What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[HappyJoy]

We are a nation of laws but we also can exercise discretion.

Interesting...

How much? How much discretion is required for it to be acceptable?

You say we're a nation of laws. Are we? Are we a nation of laws when we continually look for ways to circumvent them like we do with immigration? Like states and cities do with sanctuary laws?

Families don’t have to be housed in with serious offenders. Kids don’t have to be removed. We exercised this discretion before why not now?

That's like saying there should be no consequences for their coming here illegally. If they aren't going to obey our laws with one set of consequences, then another continuum of consequences must be set in place. The severity of the punishment must be enhanced.

What do you think would serve as a reliable and "humane" deterrent?

How is that saying there should be no consequences?

They are detained.
They will get a hearing.
They will most likely be deported.

At a minimum, because there could also be incarceration or fines.

How are those NOT consequences?

They are. But apparently the existing set of these so-called consequences do not serve as a strong enough deterrent. Something more needs to be done.

Incarceration is insufficient because they will have gotten what they wanted from the country they came to illegally. Food and shelter. They get more than that if they flee to a sanctuary.

Fines are insufficient, what money are they going to pay them with?

Hearings serve little to no purpose when the party concerned fails to show up for it. Which also makes incarcerating and detaining them a moot point.

Detention serves little purpose when we allow them to skirt our immigration laws by fleeing to sanctuary cities.

Reporting them only means we get to see them cross our border again. Which just shows how little these people care about the existing consequences.

Despite all of this, they keep doing it, they keep breaking our laws. No, these are no longer are consequences. Just unfulfilled ultimatums. I get the feeling you want to maintain the status quo. Stay the course with consequences that these people are not afraid of.

Take their child away from them, and that will instill fear and compliance. That is a consequence they will pay attention to.

Immigration is down regardless.

But removing children from families as a punishment. That's a new low.

Alas we have come full circle. Most of these children come alone, without their parents. Where are their families? Too cowardly to face the hells they're putting their child through with them.

Full circle? I think this entire conversation has been about families coming to the border together to include babies. You're literally changing the subject right now.

That's low. If there were a place lower than hell, that's where I would categorize this behavior.

That's not what we've been talking about at all. We can, but don't put words in my mouth that we are separating families for kids who come here independently of them. Dishonest to say the least.

Please spare me your emotional arguments.

Emotional would be having a hissy fit that a 12 year old girl can't stay with her mother/father or both while their status in this country is being decided. To use separating children from families as some sort of deterrence and ignoring the inhumanity of this action to me appears to be full of vindictive childishness.

 

[Taz]

Then your concession is duly noted. Thank you.

Wasn't there a troll on this board who used to reply to posts just like that? Can't remember his name but when he ran out of things to say he basically took credit for a concession that was never given.

What you have given is stating that you don't give a shit about families of immigrants who even come here legally to be separated and your reason for not caring which is an influx of unskilled workers isn't even a problem and in actuality we need more of them but you ignore all of that and go on your merry way.

Coming here illegally isn't coming here legally. Now you know.

Asylum seekers who are also being separated from their children are coming here legally. It shouldn't be done with any families but especially not those that are following the rules. Please keep up.

I don't consider all of Central America asylum seekers. Their counties are shit, that's not a legit reason.

Guess what, 'all of Central America' is not seeking asylum. Anyway, there is such a thing as economic asylum seekers, that you don't recognize that status exists means you need to read more.

Who is an asylum seeker, and who is a refugee?

As defined in Article 1(1)(a) of the 1951 Convention for Refugee Protection, a refugee is an individual who is fleeing his/her country of origin, owing to a well-founded fear of persecution on grounds of race, nationality, ethnicity, or affiliation to a particular political group. An asylum seeker is a person who has yet to make an application to the host country, or is awaiting a decision on an application or claim that has already been made or submitted. As with refugee law, under human rights law as well, (eg., Article 14 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights), every individual has a right to ask a State for asylum; however, there exists no duty on States to grant asylum, but only to consider fairly the claim for asylum made before them. While every asylum seeker might not become a refugee (if their claim is denied), every refugee at some point has been an asylum seeker (awaiting a refugee status determination).

Distinguishing Between Asylum Seekers and Economic Migrants: An Analysis of State Practice

We are legally obliged to consider all people seeking asylum. And they are people, not animals and should be treated as human but for whatever god damned reason you want asylum seekers to pay some sort of emotional price for their decision to better their lives from where they came from and to do it legally. Kind of fucked up on your part.

Go eat another fucking taco, you sweaty beaner, because you ain't getting all your friends and relatives in. Anchor babies or not.

 

[Taz]

Then your concession is duly noted. Thank you.

Wasn't there a troll on this board who used to reply to posts just like that? Can't remember his name but when he ran out of things to say he basically took credit for a concession that was never given.

What you have given is stating that you don't give a shit about families of immigrants who even come here legally to be separated and your reason for not caring which is an influx of unskilled workers isn't even a problem and in actuality we need more of them but you ignore all of that and go on your merry way.

Coming here illegally isn't coming here legally. Now you know.

Asylum seekers who are also being separated from their children are coming here legally. It shouldn't be done with any families but especially not those that are following the rules. Please keep up.

Oh well.

I'm sure Taz will be delighted to know that you and him are simpatico on this issue.

Si, senorita.

 

[HappyJoy]

Wasn't there a troll on this board who used to reply to posts just like that? Can't remember his name but when he ran out of things to say he basically took credit for a concession that was never given.

What you have given is stating that you don't give a shit about families of immigrants who even come here legally to be separated and your reason for not caring which is an influx of unskilled workers isn't even a problem and in actuality we need more of them but you ignore all of that and go on your merry way.

Coming here illegally isn't coming here legally. Now you know.

Asylum seekers who are also being separated from their children are coming here legally. It shouldn't be done with any families but especially not those that are following the rules. Please keep up.

I don't consider all of Central America asylum seekers. Their counties are shit, that's not a legit reason.

Guess what, 'all of Central America' is not seeking asylum. Anyway, there is such a thing as economic asylum seekers, that you don't recognize that status exists means you need to read more.

Who is an asylum seeker, and who is a refugee?

As defined in Article 1(1)(a) of the 1951 Convention for Refugee Protection, a refugee is an individual who is fleeing his/her country of origin, owing to a well-founded fear of persecution on grounds of race, nationality, ethnicity, or affiliation to a particular political group. An asylum seeker is a person who has yet to make an application to the host country, or is awaiting a decision on an application or claim that has already been made or submitted. As with refugee law, under human rights law as well, (eg., Article 14 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights), every individual has a right to ask a State for asylum; however, there exists no duty on States to grant asylum, but only to consider fairly the claim for asylum made before them. While every asylum seeker might not become a refugee (if their claim is denied), every refugee at some point has been an asylum seeker (awaiting a refugee status determination).

Distinguishing Between Asylum Seekers and Economic Migrants: An Analysis of State Practice

We are legally obliged to consider all people seeking asylum. And they are people, not animals and should be treated as human but for whatever god damned reason you want asylum seekers to pay some sort of emotional price for their decision to better their lives from where they came from and to do it legally. Kind of fucked up on your part.

Go eat another fucking taco, you sweaty beaner, because you ain't getting all your friends and relatives in. Anchor babies or not.

There we go, don't have an argument so you go full on wingnut.

 

[Taz]

Maybe obey our Laws and enter the Country legally? It's a thought.

I have no problem with that. I have no problem with a hearing and, if determined deportation.

Do you think it's necessary to inact this draconian policy in the meantime?

My understanding is that it would be inhumane to house small children in adult detention facilities with potential pedophiles or other serious criminals. Kind of makes sense doesn't? Would you want your 8 year old child housed in a maximum security prison with adult male inmates? My guess is probably not.

That is why kids are adults are separated. Plus...it is the Law. And we are a Nation of Laws or should be.

We are a nation of laws but we also can exercise discretion. Families don’t have to be housed in with serious offenders. Kids don’t have to be removed. We exercised this discretion before why not now?

Sorry....the law is the law. Under US law in this circumstance kids have to be removed to protect them when their adult parents have broken the law and you do not want to house kids in adult correctional facilities. And yeah....their parents broke the law so they have to go in correctional facilities just like the rest of us when we break the law.

Kind of easy to understand in my opinion. Slave owners exercised "discretion" in violation of US Law. It doesn't make it right. Either we are a Nation of Laws or we are not. It really could not be more simple. You cannot pick and choose the Laws you like versus the ones you do not.

Jaywalking is against the law. So is parking in no parking areas. Should their kids be removed? Should they be put into correctional institutions? Why aren’t they?

If they are illegals jaywalking, then yes they would be. See how that works?

 

[HappyJoy]

Wasn't there a troll on this board who used to reply to posts just like that? Can't remember his name but when he ran out of things to say he basically took credit for a concession that was never given.

What you have given is stating that you don't give a shit about families of immigrants who even come here legally to be separated and your reason for not caring which is an influx of unskilled workers isn't even a problem and in actuality we need more of them but you ignore all of that and go on your merry way.

Coming here illegally isn't coming here legally. Now you know.

Asylum seekers who are also being separated from their children are coming here legally. It shouldn't be done with any families but especially not those that are following the rules. Please keep up.

Oh well.

I'm sure Taz will be delighted to know that you and him are simpatico on this issue.

Si, senorita.

I'm sure it makes you happy.

 

[Taz]

Coming here illegally isn't coming here legally. Now you know.

Asylum seekers who are also being separated from their children are coming here legally. It shouldn't be done with any families but especially not those that are following the rules. Please keep up.

I don't consider all of Central America asylum seekers. Their counties are shit, that's not a legit reason.

Guess what, 'all of Central America' is not seeking asylum. Anyway, there is such a thing as economic asylum seekers, that you don't recognize that status exists means you need to read more.

Who is an asylum seeker, and who is a refugee?

As defined in Article 1(1)(a) of the 1951 Convention for Refugee Protection, a refugee is an individual who is fleeing his/her country of origin, owing to a well-founded fear of persecution on grounds of race, nationality, ethnicity, or affiliation to a particular political group. An asylum seeker is a person who has yet to make an application to the host country, or is awaiting a decision on an application or claim that has already been made or submitted. As with refugee law, under human rights law as well, (eg., Article 14 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights), every individual has a right to ask a State for asylum; however, there exists no duty on States to grant asylum, but only to consider fairly the claim for asylum made before them. While every asylum seeker might not become a refugee (if their claim is denied), every refugee at some point has been an asylum seeker (awaiting a refugee status determination).

Distinguishing Between Asylum Seekers and Economic Migrants: An Analysis of State Practice

We are legally obliged to consider all people seeking asylum. And they are people, not animals and should be treated as human but for whatever god damned reason you want asylum seekers to pay some sort of emotional price for their decision to better their lives from where they came from and to do it legally. Kind of fucked up on your part.

Go eat another fucking taco, you sweaty beaner, because you ain't getting all your friends and relatives in. Anchor babies or not.

There we go, don't have an argument so you go full on wingnut.

No, the argument against letting Central America rape us is still valid. Now go make me some tequila.

 

[Cosmos]

Then it clearly is not so terrible to you. It's a human cost you find WORTH IT.

They don't see them as human.

A human would go the the Port of Entry and present their immigrant visa that they obtained at the US Consulate in Mexico City.

A fucking animal crosses anywhere they can get away with it.

So yeah, there's that aspect.

An animal? Yep, you guys love to treat other humans as 'animals'.

BTW, it's not illegal to arrive at the border and present yourself as an asylum seeker, putz.

They can also do that at the US Consulate in Mexico City, dipshit. People who cross into the US illegally are no different than wild dogs.

I suppose, but why does it matter if it's legal either way?

Dipshit, seeking asylum at the border is not crossing it illegally.

And even those who do try to cross illegally, they aren't dogs, they are still people and should be treated as such, especially in our justice system it's what separates the United States from the likes of Cuba, China, Saudi Arabia and others.

They are not people. They are goddamn animals. If they were people they would respect borders and laws. They would obtain the proper legal paperwork and go to a legal Port of Entry where they would ask for permission to enter our country. They are fucking animals that pay no attention to such things. I don't know what the purpose is of the radical fascist leftist in this country who are trying to undermine our borders, but it can't be good. Maybe you can tell us.

 

[HappyJoy]

Asylum seekers who are also being separated from their children are coming here legally. It shouldn't be done with any families but especially not those that are following the rules. Please keep up.

I don't consider all of Central America asylum seekers. Their counties are shit, that's not a legit reason.

Guess what, 'all of Central America' is not seeking asylum. Anyway, there is such a thing as economic asylum seekers, that you don't recognize that status exists means you need to read more.

Who is an asylum seeker, and who is a refugee?

As defined in Article 1(1)(a) of the 1951 Convention for Refugee Protection, a refugee is an individual who is fleeing his/her country of origin, owing to a well-founded fear of persecution on grounds of race, nationality, ethnicity, or affiliation to a particular political group. An asylum seeker is a person who has yet to make an application to the host country, or is awaiting a decision on an application or claim that has already been made or submitted. As with refugee law, under human rights law as well, (eg., Article 14 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights), every individual has a right to ask a State for asylum; however, there exists no duty on States to grant asylum, but only to consider fairly the claim for asylum made before them. While every asylum seeker might not become a refugee (if their claim is denied), every refugee at some point has been an asylum seeker (awaiting a refugee status determination).

Distinguishing Between Asylum Seekers and Economic Migrants: An Analysis of State Practice

We are legally obliged to consider all people seeking asylum. And they are people, not animals and should be treated as human but for whatever god damned reason you want asylum seekers to pay some sort of emotional price for their decision to better their lives from where they came from and to do it legally. Kind of fucked up on your part.

Go eat another fucking taco, you sweaty beaner, because you ain't getting all your friends and relatives in. Anchor babies or not.

There we go, don't have an argument so you go full on wingnut.

No, the argument against letting Central America rape us is still valid. Now go make me some tequila.

Central America isn't raping us, not sure why you're having that fantasy. That is one of the dumbest statements I've ever heard.

Actually, we've done our share of harm to the region to include supporting dictators and right wing death squads.

 

[HappyJoy]

Asylum seekers who are also being separated from their children are coming here legally. It shouldn't be done with any families but especially not those that are following the rules. Please keep up.

Oh well.

I'm sure Taz will be delighted to know that you and him are simpatico on this issue.

Si, senorita.

I'm sure it makes you happy.

Better than having a Chico lover agree with me.

What did you call me? Chico is boy in Spanish, you're a mod, what the fuck is wrong with you?

EDIT: You're not a mod, I had you confused with someone who uses 'Taz' in their name, I'm glad to see that he hasn't lost his god damned mind and is an entirely different person than you.

 

[HappyJoy]

They are not people. They are goddamn animals.

I think Taz agrees with you.

 

[Cosmos]

They are not people. They are goddamn animals.

Taz agrees with you.

That's nice but I prefer when people speak for themselves. I ask you again, why does the radical left that's taken over the Democrat party want to flood our country with illegal aliens? Who's pulling their strings and buying off their leadership? Why are Democrat voters being ignorant complacent accomplices in this?

 

[koshergrl]

Coming here illegally isn't coming here legally. Now you know.

Asylum seekers who are also being separated from their children are coming here legally. It shouldn't be done with any families but especially not those that are following the rules. Please keep up.

Oh well.

I'm sure Taz will be delighted to know that you and him are simpatico on this issue.

There's a reason for separating the kids. The people trying to smuggle them in know that is what they are facing. For the most part, these are not safe people to leave children with..they tend not to really care what happens to them.

And the ones who are stellar wonderful parents who aren't traffickers or gang members or wanted for a crime somewhere..they will be reunited with their kids later. They knew that, they chose this route.

There are thousands of kids involved...kids do get lost in the system. It is not designed to handle this kind of load. I guarantee kids will get lost.

Then your messiah shouldn't have invited *this kind of load* to our border, with your fucking blessing.

Yes there are thousands of kids involved. The ones that were lost aren't babies..those are *kids* that are the so-called *dreamers*...in reality hard eyed gang members, communists, mules, and criminals.

 

[koshergrl]

They are not people. They are goddamn animals.

I think Taz agrees with you.

When did it become your job to comment "I think Taz agrees with you" every ten minutes?
wtf?
You people really are nuts.

 

[HappyJoy]

Asylum seekers who are also being separated from their children are coming here legally. It shouldn't be done with any families but especially not those that are following the rules. Please keep up.

Oh well.

I'm sure Taz will be delighted to know that you and him are simpatico on this issue.

There's a reason for separating the kids. The people trying to smuggle them in know that is what they are facing. For the most part, these are not safe people to leave children with..they tend not to really care what happens to them.

And the ones who are stellar wonderful parents who aren't traffickers or gang members or wanted for a crime somewhere..they will be reunited with their kids later. They knew that, they chose this route.

There are thousands of kids involved...kids do get lost in the system. It is not designed to handle this kind of load. I guarantee kids will get lost.

Then your messiah shouldn't have invited *this kind of load* to our border, with your fucking blessing.

Don't have a messiah and immigration has been down, it's also more than a year since Obama has been president.

Yes there are thousands of kids involved. The ones that were lost aren't babies..those are *kids* that are the so-called *dreamers*...in reality hard eyed gang members, communists, mules, and criminals.

No, these aren't dreamers, these are kids with families who are either caught at the border crossing illegally or declaring themselves as asylum seekers.

 

[HappyJoy]

They are not people. They are goddamn animals.

I think Taz agrees with you.

When did it become your job to comment "I think Taz agrees with you" every ten minutes?
wtf?
You people really are nuts.

You haven't figured it out? I'm demonstrating how ridiculous his statements are and using you as a barometer. I thought it was pretty obvious.

 

[koshergrl]

Oh well.

I'm sure Taz will be delighted to know that you and him are simpatico on this issue.

There's a reason for separating the kids. The people trying to smuggle them in know that is what they are facing. For the most part, these are not safe people to leave children with..they tend not to really care what happens to them.

And the ones who are stellar wonderful parents who aren't traffickers or gang members or wanted for a crime somewhere..they will be reunited with their kids later. They knew that, they chose this route.

There are thousands of kids involved...kids do get lost in the system. It is not designed to handle this kind of load. I guarantee kids will get lost.

Then your messiah shouldn't have invited *this kind of load* to our border, with your fucking blessing.

Don't have a messiah and immigration has been down, it's also more than a year since Obama has been president.

Yes there are thousands of kids involved. The ones that were lost aren't babies..those are *kids* that are the so-called *dreamers*...in reality hard eyed gang members, communists, mules, and criminals.

No, these aren't dreamers, these are kids with families who are either caught at the border crossing illegally or declaring themselves as asylum seekers.

I wasn't talking to you, retard.

And yes, they're dreamers. Teens who are either criminals, or victims of traffickers. They were given a pass into the country as *unaccompanied children* then promptly disappeared because they weren't CHILDREN they were fucking drug and human traffickers, and their fucking cattle. The people you imbeciles cater to, while refusing to acknowledge the reality of who they are...thus making the world a much more dangerous place for our children.

My theory is that you swine defend human traffickers because you somehow benefit from the sex and/or drug trade.

 

[HappyJoy]

I'm sure Taz will be delighted to know that you and him are simpatico on this issue.

There's a reason for separating the kids. The people trying to smuggle them in know that is what they are facing. For the most part, these are not safe people to leave children with..they tend not to really care what happens to them.

And the ones who are stellar wonderful parents who aren't traffickers or gang members or wanted for a crime somewhere..they will be reunited with their kids later. They knew that, they chose this route.

There are thousands of kids involved...kids do get lost in the system. It is not designed to handle this kind of load. I guarantee kids will get lost.

Then your messiah shouldn't have invited *this kind of load* to our border, with your fucking blessing.

Don't have a messiah and immigration has been down, it's also more than a year since Obama has been president.

Yes there are thousands of kids involved. The ones that were lost aren't babies..those are *kids* that are the so-called *dreamers*...in reality hard eyed gang members, communists, mules, and criminals.

No, these aren't dreamers, these are kids with families who are either caught at the border crossing illegally or declaring themselves as asylum seekers.

I wasn't talking to you, retard.

Then you should private message Coyote. You know how forums work, right?

And yes, they're dreamers. Teens who are either criminals, or victims of traffickers.

Yeah, I didn't think you knew who DACA recipients were.

 

[koshergrl]

Oh well.

I'm sure Taz will be delighted to know that you and him are simpatico on this issue.

Si, senorita.

I'm sure it makes you happy.

Better than having a Chico lover agree with me.

What did you call me? Chico is boy in Spanish, you're a mod, what the fuck is wrong with you?

EDIT: You're not a mod, I had you confused with someone who uses 'Taz' in their name, I'm glad to see that he hasn't lost his god damned mind and is an entirely different person than you.

You are a fucking retard.

Seriously.

 

[HappyJoy]

I'm sure Taz will be delighted to know that you and him are simpatico on this issue.

Si, senorita.

I'm sure it makes you happy.

Better than having a Chico lover agree with me.

What did you call me? Chico is boy in Spanish, you're a mod, what the fuck is wrong with you?

EDIT: You're not a mod, I had you confused with someone who uses 'Taz' in their name, I'm glad to see that he hasn't lost his god damned mind and is an entirely different person than you.

You are a fucking retard.

Seriously.

You've never admitted a mistake before, have you?