What did our founders really mean when they said “general welfare”?

[BrokeLoser]

Off topic but....does that mean you’re behind EVERYBODY paying a flat tax?

I support the Fair Tax, with no exemptions. Taxes on consumption are superior to taxes on production.

What you don't get is that it doesn't matter which tax structure we have if tax expenditures are allowed to exist. You have been misled into believing the flat INCOME tax has some magical quality which will prevent corruptible loopholes and carve-outs for special interests.

I’m thinking you’re putting words in my mouth.
I’m simply calling you out on your displeasure with “tax expenditures”...I’ll venture a guess and bet you don’t personally benefit from said expenditures.
What I’ve found is those who bitch about tax expenditures simply use that as the ‘smart guys’ angle on suggesting the treasury is underfunded by America’s most productive whom pays 87% of all collected income tax. An underfunded treasury equals less free shit for lowlifes...you hate that.
Don’t get me wrong, I respect your sneaky angle as it illustrates a level of shame in your desire for free shit.
See, the danielpalos of the world are shameless as all hell, they’ll straight up tell us they deserve free shit because they breathe oxygen on American soil. Again, good job, stay sneaky, stay embarrassed.

I use as many deductions, credits, and exemptions on my taxes as possible. I actually use quite a few. I would be stupid not to.

So your assumption is wrong.

But what you don't realize is that tax expenditures are the biggest "free shit" in the history of the world. They are stolen from the pockets of every taxpayer, including yourself!

Even worse, they cause prices for some things to be higher than they should be. For instance, the mortgage interest deduction causes house prices to be 27 percent higher.

So you think you are getting a good deal when you deduct your mortgage interest when in fact you are paying a higher tax rate and more for your house. You are being robbed.

Now ask yourself, who benefits from higher house prices?

There's more then one beneficiary.

Answer that question, and you will begin to understand how tax expenditures cause wealth to be redistributed UP the food chain.

Still off topic...
Again, you do a fine job of disguising your motives...however, anybody sane sees right past your bullshit. You see, everybody plays by the same rules and files taxes using the same tax code and guidelines so your cries of unfairness can’t be taken seriously by anyone paying attention. You always close out by unveiling of your true motive...I’ll dumb it down for the dumb here.
“Tax expenditures suck because only the productive, deserving people of society are able to capitalize on them.”
Trust me, I get it...you aren’t the first or last to play this lame ass tune...the bottom line is your type hate it win winners win and losers lose.
Your semi intelligent method / angle of begging for free shit is played out here bud. You’ve been exposed...you’re simply a smarter more calculated danielpalos

We have an insane system where entities earning identical incomes are paying radically different taxes. This is a system where the government interferes in every commercial market on a MASSIVE scale.

You can't possibly call yourself a conservative and defend this bullshit.

This is a core conservative principle, dipshit.

I used to say you tards are "so far off the reservation...", but then I realized a while back you have never been ON the reservation.

It's not your fault, though. You were raised on pseudocon propaganda, and have too weak a mind to see how you are being manipulated. You were never allowed to grow intellectually. Your masters depend on you being stupid cows, and they work very hard to keep you that way so that you not only tolerate being robbed, you vigorously defend your robbers.

Yeah, it’s time...you’re gonna have to let go bud. Unfortunately, that Tea Party shit can’t survive in today’s political realm.

 

[BrokeLoser]

If I am a money lender, do I benefit if house prices are higher than they should be?

Yup! The more money I loan, the more interest I collect on that money.

If I am a real estate broker, do I benefit if house prices are higher than they should be?

Yup! My commission is directly tied to the amount the house sells for. Higher home prices = higher commissions.

What if I am a realtor?

Yup! Same deal. Higher home prices = higher commissions.

Whose pocket is all this extra money coming from?

The sucker buying a house and borrowing money to get it, that's who.



http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/Uplo...erest-Deduction-Affect-the-Housing-Market.pdf

One widely cited 1996 study by Dennis Capozza, Richard Green, and Patric Hendershott estimated that eliminating the mortgage interest and property tax deductions would reduce housing prices in the short term by an average of 13 percent nationwide, with regional changes ranging from 8 to 27 percent.

Look how much money these profiteers pour into our incumbent politicians' pockets to keep this rigged game going:

There you have it folks...homeowners are “suckers”...meanwhile home ownership remains a fundamental ‘big boy’ thing to achieve in America and homeowners in the U.S. accumulate personal wealth through real estate.
To close, never accept any form of life coaching from the guy with neck tattoos, wearing a Metallica Master Of Puppets concert shirt and living in moms converted garage.

 

[Anathema]

[

Thomas Paine advocated a national basic income and an old age government pension. So he clearly did not believe these violated the Constitution.

Paine was there from the beginning. He was an authority on the subject of "general welfare". You are just some hack.

You think just pointing at the Constitution means something. It's just a meaningless throwaway gesture. You can't argue an actual point.

Paine argues for those things but didn’t get them. The US Constitution is the law of the land. Just because it has been ignored and abused for 150 years doesn’t mean it isn’t still the only legitimate standard for Federal powers.

 

[Claudette]

[

Thomas Paine advocated a national basic income and an old age government pension. So he clearly did not believe these violated the Constitution.

Paine was there from the beginning. He was an authority on the subject of "general welfare". You are just some hack.

You think just pointing at the Constitution means something. It's just a meaningless throwaway gesture. You can't argue an actual point.

Paine argues for those things but didn’t get them. The US Constitution is the law of the land. Just because it has been ignored and abused for 150 years doesn’t mean it isn’t still the only legitimate standard for Federal powers.

Yup and I'm sure "the General welfare" didn't mean that people would have to support other people.

Charity isn't in the Constitution at all.

 

[longknife]

If you voted for Trump there’s a good chance you’re a lot like me with regard to why....I voted for him on two policies almost exclusively...First and foremost on how he would deal with illegal Mexicans and the border and second on how he would yank lowlifes off the Democrat induced welfare plantation.
Anyhoo, as we approach the point where welfare reform will be visited I ask for your opinions on EXACTLY what you think our founders meant when they used the phrase “GENERAL WELFARE” in the constitution?

Attention all Smartest Guys In The Room, and legal scholars:
Please spare us the case citations such as the U.S. vs Butler case and the like. I’m interested in YOUR opinions.

One has to consider where the phrase appears

.We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[note 1] promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Meaning and application
The Preamble serves solely as an introduction, and does not assign powers to the federal government,[3] nor does it provide specific limitations on government action. Due to the Preamble's limited nature, no court has ever used it as a decisive factor in case adjudication,[4] except as regards frivolous litigation.[5]

The second occurance is this:

Article I, Section 8, Clause 1
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

The explanation for this can be found @ Taxing and Spending Clause - Wikipedia

The first has no legal authority and the second has been open to debate for more than 200 years.

 

[boedicca]

If you voted for Trump there’s a good chance you’re a lot like me with regard to why....I voted for him on two policies almost exclusively...First and foremost on how he would deal with illegal Mexicans and the border and second on how he would yank lowlifes off the Democrat induced welfare plantation.
Anyhoo, as we approach the point where welfare reform will be visited I ask for your opinions on EXACTLY what you think our founders meant when they used the phrase “GENERAL WELFARE” in the constitution?

Attention all Smartest Guys In The Room, and legal scholars:
Please spare us the case citations such as the U.S. vs Butler case and the like. I’m interested in YOUR opinions.

One has to consider where the phrase appears

.We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[note 1] promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Meaning and application
The Preamble serves solely as an introduction, and does not assign powers to the federal government,[3] nor does it provide specific limitations on government action. Due to the Preamble's limited nature, no court has ever used it as a decisive factor in case adjudication,[4] except as regards frivolous litigation.[5]

The second occurance is this:

Article I, Section 8, Clause 1
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

The explanation for this can be found @ Taxing and Spending Clause - Wikipedia

The first has no legal authority and the second has been open to debate for more than 200 years.

General Welfare means things by which everyone benefits without biasing the benefits, (i.e. roads, treaty enforcement) and other things are are not specifically targeted for the benefit of one group and the expense of another (i.e. welfare payments, corporate subsidies).

 

[danielpalos]

So far we’ve learned that Daniel thinks “general welfare” should mean we can all own Ferrari’s and eat like kings by staying at home and smoking weed while others bust their ass for us.

I say it would fall within constitutional guidelines if we offered welfare seeking lowlifes a taxpayer bought tent, fishing pole and bus ride to a resource rich forest. Prove me wrong please.

so far all we have learned from the right wing is that Only the general badfare qualifies as the general welfare.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

So far we’ve learned that Daniel thinks “general welfare” should mean we can all own Ferrari’s and eat like kings by staying at home and smoking weed while others bust their ass for us.

I say it would fall within constitutional guidelines if we offered welfare seeking lowlifes a taxpayer bought tent, fishing pole and bus ride to a resource rich forest. Prove me wrong please.

so far all we have learned from the right wing is that Only the general badfare qualifies as the general welfare.

and from you, the general lazyfare and general stealfare qualifies as the general welfare, as well as anything the all-powerful and unchallenged legislature can imagine.

.

 

[caddo kid]

If you voted for Trump there’s a good chance you’re a lot like me with regard to why....I voted for him on two policies almost exclusively...First and foremost on how he would deal with illegal Mexicans and the border and second on how he would yank lowlifes off the Democrat induced welfare plantation.
Anyhoo, as we approach the point where welfare reform will be visited I ask for your opinions on EXACTLY what you think our founders meant when they used the phrase “GENERAL WELFARE” in the constitution?

Attention all Smartest Guys In The Room, and legal scholars:
Please spare us the case citations such as the U.S. vs Butler case and the like. I’m interested in YOUR opinions.

the general welfare is mentioned twice in The Constitution; once in the Preamble & once in the Tax & Spending clause.

are you referring to one, or to both?


IMO, whatever the general welfare is, I'm sure Republicans hate it

 

[BrokeLoser]

If you voted for Trump there’s a good chance you’re a lot like me with regard to why....I voted for him on two policies almost exclusively...First and foremost on how he would deal with illegal Mexicans and the border and second on how he would yank lowlifes off the Democrat induced welfare plantation.
Anyhoo, as we approach the point where welfare reform will be visited I ask for your opinions on EXACTLY what you think our founders meant when they used the phrase “GENERAL WELFARE” in the constitution?

Attention all Smartest Guys In The Room, and legal scholars:
Please spare us the case citations such as the U.S. vs Butler case and the like. I’m interested in YOUR opinions.

the general welfare is mentioned twice in The Constitution; once in the Preamble & once in the Tax & Spending clause.

are you referring to one, or to both?


IMO, whatever the general welfare is, I'm sure Republicans hate it

Either, it doesn’t really matter.
Tell us where you read that “general welfare” means Danny gets his Cadillac, flat screen and ounce of weed?

I say it “general welfare” means good people help keep bad people breathing. THE END

 

[jc456]

QUOTE="Tipsycatlover, post: 21054250, member: 59451"]General welfare meant the welfare of the states not individual citizens and certainly not foreigners.[/QUOTE]

^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[jc456]

If you voted for Trump there’s a good chance you’re a lot like me with regard to why....I voted for him on two policies almost exclusively...First and foremost on how he would deal with illegal Mexicans and the border and second on how he would yank lowlifes off the Democrat induced welfare plantation.
Anyhoo, as we approach the point where welfare reform will be visited I ask for your opinions on EXACTLY what you think our founders meant when they used the phrase “GENERAL WELFARE” in the constitution?

Attention all Smartest Guys In The Room, and legal scholars:
Please spare us the case citations such as the U.S. vs Butler case and the like. I’m interested in YOUR opinions.

The general welfare clause must be comprehensive to address any contingency; and, our Founding Fathers indicated we should be proactive.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

whoa bubba, is that what was meant by the FF? or what you decide it 'must' mean? too fking funny.

 

[caddo kid]

If you voted for Trump there’s a good chance you’re a lot like me with regard to why....I voted for him on two policies almost exclusively...First and foremost on how he would deal with illegal Mexicans and the border and second on how he would yank lowlifes off the Democrat induced welfare plantation.
Anyhoo, as we approach the point where welfare reform will be visited I ask for your opinions on EXACTLY what you think our founders meant when they used the phrase “GENERAL WELFARE” in the constitution?

Attention all Smartest Guys In The Room, and legal scholars:
Please spare us the case citations such as the U.S. vs Butler case and the like. I’m interested in YOUR opinions.

the general welfare is mentioned twice in The Constitution; once in the Preamble & once in the Tax & Spending clause.

are you referring to one, or to both?


IMO, whatever the general welfare is, I'm sure Republicans hate it

Either, it doesn’t really matter.
Tell us where you read that “general welfare” means Danny gets his Cadillac, flat screen and ounce of weed?

I say it “general welfare” means good people help keep bad people breathing. THE END

I don't believe I mentioned a thing about, "Danny" or his "Cadillac" or his "weed."

Maybe you have had a bit too much weed yourself?

 

[jc456]

If you voted for Trump there’s a good chance you’re a lot like me with regard to why....I voted for him on two policies almost exclusively...First and foremost on how he would deal with illegal Mexicans and the border and second on how he would yank lowlifes off the Democrat induced welfare plantation.
Anyhoo, as we approach the point where welfare reform will be visited I ask for your opinions on EXACTLY what you think our founders meant when they used the phrase “GENERAL WELFARE” in the constitution?

Attention all Smartest Guys In The Room, and legal scholars:
Please spare us the case citations such as the U.S. vs Butler case and the like. I’m interested in YOUR opinions.

the general welfare is mentioned twice in The Constitution; once in the Preamble & once in the Tax & Spending clause.

are you referring to one, or to both?


IMO, whatever the general welfare is, I'm sure Republicans hate it

Either, it doesn’t really matter.
Tell us where you read that “general welfare” means Danny gets his Cadillac, flat screen and ounce of weed?

I say it “general welfare” means good people help keep bad people breathing. THE END

I don't believe I mentioned a thing about, "Danny" or his "Cadillac" or his "weed."

Maybe you have had a bit too much weed yourself?

sure you did. You are referring to individuals. And that's fking Danny and Suzie and any other Moon Beam citizen.

 

[caddo kid]

If you voted for Trump there’s a good chance you’re a lot like me with regard to why....I voted for him on two policies almost exclusively...First and foremost on how he would deal with illegal Mexicans and the border and second on how he would yank lowlifes off the Democrat induced welfare plantation.
Anyhoo, as we approach the point where welfare reform will be visited I ask for your opinions on EXACTLY what you think our founders meant when they used the phrase “GENERAL WELFARE” in the constitution?

Attention all Smartest Guys In The Room, and legal scholars:
Please spare us the case citations such as the U.S. vs Butler case and the like. I’m interested in YOUR opinions.

the general welfare is mentioned twice in The Constitution; once in the Preamble & once in the Tax & Spending clause.

are you referring to one, or to both?


IMO, whatever the general welfare is, I'm sure Republicans hate it

Either, it doesn’t really matter.
Tell us where you read that “general welfare” means Danny gets his Cadillac, flat screen and ounce of weed?

I say it “general welfare” means good people help keep bad people breathing. THE END

I don't believe I mentioned a thing about, "Danny" or his "Cadillac" or his "weed."

Maybe you have had a bit too much weed yourself?

sure you did. You are referring to individuals. And that's fking Danny and Suzie and any other Moon Beam citizen.

The chain of conversation is all there, for all to see. WHERE did I mention what you are claiming?

 

[BrokeLoser]

If you voted for Trump there’s a good chance you’re a lot like me with regard to why....I voted for him on two policies almost exclusively...First and foremost on how he would deal with illegal Mexicans and the border and second on how he would yank lowlifes off the Democrat induced welfare plantation.
Anyhoo, as we approach the point where welfare reform will be visited I ask for your opinions on EXACTLY what you think our founders meant when they used the phrase “GENERAL WELFARE” in the constitution?

Attention all Smartest Guys In The Room, and legal scholars:
Please spare us the case citations such as the U.S. vs Butler case and the like. I’m interested in YOUR opinions.

the general welfare is mentioned twice in The Constitution; once in the Preamble & once in the Tax & Spending clause.

are you referring to one, or to both?


IMO, whatever the general welfare is, I'm sure Republicans hate it

Either, it doesn’t really matter.
Tell us where you read that “general welfare” means Danny gets his Cadillac, flat screen and ounce of weed?

I say it “general welfare” means good people help keep bad people breathing. THE END

I don't believe I mentioned a thing about, "Danny" or his "Cadillac" or his "weed."

Maybe you have had a bit too much weed yourself?

sure you did. You are referring to individuals. And that's fking Danny and Suzie and any other Moon Beam citizen.

The chain of conversation is all there, for all to see. WHERE did I mention what you are claiming?

Okay, sorry for jumping the gun....how do you interpret “general welfare” as our founders intended it?

 

[caddo kid]

the general welfare is mentioned twice in The Constitution; once in the Preamble & once in the Tax & Spending clause.

are you referring to one, or to both?


IMO, whatever the general welfare is, I'm sure Republicans hate it

Either, it doesn’t really matter.
Tell us where you read that “general welfare” means Danny gets his Cadillac, flat screen and ounce of weed?

I say it “general welfare” means good people help keep bad people breathing. THE END

I don't believe I mentioned a thing about, "Danny" or his "Cadillac" or his "weed."

Maybe you have had a bit too much weed yourself?

sure you did. You are referring to individuals. And that's fking Danny and Suzie and any other Moon Beam citizen.

The chain of conversation is all there, for all to see. WHERE did I mention what you are claiming?

Okay, sorry for jumping the gun....how do you interpret “general welfare” as our founders intended it?

as mentioned within The Preamble it means nothing; it is just some fancy wording that means jack.

as mentioned in the Tax & Spending Clause, there has been considerable debate. Considering that Congress creates budgets from the TAX receipts & is in charge of spending, in theory it can mean anything Congress agrees to that Congress agrees that it means.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Liberty, freedom, and welfare for all.

 

[BrokeLoser]

Either, it doesn’t really matter.
Tell us where you read that “general welfare” means Danny gets his Cadillac, flat screen and ounce of weed?

I say it “general welfare” means good people help keep bad people breathing. THE END

I don't believe I mentioned a thing about, "Danny" or his "Cadillac" or his "weed."

Maybe you have had a bit too much weed yourself?

sure you did. You are referring to individuals. And that's fking Danny and Suzie and any other Moon Beam citizen.

The chain of conversation is all there, for all to see. WHERE did I mention what you are claiming?

Okay, sorry for jumping the gun....how do you interpret “general welfare” as our founders intended it?

as mentioned within The Preamble it means nothing; it is just some fancy wording that means jack.

as mentioned in the Tax & Spending Clause, there has been considerable debate. Considering that Congress creates budgets from the TAX receipts & is in charge of spending, in theory it can mean anything Congress agrees to that Congress agrees that it means.

That’s fancy and all but what do YOU think it means?
Again, to reference Danny, he thinks he gets paid by taxpayers to play video games, smoke weed and drive a Ferrari?
Go ahead....

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

as mentioned in the Tax & Spending Clause, there has been considerable debate. Considering that Congress creates budgets from the TAX receipts & is in charge of spending, in theory it can mean anything Congress agrees to that Congress agrees that it means.

So, Congress is all-powerful and States have maintained no sovereignty?

Fuck this union. I want Texas Independence.

.