We're just seeing the initial shocks...

[emilynghiem]

No, this is what you get when corrupt progressives run the govt.

Heeeyyy watch with the overly generalized name calling
whoa!

Don't insult "corrupt progressives" like me who equally call out the
"corporate liberals" on buying the health care vote and turning it into this.

Same as buying the black vote, the green vote, the anti-war and women's pink vote,
and turning it into political favor as convenient.

It's never about really curing breast cancer or disease, such as through spiritual healing that is free, but just about legislating after the fact for symbolic agenda and politically correctness.

I wouldn't call these people progressives.

When I do corrupt things taking shortcuts, at least I admit it and try to fix the problem.
Not all "corrupt progressives" are to blame, only the ones into denial and projection.

At least I admit I don't get how the ACA can be justified by any stretch of "prochoice" views. ???
The label of "inclusion and diversity" doesn't apply, where they leave out half the nation's opinion as if it doesn't require representation?
So neither label makes sense. I don't what you call this? It isn't necessarily socialism
because I have socialist and Marxist friends who believe in free choice and don't impose beliefs.
I guess they are Constitutionalists or Universalists first, and believe in freedom of association BEFORE their own beliefs of choice.

I think we need a RELIGIOUS denomination for this belief system of "depending on govt to impose policies instead of reflecting consent"
or "using majority rule to avoid resolving conflicts and deny equal representation" and call them for what they are. If it is understood as a "valid religion"
then maybe people will GET that they need to pay for their own beliefs and programs thereunder
and quit imposing their values through govt if they complain when others do that with their beliefs.

I really think it is a form of 'denial and projection' as in the grief process
or some phase in the religious stages of development. Is it some kind of phobia, based on fear of being controlled by rightwing influences
that you overcompensate using govt and media for leftwing bias? I have a friend who is so adamantly opposed and fearful of rightwing
agenda, he even agrees with their opposition to ACA but won't speak up or fight it because he hates the rightwing so much.

If people are mentally or emotionally limited by their phobias, how can they be deciding public policy for people who don't have these fears and want to govern as independently as possible?
Would you really let people who are at teenage or middle school level vote on policies for the high school and college students?
Wouldn't you organize people by class or affiliation and let them represent their own peers and student body per community?
And not go by majority rule if the elementary school populations outnumber the graduate students.

Whatever this difference is in development, from dependence on govt, to independence and self-government, maybe
the divisions needs to be declared a RELIGIOUS DENOMINATION to make this clear it should remain optional and not mandatory to follow!

If these so-called prochoice advocates of ACA agree the field is wide open for everyone to start imposing their beliefs by majority rule
then we'd really have to separate parties to keep them out of politics the same way we'd do with church groups.

And recognize each party's political beliefs are valid as RELIGIONS, and deserve equal protection but also equal responsibility to pay for your own!

No fair imposing your beliefs or agenda, expecting others to change their beliefs to yours and/or pay for your programs, and then complain about separation of church and state. And certainly no fair abusing majority rule to force or exclude others, and then complain about "bullying" -- how is this any different? using greater force or numbers to silence the consent or dissent of others?

I wonder if the level of cognitive dissonance and denial about these conflicts
correlates with the rate of manic depression, and addiction to medications.

Maybe that's why pharmaceutical companies are forever tied to political campaigns.
If they create the demand for the other to stay in business.

I hope people figure this out. This merry go round is dizzying where I will surely lose my stomach if I don't lose my mind and pass out trying to make sense of how to fix this....

 

[daveman]

Enjoy the ride. This is what you get when industry runs the govt.

I dont recall "industry" passing any bills. That would ahve been Nancy Pelosi's House and Harry Reid's Senate.

I think Moonglow is referring to the billions of dollars that have come into the hands of politicians since the passing of Citizens United. Let's see....Does Marvin Adelson ring any bells? And please, don't make me post for the 100th time about the $500M the Koch brothers have pumped into political coffers....

Can you link for me posts of yours that criticized the massive amount of money unions have contributed to political campaigns?

Kthnxbai.

 

[emilynghiem]

True. And we should be allowed to choose whether or not we want to pay hundreds a month for coverage that will only help if and when there is a devastating illness or injury.

My brain is still stuck on how
prochoice people don't want any restriction or penalty on a choice as risky as abortion

yet for a choice as harmless as wanting to pay for health care directly
and not necessarily pay for insurance which isn't the same as paying for services

they "don't trust people with that choice"
but want it mandated under penalty of law

???

You trust women with the choice of abortion
but don't trust people to choose natural forms of health care without insurance or govt?

I understood when someone explained they
trusted women with the choice of abortion
but didn't trust govt with the choice of the death penalty

how they trust govt with health care
racks my brain

that's fine, I tell myself, to have that faith
but how can you dare impose such faith on other
people "without proof" and then complain about
religious or political people doing that with their faith or beliefs?

that part is really troublesome

I think it has to do with people "forgiving" this group or that factor
but not the other one
so they make biased decisions depending on what they can forgive
or what they fear

so how is THAT any different from faith-based biases

why are political beliefs allowed to be imposed by majority rule
but we would panic if people imposed religious beliefs

why this denial that beliefs are beliefs whether religious secular or political

can people be helped to see this bias is going on
can it be addressed or are people too stuck in their own biases to see it?

???

My boyfriend said it best
he said that prochoice people complain they don't want Ted Cruz or anyone
in govt dictating policy concerning their womb or vagina's
but they are willing to hand over every cell in their body to govt control

WTF?

My friend who believes in single payer believes in moving toward
only having the government handle the payments but all the services would be private.

Where the [HECK] has govt ever allowed payment for services or programs
that weren't regulated beyond what only bureaucrats could figure out
so that the public schools, public housing and prisons all fell to total mindless warehousing.

You really think you will set up a postal service type system that will
just generically stamp and post whatever gets sent through?

And my other question is if so, why can't you set that up WITHOUT FEDERAL GOVT?
Why can't you set up local clinics and schools that are locally operated and supported?
Why not teach people to govern and develop their own communities and schools?
Does all that have to be through govt also?

How did this country ever get built if people depended on the govt?

My boyfriend says that liberal Democrats have lost their minds, that's why they do this.
I thought it could be fixed. All the Greens and Libertarians promote self-dependence.
Surely I thought Democrats would get it. Now I see why the Greens gave up on them too.

Hopefully this is just a phase the population is going through.
And when those masses catch up with everyone else who has
been pushing toward limited federal govt and local governance, maybe we can at least admit we are working on the same "progression" toward sustainable solutions
and self-govt NOT depending on govt to dictate everything because you can't resolve conflicts to work with X or Y group and thus rely on majority rule to bully back and forth.

Whatever phase that is, maybe there's a name for it
in Fowler's stages of religious development or something.

This is utterly grievous and disturbing. There must be some way to frame this
where we can explain where everyone is on a map, and there doesnt have to be conflict?

 

[emilynghiem]

I dont recall "industry" passing any bills. That would ahve been Nancy Pelosi's House and Harry Reid's Senate.

I think Moonglow is referring to the billions of dollars that have come into the hands of politicians since the passing of Citizens United. Let's see....Does Marvin Adelson ring any bells? And please, don't make me post for the 100th time about the $500M the Koch brothers have pumped into political coffers....

Can you link for me posts of yours that criticized the massive amount of money unions have contributed to political campaigns?

Kthnxbai.

How about which unions got exemptions from the ACA?

 

[daveman]

I think Moonglow is referring to the billions of dollars that have come into the hands of politicians since the passing of Citizens United. Let's see....Does Marvin Adelson ring any bells? And please, don't make me post for the 100th time about the $500M the Koch brothers have pumped into political coffers....

Can you link for me posts of yours that criticized the massive amount of money unions have contributed to political campaigns?

Kthnxbai.

How about which unions got exemptions from the ACA?

Has he criticized any of them?

I kinda doubt it.