What did our founders really mean when they said “general welfare”?

[danielpalos]

If you voted for Trump there’s a good chance you’re a lot like me with regard to why....I voted for him on two policies almost exclusively...First and foremost on how he would deal with illegal Mexicans and the border and second on how he would yank lowlifes off the Democrat induced welfare plantation.
Anyhoo, as we approach the point where welfare reform will be visited I ask for your opinions on EXACTLY what you think our founders meant when they used the phrase “GENERAL WELFARE” in the constitution?

Attention all Smartest Guys In The Room, and legal scholars:
Please spare us the case citations such as the U.S. vs Butler case and the like. I’m interested in YOUR opinions.

Our welfare clause is general because it must be comprehensive enough to provide a general solution for any contingency. FDR proved this is the Case in our federal republic; thank Goodness FDR was a left winger.

Exactly....leading up to Pearl Harbor, the GOP in Congress was very admiring of Hitler and Mussolini.

Nazi trains ran on time?

 

[bodecea]

WTF are "Art History" majors supposed to do to earn a living? <g>

well, with schools dropping any art or music program to teach to some test, not much I will admit.

 

[g5000]

WTF are "Art History" majors supposed to do to earn a living? <g>

Whatever the market will bear.

 

[BrokeLoser]

If you look at the 2019 Budget (below), especially the Welfare and Medicaid line items, you see that the $900b deficit can be offset by reducing welfare and medicaid as well as other reductions, such as in Defense. While the economy is at its highest level, and at full employment, with jobs all over, we should really be sure that the recipients of welfare and medicaid are truly deserving, and are US citizens. IMHO the dems give out freebies too easily thereby ensuring that the dependency on their democrat plantations is assured. I'm hoping that Trump makes sure that there are more people pulling the wagon than riding in it.

2019 Federal Budget $4.04T

Mandatory spending $2.74T
Social Security $1,050b
Medicare $625b
Medicaid $412b
Welfare $462b
Interest on the Debt $363b

Discretionary $1.3T
Defense $893.0
HHS $70.0
Education $59.9
VA $83.1
Homeland $52.7
Energy Dept $29.2
NNSA $15.1
HUD $29.2
State Dept $40.3
NASA $19.0
All Other Agencies $133.1

We could eliminate the deficit entirely, and lower tax rates for EVERYONE, by simply banning the $1.4 trillion spent each year on tax expenditures.

We have an insane system whereby entities earning identical incomes are paying radically different taxes.

We have a tax code which is the largest government behavior control program in the history of the world. We have a tax code which is used by the government to interfere in every single market on a MASSIVE scale.

How anyone claiming to be a "conservative" can defend this system is beyond me.

Off topic but....does that mean you’re behind EVERYBODY paying a flat tax?

I support the Fair Tax, with no exemptions. Taxes on consumption are superior to taxes on production.

What you don't get is that it doesn't matter which tax structure we have if tax expenditures are allowed to exist. You have been misled into believing the flat INCOME tax has some magical quality which will prevent corruptible loopholes and carve-outs for special interests.

I’m thinking you’re putting words in my mouth.
I’m simply calling you out on your displeasure with “tax expenditures”...I’ll venture a guess and bet you don’t personally benefit from said expenditures.
What I’ve found is those who bitch about tax expenditures simply use that as the ‘smart guys’ angle on suggesting the treasury is underfunded by America’s most productive whom pays 87% of all collected income tax. An underfunded treasury equals less free shit for lowlifes...you hate that.
Don’t get me wrong, I respect your sneaky angle as it illustrates a level of shame in your desire for free shit.
See, the danielpalos of the world are shameless as all hell, they’ll straight up tell us they deserve free shit because they breathe oxygen on American soil. Again, good job, stay sneaky, stay embarrassed.

 

[danielpalos]

I figured that might be a shock, sorry for the bad news. On the upside, the economy is doing well enough even for you to get a job. McDonalds, Walmart, Burger King, any of those catch your interest?

There is nothing shameful about working at Walmart or BK or McDonalds.

But in actuality, manufacturing and mining jobs are also picking up.

The Trump Economy is superb, and that's why our Liberal Friends are so anxious to change the topic to the caravan or to the bombs or whatever. If the libs could destroy the economy, Soros wouldn't need to orchestrate a bombing hoax

cognitive dissonance is what the right wing is best at.

tax cut economics are simply unsustainable.

Certainly not sustainable if you don't have a job.

it is natural for capitalism to have a rate of unemployment.

Unemployment is certain and encouraged under communism or any other system.

In nature, those who don't work to get food and shelter will die. There is no unemployment in nature.

we have a First World economy not a third world economy.

why do we have alleged wars on crime, drugs, and terror the right wing doesn't firmly believe in the fiscal responsibility and moral responsibility to pay wartime tax rates on?

 

[g5000]

If you look at the 2019 Budget (below), especially the Welfare and Medicaid line items, you see that the $900b deficit can be offset by reducing welfare and medicaid as well as other reductions, such as in Defense. While the economy is at its highest level, and at full employment, with jobs all over, we should really be sure that the recipients of welfare and medicaid are truly deserving, and are US citizens. IMHO the dems give out freebies too easily thereby ensuring that the dependency on their democrat plantations is assured. I'm hoping that Trump makes sure that there are more people pulling the wagon than riding in it.

2019 Federal Budget $4.04T

Mandatory spending $2.74T
Social Security $1,050b
Medicare $625b
Medicaid $412b
Welfare $462b
Interest on the Debt $363b

Discretionary $1.3T
Defense $893.0
HHS $70.0
Education $59.9
VA $83.1
Homeland $52.7
Energy Dept $29.2
NNSA $15.1
HUD $29.2
State Dept $40.3
NASA $19.0
All Other Agencies $133.1

We could eliminate the deficit entirely, and lower tax rates for EVERYONE, by simply banning the $1.4 trillion spent each year on tax expenditures.

We have an insane system whereby entities earning identical incomes are paying radically different taxes.

We have a tax code which is the largest government behavior control program in the history of the world. We have a tax code which is used by the government to interfere in every single market on a MASSIVE scale.

How anyone claiming to be a "conservative" can defend this system is beyond me.

Off topic but....does that mean you’re behind EVERYBODY paying a flat tax?

I support the Fair Tax, with no exemptions. Taxes on consumption are superior to taxes on production.

What you don't get is that it doesn't matter which tax structure we have if tax expenditures are allowed to exist. You have been misled into believing the flat INCOME tax has some magical quality which will prevent corruptible loopholes and carve-outs for special interests.

I’m thinking you’re putting words in my mouth.
I’m simply calling you out on your displeasure with “tax expenditures”...I’ll venture a guess and bet you don’t personally benefit from said expenditures.
What I’ve found is those who bitch about tax expenditures simply use that as the ‘smart guys’ angle on suggesting the treasury is underfunded by America’s most productive whom pays 87% of all collected income tax. An underfunded treasury equals less free shit for lowlifes...you hate that.
Don’t get me wrong, I respect your sneaky angle as it illustrates a level of shame in your desire for free shit.
See, the danielpalos of the world are shameless as all hell, they’ll straight up tell us they deserve free shit because they breathe oxygen on American soil. Again, good job, stay sneaky, stay embarrassed.

I use as many deductions, credits, and exemptions on my taxes as possible. I actually use quite a few. I would be stupid not to.

So your assumption is wrong.

But what you don't realize is that tax expenditures are the biggest "free shit" in the history of the world. They are stolen from the pockets of every taxpayer, including yourself!

Even worse, they cause prices for some things to be higher than they should be. For instance, the mortgage interest deduction causes house prices to be 27 percent higher.

So you think you are getting a good deal when you deduct your mortgage interest when in fact you are paying a higher tax rate and more for your house. You are being robbed.

Now ask yourself, who benefits from higher house prices?

There's more then one beneficiary.

Answer that question, and you will begin to understand how tax expenditures cause wealth to be redistributed UP the food chain.

 

[skews13]

If the general welfare meant what the left claims it means then there would have been no need to follow it with specific things Congress could do since the statement general welfare would have covered everything.

Article 2 Section 8 gives Congress the power to tax and spend specifically for the general welfare and common defense.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

If you invent a better mousetrap, and the world beats a path to your door, you deserve to be rich. You have acquired wealth naturally. And you should have as little of that wealth confiscated by the government as possible. Thomas Jefferson was in full agreement on this point.

If you pay a member of Congress to put a tax credit in the income tax code for people who buy your mousetraps, then you are tilting the playing field and acquiring wealth unnaturally. You are also causing everyone else to pay higher tax rates and are causing massive deficits.

We currently have $1.4 trillion of such unnatural tilting of the playing field each year. Wealth is accumulating into a few hands, and Jefferson found this to be totally abhorrent.

I am with you on some of the tax expenditures issues. I am not in favor of re-defining income to include busness expenses. I gross a shit ton of money, but I don't personally get to keep 70% of it. My tax burden should reflect my actual personal earnings.

 

[Hum Dinger]

gen·er·al
/ˈjen(ə)rəl/
adjective

1. 1.
   affecting or concerning all or most people, places, or things; widespread.
   "books of general interest"
   synonyms: widespread, common, extensive, universal, wide, popular, public, mainstream; More
   • 
     
     
2. considering or including the main features or elements of something, and disregarding exceptions; overall.
   "they fired in the general direction of the enemy"
   synonyms: broad, imprecise, inexact, rough, loose, approximate, unspecific, vague, woolly, indefinite;
   informalballpark
   "a general description"

wel·fare
/ˈwelˌfer/
noun

1. the health, happiness, and fortunes of a person or group.
   "they don't give a damn about the welfare of their families"
   synonyms: well-being, health, comfort, security, safety, protection, prosperity, success, fortune

Any other dumb questions?

 

[danielpalos]

we should end our alleged crime, drug, and terror wars to end our income tax.

 

[g5000]

If I am a money lender, do I benefit if house prices are higher than they should be?

Yup! The more money I loan, the more interest I collect on that money.

If I am a real estate broker, do I benefit if house prices are higher than they should be?

Yup! My commission is directly tied to the amount the house sells for. Higher home prices = higher commissions.

What if I am a realtor?

Yup! Same deal. Higher home prices = higher commissions.

Whose pocket is all this extra money coming from?

The sucker buying a house and borrowing money to get it, that's who.



http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/Uplo...erest-Deduction-Affect-the-Housing-Market.pdf

One widely cited 1996 study by Dennis Capozza, Richard Green, and Patric Hendershott estimated that eliminating the mortgage interest and property tax deductions would reduce housing prices in the short term by an average of 13 percent nationwide, with regional changes ranging from 8 to 27 percent.

Look how much money these profiteers pour into our incumbent politicians' pockets to keep this rigged game going:

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

gen·er·al
/ˈjen(ə)rəl/
adjective

1. 1.
   affecting or concerning all or most people, places, or things; widespread.
   "books of general interest"
   synonyms: widespread, common, extensive, universal, wide, popular, public, mainstream; More
   • 
     
2. considering or including the main features or elements of something, and disregarding exceptions; overall.
   "they fired in the general direction of the enemy"
   synonyms: broad, imprecise, inexact, rough, loose, approximate, unspecific, vague, woolly, indefinite;
   informalballpark
   "a general description"

wel·fare
/ˈwelˌfer/
noun

1. the health, happiness, and fortunes of a person or group.
   "they don't give a damn about the welfare of their families"
   synonyms: well-being, health, comfort, security, safety, protection, prosperity, success, fortune

Any other dumb questions?

Not if you're going to continue giving retarded answers.

 

[Mr Natural]

General meaning whatever is necessary to keep the country from turning into a shithole.

 

[EasyPeasy]

If I am a money lender, do I benefit if house prices are higher than they should be?

Yup! The more money I loan, the more interest I collect on that money.

If I am a real estate broker, do I benefit if house prices are higher than they should be?

Yup! My commission is directly tied to the amount the house sells for. Higher home prices = higher commissions.

What if I am a realtor?

Yup! Same deal. Higher home prices = higher commissions.

Whose pocket is all this extra money coming from?

The sucker buying a house and borrowing money to get it, that's who.



http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/Uplo...erest-Deduction-Affect-the-Housing-Market.pdf

One widely cited 1996 study by Dennis Capozza, Richard Green, and Patric Hendershott estimated that eliminating the mortgage interest and property tax deductions would reduce housing prices in the short term by an average of 13 percent nationwide, with regional changes ranging from 8 to 27 percent.

Look how much money these profiteers pour into our incumbent politicians' pockets to keep this rigged game going:

What on Earth is your point?

 

[whitehall]

It should be noted that the Founders said "provide for the common defense and promote the general welfare", they didn't say "provide for the general welfare and promote the common defense" which is the way the crazy left has twisted reality.

 

[BrokeLoser]

If you look at the 2019 Budget (below), especially the Welfare and Medicaid line items, you see that the $900b deficit can be offset by reducing welfare and medicaid as well as other reductions, such as in Defense. While the economy is at its highest level, and at full employment, with jobs all over, we should really be sure that the recipients of welfare and medicaid are truly deserving, and are US citizens. IMHO the dems give out freebies too easily thereby ensuring that the dependency on their democrat plantations is assured. I'm hoping that Trump makes sure that there are more people pulling the wagon than riding in it.

2019 Federal Budget $4.04T

Mandatory spending $2.74T
Social Security $1,050b
Medicare $625b
Medicaid $412b
Welfare $462b
Interest on the Debt $363b

Discretionary $1.3T
Defense $893.0
HHS $70.0
Education $59.9
VA $83.1
Homeland $52.7
Energy Dept $29.2
NNSA $15.1
HUD $29.2
State Dept $40.3
NASA $19.0
All Other Agencies $133.1

We could eliminate the deficit entirely, and lower tax rates for EVERYONE, by simply banning the $1.4 trillion spent each year on tax expenditures.

We have an insane system whereby entities earning identical incomes are paying radically different taxes.

We have a tax code which is the largest government behavior control program in the history of the world. We have a tax code which is used by the government to interfere in every single market on a MASSIVE scale.

How anyone claiming to be a "conservative" can defend this system is beyond me.

Off topic but....does that mean you’re behind EVERYBODY paying a flat tax?

I support the Fair Tax, with no exemptions. Taxes on consumption are superior to taxes on production.

What you don't get is that it doesn't matter which tax structure we have if tax expenditures are allowed to exist. You have been misled into believing the flat INCOME tax has some magical quality which will prevent corruptible loopholes and carve-outs for special interests.

I’m thinking you’re putting words in my mouth.
I’m simply calling you out on your displeasure with “tax expenditures”...I’ll venture a guess and bet you don’t personally benefit from said expenditures.
What I’ve found is those who bitch about tax expenditures simply use that as the ‘smart guys’ angle on suggesting the treasury is underfunded by America’s most productive whom pays 87% of all collected income tax. An underfunded treasury equals less free shit for lowlifes...you hate that.
Don’t get me wrong, I respect your sneaky angle as it illustrates a level of shame in your desire for free shit.
See, the danielpalos of the world are shameless as all hell, they’ll straight up tell us they deserve free shit because they breathe oxygen on American soil. Again, good job, stay sneaky, stay embarrassed.

I use as many deductions, credits, and exemptions on my taxes as possible. I actually use quite a few. I would be stupid not to.

So your assumption is wrong.

But what you don't realize is that tax expenditures are the biggest "free shit" in the history of the world. They are stolen from the pockets of every taxpayer, including yourself!

Even worse, they cause prices for some things to be higher than they should be. For instance, the mortgage interest deduction causes house prices to be 27 percent higher.

So you think you are getting a good deal when you deduct your mortgage interest when in fact you are paying a higher tax rate and more for your house. You are being robbed.

Now ask yourself, who benefits from higher house prices?

There's more then one beneficiary.

Answer that question, and you will begin to understand how tax expenditures cause wealth to be redistributed UP the food chain.

Still off topic...
Again, you do a fine job of disguising your motives...however, anybody sane sees right past your bullshit. You see, everybody plays by the same rules and files taxes using the same tax code and guidelines so your cries of unfairness can’t be taken seriously by anyone paying attention. You always close out by unveiling your true motive...I’ll dumb it down for the dumb here.
“Tax expenditures suck because only the productive, deserving people of society are able to capitalize on them.”
Trust me, I get it...you aren’t the first or last to play this lame ass tune...the bottom line is your type hate it win winners win and losers lose.
Your semi intelligent method / angle of begging for free shit is played out here bud. You’ve been exposed...you’re simply a smarter more calculated danielpalos

 

[g5000]

We could eliminate the deficit entirely, and lower tax rates for EVERYONE, by simply banning the $1.4 trillion spent each year on tax expenditures.

We have an insane system whereby entities earning identical incomes are paying radically different taxes.

We have a tax code which is the largest government behavior control program in the history of the world. We have a tax code which is used by the government to interfere in every single market on a MASSIVE scale.

How anyone claiming to be a "conservative" can defend this system is beyond me.

Off topic but....does that mean you’re behind EVERYBODY paying a flat tax?

I support the Fair Tax, with no exemptions. Taxes on consumption are superior to taxes on production.

What you don't get is that it doesn't matter which tax structure we have if tax expenditures are allowed to exist. You have been misled into believing the flat INCOME tax has some magical quality which will prevent corruptible loopholes and carve-outs for special interests.

I’m thinking you’re putting words in my mouth.
I’m simply calling you out on your displeasure with “tax expenditures”...I’ll venture a guess and bet you don’t personally benefit from said expenditures.
What I’ve found is those who bitch about tax expenditures simply use that as the ‘smart guys’ angle on suggesting the treasury is underfunded by America’s most productive whom pays 87% of all collected income tax. An underfunded treasury equals less free shit for lowlifes...you hate that.
Don’t get me wrong, I respect your sneaky angle as it illustrates a level of shame in your desire for free shit.
See, the danielpalos of the world are shameless as all hell, they’ll straight up tell us they deserve free shit because they breathe oxygen on American soil. Again, good job, stay sneaky, stay embarrassed.

I use as many deductions, credits, and exemptions on my taxes as possible. I actually use quite a few. I would be stupid not to.

So your assumption is wrong.

But what you don't realize is that tax expenditures are the biggest "free shit" in the history of the world. They are stolen from the pockets of every taxpayer, including yourself!

Even worse, they cause prices for some things to be higher than they should be. For instance, the mortgage interest deduction causes house prices to be 27 percent higher.

So you think you are getting a good deal when you deduct your mortgage interest when in fact you are paying a higher tax rate and more for your house. You are being robbed.

Now ask yourself, who benefits from higher house prices?

There's more then one beneficiary.

Answer that question, and you will begin to understand how tax expenditures cause wealth to be redistributed UP the food chain.

Still off topic...
Again, you do a fine job of disguising your motives...however, anybody sane sees right past your bullshit. You see, everybody plays by the same rules and files taxes using the same tax code and guidelines so your cries of unfairness can’t be taken seriously by anyone paying attention. You always close out by unveiling of your true motive...I’ll dumb it down for the dumb here.
“Tax expenditures suck because only the productive, deserving people of society are able to capitalize on them.”
Trust me, I get it...you aren’t the first or last to play this lame ass tune...the bottom line is your type hate it win winners win and losers lose.
Your semi intelligent method / angle of begging for free shit is played out here bud. You’ve been exposed...you’re simply a smarter more calculated danielpalos

We have an insane system where entities earning identical incomes are paying radically different taxes. This is a system where the government interferes in every commercial market on a MASSIVE scale.

You can't possibly call yourself a conservative and defend this bullshit.

This is a core conservative principle, dipshit.

I used to say you tards are "so far off the reservation...", but then I realized a while back you have never been ON the reservation.

It's not your fault, though. You were raised on pseudocon propaganda, and have too weak a mind to see how you are being manipulated. You were never allowed to grow intellectually. Your masters depend on you being stupid cows, and they work very hard to keep you that way so that you not only tolerate being robbed, you vigorously defend your robbers.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Endless freebies for all.

 

[BrokeLoser]

Off topic but....does that mean you’re behind EVERYBODY paying a flat tax?

I support the Fair Tax, with no exemptions. Taxes on consumption are superior to taxes on production.

What you don't get is that it doesn't matter which tax structure we have if tax expenditures are allowed to exist. You have been misled into believing the flat INCOME tax has some magical quality which will prevent corruptible loopholes and carve-outs for special interests.

I’m thinking you’re putting words in my mouth.
I’m simply calling you out on your displeasure with “tax expenditures”...I’ll venture a guess and bet you don’t personally benefit from said expenditures.
What I’ve found is those who bitch about tax expenditures simply use that as the ‘smart guys’ angle on suggesting the treasury is underfunded by America’s most productive whom pays 87% of all collected income tax. An underfunded treasury equals less free shit for lowlifes...you hate that.
Don’t get me wrong, I respect your sneaky angle as it illustrates a level of shame in your desire for free shit.
See, the danielpalos of the world are shameless as all hell, they’ll straight up tell us they deserve free shit because they breathe oxygen on American soil. Again, good job, stay sneaky, stay embarrassed.

I use as many deductions, credits, and exemptions on my taxes as possible. I actually use quite a few. I would be stupid not to.

So your assumption is wrong.

But what you don't realize is that tax expenditures are the biggest "free shit" in the history of the world. They are stolen from the pockets of every taxpayer, including yourself!

Even worse, they cause prices for some things to be higher than they should be. For instance, the mortgage interest deduction causes house prices to be 27 percent higher.

So you think you are getting a good deal when you deduct your mortgage interest when in fact you are paying a higher tax rate and more for your house. You are being robbed.

Now ask yourself, who benefits from higher house prices?

There's more then one beneficiary.

Answer that question, and you will begin to understand how tax expenditures cause wealth to be redistributed UP the food chain.

Still off topic...
Again, you do a fine job of disguising your motives...however, anybody sane sees right past your bullshit. You see, everybody plays by the same rules and files taxes using the same tax code and guidelines so your cries of unfairness can’t be taken seriously by anyone paying attention. You always close out by unveiling of your true motive...I’ll dumb it down for the dumb here.
“Tax expenditures suck because only the productive, deserving people of society are able to capitalize on them.”
Trust me, I get it...you aren’t the first or last to play this lame ass tune...the bottom line is your type hate it win winners win and losers lose.
Your semi intelligent method / angle of begging for free shit is played out here bud. You’ve been exposed...you’re simply a smarter more calculated danielpalos

We have an insane system where entities earning identical incomes are paying radically different taxes. This is a system where the government interferes in every commercial market on a MASSIVE scale.

You can't possibly call yourself a conservative and defend this bullshit.

This is a core conservative principle, dipshit.

I used to say you tards are "so far off the reservation...", but then I realized a while back you have never been ON the reservation.

It's not your fault, though. You were raised on pseudocon propaganda, and have too weak a mind to see how you are being manipulated. You were never allowed to grow intellectually. Your masters depend on you being stupid cows, and they work very hard to keep you that way so that you not only tolerate being robbed, you vigorously defend your robbers.

Here’s the strange thing about all this...everyone I know that has made good decisions, got an education, worked hard, stayed ambitious never bitches about “the system”....while lowlifes that can’t get out of their own way do nothing but tell us how “the system” holds them back. Weird huh?

 

[BrokeLoser]

So far we’ve learned that Daniel thinks “general welfare” should mean we can all own Ferrari’s and eat like kings by staying at home and smoking weed while others bust their ass for us.

I say it would fall within constitutional guidelines if we offered welfare seeking lowlifes a taxpayer bought tent, fishing pole and bus ride to a resource rich forest. Prove me wrong please.