Welcome To TrumpCare

[Wyatt earp]

What’s the GOP and the serial sex offender doing to provide Americans with health insurance?

???
What did George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln do to provide Americans with health insurance?
My answer to your question is "nothing I hope".

Well DOTaRd, there was no health insurance and the healthcare of the time probably involved bloodletting, leeches, confinement, and cold baths. Life expectancy was probably around 40 years. The founders did want government to promote the general welfare, which meant to improve the health, happiness, prosperity, and well being of the American people. And it worked. Today, we are far better off than our forefathers, but some idiots want to return to those "good old days."

 

[Rustic]

You are debating with a person who believes we should eliminate tax expenditures.

You are debating with a person who is a very passionate pro-lifer.

You are debating with a person who believes you should be allowed to buy and own as many guns as you wish.

You are debating with a person who believes there should be a WHOLE LOT LESS government in health care.

So stop making up fucking bullshit lies in your pointy heads about me, and join reality. I am simply baffled as to why the Tard Herd detests reality so fucking much.

Getting along is way overrated

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Yup, the more HusseinCare implodes, the more people will demand its repeal.

Time to bury that steaming pile of shit Obama left us on our doorstep.

Trump just said ObamaCare is repealed.

It's all his now. It's TrumpCare.

Enjoy your skyrocketing TrumpCare costs!

It hadnt even passed yet!! It's still Obamacare

 

[g5000]

Simple fact: Health care costs were skyrocketing for decades. Long before anyone even heard of a guy named Barack Obama.

Simple fact: The GOP never tried to do anything comprehensive about skyrocketing health care costs.

Simple fact: The Democrats telegraphed since at least the 70s that they would impose socialized medicine on all of us if they got the chance.

Simple fact: The GOP never did any comprehensive health care reform that would have killed the whole idea of socialize medicine.

Conclusion: The GOP sold us all down the river to socialized medicine decades ago. All the other noise they make is theater for the rubes.

And boy oh boy, just look at those rubes guzzling the piss!

See the federal government fucks up everything they touch

So tell me what my ideas are for health care reform.

I've posted my thoughts dozens, if not hundreds, of times about it.

See if you can shut off your Straw Man Fallacy machine and recall some reality.

I bet you can't.

You know how you fix the healthcare system... make everybody pay for their own shit. Lol

That's an unthinking throwaway sentence chock full of cowardice that does not address the FACT of rising health care costs.

No wonder you buy Trump's unthinking throwaway lies.

Trump before the election: "You'll have such great health care at a tiny fraction of the cost! And it will be so easy!"

Trump after the election: "Now, I have to tell you, it's an unbelievably complex subject. Nobody knew health care could be so complicated."

How the FUCK did Trump not know it was complicated?

And what an ego! If Trump didn't know it, NOBODY knew it.

Jesus H. Christ.

 

[The Derp]

You lying retard those are old links .

It's not our fault you bought into Obama care....and screw you if you think I am going to subsidies you.

You are already subsidizing us because our employer's are not taxed when providing the benefits to us, which are non-taxed income to us. Thanks, btw.

Bingo.

Employer sponsored health insurance is tax exempt. That means every taxpayer is subsidizing people who get their insurance from their employer. We all have to pay higher tax rates to make up for that tax exemption. Plus, we have to borrow from China and add to the debt.

But you see, the tards NEVER see THEIR government gifts as theft. Only the free shit given to others bothers them.

All socialist entitlement programs are theft

Indeed! Like the $1.4 trillion of tax expenditures which drive up our tax rates and cause heavy borrowing from China and other nations.

There is no such thing as a socialist entitlement program that is self-sufficient absolutely 100 percent impossible for them to stand up under their own weight

Medicare and Social Security have Trusts. That's literally the programs being self-sufficient.

What a goofball.

 

[The Derp]

See the federal government fucks up everything they touch

Conservatives say government is the problem, then get elected and prove it.

Awesome.

I just might thieve that.

Well, full disclosure, it's a PJ O'Rouke quote. I should have given him the credit. My bad.

 

[The Derp]

You progressives want all of these socialist entitlement programs but you have no way of paying for them. The well is dry

Do you even know what a health insurance company does? Doesn't seem like you do.

 

[The Derp]

I don't think there are any Republicans in congress fundamentally opposed to government.

Are you kidding? They run on the rhetoric "government is the problem". Conservatives have been, currently are, and will always be opposed to the institution of government because they don't believe that everyone should have an equal voice and equal rights. Conservatives literally believe that some people are entitled to more rights than others. That's why they say money is speech. If money is speech, then there is no such thing as free speech and some people have more speech than others. That's a fundamental contradiction of democratic values and principles.

Besides, idiot, I want less government, not simply "effective" government. I hope those who oppose the institution are the least likely to try to expand the institution.The most ineffective governments in the world are those ran by people who most support the institution of government. Idiot.

You don't even know what the fuck you want. You want big government for you and your interests, and limited government for everyone who isn't you. It's because Conservatism at its core is purely sociopathic. There is no such thing as empathy, and Conservatives are monstrous narcissistic sociopaths who only care about how things affect them personally. Like Nancy fuckin' Reagan who -for years- screeched against stem cell research...but then the second her husband could possibly be treated by discoveries from stem cell research, she came out in support of it. That's how it always is for Conservatives. They lack empathy because they're a bunch of monstrous egomaniacs.

 

[The Derp]

The concept of insurance(paying into a pool) has proven it cannot work, it is abused 100 percent of the time

How has it proven it cannot work when it's literally been the standard for 80 years?

 

[The Derp]

"I should be able to pick up the telephone..."

"...and see any doctor I want without having to enroll in an insurance plan first."

 

[bendog]

What I am pointing out in the OP is that repealing the mandate will not fulfill Trump's promise.

It does not repeal ObamaCare.

It does not replace ObamaCare.

And most importantly, it does not give you "great health care at a tiny fraction of the cost".

You have been massively hoaxed, rubes.

Enjoy your record high health care costs under TrumpCare!



"My first day in office, I'm going to ask Congress to put a bill on my desk getting rid of this disastrous law, and replacing it with reforms that expand choice, freedom, affordability. You're going to have such great health care at a tiny fraction of the cost, and it's going to be so easy."

If one is a dem, which neither of us are, Trumpcare is a good place to be.

The ironic thing, I guess, is that the gop congress critters never could reach a consensus about what to do with a healthcare system that was so fractured between corporate tax expenditures and a retiree govt sponsored system that rewards those who consume/provide the most treatment, and totally recipient free system serving both the poor and disabled, which crazily is the most cost effective in providing primary/preventative care to kids. (schips) The gop quasi-libertarians were pitted against the corporate paid corkercorrupters. And then there are the Susan Collins and Lamar Alexanders who really just want to help their constituents. LOL

And, of course, it turned out Trump didn't have any plan all along, which some of us suspected was the case.

So, I didn't find it surprising the gop couldn't find 51 votes for some replacement for Obamacare. And I'd given up all hope before 2008 they'd ever get it done.

 

[bendog]

"I should be able to pick up the telephone..."

"...and see any doctor I want without having to enroll in an insurance plan first."

And not pay for it!

 

[The Derp]

I am simply baffled as to why the Tard Herd detests reality so fucking much.

Simple; because life didn't turn out for them the way they were promised and they all have a bullshit, unearned sense of entitlement.

 

[The Derp]

"I should be able to pick up the telephone..."

"...and see any doctor I want without having to enroll in an insurance plan first."

And not pay for it!

No...see, it has to be paid for. With a payroll tax that everyone pays in lieu of premiums, co-pays, coinsurance, and drug costs. If Canada can do it, why can't we?

 

[bendog]

"I should be able to pick up the telephone..."

"...and see any doctor I want without having to enroll in an insurance plan first."

And not pay for it!

No...see, it has to be paid for. With a payroll tax that everyone pays in lieu of premiums, co-pays, coinsurance, and drug costs. If Canada can do it, why can't we?

I'm not making any excuse for the gop's failure to address the issue of costs or uninsured. That's what it is, and it should speak for itself unless one is so blindly partisan they'd rather have shit for dinner than find something better.

I don't think it's politically possible to convince votes who have an employer sponsored plan to voluntarily give it up. I do think that Krugman provided in Conscience of a Liberal a pretty compelling plan to enact universal coverage that covered anyone without one in a medicare for all system, and also allowing anyone to opt out of their employer sponsored plan and into the medicare for all. It is essentially a plan for socialized medicine, and certainly NOT in my self-interest, and I don't think it would effectively control costs because there'd not be any incentive to consume as much as one could.

I have the same disagreement with G5000 on convincing people to give up there employers tax expenditures.

I would not have expanded Medicare. I'm not much for schips. I'd take everyone off Medicaid who was not disabled. And instead I'd tax the 1% enough to provide some tax credit of say ... $600 per person ... to buy healthcare with. There'd still be some people getting sick who wouldn't have enough money, but they'd either be disabled or just have to be covered without ever paying their bills.

 

[The Derp]

I don't think it's politically possible to convince votes who have an employer sponsored plan to voluntarily give it up.

It is possible if people actually knew what it was their health insurance company really does. Most people (at least 90%, probably more) don't know the role an insurance company plays in health care. Literally, all we need to do is educate people as to what that role is and I think you'll see tons of support for a single payer. You hear people say "I like my doctor", but you never hear anyone say "I like my insurance company". Insurance companies bank on the ignorance of people who think they're intrinsically linked to the care they get from their doctor when that couldn't be any further from reality.

If you sit a typical person down and ask them if they think it's worth a 20% fee for a private company to merely administer payment to your doctor after they treat you, I'd bet 9 times out of 10 they'd say it's not worth that. And if you told those same people that Medicare does the exact same thing their insurance company does, but does it for a fraction the overhead, they'd wonder why everyone wasn't on Medicare in the first place.

 

[Seawytch]

“I shouldn’t say this,” Trump said, “but we essentially repealed Obamacare.”

Trump just told the truth. He may wish he hadn’t.

Enjoy your record high Trumpcare medical and insurance costs, rubes.

• Premiums for the most popular health insurance on the individual market exchanges are estimated to rise 34 percent on average next year, according to the consulting firm Avalere Health, because of previous sabotage done by the Trump administration. Premiums in Iowa would be up 69 percent, Wyoming 65 percent and Utah 64 percent.

• Employer-based health insurance costs are forecast to rise in 2018 by the most since 2011

Let me get this straight the same people who predicted Obamacare who decrease cost, when in fact it shot up costs, are now predicting doom and gloom.

I don’t think it is a good idea do away with Obamacare piecemeal, but i don’t put much stock in the so called experts.

Do think if they did away with the subsidy at this point and offered no alternative, there would be chaos.


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It DID decrease cost.

No. Obamacare never decreased costs.

...that rate of increase is actually much lower...

A slowed INCREASE in cost is not a DECREASE in cost.

Health care costs have been outpacing wages, GDP, and inflation for DECADES.

It cost less because of the ACA. You can potato/potato all you want but the increase in cost was lessened as a result of "Obamacare". That means it cost less than it would have.

The ACA had its problems that could have been fixed. The introduction of a public option into the exchanges for example, but the intent behind the bill was always good. Can the GOP say that for ANY of their plans, healthcare or otherwise?

 

[The Derp]

It cost less because of the ACA. You can potato/potato all you want but the increase in cost was lessened as a result of "Obamacare". That means it cost less than it would have.

The ACA had its problems that could have been fixed. The introduction of a public option into the exchanges for example, but the intent behind the bill was always good. Can the GOP say that for ANY of their plans, healthcare or otherwise?

I think the grand irony to the whole thing is that Conservatives have swung the pendulum so forcefully to the right with their incessant attacks on Obamacare that when it swings back left, the pendulum's going to break off. We're not going to end up with merely a Public Option, we're going to end up with Medicare Part-E (Medicare for all) and no private insurance companies at all.

 

[BulletProof]

Are you kidding? They run on the rhetoric "government is the problem".

I'm not stupid enough to confuse Republican pandering to conservatives with their real values.

Conservatives have been, currently are, and will always be opposed to the institution of government because they don't believe that everyone should have an equal voice and equal rights.

No, idiot. Conservatives oppose government because they don't want to be slaves to the government.

Conservatives literally believe that some people are entitled to more rights than others.

No, idiot. Liberals are the only people demanding more rights for one group over the next.

You don't even know what the fuck you want.

I know what I want. I want you to step on a rake so the handle flies off the ground and smacks you in your small head.

Conservatives. They lack empathy because they're a bunch of monstrous egomaniacs.

Liberals aren't egomaniacs and hypocrites?

 

[NightFox]

The ACA had its problems that could have been fixed.

Why does it have to be fixed? Why didn't the Democrats just do it right the first time? How many shots at this are they gonna need before they get it right?

but the intent behind the bill was always good.

So were Stalin's but good intentions are the cobblestones that pave the road to hell.