some scumball corporation for 30 years will provide a great life. Laughing hysterically. Some of these posts are so dumb it's unreal.

 

[Wry Catcher]

When I order a pizza I want the delivery driver to be college educated.A masters degree.Able to speak latin and recite Shakespeare when he gets here.

And I suppose you wanted and received a president of the United States to be dumb, and got your wish on 20 Jan 2017.

 

[Pilot1]

I'd rather kids learn a good trade, skill, or craft than get a worthless Liberal Art Degree like "Gender, and Minority Studies" that so many get today. It is worthless as today's universities don't even teach proper writing, and speaking skills. It is a JOKE. They are more concerned with PC, diversity, multi culturalism crap, and fake "inclusiveness" that it is hurting the ability to educate properly.

 

[Wry Catcher]

If you can go to college, you should. It will enrich your life one way or another.

How? Why should I fork over tens of thousands of dollars just to hear some anti American Leftist "professor" spewing venom over the evils of America and how we need to be a Communist nation?

Q. Why you asked

A. You wouldn't express yourself as the biddable fool you did in post #26.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I'd rather kids learn a good trade, skill, or craft than get a worthless Liberal Art Degree like "Gender, and Minority Studies" that so many get today. It is worthless as today's universities don't even teach proper writing, and speaking skills. It is a JOKE. They are more concerned with PC, diversity, multi culturalism crap, and fake "inclusiveness" that it is hurting the ability to educate properly.

Apparently you have no understanding of a liberal arts degree. Social sciences, hard sciences and the arts open one's mind, and that is why those who have these degrees lead and others (like you?) are easily led by demagogues and charlatans.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

This is a subject I've discussed before with several of my FB friends. My current occupation with the NFTA has me convinced more than ever that vocational/ trades careers are not being emphasized enough in the schools because in my opinion it's always "college this and college that". Has been since even before I was a senior some 32 years ago. And that is doing a disservice to our people. No wonder why the building trades are in such high demand right now-shortage of new apprentices to bring up in the ranks. NFTA is experiencing a driver shortage, as is all student, transit, and motorcoach companies/agencies. For example, even with my class and the next two classes behind me, there won't be enough drivers to cover the extra board for very long. Again, if a 19-21 year old has his/her license, that person can easily turn a 35-40 year career and not be saddled with tens of thousands of dollars in college loan debt and a worthless degree. I'm not knocking college, there are fields that require a degree, but why push it as the end all to a better life?

Nonsense.

We need young people pursuing careers consistent with their desires and abilities, whether college or vocational.

 

[Wry Catcher]

This is a subject I've discussed before with several of my FB friends. My current occupation with the NFTA has me convinced more than ever that vocational/ trades careers are not being emphasized enough in the schools because in my opinion it's always "college this and college that". Has been since even before I was a senior some 32 years ago. And that is doing a disservice to our people. No wonder why the building trades are in such high demand right now-shortage of new apprentices to bring up in the ranks. NFTA is experiencing a driver shortage, as is all student, transit, and motorcoach companies/agencies. For example, even with my class and the next two classes behind me, there won't be enough drivers to cover the extra board for very long. Again, if a 19-21 year old has his/her license, that person can easily turn a 35-40 year career and not be saddled with tens of thousands of dollars in college loan debt and a worthless degree. I'm not knocking college, there are fields that require a degree, but why push it as the end all to a better life?

Nonsense.

We need young people pursuing careers consistent with their desires and abilities, whether college or vocational.

I agree, with this caveat: Everyone in a democracy needs a liberal arts education. AP courses for those who know they will attend a college or U., and a general ed. curriculum which are less demanding and yet provide a necessary and sufficient education to succeed in a U. or a 4-year college.

See a new thread on "how do we fix public education" soon to be posted on the clean zone.

 

[Karl Rand]

There’s an old Hungarian saying “The fish rots from the head down”. Putting that in the context of this thread I suggest University education fell into a dark age when the M BA’s took over their management. The focus on bums on seats and profit no matter what has bleached tertiary education of it’s meaning and value. Apart from a few subjects, such as medicine and physics, we now have a mish-mash of pseudo-intellectual drivel being pushed as learning and the quality of most arts degrees not worth the paper they’re printed on.
We can’t however blame the M BA’s for 100% of this mess. The newfound snobbery of the working class in thinking any trade such as building etc is beneath them is at work here. Better to have unemployable offspring with a degree in deconstructionist philosophy than a working family member earning a decent living? “Oh Yes, our little Cicely is studying at university” should be met these days with ‘So what?"

 

[BorisTheAnimal]

I'd rather kids learn a good trade, skill, or craft than get a worthless Liberal Art Degree like "Gender, and Minority Studies" that so many get today. It is worthless as today's universities don't even teach proper writing, and speaking skills. It is a JOKE. They are more concerned with PC, diversity, multi culturalism crap, and fake "inclusiveness" that it is hurting the ability to educate properly.

Apparently you have no understanding of a liberal arts degree. Social sciences, hard sciences and the arts open one's mind, and that is why those who have these degrees lead and others (like you?) are easily led by demagogues and charlatans.

Folks, here we have another nose in the air asshole snob who thinks a college education is the end all be all.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I'd rather kids learn a good trade, skill, or craft than get a worthless Liberal Art Degree like "Gender, and Minority Studies" that so many get today. It is worthless as today's universities don't even teach proper writing, and speaking skills. It is a JOKE. They are more concerned with PC, diversity, multi culturalism crap, and fake "inclusiveness" that it is hurting the ability to educate properly.

Apparently you have no understanding of a liberal arts degree. Social sciences, hard sciences and the arts open one's mind, and that is why those who have these degrees lead and others (like you?) are easily led by demagogues and charlatans.

Folks, here we have another nose in the air asshole snob who thinks a college education is the end all be all.

With my nose on the grind stone I disagree. I never once said, "a college education is the end all be all". I said that a liberal arts degree creates leaders; not that a leader cannot be someone without a formal education.

Lincoln is an example, and Palin and Joe the Plumber are examples of those who were not; Trump is an example of one with an education and not a leader.

 

[Slyhunter]

I'd rather kids learn a good trade, skill, or craft than get a worthless Liberal Art Degree like "Gender, and Minority Studies" that so many get today. It is worthless as today's universities don't even teach proper writing, and speaking skills. It is a JOKE. They are more concerned with PC, diversity, multi culturalism crap, and fake "inclusiveness" that it is hurting the ability to educate properly.

Apparently you have no understanding of a liberal arts degree. Social sciences, hard sciences and the arts open one's mind, and that is why those who have these degrees lead and others (like you?) are easily led by demagogues and charlatans.

Folks, here we have another nose in the air asshole snob who thinks a college education is the end all be all.

With my nose on the grind stone I disagree. I never once said, "a college education is the end all be all". I said that a liberal arts degree creates leaders; not that a leader cannot be someone without a formal education.

Lincoln is an example, and Palin and Joe the Plumber are examples of those who were not; Trump is an example of one with an education and not a leader.

Trump is definitely a leader. Your bias is showing.
Leaders are who they are with or without education.