What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[kaz]

Winston Churchill: I can explain it to you, I cannot comprehend it for you

Guy, you can explain it all day...

The reality is, companies that don't offer health insurance don't get the best employees...

Do you know what my number three source of resume clients is after shitty managers and downsizings? It's companies that don't offer insurance and they want to find a job that does.

So your bull shit aside, what's your second job?

 

[Flopper]

Trump is proposing cutting legal immigration.

Republicans balk at Trump’s cuts to legal immigration

Trump says one thing today and does the opposite tomorrow. A year or so ago he was supporting a plan to cut immigration in half.
Trump Supports Plan to Cut Legal Immigration by Half

/——/
There has to be limits to any immigration. The illegals are taking spots from the legals.

There is. The body of law governing current immigration policy, provides for an annual worldwide limit of 675,000 permanent immigrants, with certain exceptions for close family members. I don't think Trump is messing with that number. It is .2% of the population, way too small.

And we have almost 2 million illegal aliens combining border crossers with VISA overstays, WAY too large.

Once we get that under control, we can increase legal immigration.

Every action you take is about getting more Democrat votes on the voter rolls. Not one action you're taking costs the Democrats a vote. Your motive is clear

If you want a Visa in this country, you should have to make a down payment, say 2K or so. If you don't turn it in and leave the country, you lose your deposit. Plus if it's a work Visa, we keep 10% of your net pay in escrow for the same reason.

Ray, that sounds like a great way to increase Mexican and Central American exports of produce to the US. Charge foreign workers $2,000 to get a work permit would turn a labor shortage into a disaster.

 

[Unkotare]

The Know-Nothing party is gone. Let it go or join it in the dustbin.

They're gone? .....

Yes, they are gone. The Know-Nothing Party was defunct by 1860. Even then real Americans recognized that they were idiots and cowards not worth the attention. Every few decades a new crop of mentally defective weaklings like you start whining about the exact process by which their own ancestors came to America. Pretty stupid, really.

You know how my ancestors came here? Please tell me, because I don't even know that. However they came, I'm sure it wasn't illegally like what's going on today.

If you don't know then you can't be sure, so STFU while the same process continues as it always has.

I'll say WTF I want to say. And I say these people are nothing but problems for Americans. .....

Like your ancestors were when they came? There were certainly some dumbasses here bitching and moaning just like you are now about how your ancestors were nothing but problems for Americans. No doubt some dumbass great, great grandchildren of people immigrating today will do the same cowardly, irrational, unAmerican shit you are doing today. The weakest of the herd never learn.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

They're gone? .....

Yes, they are gone. The Know-Nothing Party was defunct by 1860. Even then real Americans recognized that they were idiots and cowards not worth the attention. Every few decades a new crop of mentally defective weaklings like you start whining about the exact process by which their own ancestors came to America. Pretty stupid, really.

You know how my ancestors came here? Please tell me, because I don't even know that. However they came, I'm sure it wasn't illegally like what's going on today.

If you don't know then you can't be sure, so STFU while the same process continues as it always has.

I'll say WTF I want to say. And I say these people are nothing but problems for Americans. .....

Like your ancestors were when they came? There were certainly some dumbasses here bitching and moaning just like you are now about how your ancestors were nothing but problems for Americans. No doubt some dumbass great, great grandchildren of people immigrating today will do the same cowardly, irrational, unAmerican shit you are doing today. The weakest of the herd never learn.

In this country, we are all allowed to have opinions.....so far.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Trump says one thing today and does the opposite tomorrow. A year or so ago he was supporting a plan to cut immigration in half.
Trump Supports Plan to Cut Legal Immigration by Half

/——/
There has to be limits to any immigration. The illegals are taking spots from the legals.

There is. The body of law governing current immigration policy, provides for an annual worldwide limit of 675,000 permanent immigrants, with certain exceptions for close family members. I don't think Trump is messing with that number. It is .2% of the population, way too small.

And we have almost 2 million illegal aliens combining border crossers with VISA overstays, WAY too large.

Once we get that under control, we can increase legal immigration.

Every action you take is about getting more Democrat votes on the voter rolls. Not one action you're taking costs the Democrats a vote. Your motive is clear

If you want a Visa in this country, you should have to make a down payment, say 2K or so. If you don't turn it in and leave the country, you lose your deposit. Plus if it's a work Visa, we keep 10% of your net pay in escrow for the same reason.

Ray, that sounds like a great way to increase Mexican and Central American exports of produce to the US. Charge foreign workers $2,000 to get a work permit would turn a labor shortage into a disaster.

Why is that? If you turn in your Visa on time and leave the country when you are supposed to, you get that $2,000 back just like when you rent a car or an apartment. If not, we will use that money to track you or another like you down and have you deported.

 

[Flopper]

/——/ Total made up bullshyt. We aren’t against legal immigration. It’s the Progs who want to flood the country with future democRAT voters that’s the issue. You’re just trying to refute our demand to enforce our laws by claiming we’re against all immigrants. Total bullshyt Strawman argument.

Trump is proposing cutting legal immigration.

Republicans balk at Trump’s cuts to legal immigration

Trump says one thing today and does the opposite tomorrow. A year or so ago he was supporting a plan to cut immigration in half.
Trump Supports Plan to Cut Legal Immigration by Half

/——/
There has to be limits to any immigration. The illegals are taking spots from the legals.

There is. The body of law governing current immigration policy, provides for an annual worldwide limit of 675,000 permanent immigrants, with certain exceptions for close family members. I don't think Trump is messing with that number. It is .2% of the population, way too small.

And we have almost 2 million illegal aliens combining border crossers with VISA overstays, WAY too large.

Once we get that under control, we can increase legal immigration.

Every action you take is about getting more Democrat votes on the voter rolls. Not one action you're taking costs the Democrats a vote. Your motive is clear

What a shocking revaluation. Democrats don't have to say or do anything to attract Hispanic voters. Donald Trump does it all. He calls them rapist and murders. Says migrants come from shit hole countries. Blames our drug problems on Mexico. Wants to make Mexico pay the cost of defending our border with a wall. Wants to make it impossible for them to bring their families to the US. And he hovers over a taco salad proclaiming, "I love Hispanics."

 

[Cellblock2429]

Well the left feels this kind of thing has never happened before---only with Trump.

The changes taking place because of foreigners is obvious. It's time to stop migration until at least everybody can speak and read the language here.

The Know-Nothing party is gone. Let it go or join it in the dustbin.

They're gone? .....

Yes, they are gone. The Know-Nothing Party was defunct by 1860. Even then real Americans recognized that they were idiots and cowards not worth the attention. Every few decades a new crop of mentally defective weaklings like you start whining about the exact process by which their own ancestors came to America. Pretty stupid, really.

You know how my ancestors came here? Please tell me, because I don't even know that. However they came, I'm sure it wasn't illegally like what's going on today.

If you don't know then you can't be sure, so STFU while the same process continues as it always has.

/——/ According to Ancestry, my family began arriving in Charles Town around 1726. I even know the names of some of the ships they came over on. So they were all legal.

 

[Cellblock2429]

Trump is proposing cutting legal immigration.

Republicans balk at Trump’s cuts to legal immigration

Trump says one thing today and does the opposite tomorrow. A year or so ago he was supporting a plan to cut immigration in half.
Trump Supports Plan to Cut Legal Immigration by Half

/——/
There has to be limits to any immigration. The illegals are taking spots from the legals.

There is. The body of law governing current immigration policy, provides for an annual worldwide limit of 675,000 permanent immigrants, with certain exceptions for close family members. I don't think Trump is messing with that number. It is .2% of the population, way too small.

And we have almost 2 million illegal aliens combining border crossers with VISA overstays, WAY too large.

Once we get that under control, we can increase legal immigration.

Every action you take is about getting more Democrat votes on the voter rolls. Not one action you're taking costs the Democrats a vote. Your motive is clear

What a shocking revaluation. Democrats don't have to say or do anything to attract Hispanic voters. Donald Trump does it all. He calls them rapist and murders. Says migrants come from shit hole countries. Blames our drug problems on Mexico. Wants to make Mexico pay the cost of defending our border with a wall. Wants to make it impossible for them to bring their families to the US. And he hovers over a taco salad proclaiming, "I love Hispanics."

/——/ One has nothing to do with the other. Maybe if you loved Americans you’d support a strong border.

 

[Unkotare]

The Know-Nothing party is gone. Let it go or join it in the dustbin.

They're gone? .....

Yes, they are gone. The Know-Nothing Party was defunct by 1860. Even then real Americans recognized that they were idiots and cowards not worth the attention. Every few decades a new crop of mentally defective weaklings like you start whining about the exact process by which their own ancestors came to America. Pretty stupid, really.

You know how my ancestors came here? Please tell me, because I don't even know that. However they came, I'm sure it wasn't illegally like what's going on today.

If you don't know then you can't be sure, so STFU while the same process continues as it always has.

/——/ According to Ancestry, my family began arriving in Charles Town around 1726. I even know the names of some of the ships they came over on. So they were all legal.

You were thinking maybe Charlestown?

 

[Ame®icano]

No it's not.

You wishing it's a racial slur doesn't make it one. It's a derisive term which refers to Mexicans, and it's based on country of origin.

By the way, since you mentioned, what skin color Mexicans have, please?

Now that is funny…

Yeah…someone like you who calls people “beaners” as a sign of affection makes a distinction between Mexicans and other latinos. Riiiight.

Someone like me?
Nope, I did not call anyone a beaner, I joined the conversation to explain to you that beaner is not a racial slur.
Now, since you do know the distinction, why don't you answer the question: What skin color Mexicans have?
Or you gonna act dumb and dodge it again...

Have you/will you gone/go into a chicano bar and called the bartender a beaner and shown how much you love the race?

Are you going to dodge the question or answer it?

I recall I asked you question several times that you did provided answer to.

You don't get to ask me anything until you do so. Capisce?

Cmon...beaner is a term of endearment right?

Sack up, find some manhood and call a Mexican a beaner to his face. Then get ready for a nice warm hug.....

Kinda, just as they call us "burgers". It's not a racist term.

BTW, when will you answer the freaking question?

Oh, you're leftist loser, and you don't do that.

 

[Cellblock2429]

They're gone? .....

Yes, they are gone. The Know-Nothing Party was defunct by 1860. Even then real Americans recognized that they were idiots and cowards not worth the attention. Every few decades a new crop of mentally defective weaklings like you start whining about the exact process by which their own ancestors came to America. Pretty stupid, really.

You know how my ancestors came here? Please tell me, because I don't even know that. However they came, I'm sure it wasn't illegally like what's going on today.

If you don't know then you can't be sure, so STFU while the same process continues as it always has.

/——/ According to Ancestry, my family began arriving in Charles Town around 1726. I even know the names of some of the ships they came over on. So they were all legal.

You were thinking maybe Charlestown?

/——/ No. Charleston was founded in 1670 as Charles Town, honoring King Charles II of England. Its initial location at Albemarle Point on the west bank of the Ashley River (now Charles Towne Landing) was abandoned in 1680 for its present site, which became the fifth-largest city in North America within ten years.

 

[Flopper]

/——/
There has to be limits to any immigration. The illegals are taking spots from the legals.

There is. The body of law governing current immigration policy, provides for an annual worldwide limit of 675,000 permanent immigrants, with certain exceptions for close family members. I don't think Trump is messing with that number. It is .2% of the population, way too small.

And we have almost 2 million illegal aliens combining border crossers with VISA overstays, WAY too large.

Once we get that under control, we can increase legal immigration.

Every action you take is about getting more Democrat votes on the voter rolls. Not one action you're taking costs the Democrats a vote. Your motive is clear

If you want a Visa in this country, you should have to make a down payment, say 2K or so. If you don't turn it in and leave the country, you lose your deposit. Plus if it's a work Visa, we keep 10% of your net pay in escrow for the same reason.

Ray, that sounds like a great way to increase Mexican and Central American exports of produce to the US. Charge foreign workers $2,000 to get a work permit would turn a labor shortage into a disaster.

Why is that? If you turn in your Visa on time and leave the country when you are supposed to, you get that $2,000 back just like when you rent a car or an apartment. If not, we will use that money to track you or another like you down and have you deported.

U.S. and Mexican farmers are increasingly competing for a dwindling supply of farm labor.

What you are neglecting is if poor farm workers can afford to pay $2000 a person to come to the US to work, they would probably stay in Mexico. $8,000 for a family of 4 to come to the US to pick fruit is not gonna happen.

BTW, H1-B visas for high tech workers cost $4,000.

 

[Ame®icano]

Can someone direct me to the thread about us leaving the UN Humane bullshit group and pulling all financing for them.
You know there is other news out there.
Mass murder in NJ.
IG report that the FBI is full of Hillary lovers and biased against Trump.
10 FBI agents suspended or fired yesterday.

Interesting, IG report came out, and I haven't heard word "collusion" since then.

 

[Ame®icano]

Jeff Sessions and Donald Trump:

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Monday at a law enforcement conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. "If you don't like that, then don't smuggle children over our border."

Administration officials explained that the goal of the program is 100 percent prosecution of all who enter the U.S. illegally. When adults are prosecuted and jailed, their children will be separated from them, just as would happen for a U.S. citizen convicted and jailed.​

Anguish at Southwest border as more immigrant children are separated from parents

The Trump administration's willingness to take children from their parents has raised concerns about how far authorities should go to stem unauthorized border crossings and what human cost is acceptable in the name of border security and immigration control.

"There is something terrible happening here that Americans would not support if they understood it," said F. Scott McCown, director of the Children’s Rights Clinic at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law.​

I don't care how much you hate illegal immigrants this is EVIL. You are punishing the children. It's abhorrant and wrong and inexcusable. I hope they rot in hell for this. 700 children so far have been seperated from the only family they know and lost to our often incompetent and mismanaged child care system. I fail to see how any parent could support actions like these.

When parents are held for prosecution, their children are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, part of the Department of Health and Human Services. The children are then designated as "unaccompanied minors," and the government tries to connect them to family members who are already in the U.S. Until then, children wait in shelters or are sent to federally contracted foster homes, often without parents being told exactly where they are, immigration advocates said.

It may soon become even more difficult to place children with relatives. The Department of Homeland Security is proposing immigration checks be done on all people in a household who may take in these "unaccompanied" children, which means relatives who are undocumented may be less likely to come forward.

In the meantime, space in shelters and foster homes is limited; The Washington Post reported the administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.​

/——/ Libtards seething with rage as they lose yet another talking point:
Trump says he's going to sign a 'preemptive' measure to keep migrant families together

Great, kick them out together.

 

[Ame®icano]

And the same thugs would think nothing of abducting a child and crossing our border with them.

Think about that

Immigration officials are required to interview all detainees regardless of age. Do you really think kidnap victims are not going to speak up?

These families came seeking asylum. You can not apply for asylum with out complete documentation of all family members.
Think about that.

Poor children from third world countries who are being abused and threatened and told the American will kill them? Of course they could lie. And you're saying keep them in the abuser's hands to keep doing that

I'm saying you don't presume that a family is human traffickers and victims without evidence any more than you would presume that a man carrying a briefcase walking out of a bank is a bank robber.

When you stop a criminal at the border who has a kid that isn't his with him...you think that we should allow the kid to stay with that criminal in jail?

Because that's what you fools are advocating.

A person stopped at the boarder, is not a criminal until he or she crosses the border and a court of law declares him guilty of improper entry, a criminal misdemeanor. Accompanying children are not assumed to be victims of human trafficking without any evidence. This is called due process, a concept you may find strange.

Person crossing the border anywhere but the "point of entry" is breaking a law and is a criminal.

Due process is a constitutional right for all Americans. Foreigners do not have our constitutional rights.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

There is. The body of law governing current immigration policy, provides for an annual worldwide limit of 675,000 permanent immigrants, with certain exceptions for close family members. I don't think Trump is messing with that number. It is .2% of the population, way too small.

And we have almost 2 million illegal aliens combining border crossers with VISA overstays, WAY too large.

Once we get that under control, we can increase legal immigration.

Every action you take is about getting more Democrat votes on the voter rolls. Not one action you're taking costs the Democrats a vote. Your motive is clear

If you want a Visa in this country, you should have to make a down payment, say 2K or so. If you don't turn it in and leave the country, you lose your deposit. Plus if it's a work Visa, we keep 10% of your net pay in escrow for the same reason.

Ray, that sounds like a great way to increase Mexican and Central American exports of produce to the US. Charge foreign workers $2,000 to get a work permit would turn a labor shortage into a disaster.

Why is that? If you turn in your Visa on time and leave the country when you are supposed to, you get that $2,000 back just like when you rent a car or an apartment. If not, we will use that money to track you or another like you down and have you deported.

U.S. and Mexican farmers are increasingly competing for a dwindling supply of farm labor.

What you are neglecting is if poor farm workers can afford to pay $2000 a person to come to the US to work, they would probably stay in Mexico. $8,000 for a family of 4 to come to the US to pick fruit is not gonna happen.

BTW, H1-B visas for high tech workers cost $4,000.

Well then let them stay in Mexico. Problem solved. Farming is becoming more automated as time moves on just like any other industry. And if it becomes mostly automated, the Democrats will still find excuses to let these people in because what they really want is to make whites a minority for the first time in our history. It has nothing to do with vegetables of fruit. A Democrat politician never does anything without there being an ulterior motive that benefits them.

 

[Ame®icano]

Lots of good information but the fact remains there is no law that requires Trump to separate the kids from their parents at the border. This is policy which can be changed at the discretion of the president. Claiming the law made me do it is just bullshit. He clearly feels separating the kids from the parents is a determent so why doesn't he admit it. I'm sure most of his supporters would agree.

If you say so. Was there a law to separate kids from parents while Barry was president? Was there law like that while Dubya was president? Both of them were doing it, but only now it's somehow not acceptable.

Policy hasn't changed, laws neither. Border patrol and DHS are doing their jobs by the book, and if Congress doesn't like the law, than they should change the law.

Changing the law to prevent the separation of families during detention means taking the option away from the administration to separate families. I doubt that congress had ever imagined a president would use children as a pawn to expedite deportation. Previous administration have separated families when family detention centers were full and when officials felt families should be separated to protect the children.

You said earlier that there is no legal requirements of separating families. Why was Barry doing it then? Families used to be detained together, but guess what, Barry was separating them and he built detention centers that you've seen pictures from, but lefties didn't seem to care about the issue at all.

As it turns out, separating the families is not just a policy that previous admin was practicing and current one inherited and continued, but it's actually a law that is followed thru the court order, and by signing EO to stop separating families, Trump is actually ignoring that court order. In other words, lefties lied again in order to get what they want.

I understand why he signed that EO, because of the grotesque demagogues and hypocrites in Democrat party and leftist media who insisted that he must do it. The question for you lefties is this: Are you happy with Trumps EO?

Note: the court order I mentioned above says that minors cannot be detained for more than 20 days. It doesn't matter if they're with their parents or not.

 

[Flopper]

You mean because there are only white citizens in this country, race baiting dickhead. And you really are a douche. He's talking about the ability to function here in English. Not making them deny their heritage.

Except he didn't say "ability to speak English", he said "assimilate".

Hey, maybe we should eliminate St. Paddy's Day, Oktoberfest, Columbus Day and the Polish Parade here in Chicago because, hey, those people need to "assimilate", right?

If you can't speak or read English, guess what? You're not assimilating very well. If the country has to accommodate you for that reason, you are not assimilating very well. If you are a NYC cab driver, and refuse to pick up fares because they have a pet with them due to your religion, you are not assimilating very well.

Most legal immigrants to US are speaking English in a year, however like most people they are more comfortable speaking their native tongue. It is natural to assume two people speaking Spanish are doing so because they don't speak English but that is often not the case.

Assimilation means adapting and adjusting to a culture. It does not mean changing your culture. An immigrant who's Hispanic, Russian, Italian, etc will carry their culture with them through out their lives. They may become Americans but their ethnicity will not change. Their children born in America will carry with them their American culture.

 

[Ame®icano]

Jay walking is a minor crime, so is crossing the border, especially with the intent of turning themselves in. I'm sorry, you're argument still sucks and at least you stopped making it (hopefully).

Of course you consider it a minor crime. You want it to happen.

No, I don't want illegal immigration, however I do want more legal immigration and I want the United States to help these refugees.

The more Democrat voters the better. You want to award prizes for coming here illegally. I mean literal prizes. Welfare, free education, free medical care. We'll house Mexico's prison population for them. It's not a minor crime for you at all, it's a major victory!

No, none of this is true.

Just the same, crossing the border is not a major crime. Unless you're a hysterical xenophobe of course.

Right, and that's been the Republican position. Cut illegal immigration THEN increase legal. How do we increase legal immigration when we're importing 1.8 million illegals a year between border crossings and visa overstays?

And if we did that, would you support actually stopping illegals with real means like walls and jail sentences? Of course not

Illegal immigration has already been cut, it's been low for quite some time and those that get caught are usually deported. So, now it's time to open up legal immigration and no, I don't believe in walls and don't see much of a point in holding those caught for a first time in our jails, deport them.

Yes, illegal immigration has been decreasing ever since Mexico recovered from the recession and border security was increased. In 2000, there was an estimated 1 million people attempted to cross the our southern border, 700,000 in 2006. In 2016, there were 170,000 arrested at the border and ICE estimates that they're stopping more than 50% attempting to cross.

This trend makes it really tough for Trump because he just doesn't have enough illegal crossings to match deportation figures of previous presidents, even by using expedited deportation, trial in criminal court, and separating families. It also makes his wall across the southern boarder less important.

At some point Trump is going to have to concentrate on interior arrests, more that 50 miles from the boarder. This is where most illegal immigrants live, those that did not enter the country illegally. It's also where most long term immigrants are found and where expedited deportation can't be use and undocumented immigrants must be heard in immigration court not criminal court.

More lies from the left. Since DACA, and Barry's "catch and release" policy (that is not lawful) number of families crossing the border jumped over 300%.

Nobody's asking Trump to match deportation numbers from previous admins, he is asked to enforce current laws, protect our borders, stop the illegal entry into the country and kick out illegals out of the country, with priority on gangs and repeated criminals.

And again, there is no such thing as "illegal immigrant" and repeating the term is not going to make it legit. Immigrants are those who are here legally and have legal status in the US. Those you're thinking about are not that, they are just illegal aliens.

 

[Unkotare]

..... Foreigners do not have our constitutional rights.

They do when they are in our jurisdiction.