What do you think of Trump admin. banning E-cigs?

[BlindBoo]

That's pretty funny, since the "vaping deaths" have been linked to THC.

I heard it could be linked to the substance the THC was dissolved into. Vitamin E oil. Not the THC. Not that there isn't consequences for vaping straight hash oil, it's just not been studied much because of the Nanny state.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I used to be a very heavy smoker. I tried my first ecig and never had another tobacco cigarette. Over the years I cut down the nicotine percentage to zero. I've been at zero nic since 2011.

And yet because a few people got fucked up by some illegal vapes they want to ban the shit out of something that is actually helping people.

Just out of curiosity, how exactly are vaping devices helping people?

It helps them get their nicotine fix without having to smoke or chew.

They're expensive nicotine delivery devices designed to keep people's addiction going, they also are known to contain other potentially harmful chemicals which can cause conditions like popcorn lung and angina (and who knows what else since research is scant) not to mention the "vape" is an aerosol which potentially has a whole host of negative long term effects.

Their advantage over tobacco is that they don't contain the tar or as many potentially harmful chemicals and they don't smell as bad.

I don't think they're "helping" many people, I think they're just an alternative delivery device that keeps the money rolling in for the tobacco industry (which owns most of the vaping companies) for one of the most addictive substances known to man and as a BONUS for the industry it's proven super easy to sell to KIDS.

IMHO the best HELP for people that just can't quit cold turkey are other nicotine replacement alternatives (i.e. patches) that are much safer.

"They're expensive." Well, it's not your money, so what business is that of yours?

"They're designed to keep people's addiction going." Prove it.

"They're known to contain other potentially harmful chemicals." What chemicals are those? Please cite sources as to which "potentially harmful chemicals" have been conclusively proven to exist in all vape juice.

"Cause popcorn lung and angina." Well, when you cite the sources of conclusive proof about the specific chemicals you refer to, they should also contain conclusive proof that all vape juice causes popcorn lung and angina. I eagerly await your provision of your evidence.

"It's an AEROSOL!" You seem to keep using that word like it's supposed to automatically mean a bad thing.

Their advantages over tobacco are many, and it's very obvious that you haven't bothered to actually research the question, preferring to read headlines and then insert your personal extrapolations as fact.

"I don't think they help anyone." Well, no one asked you to have an opinion about it, which seems to be a very important aspect of many things in our society which no one considers. It's really up to the people using them to decide whether their lives are helped or not. I don't know any of those people who have given you a vote in their lives.

The tobacco industry owns a lot of the shit e-cigs sold alongside cigarettes at convenience stores, that's true. You do know that those pieces of crap don't comprise "the vape industry", right?

"IMHO" always seems to mean "I'm about to be incredibly pompous and arrogant and butt into things that are none of my business". Ironic.

If anyone ever asks you for your advice on how they should quit smoking and live their lives, please feel free to tell them. Until then, please consider the possibility that you haven't been asked because no one is interested.

 

[NightFox]

I used to be a very heavy smoker. I tried my first ecig and never had another tobacco cigarette. Over the years I cut down the nicotine percentage to zero. I've been at zero nic since 2011.

And yet because a few people got fucked up by some illegal vapes they want to ban the shit out of something that is actually helping people.

Just out of curiosity, how exactly are vaping devices helping people?

You do understand that vaping was created to be an alternative to tobacco smoking, and to help people quit doing that, right?

Where did you get that idea? vaping as we know it today (i.e. solid state devices with nicotine added to the consumable) wasn't created to help people quit tobacco smoking, it was created and (very successfully) marketed to expand the market for nicotine delivery devices, why do you think vaping has such a large user base that have never been tobacco smokers? It's was a brilliant product idea to counter the growing anti-tobacco sentiment among consumers, that's why the Big Tobacco companies bought up nearly the entire market, it's their future cash cow.

And it works for a lot of those people where nothing else has. You don't consider quitting smoking to be helpful?

Not when the mechanism is only somewhat less destructive, still as expensive as tobacco and is heavily marketed to children to the point that they mistakenly think that it's "safe", at this point we're still unsure of all the health risks but anecdotal evidence suggests that long term use can lead to serious pulmonary and heart issues.

On balance that isn't "helpful" IMHO, especially given that there are alternative NRT's that have plenty of research to indicate that they're safer as well as effective and the MOST effective treatments for quitting tobacco smoking appear to be low-cost, cold turkey type therapy (i.e. Allen Carr).

 

[Cecilie1200]

I was not aware of it being a specific product problem, the news sounded like it was a generic flaw of all e-cigs. But they did say there was no specific information, an no study has been done..

No, they are selling it like that. This was a local issue with probably one bad batch of vape oils.

If that's the case, this is really an enforcement issue. Whoever made it is supposed to supply the ingredient list to the FDA, and each ingredient in turn in regulated by the FDA for purity and efficacy. If somebody made a bad batch, there are regulations or laws meant to prevent that.

Enforce them, instead of adding more.

Dude, try to actually get the information before talking. The reason there was a "bad batch" is because it wasn't being sold by a licensed user who submits any fucking thing to the FDA. That's what the term "black market" means.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I used to be a very heavy smoker. I tried my first ecig and never had another tobacco cigarette. Over the years I cut down the nicotine percentage to zero. I've been at zero nic since 2011.

And yet because a few people got fucked up by some illegal vapes they want to ban the shit out of something that is actually helping people.

Just out of curiosity, how exactly are vaping devices helping people?

It helps them get their nicotine fix without having to smoke or chew.

They're expensive nicotine delivery devices designed to keep people's addiction going, they also are known to contain other potentially harmful chemicals which can cause conditions like popcorn lung and angina (and who knows what else since research is scant) not to mention the "vape" is an aerosol which potentially has a whole host of negative long term effects.

Their advantage over tobacco is that they don't contain the tar or as many potentially harmful chemicals and they don't smell as bad.

I don't think they're "helping" many people, I think they're just an alternative delivery device that keeps the money rolling in for the tobacco industry (which owns most of the vaping companies) for one of the most addictive substances known to man and as a BONUS for the industry it's proven super easy to sell to KIDS.

IMHO the best HELP for people that just can't quit cold turkey are other nicotine replacement alternatives (i.e. patches) that are much safer.

If people want to use nicotine recreationally, who the fuck are you to stop them?

Are you caffeine and alcohol free?

Let he who has never eaten fast food throw the first stone.

 

[Cecilie1200]

What do you mean "no second hand smoke risks" ??? It's an aerosol (which your lungs aren't exactly designed to breath) laced with NICOTINE as well as other potentially harmful chemicals.

You're right that e-cigs do smell better, they also don't contain the tar or nearly as many potentially harmful chemicals as tobacco, but make no mistake, if you're a non-smoker you don't want to breath that shit for any length of time.

That being said, I don't support banning them.

As you know tobacco products emit smoke from both ends. e-cigs reduce the external emissions to far lower levels.
Unlike tobacco, second hand vape should have most of it's active ingredients absorbed by the smoker, and shouldn't be exhaled.

But I could be wrong.

You're right but the key word you said is MOST of it's active ingredients, exhaled "vape" is an aerosol with chemicals still in it. I don't want sit around and breathe that shit coming out of somebody else's lungs for any length of time regardless of how "nice" it smells, do you?

I'm not one of those rabid anti-smoking people either and I don't think e-cigs should be banned, just trying to look at the question realistically.

Who asked you to "sit around" and do anything? Someone chain you to the fucking floor? Feel free to get the fuck up and MOVE, the way I do when someone walks in reeking of cheap perfume so badly that I cough until I gag.

Your definition of "realistically" does not resemble our English definition.

 

[Cecilie1200]

IMHO the best HELP for people that just can't quit cold turkey are other nicotine replacement alternatives (i.e. patches) that are much safer.

If people want to use nicotine recreationally, who the fuck are you to stop them?

Are you caffeine and alcohol free?

In the end, almost everything used in excess is harmful. The idea of banning anything should be based on good vs harm. And right now I know a lot more people who used to be heavy chain smokers switching to vaping than going cold turkey.

Night apparently thinks the primary purpose of quitting smoking is to gain his/her approval by passing his/her personal test for moral character.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

I used to be a very heavy smoker. I tried my first ecig and never had another tobacco cigarette. Over the years I cut down the nicotine percentage to zero. I've been at zero nic since 2011.

And yet because a few people got fucked up by some illegal vapes they want to ban the shit out of something that is actually helping people.

Just out of curiosity, how exactly are vaping devices helping people?

You do understand that vaping was created to be an alternative to tobacco smoking, and to help people quit doing that, right?

Where did you get that idea? vaping as we know it today (i.e. solid state devices with nicotine added to the consumable) wasn't created to help people quit tobacco smoking, it was created and (very successfully) marketed to expand the market for nicotine delivery devices, why do you think vaping has such a large user base that have never been tobacco smokers? It's was a brilliant product idea to counter the growing anti-tobacco sentiment among consumers, that's why the Big Tobacco companies bought up nearly the entire market, it's their future cash cow.

And it works for a lot of those people where nothing else has. You don't consider quitting smoking to be helpful?

Not when the mechanism is only somewhat less destructive, still as expensive as tobacco and is heavily marketed to children to the point that they mistakenly think that it's "safe", at this point we're still unsure of all the health risks but anecdotal evidence suggests that long term use can lead to serious pulmonary and heart issues.

On balance that isn't "helpful" IMHO, especially given that there are alternative NRT's that have plenty of research to indicate that they're safer as well as effective and the MOST effective treatments for quitting tobacco smoking appear to be low-cost, cold turkey type therapy (i.e. Allen Carr).

Nicotine isn't always added. Many people who vape don't use nicotine at all. I don't. I have not used nicotine in many years.

I did quit cold turkey years ago. I quit for a couple of years. I never liked it and finally just gave up. Cold turkey just wasn't that effective. I don't see any marketing to children of vape products. Where is it?

This reminds me of the idiocy years ago over saccharine. People used saccharine as a sweetner. It kept them away from sugar. To hear the experts tell it, the dead bodies of saccharine users were lining the streets. The product was banned. Then the same experts said it was a mistake saccharine was perfectly safe.

This is just more of the same nonsense.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You're right but the key word you said is MOST of it's active ingredients, exhaled "vape" is an aerosol with chemicals still in it. I don't want sit around and breathe that shit coming out of somebody else's lungs for any length of time regardless of how "nice" it smells, do you?

I'm not one of those rabid anti-smoking people either and I don't think e-cigs should be banned, just trying to look at the question realistically.

Well, that goes to where they can be used. Cigarettes generally have a huge exclusion zone. Not in federal buildings, in designated areas of restaurants only etc.

Vaping is often not location regulated, or at least not yet.

Dunno where you're hanging out. Most places just lump vaping together with smoking and restrict them both to whatever smoking area they have. Which is pretty annoying in some regards, since people who vape have no more desire to breathe secondhand smoke than anyone else does.

Usually, I encounter people who react like I just released a canister of sarin gas in completely public areas, like sidewalks and bus stops and such. "OMG, how dare you pollute my lungs?!" You're standing two feet from a major street in Phoenix, and a city bus just drove by belching exhaust, you fruitcake. Did you really think you were breathing pure mountain air until I came along?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Personally I don't really have a problem with that since if someone if vaping or smoking, I'll go somewhere else, doesn't really bother me to move, doesn't happen that often.

That's fine if you're out in the open, and can just walk away. But what about being stuck on a line, and the guy behind you wants to smoke like a chimney?

Again, where the hell are you hanging out that this is happening?

 

[Cecilie1200]

If someone is smoking you know. You can smell it. Vape has no smell or ash or anything.

Well, I disagree with the "no smell" part. My son always hugs me and then wants to know if I've been eating cookies without him.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I wonder if vaping can the real cause of this Trump Derangement Syndrome mental illness?

Welcome to the topic, but as I said, intelligently discuss, you sound like my grandson who's still learning english.

Let me guess. You vape.

Let me guess. You're an ignorant snowflake.

 

[NightFox]

What do you mean "no second hand smoke risks" ??? It's an aerosol (which your lungs aren't exactly designed to breath) laced with NICOTINE as well as other potentially harmful chemicals.

You're right that e-cigs do smell better, they also don't contain the tar or nearly as many potentially harmful chemicals as tobacco, but make no mistake, if you're a non-smoker you don't want to breath that shit for any length of time.

That being said, I don't support banning them.

As you know tobacco products emit smoke from both ends. e-cigs reduce the external emissions to far lower levels.
Unlike tobacco, second hand vape should have most of it's active ingredients absorbed by the smoker, and shouldn't be exhaled.

But I could be wrong.

You're right but the key word you said is MOST of it's active ingredients, exhaled "vape" is an aerosol with chemicals still in it. I don't want sit around and breathe that shit coming out of somebody else's lungs for any length of time regardless of how "nice" it smells, do you?

I'm not one of those rabid anti-smoking people either and I don't think e-cigs should be banned, just trying to look at the question realistically.

Who asked you to "sit around" and do anything? Someone chain you to the fucking floor? Feel free to get the fuck up and MOVE, the way I do when someone walks in reeking of cheap perfume so badly that I cough until I gag.

Your definition of "realistically" does not resemble our English definition.

The next time you want to insert yourself into the middle of a conversation and start throwing around insults maybe you should at least take the time to READ THE ENTIRE CONVERSATION FIRST, this particular conversation was obviously WAY above your pay grade.

You don't need to rationalize your habits to me, feel free to go vape your brains, heart and lungs out because I don't care what you do to yourself and never have.
Off you go to /dev/null where nitwits that are incapable of carrying on discussions using reason belong.

 

[Cecilie1200]

That's pretty funny, since the "vaping deaths" have been linked to THC.

Hey idiot, nobody in the history of mankind has overdosed from THC

Hey, idiot, nobody said they overdosed.

I have a two-step action plan for you to contribute something useful to the discussion.

1) Research the fucking topic beyond reading a couple of headlines on the Interwebs.

2) Maybe ease back on the weed smoking if it makes you this frigging paranoid. Nobody's attacking your precious joints, so just chill.

 

[Cecilie1200]

And I would like to see the evidence that flavors are specifically for "enticing young people", as opposed to just providing something that users in general want.

That would be impossible to do.....but you don't get less attention from kids with flavors like bubblegum...do ya?....

So what you're telling me is that adults shouldn't be able to get things that they like if kids like them as well? That anything kids like is automatically targeted at them, rather than JUST POSSIBLY targeted at adults with the same tastes?

 

[NightFox]

I used to be a very heavy smoker. I tried my first ecig and never had another tobacco cigarette. Over the years I cut down the nicotine percentage to zero. I've been at zero nic since 2011.

And yet because a few people got fucked up by some illegal vapes they want to ban the shit out of something that is actually helping people.

Just out of curiosity, how exactly are vaping devices helping people?

You do understand that vaping was created to be an alternative to tobacco smoking, and to help people quit doing that, right?

Where did you get that idea? vaping as we know it today (i.e. solid state devices with nicotine added to the consumable) wasn't created to help people quit tobacco smoking, it was created and (very successfully) marketed to expand the market for nicotine delivery devices, why do you think vaping has such a large user base that have never been tobacco smokers? It's was a brilliant product idea to counter the growing anti-tobacco sentiment among consumers, that's why the Big Tobacco companies bought up nearly the entire market, it's their future cash cow.

And it works for a lot of those people where nothing else has. You don't consider quitting smoking to be helpful?

Not when the mechanism is only somewhat less destructive, still as expensive as tobacco and is heavily marketed to children to the point that they mistakenly think that it's "safe", at this point we're still unsure of all the health risks but anecdotal evidence suggests that long term use can lead to serious pulmonary and heart issues.

On balance that isn't "helpful" IMHO, especially given that there are alternative NRT's that have plenty of research to indicate that they're safer as well as effective and the MOST effective treatments for quitting tobacco smoking appear to be low-cost, cold turkey type therapy (i.e. Allen Carr).

Nicotine isn't always added. Many people who vape don't use nicotine at all. I don't. I have not used nicotine in many years.

I guess I should have been more precise, I was referring to the nicotine versions of the products only.

I did quit cold turkey years ago. I quit for a couple of years. I never liked it and finally just gave up. Cold turkey just wasn't that effective.

I can understand your situation, had a long conversation about these issues with a family member that was trying to quit and went through some researching because it turned out to be an interesting conundrum. It appears that some of the most (statistically) effective methods are cold-turkey therapy like Allen Carr, even more effective than prescription drug alternatives and NRT's (like patches, gum, inhalers).

I think people that want to quit tobacco deserve all the support they can get, my point was that there are safer NRT's than vaping products for people that just can't do it cold turkey.

I don't see any marketing to children of vape products. Where is it?

It's all over the place, walk into any convenience store that sells the product and look at the Ad's along with the product selection (form factors and flavors) not to mention all the marketing online, explains why these products have been so successful with teens, I've talked to teens that think vaping is a healthy alternative to tobacco, which is crazy.

 

[BlindBoo]

wasn't created to help people quit tobacco smoking, it was created and (very successfully) marketed to expand the market for nicotine delivery devices

Nah I'm pretty sure it was so kids could smoke dope right under mom and dad's nose!

"No mom, it's not smoke. See, it smells like Girl Scout Cookies!"

 

[Flash]

I wonder if vaping can the real cause of this Trump Derangement Syndrome mental illness?

Welcome to the topic, but as I said, intelligently discuss, you sound like my grandson who's still learning english.

Let me guess. You vape.

Let me guess. You're an ignorant snowflake.

You didn't answer my question Moon Bat. Are you addicted to vaping?

 

[Flash]

I wonder if vaping can the real cause of this Trump Derangement Syndrome mental illness?

I'm sure you are amazed, and I'm also sure you are always astonished, astounded, surprised, bewildered, flabbergasted, stupefied, aghast, dumbfounded, dazed, perplexed and confused.

Vaping has caused some serious illness for people that nobody ever knew was going to happen.

Isn't it possible that vaping is the also the cause of the national mental health epidemic of Trump Derangement Syndrome? You know, destroying the mind? Don't you think it is worthwhile to do more studies? You know, for the health of the public? You stupid Moon Bats are always looking for excuses for the government to interfere in our lives so don't you think this is a good candidate to investigate?

Something abnormal is causing the TDS mental illness among you stupid Moon Bats. We should find out if it is the consequence of vaping.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I used to be a very heavy smoker. I tried my first ecig and never had another tobacco cigarette. Over the years I cut down the nicotine percentage to zero. I've been at zero nic since 2011.

And yet because a few people got fucked up by some illegal vapes they want to ban the shit out of something that is actually helping people.

Just out of curiosity, how exactly are vaping devices helping people?

You do understand that vaping was created to be an alternative to tobacco smoking, and to help people quit doing that, right?

Where did you get that idea? vaping as we know it today (i.e. solid state devices with nicotine added to the consumable) wasn't created to help people quit tobacco smoking, it was created and (very successfully) marketed to expand the market for nicotine delivery devices, why do you think vaping has such a large user base that have never been tobacco smokers? It's was a brilliant product idea to counter the growing anti-tobacco sentiment among consumers, that's why the Big Tobacco companies bought up nearly the entire market, it's their future cash cow.

And it works for a lot of those people where nothing else has. You don't consider quitting smoking to be helpful?

Not when the mechanism is only somewhat less destructive, still as expensive as tobacco and is heavily marketed to children to the point that they mistakenly think that it's "safe", at this point we're still unsure of all the health risks but anecdotal evidence suggests that long term use can lead to serious pulmonary and heart issues.

On balance that isn't "helpful" IMHO, especially given that there are alternative NRT's that have plenty of research to indicate that they're safer as well as effective and the MOST effective treatments for quitting tobacco smoking appear to be low-cost, cold turkey type therapy (i.e. Allen Carr).

Here you are, asserting more things you think you know as fact without evidence. The first commercially successful e-cigarette, Ruyan, was developed in China by a smoker whose father died of lung cancer, specifically as a smoking alternative. People throughout the years previously attempted to develop such devices for several different reasons, but never got anywhere with it. Yes, tobacco companies were among them, and they jumped on attempting to use it to maintain their market share, but the vape industry in the US has always been focused toward smoking cessation.

As someone who vapes and has never smoked, I'm pretty sure I know better than you the reasons behind it. As it happens, it's replacing another substance with far greater health impact and risks than vaping carries. And before you jump into telling me what you "know" about how that's wrong, and what your opinion is on what I "should" do, please recall that I didn't ask, don't care, and have not given you a vote in my life.

In no way is vaping only "somewhat less destructive", until you can show me anything like the same numbers for lung cancer, emphysema, and death. It is also significantly less expensive than tobacco. And you and your cohorts keep screeching, "Marketed to children! Marketed to children!" and have yet to demonstrate any proof, other than a vague, "Well, they have candy flavors", as though only children like candy.

The problem with the "alternative NRTs" you mention is that there are people for whom they don't work. There are also people who simply don't want to use them. And there are whole rafts of people who did not ask you or anyone else what the "best" thing for them is. It's up to them - us - to decide what is best for us. Accept it.