Welcome To The Bush-Obama White House: They're Spying On Us...

[paulitician]

Fascinating, but also very disturbing column by Ron Fournier.


The "Bush-Obama era" will be long remembered for curbing the Constitution.

Welcome to the era of Bush-Obama, a 16-year span of U.S. history that will be remembered for an unprecedented erosion of civil liberties and a disregard for transparency. On the war against a tactic—terrorism—and its insidious fallout, the United States could have skipped the 2008 election.

It made little difference.

Despite his clear and popular promises to the contrary, President Obama has not shifted the balance between security and freedom to a more natural state—one not blinded by worst fears and tarred by power grabs. If anything, things have gotten worse.

Killing civilians and U.S. citizens via drone.

Seizing telephone records at the Associated Press in violation of Justice Department guidelines.

Accusing a respected Fox News reporter of engaging in a conspiracy to commit treason for doing his job.

Detaining terrorist suspects at Guantanamo Bay, despite promises to end the ill-considered Bush policy.


Even the IRS scandal, while not a matter of foreign policy, strikes at the heart of growing concerns among Americans that their privacy is government's playpen.

And now this: The Guardian newspaper reports that the National Security Agency is collecting telephone records of tens of millions of customers of one of the nation's largest phone companies, Verizon.

For several reasons the news is chilling.

1. Verizon probably isn't the only company coughing up its documents. Odds are incredibly strong that the government is prying into your telephone records today.

2. Issued in April, the NSA order "could represent the broadest surveillance order known to have been issued," according to The Washington Post. "It also would confirm long-standing suspicions of civil liberties advocates about the sweeping nature of U.S. surveillance through commercial carries under laws passed after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks."

3. This appears to be a "rubber stamp," order, reissued every few months since 2001. As is the case with all government programs, the systematic snooping into your telephone records is unlikely to ever expire without public outcry...

Read More:
Welcome to the Bush-Obama White House: They're Spying on Us - NationalJournal.com
DRUDGE REPORT 2013®

 

[mudwhistle]

Well, since it's Obama it doesn't matter......

 

[jwoodie]

Still Bush's Fault? Can't you come up with some new material?

 

[paulitician]

Well, since it's Obama it doesn't matter......

I know many will feel that way. And that's just very sad.

 

[edthecynic]

While it started with Bush, at this point it is the phone companies who want the court order renewed every 3 months.

Verizon providing all call records to U.S. under court order - The Washington Post

An expert in this aspect of the law said Wednesday night that the order appears to be a routine renewal of a similar order first issued by the same court in 2006. The expert, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive issues, said that the order is reissued routinely every 90 days and that it is not related to any particular investigation by the FBI or any other agency.

The expert referred to such orders as “rubber stamps” sought by the telephone companies to protect themselves after the disclosure in 2005 that widespread warrantless wiretaps could leave them liable for damages.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Everyone knows this and each side tries to deny the spying shit. It's sad.

not sure on those other "scandals" tho

 

[blastoff]

Let's not forget slick Willie Clinton too.

60 MINUTES

Television Broadcast February 27, 2000

ECHELON; WORLDWIDE CONVERSATIONS BEING RECEIVED BY THE ECHELON SYSTEM MAY FALL INTO THE WRONG HANDS AND INNOCENT PEOPLE MAY BE TAGGED AS SPIES

STEVE KROFT, co-host:

If you made a phone call today or sent an e-mail to a friend, there's a good chance what you said or wrote was captured and screened by the country's largest intelligence agency. The top-secret Global Surveillance Network is called Echelon, and it's run by the National Security Agency and four English-speaking allies: Canada, Great Britain, Australia and New Zealand.

The mission is to eavesdrop on enemies of the state: foreign countries, terrorist groups and drug cartels. But in the process, Echelon's computers capture virtually every electronic conversation around the world.

The rest of the story...
http://cryptome.org/echelon-60min.htm

Watched it live that night and figured all hell would break loose the next day. But virtually nothing happened.

 

[g5000]

Still Bush's Fault? Can't you come up with some new material?

It is very surprising to me that the media and some of the more brain damaged rubes are acting as if this latest Verizon phone records thing is something brand new.

It seems to confirm my suspicion such people have found a way to induce willful amnesia in themselves. A truly fascinating phenomena.

Let's take just a short trip back in time to 2006:

NSA has massive database of Americans' phone calls

The National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth, people with direct knowledge of the arrangement told USA TODAY.

The NSA program reaches into homes and businesses across the nation by amassing information about the calls of ordinary Americans — most of whom aren't suspected of any crime. This program does not involve the NSA listening to or recording conversations. But the spy agency is using the data to analyze calling patterns in an effort to detect terrorist activity, sources said in separate interviews.

"It's the largest database ever assembled in the world," said one person, who, like the others who agreed to talk about the NSA's activities, declined to be identified by name or affiliation. The agency's goal is "to create a database of every call ever made" within the nation's borders, this person added.

Among the big telecommunications companies, only Qwest has refused to help the NSA, the sources said. According to multiple sources, Qwest declined to participate because it was uneasy about the legal implications of handing over customer information to the government without warrants.

Qwest's refusal to participate has left the NSA with a hole in its database. Based in Denver, Qwest provides local phone service to 14 million customers in 14 states in the West and Northwest. But AT&T and Verizon also provide some services — primarily long-distance and wireless — to people who live in Qwest's region. Therefore, they can provide the NSA with at least some access in that area.

After searching your phone records, Bush asked Congress to give retroactive immunity to the telecommunications companies which turned over your records:

The Bush administration maintains that the changes are consistent with FISA's intent--that targeting foreign communications doesn't require a warrant--and that a warrant is still required for "targeting a person in the United States." But civil-liberties advocates argue that the government is creating a loophole to monitor Americans' e-mails and phone calls to overseas contacts without the intended court approval.

The new law also immunizes from legal liability the private companies that assist the government with surveillance going forward, but Bush repeated existing calls for making that policy retroactive as well.

"It's particularly important for Congress to provide meaningful liability protection to those companies now facing multibillion-dollar lawsuits only because they are believed to have assisted in efforts to defend our nation, following the 9/11 attacks," Bush said.

The Electronic Frontier Foundation, which has sued AT&T over its allegedly illegal cooperation with the government, says references to the crippling liability posed by such suits suggest that the scope of the wiretapping is "massive."

Congress passed the law, giving them that immunity.


And all the people outraged over the Fox News thing have had to hit themselves REALLY REALLY hard in the head to forget the Valerie Plame affair.

 

[paulitician]

The Government/Corporate Complex. They work very closely together to screw Citizens. The Government and Corporations are really just one single entity at this point. When will the People rise up and say enough is enough?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Fascinating, but also very disturbing column by Ron Fournier.


The "Bush-Obama era" will be long remembered for curbing the Constitution.

Welcome to the era of Bush-Obama, a 16-year span of U.S. history that will be remembered for an unprecedented erosion of civil liberties and a disregard for transparency. On the war against a tactic—terrorism—and its insidious fallout, the United States could have skipped the 2008 election.

It made little difference.

Despite his clear and popular promises to the contrary, President Obama has not shifted the balance between security and freedom to a more natural state—one not blinded by worst fears and tarred by power grabs. If anything, things have gotten worse.

Killing civilians and U.S. citizens via drone.

Seizing telephone records at the Associated Press in violation of Justice Department guidelines.

Accusing a respected Fox News reporter of engaging in a conspiracy to commit treason for doing his job.

Detaining terrorist suspects at Guantanamo Bay, despite promises to end the ill-considered Bush policy.


Even the IRS scandal, while not a matter of foreign policy, strikes at the heart of growing concerns among Americans that their privacy is government's playpen.

And now this: The Guardian newspaper reports that the National Security Agency is collecting telephone records of tens of millions of customers of one of the nation's largest phone companies, Verizon.

For several reasons the news is chilling.

1. Verizon probably isn't the only company coughing up its documents. Odds are incredibly strong that the government is prying into your telephone records today.

2. Issued in April, the NSA order "could represent the broadest surveillance order known to have been issued," according to The Washington Post. "It also would confirm long-standing suspicions of civil liberties advocates about the sweeping nature of U.S. surveillance through commercial carries under laws passed after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks."

3. This appears to be a "rubber stamp," order, reissued every few months since 2001. As is the case with all government programs, the systematic snooping into your telephone records is unlikely to ever expire without public outcry...

Read More:
Welcome to the Bush-Obama White House: They're Spying on Us - NationalJournal.com
DRUDGE REPORT 2013®

How the hell is Obama obtaining the phone records of people with court approval the same as Bush obtaining the actual content of phone conversations without court approval? Do you understand the difference between with court approval and without? Do you know the difference between reading someone's phone bill and actually listening to their conversations?
No law has been broken here If your issue is with the LAW - then fine, let's change it.

 

[paulitician]

Fascinating, but also very disturbing column by Ron Fournier.


The "Bush-Obama era" will be long remembered for curbing the Constitution.

Welcome to the era of Bush-Obama, a 16-year span of U.S. history that will be remembered for an unprecedented erosion of civil liberties and a disregard for transparency. On the war against a tactic—terrorism—and its insidious fallout, the United States could have skipped the 2008 election.

It made little difference.

Despite his clear and popular promises to the contrary, President Obama has not shifted the balance between security and freedom to a more natural state—one not blinded by worst fears and tarred by power grabs. If anything, things have gotten worse.

Killing civilians and U.S. citizens via drone.

Seizing telephone records at the Associated Press in violation of Justice Department guidelines.

Accusing a respected Fox News reporter of engaging in a conspiracy to commit treason for doing his job.

Detaining terrorist suspects at Guantanamo Bay, despite promises to end the ill-considered Bush policy.


Even the IRS scandal, while not a matter of foreign policy, strikes at the heart of growing concerns among Americans that their privacy is government's playpen.

And now this: The Guardian newspaper reports that the National Security Agency is collecting telephone records of tens of millions of customers of one of the nation's largest phone companies, Verizon.

For several reasons the news is chilling.

1. Verizon probably isn't the only company coughing up its documents. Odds are incredibly strong that the government is prying into your telephone records today.

2. Issued in April, the NSA order "could represent the broadest surveillance order known to have been issued," according to The Washington Post. "It also would confirm long-standing suspicions of civil liberties advocates about the sweeping nature of U.S. surveillance through commercial carries under laws passed after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks."

3. This appears to be a "rubber stamp," order, reissued every few months since 2001. As is the case with all government programs, the systematic snooping into your telephone records is unlikely to ever expire without public outcry...

Read More:
Welcome to the Bush-Obama White House: They're Spying on Us - NationalJournal.com
DRUDGE REPORT 2013®

How the hell is Obama obtaining the phone records of people with court approval the same as Bush obtaining the actual content of phone conversations without court approval? Do you understand the difference between with court approval and without? Do you know the difference between reading someone's phone bill and actually listening to their conversations?
No law has been broken here If your issue is with the LAW - then fine, let's change it.

Ah, you're still trapped in that ole 'D' VS. 'R' Box. Spying is spying. It's not good. These are very dark times for our Nation.

 

[paulitician]

The Government has to take your rights away in order to protect them. The Government gives you more War, so you can have more Peace.

Man, what a sad Catch 22 scam.

 

[P@triot]

While it started with Bush, at this point it is the phone companies who want the court order renewed every 3 months.

Verizon providing all call records to U.S. under court order - The Washington Post

An expert in this aspect of the law said Wednesday night that the order appears to be a routine renewal of a similar order first issued by the same court in 2006. The expert, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive issues, said that the order is reissued routinely every 90 days and that it is not related to any particular investigation by the FBI or any other agency.

The expert referred to such orders as “rubber stamps” sought by the telephone companies to protect themselves after the disclosure in 2005 that widespread warrantless wiretaps could leave them liable for damages.

Are you seriously blaming the phone companies now?!?! When Bush does it - Bush is evil. When Obama does it - it's not his fault, it's the phone companies doing it....?!?!

 

[mudwhistle]

Somebody explain how Obama doing this is not his fault simply because it was a Bush program Obama is currently abusing?

Is Obama not accountable for his own actions?

If the guy who had my job before me was a thief must I be a thief too?

 

[paulitician]

It's all about the Government/Corporate Complex. Government and Corporations are one entity. It is what it is.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Somebody explain how Obama doing this is not his fault simply because it was a Bush program Obama is currently abusing?

Is Obama not accountable for his own actions?

If the guy who had my job before me was a thief must I be a thief too?

Two posts you've typed and both focus on Obama. I'm sure there is a totally legit reason why that is. You never mention Bush. I'm sure there is a totally legit reason why you are ignoring that.

its NOT that you're a hack...no, no way

 

[edthecynic]

While it started with Bush, at this point it is the phone companies who want the court order renewed every 3 months.

Verizon providing all call records to U.S. under court order - The Washington Post

An expert in this aspect of the law said Wednesday night that the order appears to be a routine renewal of a similar order first issued by the same court in 2006. The expert, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive issues, said that the order is reissued routinely every 90 days and that it is not related to any particular investigation by the FBI or any other agency.

The expert referred to such orders as “rubber stamps” sought by the telephone companies to protect themselves after the disclosure in 2005 that widespread warrantless wiretaps could leave them liable for damages.

Are you seriously blaming the phone companies now?!?! When Bush does it - Bush is evil. When Obama does it - it's not his fault, it's the phone companies doing it....?!?!

Can't you read, the phone companies are trying to cover their asses.

 

[editec]

Our Constiutional rights started seriously eroding thanks to the WAR ON DRUGS.

Most Americans at the time were not only sanguine with that, they APPROVED IT.

Some on this very board have expressed delight in the WAR on DRUGS

They were idiots then and they are still fucking idiots.

Cryptofacists, most of them, and they no doubt think they love FREEDOM, too..just so long as the right kind of people have it.

 

[Lovebears65]

While it started with Bush, at this point it is the phone companies who want the court order renewed every 3 months.

Verizon providing all call records to U.S. under court order - The Washington Post

An expert in this aspect of the law said Wednesday night that the order appears to be a routine renewal of a similar order first issued by the same court in 2006. The expert, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive issues, said that the order is reissued routinely every 90 days and that it is not related to any particular investigation by the FBI or any other agency.

The expert referred to such orders as “rubber stamps” sought by the telephone companies to protect themselves after the disclosure in 2005 that widespread warrantless wiretaps could leave them liable for damages.

So it started with BUSH so to you its ok that OBAMA is still doing it . He has the power to stop it. I think BUSH was wrong for even starting this. OF course you OBAMA ass kisses dont see Obama do anything wrong

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Spying is spying. It's not good.

Yeah tell that to the tens of thousands of GIs whose lives were spared because of SPYING on the Germans in WW II.