What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[HappyJoy]

No, actually we don't.

More Unskilled Workers, Please

Unskilled Immigrants Do Not Harm Americans

The Danger From Low-Skilled Immigrants: Not Having Them

Read the articles, I could pull out quotes from them but I get the feeling I'm already wasting my time linking the articles.

Other than that treating people like cattle is inhumane no matter how you want to make excuses for it.

Sorry, I don't believe in open borders. And I don't believe in filling the country with unskilled workers. I didn't say we didn't need ANY, just not a free-for-all.

Nobody believes in open borders, can we finally kill that strawman? Like it or not, we need unskilled workers here, we don't have enough currently but you'd rather blabber about some idiotic notion that you don't believe in 'filling the country with unskilled workers', whatever that hell that means. Shit,who can argue with such a defined and well thought out position.

Hmmm. If we need unskilled workers so bad, I guess the 3.8% unemployed in our country must be skilled workers.

We need unskilled workers because we don't have enough of our own and as our population ages the need is only going to be greater. I've already provided links but you chose to ignore them and instead rely on your own xenophobia.

Yes, that's what it is, xenophobia. You must be desperate to use that worn out card.

Why else would you be against unskilled labor that we need? I'll await your non answer.

 

[WelfareQueen]

Jeff Sessions and Donald Trump:

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Monday at a law enforcement conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. "If you don't like that, then don't smuggle children over our border."

Administration officials explained that the goal of the program is 100 percent prosecution of all who enter the U.S. illegally. When adults are prosecuted and jailed, their children will be separated from them, just as would happen for a U.S. citizen convicted and jailed.​

Anguish at Southwest border as more immigrant children are separated from parents

The Trump administration's willingness to take children from their parents has raised concerns about how far authorities should go to stem unauthorized border crossings and what human cost is acceptable in the name of border security and immigration control.

"There is something terrible happening here that Americans would not support if they understood it," said F. Scott McCown, director of the Children’s Rights Clinic at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law.​

I don't care how much you hate illegal immigrants this is EVIL. You are punishing the children. It's abhorrant and wrong and inexcusable. I hope they rot in hell for this. 700 children so far have been seperated from the only family they know and lost to our often incompetent and mismanaged child care system. I fail to see how any parent could support actions like these.

When parents are held for prosecution, their children are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, part of the Department of Health and Human Services. The children are then designated as "unaccompanied minors," and the government tries to connect them to family members who are already in the U.S. Until then, children wait in shelters or are sent to federally contracted foster homes, often without parents being told exactly where they are, immigration advocates said.

It may soon become even more difficult to place children with relatives. The Department of Homeland Security is proposing immigration checks be done on all people in a household who may take in these "unaccompanied" children, which means relatives who are undocumented may be less likely to come forward.

In the meantime, space in shelters and foster homes is limited; The Washington Post reported the administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.​

Maybe obey our Laws and enter the Country legally? It's a thought.

I have no problem with that. I have no problem with a hearing and, if determined deportation.

Do you think it's necessary to inact this draconian policy in the meantime?

My understanding is that it would be inhumane to house small children in adult detention facilities with potential pedophiles or other serious criminals. Kind of makes sense doesn't? Would you want your 8 year old child housed in a maximum security prison with adult male inmates? My guess is probably not.

That is why kids are adults are separated. Plus...it is the Law. And we are a Nation of Laws or should be.

We are a nation of laws but we also can exercise discretion. Families don’t have to be housed in with serious offenders. Kids don’t have to be removed. We exercised this discretion before why not now?

Sorry....the law is the law. Under US law in this circumstance kids have to be removed to protect them when their adult parents have broken the law and you do not want to house kids in adult correctional facilities. And yeah....their parents broke the law so they have to go in correctional facilities just like the rest of us when we break the law.

Kind of easy to understand in my opinion. Slave owners exercised "discretion" in violation of US Law. It doesn't make it right. Either we are a Nation of Laws or we are not. It really could not be more simple. You cannot pick and choose the Laws you like versus the ones you do not.

 

[WelfareQueen]

 

[koshergrl]

Not sure about that. Read about Portugal after 10 years of decriminalization of all drugs. With the illegal drug business estimated at 40 billion a year and growing rapidly, we will reach a point where we will have no choice. I'm not in favor of it but we're running out of options. The war on drugs was lost decades ago. There is no way we can control the growing use of illegal drugs.
Ten Years Ago Portugal Decriminalized All Drugs. What Happened Next? | The Fix

There's possibly a minor flipside to legalizing drugs.

The cartels will see their cash cow dwindle away. It is possible, likely even, that those drug wars will move across our border and we might see Americans killed in their own country if the cartels see legalization as competition.

Of course, that's conjecture. But legitimate conjecture, I think.

I remember when they were trying to get the lottery passed in our state many years ago. One of the claims was that it would stop illegal gambling and wipe out the mob. Instead, the mob started to use the new lottery numbers for their own game. They just had a better payout than the lottery and did even better.

When they pushed the issue of legalized pot in Colorado, it was claimed that it would stop the illegal sales of pot on the street. What actually happened is that pot dealers beat the price of high taxed legal weed, and they are selling more than ever.

I don't think that's a problem in Washington. The pot is legally grown mostly on local farms and in California so there couldn't be the kind of profit the mob would expect. Biggest benefit is law enforcement can devote resources to serious crimes. One thing I don't like about it being legalized is the pot shops can't accept credit cards because of federal law so it's a cash business which makes the shops a big target for robbers. There also may be some zoning restrictions because they are located in rather shabby areas. I really don't think legalizing pot has has created either the positive or negative impact that people expected.

You just sound like a straight up criminal all around.

I have found that is true of most commiecrats.

 

[Taz]

Sorry, I don't believe in open borders. And I don't believe in filling the country with unskilled workers. I didn't say we didn't need ANY, just not a free-for-all.

Nobody believes in open borders, can we finally kill that strawman? Like it or not, we need unskilled workers here, we don't have enough currently but you'd rather blabber about some idiotic notion that you don't believe in 'filling the country with unskilled workers', whatever that hell that means. Shit,who can argue with such a defined and well thought out position.

Then your concession is duly noted. Thank you.

Wasn't there a troll on this board who used to reply to posts just like that? Can't remember his name but when he ran out of things to say he basically took credit for a concession that was never given.

What you have given is stating that you don't give a shit about families of immigrants who even come here legally to be separated and your reason for not caring which is an influx of unskilled workers isn't even a problem and in actuality we need more of them but you ignore all of that and go on your merry way.

Coming here illegally isn't coming here legally. Now you know.

Asylum seekers who are also being separated from their children are coming here legally. It shouldn't be done with any families but especially not those that are following the rules. Please keep up.

I don't consider all of Central America asylum seekers. Their counties are shit, that's not a legit reason.

 

[danielpalos]

The fact is that the Alt Right hates any immigrant, legal as well as illegal, and those of color in particular.

They seem to prefer socialism on a national basis over capitalism, at every opportunity.

 

[HappyJoy]

Nobody believes in open borders, can we finally kill that strawman? Like it or not, we need unskilled workers here, we don't have enough currently but you'd rather blabber about some idiotic notion that you don't believe in 'filling the country with unskilled workers', whatever that hell that means. Shit,who can argue with such a defined and well thought out position.

Then your concession is duly noted. Thank you.

Wasn't there a troll on this board who used to reply to posts just like that? Can't remember his name but when he ran out of things to say he basically took credit for a concession that was never given.

What you have given is stating that you don't give a shit about families of immigrants who even come here legally to be separated and your reason for not caring which is an influx of unskilled workers isn't even a problem and in actuality we need more of them but you ignore all of that and go on your merry way.

Coming here illegally isn't coming here legally. Now you know.

Asylum seekers who are also being separated from their children are coming here legally. It shouldn't be done with any families but especially not those that are following the rules. Please keep up.

I don't consider all of Central America asylum seekers. Their counties are shit, that's not a legit reason.

Guess what, 'all of Central America' is not seeking asylum. Anyway, there is such a thing as economic asylum seekers, that you don't recognize that status exists means you need to read more.

Who is an asylum seeker, and who is a refugee?

As defined in Article 1(1)(a) of the 1951 Convention for Refugee Protection, a refugee is an individual who is fleeing his/her country of origin, owing to a well-founded fear of persecution on grounds of race, nationality, ethnicity, or affiliation to a particular political group. An asylum seeker is a person who has yet to make an application to the host country, or is awaiting a decision on an application or claim that has already been made or submitted. As with refugee law, under human rights law as well, (eg., Article 14 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights), every individual has a right to ask a State for asylum; however, there exists no duty on States to grant asylum, but only to consider fairly the claim for asylum made before them. While every asylum seeker might not become a refugee (if their claim is denied), every refugee at some point has been an asylum seeker (awaiting a refugee status determination).

Distinguishing Between Asylum Seekers and Economic Migrants: An Analysis of State Practice

We are legally obliged to consider all people seeking asylum. And they are people, not animals and should be treated as human but for whatever god damned reason you want asylum seekers to pay some sort of emotional price for their decision to better their lives from where they came from and to do it legally. Kind of fucked up on your part.

 

[koshergrl]

Sorry, I don't believe in open borders. And I don't believe in filling the country with unskilled workers. I didn't say we didn't need ANY, just not a free-for-all.

Nobody believes in open borders, can we finally kill that strawman? Like it or not, we need unskilled workers here, we don't have enough currently but you'd rather blabber about some idiotic notion that you don't believe in 'filling the country with unskilled workers', whatever that hell that means. Shit,who can argue with such a defined and well thought out position.

Then your concession is duly noted. Thank you.

Wasn't there a troll on this board who used to reply to posts just like that? Can't remember his name but when he ran out of things to say he basically took credit for a concession that was never given.

What you have given is stating that you don't give a shit about families of immigrants who even come here legally to be separated and your reason for not caring which is an influx of unskilled workers isn't even a problem and in actuality we need more of them but you ignore all of that and go on your merry way.

Coming here illegally isn't coming here legally. Now you know.

Asylum seekers who are also being separated from their children are coming here legally. It shouldn't be done with any families but especially not those that are following the rules. Please keep up.

Oh well.

 

[HappyJoy]

Nobody believes in open borders, can we finally kill that strawman? Like it or not, we need unskilled workers here, we don't have enough currently but you'd rather blabber about some idiotic notion that you don't believe in 'filling the country with unskilled workers', whatever that hell that means. Shit,who can argue with such a defined and well thought out position.

Then your concession is duly noted. Thank you.

Wasn't there a troll on this board who used to reply to posts just like that? Can't remember his name but when he ran out of things to say he basically took credit for a concession that was never given.

What you have given is stating that you don't give a shit about families of immigrants who even come here legally to be separated and your reason for not caring which is an influx of unskilled workers isn't even a problem and in actuality we need more of them but you ignore all of that and go on your merry way.

Coming here illegally isn't coming here legally. Now you know.

Asylum seekers who are also being separated from their children are coming here legally. It shouldn't be done with any families but especially not those that are following the rules. Please keep up.

Oh well.

I'm sure Taz will be delighted to know that you and him are simpatico on this issue.

 

[Coyote]

We are a nation of laws but we also can exercise discretion.

Interesting...

How much? How much discretion is required for it to be acceptable?

You say we're a nation of laws. Are we? Are we a nation of laws when we continually look for ways to circumvent them like we do with immigration? Like states and cities do with sanctuary laws?

Families don’t have to be housed in with serious offenders. Kids don’t have to be removed. We exercised this discretion before why not now?

That's like saying there should be no consequences for their coming here illegally. If they aren't going to obey our laws with one set of consequences, then another continuum of consequences must be set in place. The severity of the punishment must be enhanced.

What do you think would serve as a reliable and "humane" deterrent?

How is that saying there should be no consequences?

They are detained.
They will get a hearing.
They will most likely be deported.

At a minimum, because there could also be incarceration or fines.

How are those NOT consequences?

 

[koshergrl]

Then your concession is duly noted. Thank you.

Wasn't there a troll on this board who used to reply to posts just like that? Can't remember his name but when he ran out of things to say he basically took credit for a concession that was never given.

What you have given is stating that you don't give a shit about families of immigrants who even come here legally to be separated and your reason for not caring which is an influx of unskilled workers isn't even a problem and in actuality we need more of them but you ignore all of that and go on your merry way.

Coming here illegally isn't coming here legally. Now you know.

Asylum seekers who are also being separated from their children are coming here legally. It shouldn't be done with any families but especially not those that are following the rules. Please keep up.

Oh well.

I'm sure Taz will be delighted to know that you and him are simpatico on this issue.

There's a reason for separating the kids. The people trying to smuggle them in know that is what they are facing. For the most part, these are not safe people to leave children with..they tend not to really care what happens to them.

And the ones who are stellar wonderful parents who aren't traffickers or gang members or wanted for a crime somewhere..they will be reunited with their kids later. They knew that, they chose this route.

 

[Coyote]

Jeff Sessions and Donald Trump:

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Monday at a law enforcement conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. "If you don't like that, then don't smuggle children over our border."

Administration officials explained that the goal of the program is 100 percent prosecution of all who enter the U.S. illegally. When adults are prosecuted and jailed, their children will be separated from them, just as would happen for a U.S. citizen convicted and jailed.​

Anguish at Southwest border as more immigrant children are separated from parents

The Trump administration's willingness to take children from their parents has raised concerns about how far authorities should go to stem unauthorized border crossings and what human cost is acceptable in the name of border security and immigration control.

"There is something terrible happening here that Americans would not support if they understood it," said F. Scott McCown, director of the Children’s Rights Clinic at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law.​

I don't care how much you hate illegal immigrants this is EVIL. You are punishing the children. It's abhorrant and wrong and inexcusable. I hope they rot in hell for this. 700 children so far have been seperated from the only family they know and lost to our often incompetent and mismanaged child care system. I fail to see how any parent could support actions like these.

When parents are held for prosecution, their children are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, part of the Department of Health and Human Services. The children are then designated as "unaccompanied minors," and the government tries to connect them to family members who are already in the U.S. Until then, children wait in shelters or are sent to federally contracted foster homes, often without parents being told exactly where they are, immigration advocates said.

It may soon become even more difficult to place children with relatives. The Department of Homeland Security is proposing immigration checks be done on all people in a household who may take in these "unaccompanied" children, which means relatives who are undocumented may be less likely to come forward.

In the meantime, space in shelters and foster homes is limited; The Washington Post reported the administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.​

Maybe obey our Laws and enter the Country legally? It's a thought.

I have no problem with that. I have no problem with a hearing and, if determined deportation.

Do you think it's necessary to inact this draconian policy in the meantime?

My understanding is that it would be inhumane to house small children in adult detention facilities with potential pedophiles or other serious criminals. Kind of makes sense doesn't? Would you want your 8 year old child housed in a maximum security prison with adult male inmates? My guess is probably not.

That is why kids are adults are separated. Plus...it is the Law. And we are a Nation of Laws or should be.

We are a nation of laws but we also can exercise discretion. Families don’t have to be housed in with serious offenders. Kids don’t have to be removed. We exercised this discretion before why not now?

Sorry....the law is the law. Under US law in this circumstance kids have to be removed to protect them when their adult parents have broken the law and you do not want to house kids in adult correctional facilities. And yeah....their parents broke the law so they have to go in correctional facilities just like the rest of us when we break the law.

Kind of easy to understand in my opinion. Slave owners exercised "discretion" in violation of US Law. It doesn't make it right. Either we are a Nation of Laws or we are not. It really could not be more simple. You cannot pick and choose the Laws you like versus the ones you do not.

Jaywalking is against the law. So is parking in no parking areas. Should their kids be removed? Should they be put into correctional institutions? Why aren’t they?

 

[koshergrl]

Maybe obey our Laws and enter the Country legally? It's a thought.

I have no problem with that. I have no problem with a hearing and, if determined deportation.

Do you think it's necessary to inact this draconian policy in the meantime?

My understanding is that it would be inhumane to house small children in adult detention facilities with potential pedophiles or other serious criminals. Kind of makes sense doesn't? Would you want your 8 year old child housed in a maximum security prison with adult male inmates? My guess is probably not.

That is why kids are adults are separated. Plus...it is the Law. And we are a Nation of Laws or should be.

We are a nation of laws but we also can exercise discretion. Families don’t have to be housed in with serious offenders. Kids don’t have to be removed. We exercised this discretion before why not now?

Sorry....the law is the law. Under US law in this circumstance kids have to be removed to protect them when their adult parents have broken the law and you do not want to house kids in adult correctional facilities. And yeah....their parents broke the law so they have to go in correctional facilities just like the rest of us when we break the law.

Kind of easy to understand in my opinion. Slave owners exercised "discretion" in violation of US Law. It doesn't make it right. Either we are a Nation of Laws or we are not. It really could not be more simple. You cannot pick and choose the Laws you like versus the ones you do not.

Jaywalking is against the law. So is parking in no parking areas. Should their kids be removed? Should they be put into correctional institutions? Why aren’t they?

If they are jaywalking with their kids in their arms, yup. If they are joyriding with children in the rig..absolutely.

 

[Coyote]

Wasn't there a troll on this board who used to reply to posts just like that? Can't remember his name but when he ran out of things to say he basically took credit for a concession that was never given.

What you have given is stating that you don't give a shit about families of immigrants who even come here legally to be separated and your reason for not caring which is an influx of unskilled workers isn't even a problem and in actuality we need more of them but you ignore all of that and go on your merry way.

Coming here illegally isn't coming here legally. Now you know.

Asylum seekers who are also being separated from their children are coming here legally. It shouldn't be done with any families but especially not those that are following the rules. Please keep up.

Oh well.

I'm sure Taz will be delighted to know that you and him are simpatico on this issue.

There's a reason for separating the kids. The people trying to smuggle them in know that is what they are facing. For the most part, these are not safe people to leave children with..they tend not to really care what happens to them.

And the ones who are stellar wonderful parents who aren't traffickers or gang members or wanted for a crime somewhere..they will be reunited with their kids later. They knew that, they chose this route.

There are thousands of kids involved...kids do get lost in the system. It is not designed to handle this kind of load. I guarantee kids will get lost.

 

[HappyJoy]

Wasn't there a troll on this board who used to reply to posts just like that? Can't remember his name but when he ran out of things to say he basically took credit for a concession that was never given.

What you have given is stating that you don't give a shit about families of immigrants who even come here legally to be separated and your reason for not caring which is an influx of unskilled workers isn't even a problem and in actuality we need more of them but you ignore all of that and go on your merry way.

Coming here illegally isn't coming here legally. Now you know.

Asylum seekers who are also being separated from their children are coming here legally. It shouldn't be done with any families but especially not those that are following the rules. Please keep up.

Oh well.

I'm sure Taz will be delighted to know that you and him are simpatico on this issue.

There's a reason for separating the kids. The people trying to smuggle them in know that is what they are facing. For the most part, these are not safe people to leave children with..they tend not to really care what happens to them.

Most kids crossing the border with adults are their families, if there is reason to believe or those parents are unable to prove they are there kids than a simple DNA test will resolve that.

And the ones who are stellar wonderful parents who aren't traffickers or gang members or wanted for a crime somewhere..they will be reunited with their kids later. They knew that, they chose this route.

Shouldn't be separated in the first place. They knew what? That they are leaving literal death traps behind wanting a better life for them and their children, it's probably still worth the risk to seek asylum and you want them to pay some sort of emotional toll for it. Pretty sick.

You're making great points for Taz though, basically 'fuck them, make 'em pay'.

 

[TemplarKormac]

We are a nation of laws but we also can exercise discretion.

Interesting...

How much? How much discretion is required for it to be acceptable?

You say we're a nation of laws. Are we? Are we a nation of laws when we continually look for ways to circumvent them like we do with immigration? Like states and cities do with sanctuary laws?

Families don’t have to be housed in with serious offenders. Kids don’t have to be removed. We exercised this discretion before why not now?

That's like saying there should be no consequences for their coming here illegally. If they aren't going to obey our laws with one set of consequences, then another continuum of consequences must be set in place. The severity of the punishment must be enhanced.

What do you think would serve as a reliable and "humane" deterrent?

How is that saying there should be no consequences?

They are detained.
They will get a hearing.
They will most likely be deported.

At a minimum, because there could also be incarceration or fines.

How are those NOT consequences?

They are. But apparently the existing set of these so-called consequences do not serve as a strong enough deterrent. Something more needs to be done.

Incarceration is insufficient because they will have gotten what they wanted from the country they came to illegally. Food and shelter. They get more than that if they flee to a sanctuary.

Fines are insufficient, what money are they going to pay them with?

Hearings serve little to no purpose when the party concerned fails to show up for it. Which also makes incarcerating and detaining them a moot point.

Detention serves little purpose when we allow them to skirt our immigration laws by fleeing to sanctuary cities.

Deporting them only means we get to see them cross our border again. Which just shows how little these people care about the existing consequences.

Despite all of this, they keep doing it, they keep breaking our laws. No, these no longer are consequences. Just unfulfilled ultimatums. I get the feeling you want to maintain the status quo. Stay the course with consequences that these people are not afraid of.

Take their child away from them, and that will instill fear and compliance. That is a consequence they will pay attention to.

 

[HappyJoy]

We are a nation of laws but we also can exercise discretion.

Interesting...

How much? How much discretion is required for it to be acceptable?

You say we're a nation of laws. Are we? Are we a nation of laws when we continually look for ways to circumvent them like we do with immigration? Like states and cities do with sanctuary laws?

Families don’t have to be housed in with serious offenders. Kids don’t have to be removed. We exercised this discretion before why not now?

That's like saying there should be no consequences for their coming here illegally. If they aren't going to obey our laws with one set of consequences, then another continuum of consequences must be set in place. The severity of the punishment must be enhanced.

What do you think would serve as a reliable and "humane" deterrent?

How is that saying there should be no consequences?

They are detained.
They will get a hearing.
They will most likely be deported.

At a minimum, because there could also be incarceration or fines.

How are those NOT consequences?

They are. But apparently the existing set of these so-called consequences do not serve as a strong enough deterrent. Something more needs to be done.

Incarceration is insufficient because they will have gotten what they wanted from the country they came to illegally. Food and shelter. They get more than that if they flee to a sanctuary.

Fines are insufficient, what money are they going to pay them with?

Hearings serve little to no purpose when the party concerned fails to show up for it. Which also makes incarcerating and detaining them a moot point.

Detention serves little purpose when we allow them to skirt our immigration laws by fleeing to sanctuary cities.

Reporting them only means we get to see them cross our border again. Which just shows how little these people care about the existing consequences.

Despite all of this, they keep doing it, they keep breaking our laws. No, these are no longer are consequences. Just unfulfilled ultimatums. I get the feeling you want to maintain the status quo. Stay the course with consequences that these people are not afraid of.

Take their child away from them, and that will instill fear and compliance. That is a consequence they will pay attention to.

Immigration is down regardless.

But removing children from families as a punishment. That's a new low.

 

[Cosmos]

Jeff Sessions and Donald Trump:

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Monday at a law enforcement conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. "If you don't like that, then don't smuggle children over our border."

Administration officials explained that the goal of the program is 100 percent prosecution of all who enter the U.S. illegally. When adults are prosecuted and jailed, their children will be separated from them, just as would happen for a U.S. citizen convicted and jailed.​

Anguish at Southwest border as more immigrant children are separated from parents

The Trump administration's willingness to take children from their parents has raised concerns about how far authorities should go to stem unauthorized border crossings and what human cost is acceptable in the name of border security and immigration control.

"There is something terrible happening here that Americans would not support if they understood it," said F. Scott McCown, director of the Children’s Rights Clinic at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law.​

I don't care how much you hate illegal immigrants this is EVIL. You are punishing the children. It's abhorrant and wrong and inexcusable. I hope they rot in hell for this. 700 children so far have been seperated from the only family they know and lost to our often incompetent and mismanaged child care system. I fail to see how any parent could support actions like these.

When parents are held for prosecution, their children are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, part of the Department of Health and Human Services. The children are then designated as "unaccompanied minors," and the government tries to connect them to family members who are already in the U.S. Until then, children wait in shelters or are sent to federally contracted foster homes, often without parents being told exactly where they are, immigration advocates said.

It may soon become even more difficult to place children with relatives. The Department of Homeland Security is proposing immigration checks be done on all people in a household who may take in these "unaccompanied" children, which means relatives who are undocumented may be less likely to come forward.

In the meantime, space in shelters and foster homes is limited; The Washington Post reported the administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.​

Yes, this is terrible. I think I know of a solution though: If you have children, STF away from our borders.

Then it clearly is not so terrible to you. It's a human cost you find WORTH IT.

They don't see them as human.

A human would go the the Port of Entry and present their immigrant visa that they obtained at the US Consulate in Mexico City.

A fucking animal crosses anywhere they can get away with it.

So yeah, there's that aspect.

An animal? Yep, you guys love to treat other humans as 'animals'.

BTW, it's not illegal to arrive at the border and present yourself as an asylum seeker, putz.

They can also do that at the US Consulate in Mexico City, dipshit. People who cross into the US illegally are no different than wild dogs.

 

[TemplarKormac]

We are a nation of laws but we also can exercise discretion.

Interesting...

How much? How much discretion is required for it to be acceptable?

You say we're a nation of laws. Are we? Are we a nation of laws when we continually look for ways to circumvent them like we do with immigration? Like states and cities do with sanctuary laws?

Families don’t have to be housed in with serious offenders. Kids don’t have to be removed. We exercised this discretion before why not now?

That's like saying there should be no consequences for their coming here illegally. If they aren't going to obey our laws with one set of consequences, then another continuum of consequences must be set in place. The severity of the punishment must be enhanced.

What do you think would serve as a reliable and "humane" deterrent?

How is that saying there should be no consequences?

They are detained.
They will get a hearing.
They will most likely be deported.

At a minimum, because there could also be incarceration or fines.

How are those NOT consequences?

They are. But apparently the existing set of these so-called consequences do not serve as a strong enough deterrent. Something more needs to be done.

Incarceration is insufficient because they will have gotten what they wanted from the country they came to illegally. Food and shelter. They get more than that if they flee to a sanctuary.

Fines are insufficient, what money are they going to pay them with?

Hearings serve little to no purpose when the party concerned fails to show up for it. Which also makes incarcerating and detaining them a moot point.

Detention serves little purpose when we allow them to skirt our immigration laws by fleeing to sanctuary cities.

Reporting them only means we get to see them cross our border again. Which just shows how little these people care about the existing consequences.

Despite all of this, they keep doing it, they keep breaking our laws. No, these are no longer are consequences. Just unfulfilled ultimatums. I get the feeling you want to maintain the status quo. Stay the course with consequences that these people are not afraid of.

Take their child away from them, and that will instill fear and compliance. That is a consequence they will pay attention to.

Immigration is down regardless.

But removing children from families as a punishment. That's a new low.

Alas we have come full circle. Most of these children come alone, without their parents. Where are their families? Too cowardly to face the hells they're putting their child through with them.

That's low. If there were a place lower than hell, that's where I would categorize this behavior.

Please spare me your emotional arguments.

 

[HappyJoy]

Yes, this is terrible. I think I know of a solution though: If you have children, STF away from our borders.

Then it clearly is not so terrible to you. It's a human cost you find WORTH IT.

They don't see them as human.

A human would go the the Port of Entry and present their immigrant visa that they obtained at the US Consulate in Mexico City.

A fucking animal crosses anywhere they can get away with it.

So yeah, there's that aspect.

An animal? Yep, you guys love to treat other humans as 'animals'.

BTW, it's not illegal to arrive at the border and present yourself as an asylum seeker, putz.

They can also do that at the US Consulate in Mexico City, dipshit. People who cross into the US illegally are no different than wild dogs.

I suppose, but why does it matter if it's legal either way?

Dipshit, seeking asylum at the border is not crossing it illegally.

And even those who do try to cross illegally, they aren't dogs, they are still people and should be treated as such, especially in our justice system it's what separates the United States from the likes of Cuba, China, Saudi Arabia and others.