What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[Flopper]

Okay, but the reason for that is is not because they want to "Wipe out White People", but because after Nixon and the Southern Strategy, the GOP decided that they were going to play on Whit

Actually, the agencies aren't saying that at all.

https://gizmodo.com/us-border-patrol-doesnt-want-a-wall-they-want-drones-an-1773661854

Even the conservative Cato Institute says a wall won't work.

Why the Wall Won't Work

Are you serious? Gizmodo for your evidence? Here, try a real source:

Border Patrol agents back Trump wall, survey finds

Your survey says they want a wall in strategic locations.

And????????

Meaning we do not need a wall across the country, only in strategic locations. We already have over 700 miles of reinforced fencing and areas that terrain is so bad, or border patrol presence is so large, or other factors that we have few crossings.

Trump even said only in strategic locations. Now that we have this problem with people using asylum to get in, we need it more than ever now. As for the older borders, those need to be torn down and rebuilt using the latest technology.

e insecurities...

This is as obvious as the nose on your face. Why would the Democrats be so hell bent on stopping the wall they would even shutdown the government for it? Why did they stop Kate's Law; a law that would have imprisoned foreign felons who returned after deportation? Why would they be fighting like hell to keep their sanctuary cities?

There is only one reason for this, because it sure as hell doesn't benefit this country--it benefits the Democrat party.

They can't tell you their real reasons, but then again, when are they ever honest with their constituents?

Oh, noes, we might actually be able to get you health insurance, and that would be awful!!! Here's the thing, if Capitalism weren't such a shit sandwich for those of us who do the work, then the GOP wouldn't need racism to sell it.

When did the Republicans ever use racism to sell capitalism? Have any examples? We've been a capitalist society for many years Joe. It's not a new concept. If you didn't get ahead in the capitalist system, it probably means you never been involved in capitalism. You get your paycheck, spend it or save some, and never invest a dime of your personal money outside of a savings account.

Trump said lots of things, most of them contradictory. The Wall is complete nonsense. It was when he first proposed and is even more so today.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Okay, but the reason for that is is not because they want to "Wipe out White People", but because after Nixon and the Southern Strategy, the GOP decided that they were going to play on Whit

And????????

Meaning we do not need a wall across the country, only in strategic locations. We already have over 700 miles of reinforced fencing and areas that terrain is so bad, or border patrol presence is so large, or other factors that we have few crossings.

Trump even said only in strategic locations. Now that we have this problem with people using asylum to get in, we need it more than ever now. As for the older borders, those need to be torn down and rebuilt using the latest technology.

e insecurities...

This is as obvious as the nose on your face. Why would the Democrats be so hell bent on stopping the wall they would even shutdown the government for it? Why did they stop Kate's Law; a law that would have imprisoned foreign felons who returned after deportation? Why would they be fighting like hell to keep their sanctuary cities?

There is only one reason for this, because it sure as hell doesn't benefit this country--it benefits the Democrat party.

They can't tell you their real reasons, but then again, when are they ever honest with their constituents?

Oh, noes, we might actually be able to get you health insurance, and that would be awful!!! Here's the thing, if Capitalism weren't such a shit sandwich for those of us who do the work, then the GOP wouldn't need racism to sell it.

When did the Republicans ever use racism to sell capitalism? Have any examples? We've been a capitalist society for many years Joe. It's not a new concept. If you didn't get ahead in the capitalist system, it probably means you never been involved in capitalism. You get your paycheck, spend it or save some, and never invest a dime of your personal money outside of a savings account.

Trump said lots of things, most of them contradictory. The Wall is complete nonsense. It was when he first proposed and is even more so today.

Well, if the wall is nonsense, let him build it. Nothing could be better for the Democrat party than to allow Republicans to build this wall and have it be a complete failure. They would be able to rub our noses in it for decades to come. They could remind voters ever election on what a waste of money it was.

But the truth is you and I both know a wall would accomplish what we on the right want, and that is a drastic reduction in illegals and deadly narcotics coming to this country. That's one of the things the left is afraid of. The other thing is a wall is not something they could remove. It's there for good.

 

[Coyote]

What if the risk to the child is greater if they are left behind?

Then don't leave them behind. Stay with them, which is the logically natural position. Borders exist for a reason. To illegally cross a border is a crime -- kids or no kids.

Damn those criminals Mary and Joseph. They should have stayed where they were.

 

[Coyote]

''ghh

You're ultimately not benefiting children through policies which encourage people to put them in risky situations in order to use them as human shields. When there are no ideal choices, you have to go with the one which is least-bad for everyone involved.

I don't understand who it is you are criticizing here. What policies encourage people to put children in risky situations? Whose policies? are you referring to?

US immigration policies which give adults a pass on incarceration and prosecution when they're caught if they have children with them only encourage more people to drag children along on their border-crossings. The leftists' short-term, emotion-driven concept of "Awwww, the poor little kiddies" SOUNDS good - to them, anyway - but ultimately encourages people to put more children at risk.

What if the risk to the child is greater if they are left behind?

Give me an example of the risk to the child being so great that it outweighs being smuggled illegally across the border, AND absolutely requires that the family sneak across the border, rather than asking for asylum through the proper legal methods.

By all means, share with me your latest hypothetical sob story that bears no relation to reality. I'm all agog.

If I show you an example, you will label it a sob story that "bears no relation to reality" - I don't think you are very cognizant of the reality in some of those Central and South American countries. I have no desire to educate you.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What if the risk to the child is greater if they are left behind?

Then don't leave them behind. Stay with them, which is the logically natural position. Borders exist for a reason. To illegally cross a border is a crime -- kids or no kids.

Damn those criminals Mary and Joseph. They should have stayed where they were.

So what laws did Mary and Joseph break when they entered their new destination?

 

[Ame®icano]

Back to the topic.

Mexican kids held for months as punishment for border-crossing - Washington Post, March 11, 2015

Last spring, as Central American children flooded into Texas in a way he had never seen in his three-decade career, Border Patrol agent Robert Harris decided to experiment. His intelligence analysts estimated that 78 percent of the guides smuggling other migrants were Mexicans younger than 18 — teenagers often hired or conscripted by drug cartels that knew they would not be prosecuted if caught — and he wanted to attack this loophole.

“Why don’t we remove these juveniles from the smuggling cycle?” Harris, the outgoing commander of the Laredo sector of U.S. Customs and Border Protection, recalled thinking.

Now, as a result of that decision, young Mexicans are being held for months without charge in shelters across the United States, sometimes without their parents’ knowledge. Since the program began in May, 536 juveniles have been held — 248 of whom have been deported to Mexico after an average stay of 75 days, according to Border Patrol statistics. Mexican authorities say some of these repeat border-crossers have spent as much as six months in U.S. custody while they await an appearance before an immigration judge.

Information like this never appeared on Jake Tapper show or similar in leftist media. Not three years ago, not today. All they have to do is little bit of research on themselves to know that this problem with separating families did not started with Trump, and it was big problem much before he became president. There was 9th circuit court decision on this issue before Trump became president. Children have been separated from the parents before Trump became president. There were photographs of detention centers before Trump became president.

Let's continue, shall we?

Obama administration placed children with human traffickers, report says - Washington Post, January 28, 2016

The Obama administration failed to protect thousands of Central American children who have flooded across the U.S. border since 2011, leaving them vulnerable to traffickers and to abuses at the hands of government-approved caretakers, a Senate investigation has found.

The Office of Refugee Resettlement, an agency of the Department of Health and Human Services, failed to do proper background checks of adults who claimed the children, allowed sponsors to take custody of multiple unrelated children, and regularly placed children in homes without visiting the locations, according to a 56-page investigative report released Thursday.

And once the children left federally funded shelters, the report said, the agency permitted their adult sponsors to prevent caseworkers from providing them post-release services.

Here we have an example of another of Barry's policies that Trump have to deal with. Leftist are attacking Trump for trying to end such policies that are inhumane and without compassion. It's untolerable that human trafficking could occur in our own backyard, all with approval of previous administration, and what makes it even more alarming is that US government agencies are responsible for delivering some of the victims to the hands of their abusers. No, the leftist media doesn't want to talk about this, they want to talk how Trump is Nazi, and how he separate children in concentration camps. And Barry has a gut to put the statement out the other day about Trump?

These leftist lunatics knew all along what was going on for years and they never raised the question, until Trump attempted to resolve the status quo and attack the core of the problem. I haven't seen any executive orders from Barry, or even demands for executive orders about this problem, has anyone else?

But wait, there is more.

Obama Administration Handed Child Migrants Over to Human Traffickers - New York Magazine, January 29, 2016

The United States government placed an unknown number of Central American migrant children into the custody of human traffickers after neglecting to run the most basic checks on these so-called “caregivers,” according to a Senate report released on Thursday.

In the fall of 2013, tens of thousands of unaccompanied minors traveled to the U.S. southern border, in flight from poverty and gang violence in Central America. At least six of those children were eventually resettled on an egg farm in Marion, Ohio, where their sponsors forced them to work 12 hours a day under threats of death. Local law enforcement uncovered the operation last year, prompting the Senate’s Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations to open an inquiry into the federal government’s handling of migrants.

When Trump said he inherited these problems, that those were Democrats policies, he was right 100%. He want's to secure the border so fewer illegals can get into the country. The leftist media and Democrats , and even some Republicans will not accept it. They don't want to secure the border, they want open border. Those who are crossing the border illegally are criminals, many of them are rapists, human traffickers, even pedophiles. And Democrats wants to protect them. And they attack Trump? And us? Not just Democrats, but leftist media, two former Flotuses, two former Presidents under whom those policies took place.

Nobody wants an open border and Obama only separated children from parents in very rare cases, super duper Dupe.

I just provided you with three articles that say otherwise, and you're still denying it.

What I do know is, today is not special occasion, you're always so stupid. But keep talking, someday you might even say something intelligent.

Very rare cases dingbat.

You don't say how rare, throw in some numbers, for previous admina dn this one.

However, it's OK to do it, if "your guy" does it "rarely". No reason to protest at all.

 

[Ame®icano]

Back to the topic.

Mexican kids held for months as punishment for border-crossing - Washington Post, March 11, 2015

Last spring, as Central American children flooded into Texas in a way he had never seen in his three-decade career, Border Patrol agent Robert Harris decided to experiment. His intelligence analysts estimated that 78 percent of the guides smuggling other migrants were Mexicans younger than 18 — teenagers often hired or conscripted by drug cartels that knew they would not be prosecuted if caught — and he wanted to attack this loophole.

“Why don’t we remove these juveniles from the smuggling cycle?” Harris, the outgoing commander of the Laredo sector of U.S. Customs and Border Protection, recalled thinking.

Now, as a result of that decision, young Mexicans are being held for months without charge in shelters across the United States, sometimes without their parents’ knowledge. Since the program began in May, 536 juveniles have been held — 248 of whom have been deported to Mexico after an average stay of 75 days, according to Border Patrol statistics. Mexican authorities say some of these repeat border-crossers have spent as much as six months in U.S. custody while they await an appearance before an immigration judge.

Information like this never appeared on Jake Tapper show or similar in leftist media. Not three years ago, not today. All they have to do is little bit of research on themselves to know that this problem with separating families did not started with Trump, and it was big problem much before he became president. There was 9th circuit court decision on this issue before Trump became president. Children have been separated from the parents before Trump became president. There were photographs of detention centers before Trump became president.

Let's continue, shall we?

Obama administration placed children with human traffickers, report says - Washington Post, January 28, 2016

The Obama administration failed to protect thousands of Central American children who have flooded across the U.S. border since 2011, leaving them vulnerable to traffickers and to abuses at the hands of government-approved caretakers, a Senate investigation has found.

The Office of Refugee Resettlement, an agency of the Department of Health and Human Services, failed to do proper background checks of adults who claimed the children, allowed sponsors to take custody of multiple unrelated children, and regularly placed children in homes without visiting the locations, according to a 56-page investigative report released Thursday.

And once the children left federally funded shelters, the report said, the agency permitted their adult sponsors to prevent caseworkers from providing them post-release services.

Here we have an example of another of Barry's policies that Trump have to deal with. Leftist are attacking Trump for trying to end such policies that are inhumane and without compassion. It's untolerable that human trafficking could occur in our own backyard, all with approval of previous administration, and what makes it even more alarming is that US government agencies are responsible for delivering some of the victims to the hands of their abusers. No, the leftist media doesn't want to talk about this, they want to talk how Trump is Nazi, and how he separate children in concentration camps. And Barry has a gut to put the statement out the other day about Trump?

These leftist lunatics knew all along what was going on for years and they never raised the question, until Trump attempted to resolve the status quo and attack the core of the problem. I haven't seen any executive orders from Barry, or even demands for executive orders about this problem, has anyone else?

But wait, there is more.

Obama Administration Handed Child Migrants Over to Human Traffickers - New York Magazine, January 29, 2016

The United States government placed an unknown number of Central American migrant children into the custody of human traffickers after neglecting to run the most basic checks on these so-called “caregivers,” according to a Senate report released on Thursday.

In the fall of 2013, tens of thousands of unaccompanied minors traveled to the U.S. southern border, in flight from poverty and gang violence in Central America. At least six of those children were eventually resettled on an egg farm in Marion, Ohio, where their sponsors forced them to work 12 hours a day under threats of death. Local law enforcement uncovered the operation last year, prompting the Senate’s Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations to open an inquiry into the federal government’s handling of migrants.

When Trump said he inherited these problems, that those were Democrats policies, he was right 100%. He want's to secure the border so fewer illegals can get into the country. The leftist media and Democrats , and even some Republicans will not accept it. They don't want to secure the border, they want open border. Those who are crossing the border illegally are criminals, many of them are rapists, human traffickers, even pedophiles. And Democrats wants to protect them. And they attack Trump? And us? Not just Democrats, but leftist media, two former Flotuses, two former Presidents under whom those policies took place.

Nobody wants an open border and Obama only separated children from parents in very rare cases, super duper Dupe.

I just provided you with three articles that say otherwise, and you're still denying it.

What I do know is, today is not special occasion, you're always so stupid. But keep talking, someday you might even say something intelligent.

I just stick to the facts... I know it's repetitive...truth is like that, dimwit doupe.

Your opinions are not facts. Post the data, shitstain.

 

[Ame®icano]

Correct, because there are no able bodied minorities that aren't taking those jobs either.

So if the problem is welfare, your solution is immigrants. Typical leftist thinking all the way. Don't address the real problem, just create another problem to deal with the first one.

Let capitalism do the work. A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage.

Another communist's great idea that's so good, it have to be forced on employers.

in this case, it is; higher paid labor creates more in demand and pays more in taxes. only the right wing, doesn't really care and never get's it.

You failed to explain what more of demand is created?

Second, unlike communist leach such as yourself, I believe minimum wage should be zero, and also... federal tax should be zero percent and feds should be financed by the states.

It should be a self-evident truth for anyone who knows anything about economics. The poor tend to spend most of their income. Higher paid labor creates more demand by spending more when they have more money to spend.

Crony capitalists don't care about anything but their profit. Government costs. Capitalist, "leaches" only care about profit, not cost. And, dear clueless capitalists, it is not Your money if we have any Problems in our Republic. Congress has the Power to Tax, for any problems the right wing whines about.

Any more Problems, right wingers.

It's self evident, from your posts, that you have no clue about economics. You're advertising communist models, yet can't provide the example of single one that worked.

You're saying that increase of wages create more demand, because spending is increased. Let's test it.

If labor cost increases 10 percent, and that cause increase of product price 10 percent, now much more of demand for the product is created?

 

[Ame®icano]

The rich earned their wealth? Are you that stupid? The Walton’s earned nothing. Sam Walton earned their wealth. The Waltons sit on their asses and collect dividends off the work if others.

The rich have a tax code that keeps wealth flowing to the top. They have labour laws which allow them to deny health care or benefits to workers, and to pay them so little their workers need welfare to supplement their incomes.

They appoint a burger flipper as “manager” so they can work him/her 60 hours a week without paying overtime.

Other countries put their people first. America puts their corporations first, and the wealthy second. Working men and women, who make up the vast majority of your population are denigrated, abused and paid the least amount possible.

Envy is a bitch.

Stop whining about a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, right wingers.

Funny how lefties always settle for a minimum, even if/when minimum is increased.

 

[Ame®icano]

The real purpose of taking kids away from their parents is to persuade the parents to waive a trial and plead guilty. Once they plead guilty, their deportation can be expedited and they will be united with their children in few days or weeks. If they ask for their day in court, they won't see their children for months, or up to 1 year and they are told this.

What a load of crap.

If that is the "real reason" and if Barry hasn't done anything wrong by doing it (with your silent approval), than Trump is doing nothing wrong neither.

Kids don't belong to jail. Their parents are lawbreakers, not them.

The Obama administration placed nearly 90,000 children with a sponsor, after they were detained at the border without a legal guardian. The only time children split from their family under Obama was if the adult was suspected of not being a guardian, had an outstanding warrant, or federal agents suspected the adult of another serious crime like trafficking or smuggling.

The Trump administration policy was to separate all children from their parents with no exceptions and if there had not been the outcry from the public and pressure from congress he would still be doing it. No law compelled him to do it. He did as deterrent and to speed up deportations. His actions were so deplorable that even his wife and daughter spoke out against it.

Not real news: The truth about volcanic gems, and immigrant kids placed into care under Obama

You're parroting Schumer's talking points that President can solve the problem with his pen. Sure he can, under the Section 212F of INA, President have full authority to shut down all immigration when he deems it of national interest. Just so you know and you don't complain about it later.

Now, let's talk about what you said: "No law compelled him to do it."

Back in 1997, there was law where they agree that we cannot detain unaccompanied children. Now, have you heard of Barry appointee district judge Dolly Gee? Not so long ago, in June 2016 she applied the 1997 agreement of not detaining unaccompanied children to all children, including when they cross the border illegally with their parents. You lefties are simply ignoring the law and going solely by the interpretation of the law from one leftist district judge.

The fact is, what president is doing is completely within a law. You lefties and your media are saying there is no such law and having meltdown over it. What you pretty much "forced" Trump to sign is gonna hit you in the ass. Yeah, you may celebrate the "victory", but it's not going to last. What's going to happen is, if Trump can't separate the families while they're being processed, he'll keep them together and deport them together before 20 days of legally being detained expire.

I know you lefties don't care about sovereignty of this country, but there are plenty of us who does including the president. He can stop all the immigration into the country, family based, employment based etc. He can reject every asylum at the border and redirect all asylum claims to be filed in US Embassies. You lefties surely don't want that, but you just might get it.

"The exclusion of aliens is a fundamental act of sovereignty. The right to do so stems not alone from legislative power, but is inherent in the executive power to control the foreign affairs of the nation." - Knauff v. Shaughnessy, 338 U.S. 537 (1950)

should we start with, "misuse of process"? 10USC246 has precedent whenever the "security of our free States", is involved.

So how many joined the armed forces to ensure the security of the free state?

I got one for you.

8 U.S.C. §1182(f) of the U.S. Code confers on the president the power to turn away immigrants at the border. It provides:

Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.

 

[toobfreak]

3800 posts later, all we have is the usual posts from Leftards issuing verbal insults that have nothing to do with the OP and no one has admitted there can be no unacceptable human cost to controlling the borders because as soon as you set a limit beyond which is UNacceptable, you've just thrown away your borders and your nation. The solution is to ELIMINATE THE PROBLEM. Creating an effective border barrier immediately eliminates the problem of human cost! Everyone stays on their side and orderly, effective, legal immigration resumes.

 

[MaryL]

Exactly what is the is the acceptable cost of controlling immigration? I have seen the loss of hundreds of thousands if not millions of middle or lowers class jobs to cheap foreign nationals of questionable status in the last 30 years. Now the uber rich white Koch brothers cynically profit from this, fund & support "Hispanic trusts" and otherwise support are being quoted as reliable sources as to the benefit of illegal immigrants...I might be a little less cynical. I listen to NPR too.How many times have I heard their sponsors being the Koch brothers? Or some other shill for them?

 

[Flopper]

Okay, but the reason for that is is not because they want to "Wipe out White People", but because after Nixon and the Southern Strategy, the GOP decided that they were going to play on Whit

Meaning we do not need a wall across the country, only in strategic locations. We already have over 700 miles of reinforced fencing and areas that terrain is so bad, or border patrol presence is so large, or other factors that we have few crossings.

Trump even said only in strategic locations. Now that we have this problem with people using asylum to get in, we need it more than ever now. As for the older borders, those need to be torn down and rebuilt using the latest technology.

e insecurities...

This is as obvious as the nose on your face. Why would the Democrats be so hell bent on stopping the wall they would even shutdown the government for it? Why did they stop Kate's Law; a law that would have imprisoned foreign felons who returned after deportation? Why would they be fighting like hell to keep their sanctuary cities?

There is only one reason for this, because it sure as hell doesn't benefit this country--it benefits the Democrat party.

They can't tell you their real reasons, but then again, when are they ever honest with their constituents?

Oh, noes, we might actually be able to get you health insurance, and that would be awful!!! Here's the thing, if Capitalism weren't such a shit sandwich for those of us who do the work, then the GOP wouldn't need racism to sell it.

When did the Republicans ever use racism to sell capitalism? Have any examples? We've been a capitalist society for many years Joe. It's not a new concept. If you didn't get ahead in the capitalist system, it probably means you never been involved in capitalism. You get your paycheck, spend it or save some, and never invest a dime of your personal money outside of a savings account.

Trump said lots of things, most of them contradictory. The Wall is complete nonsense. It was when he first proposed and is even more so today.

Well, if the wall is nonsense, let him build it. Nothing could be better for the Democrat party than to allow Republicans to build this wall and have it be a complete failure. They would be able to rub our noses in it for decades to come. They could remind voters ever election on what a waste of money it was.

But the truth is you and I both know a wall would accomplish what we on the right want, and that is a drastic reduction in illegals and deadly narcotics coming to this country. That's one of the things the left is afraid of. The other thing is a wall is not something they could remove. It's there for good.

Sorry about the length of the post.
Democrats as well as a lot of republicans are against building a wall for very sound reasons.

First, it's not going to solve the illegal immigration problem or ever come close. Approximately half of the people in the country illegally are overstays of visas and the problem is getting worst not better. For every three border crossers in 1992, there was one overstay. But by 2012, visa overstays accounted for 58 percent of all new unauthorized immigrants. A wall not only will do nothing to stop these people from entering, but it may actually incentivize more people to stick around without authorization.

Illegal entries are going down and there is good reason to believe they will continue to do so as increasing demand for low wage workers in Mexico increases and border security continues to improve. Demand for workers in the US will eventually persuade congress to increase work permits which will increase the number of overstays and decrease illegal entries.

Second, there is no plan for the wall. Trump has build 8 different protypes but how he plans to spend 25 billion dollars is a mystery to congress and likely his own administration. For example where is he going to build the wall. Trump has said 1500 miles of the border will be wall and he also said 1,000 miles. He said he would use reinforce fencing and he said he will replace all reinforced. He said the wall will be 30 feet high and he said the wall will be 50 feet high. He's not giving congress any real details except he wants 25 billion dollars to build some kind of wall somewhere along the border. This is nuts.

Lastly, Trump has committed to building a wall fast, easy, and on schedule. He has said this over and over. Is that really possible?

70% of the US border is in the hands of private individuals. Many of the owners of larger parcels have said they will fight any attempt to seize their land. To get just 1000 miles of right away for the wall could easy take 10 years. Getting the land to build a freeway that covers 50 miles typical takes 5 to 7 years. Just a few of the obstacles are a large Indian reservation which is about half in the US and half in Mexico. The tribe has said they will fight any attempt to run a wall through the reservation. It would take an act congress to force the tribe to accept the wall thru their land. Then there's a water reservoir jointly managed by the US and Mexico providing water for irrigation and cattle on both sides of the border. Since this is covered by treaty, again it would take an act of congress to resolve the problem. Then there are environmental problems which will very likely bring lawsuits from a number of organizations. And all this is just for starters.

Then there's the untended consequences.
Many of our border patrol officers have stated a wall has one big drawback. You can't see through it. People can stand behind the wall with ropes and ladders waiting for a patrol to pass and then they're over the wall. With fences officers can observe the area for miles and spot people approaching the fence. In cities, ladders ropes and pulleys can be used to sail over a wall. And of course tunnels and simply flying over the wall are real possibilities.

Until the first fence was built in 1990, workers could circulate freely across the border, coming to harvest crops during the summer and then returning home in the winter. They crossed with a goal of bettering their lives south of the border, not to live in US. Prior to 1980 we had a relatively small permanent population of illegal immigrants compared to today. However, as fencing and border patrols increased, crossing became more difficult so once people crossed they stayed longer. If we actually complete a wall and it is really difficult to cross, it seem likely that those who come into the country will be here to stay.

Lastly, Trump will have about 2 years left on his term to build his wall which would be virtually impossible even to complete a small portion. Maybe he would be re-elected but maybe not. Given that republicans have never been very supported of the wall and democrats would do there best to tear it down as soon as they got control of congress, does this project really make sense? Whenever, the country has gone into a major project with cost in the many billions lasting many years, we have always had strong support from at least one party and at least acceptance from the other and generally good support from the public. This project has none of the above.
Why the Wall Won't Work

 

[francoHFW]

Back to the topic.

Mexican kids held for months as punishment for border-crossing - Washington Post, March 11, 2015

Last spring, as Central American children flooded into Texas in a way he had never seen in his three-decade career, Border Patrol agent Robert Harris decided to experiment. His intelligence analysts estimated that 78 percent of the guides smuggling other migrants were Mexicans younger than 18 — teenagers often hired or conscripted by drug cartels that knew they would not be prosecuted if caught — and he wanted to attack this loophole.

“Why don’t we remove these juveniles from the smuggling cycle?” Harris, the outgoing commander of the Laredo sector of U.S. Customs and Border Protection, recalled thinking.

Now, as a result of that decision, young Mexicans are being held for months without charge in shelters across the United States, sometimes without their parents’ knowledge. Since the program began in May, 536 juveniles have been held — 248 of whom have been deported to Mexico after an average stay of 75 days, according to Border Patrol statistics. Mexican authorities say some of these repeat border-crossers have spent as much as six months in U.S. custody while they await an appearance before an immigration judge.

Information like this never appeared on Jake Tapper show or similar in leftist media. Not three years ago, not today. All they have to do is little bit of research on themselves to know that this problem with separating families did not started with Trump, and it was big problem much before he became president. There was 9th circuit court decision on this issue before Trump became president. Children have been separated from the parents before Trump became president. There were photographs of detention centers before Trump became president.

Let's continue, shall we?

Obama administration placed children with human traffickers, report says - Washington Post, January 28, 2016

The Obama administration failed to protect thousands of Central American children who have flooded across the U.S. border since 2011, leaving them vulnerable to traffickers and to abuses at the hands of government-approved caretakers, a Senate investigation has found.

The Office of Refugee Resettlement, an agency of the Department of Health and Human Services, failed to do proper background checks of adults who claimed the children, allowed sponsors to take custody of multiple unrelated children, and regularly placed children in homes without visiting the locations, according to a 56-page investigative report released Thursday.

And once the children left federally funded shelters, the report said, the agency permitted their adult sponsors to prevent caseworkers from providing them post-release services.

Here we have an example of another of Barry's policies that Trump have to deal with. Leftist are attacking Trump for trying to end such policies that are inhumane and without compassion. It's untolerable that human trafficking could occur in our own backyard, all with approval of previous administration, and what makes it even more alarming is that US government agencies are responsible for delivering some of the victims to the hands of their abusers. No, the leftist media doesn't want to talk about this, they want to talk how Trump is Nazi, and how he separate children in concentration camps. And Barry has a gut to put the statement out the other day about Trump?

These leftist lunatics knew all along what was going on for years and they never raised the question, until Trump attempted to resolve the status quo and attack the core of the problem. I haven't seen any executive orders from Barry, or even demands for executive orders about this problem, has anyone else?

But wait, there is more.

Obama Administration Handed Child Migrants Over to Human Traffickers - New York Magazine, January 29, 2016

The United States government placed an unknown number of Central American migrant children into the custody of human traffickers after neglecting to run the most basic checks on these so-called “caregivers,” according to a Senate report released on Thursday.

In the fall of 2013, tens of thousands of unaccompanied minors traveled to the U.S. southern border, in flight from poverty and gang violence in Central America. At least six of those children were eventually resettled on an egg farm in Marion, Ohio, where their sponsors forced them to work 12 hours a day under threats of death. Local law enforcement uncovered the operation last year, prompting the Senate’s Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations to open an inquiry into the federal government’s handling of migrants.

When Trump said he inherited these problems, that those were Democrats policies, he was right 100%. He want's to secure the border so fewer illegals can get into the country. The leftist media and Democrats , and even some Republicans will not accept it. They don't want to secure the border, they want open border. Those who are crossing the border illegally are criminals, many of them are rapists, human traffickers, even pedophiles. And Democrats wants to protect them. And they attack Trump? And us? Not just Democrats, but leftist media, two former Flotuses, two former Presidents under whom those policies took place.

Nobody wants an open border and Obama only separated children from parents in very rare cases, super duper Dupe.

I just provided you with three articles that say otherwise, and you're still denying it.

What I do know is, today is not special occasion, you're always so stupid. But keep talking, someday you might even say something intelligent.

Very rare cases dingbat.

You don't say how rare, throw in some numbers, for previous admina dn this one.

However, it's OK to do it, if "your guy" does it "rarely". No reason to protest at all.

There are no numbers... Very rarely very very rarely or our press would have noticed. It is not humane is against Geneva convention in these cases.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...cwAA&usg=AOvVaw1anMn664CXbtG7i7NS6S4K&ampcf=1

 

[francoHFW]

Let capitalism do the work. A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage.

Another communist's great idea that's so good, it have to be forced on employers.

in this case, it is; higher paid labor creates more in demand and pays more in taxes. only the right wing, doesn't really care and never get's it.

You failed to explain what more of demand is created?

Second, unlike communist leach such as yourself, I believe minimum wage should be zero, and also... federal tax should be zero percent and feds should be financed by the states.

It should be a self-evident truth for anyone who knows anything about economics. The poor tend to spend most of their income. Higher paid labor creates more demand by spending more when they have more money to spend.

Crony capitalists don't care about anything but their profit. Government costs. Capitalist, "leaches" only care about profit, not cost. And, dear clueless capitalists, it is not Your money if we have any Problems in our Republic. Congress has the Power to Tax, for any problems the right wing whines about.

Any more Problems, right wingers.

It's self evident, from your posts, that you have no clue about economics. You're advertising communist models, yet can't provide the example of single one that worked.

You're saying that increase of wages create more demand, because spending is increased. Let's test it.

If labor cost increases 10 percent, and that cause increase of product price 10 percent, now much more of demand for the product is created?

Of course labor is not 100% of cost, more like 10%. So you raise the salaries 100% and and price of product goes up 10%. We are dying for DEMAND IN THIS COUNTRY DUH!

 

[francoHFW]

Back to the topic.

Mexican kids held for months as punishment for border-crossing - Washington Post, March 11, 2015

Last spring, as Central American children flooded into Texas in a way he had never seen in his three-decade career, Border Patrol agent Robert Harris decided to experiment. His intelligence analysts estimated that 78 percent of the guides smuggling other migrants were Mexicans younger than 18 — teenagers often hired or conscripted by drug cartels that knew they would not be prosecuted if caught — and he wanted to attack this loophole.

“Why don’t we remove these juveniles from the smuggling cycle?” Harris, the outgoing commander of the Laredo sector of U.S. Customs and Border Protection, recalled thinking.

Now, as a result of that decision, young Mexicans are being held for months without charge in shelters across the United States, sometimes without their parents’ knowledge. Since the program began in May, 536 juveniles have been held — 248 of whom have been deported to Mexico after an average stay of 75 days, according to Border Patrol statistics. Mexican authorities say some of these repeat border-crossers have spent as much as six months in U.S. custody while they await an appearance before an immigration judge.

Information like this never appeared on Jake Tapper show or similar in leftist media. Not three years ago, not today. All they have to do is little bit of research on themselves to know that this problem with separating families did not started with Trump, and it was big problem much before he became president. There was 9th circuit court decision on this issue before Trump became president. Children have been separated from the parents before Trump became president. There were photographs of detention centers before Trump became president.

Let's continue, shall we?

Obama administration placed children with human traffickers, report says - Washington Post, January 28, 2016

The Obama administration failed to protect thousands of Central American children who have flooded across the U.S. border since 2011, leaving them vulnerable to traffickers and to abuses at the hands of government-approved caretakers, a Senate investigation has found.

The Office of Refugee Resettlement, an agency of the Department of Health and Human Services, failed to do proper background checks of adults who claimed the children, allowed sponsors to take custody of multiple unrelated children, and regularly placed children in homes without visiting the locations, according to a 56-page investigative report released Thursday.

And once the children left federally funded shelters, the report said, the agency permitted their adult sponsors to prevent caseworkers from providing them post-release services.

Here we have an example of another of Barry's policies that Trump have to deal with. Leftist are attacking Trump for trying to end such policies that are inhumane and without compassion. It's untolerable that human trafficking could occur in our own backyard, all with approval of previous administration, and what makes it even more alarming is that US government agencies are responsible for delivering some of the victims to the hands of their abusers. No, the leftist media doesn't want to talk about this, they want to talk how Trump is Nazi, and how he separate children in concentration camps. And Barry has a gut to put the statement out the other day about Trump?

These leftist lunatics knew all along what was going on for years and they never raised the question, until Trump attempted to resolve the status quo and attack the core of the problem. I haven't seen any executive orders from Barry, or even demands for executive orders about this problem, has anyone else?

But wait, there is more.

Obama Administration Handed Child Migrants Over to Human Traffickers - New York Magazine, January 29, 2016

The United States government placed an unknown number of Central American migrant children into the custody of human traffickers after neglecting to run the most basic checks on these so-called “caregivers,” according to a Senate report released on Thursday.

In the fall of 2013, tens of thousands of unaccompanied minors traveled to the U.S. southern border, in flight from poverty and gang violence in Central America. At least six of those children were eventually resettled on an egg farm in Marion, Ohio, where their sponsors forced them to work 12 hours a day under threats of death. Local law enforcement uncovered the operation last year, prompting the Senate’s Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations to open an inquiry into the federal government’s handling of migrants.

When Trump said he inherited these problems, that those were Democrats policies, he was right 100%. He want's to secure the border so fewer illegals can get into the country. The leftist media and Democrats , and even some Republicans will not accept it. They don't want to secure the border, they want open border. Those who are crossing the border illegally are criminals, many of them are rapists, human traffickers, even pedophiles. And Democrats wants to protect them. And they attack Trump? And us? Not just Democrats, but leftist media, two former Flotuses, two former Presidents under whom those policies took place.

Nobody wants an open border and Obama only separated children from parents in very rare cases, super duper Dupe.

I just provided you with three articles that say otherwise, and you're still denying it.

What I do know is, today is not special occasion, you're always so stupid. But keep talking, someday you might even say something intelligent.

I just stick to the facts... I know it's repetitive...truth is like that, dimwit doupe.

Your opinions are not facts. Post the data, shitstain.

Well in fact there are no numbers s*** head as I have linked to before several times. Learn something read something don't be a dupe.

 

[Dragonlady]

3800 posts later, all we have is the usual posts from Leftards issuing verbal insults that have nothing to do with the OP and no one has admitted there can be no unacceptable human cost to controlling the borders because as soon as you set a limit beyond which is UNacceptable, you've just thrown away your borders and your nation. The solution is to ELIMINATE THE PROBLEM. Creating an effective border barrier immediately eliminates the problem of human cost! Everyone stays on their side and orderly, effective, legal immigration resumes.

Building a border wall is expensive and basically useless because border crossings are at such low levels. The government still hasn’t settled all the law suits from the last attempt at building a wall so there are issues with getting the land they would need.

A wall does NOTHING to stop people from flying in with tourist or student visas and overstaying their visas, which is how most illegal immigrants enter the country. Most of the illegal drugs cross into the US by plane or boat.

 

[Slyhunter]

3800 posts later, all we have is the usual posts from Leftards issuing verbal insults that have nothing to do with the OP and no one has admitted there can be no unacceptable human cost to controlling the borders because as soon as you set a limit beyond which is UNacceptable, you've just thrown away your borders and your nation. The solution is to ELIMINATE THE PROBLEM. Creating an effective border barrier immediately eliminates the problem of human cost! Everyone stays on their side and orderly, effective, legal immigration resumes.

Building a border wall is expensive and basically useless because border crossings are at such low levels. The government still hasn’t settled all the law suits from the last attempt at building a wall so there are issues with getting the land they would need.

A wall does NOTHING to stop people from flying in with tourist or student visas and overstaying their visas, which is how most illegal immigrants enter the country. Most of the illegal drugs cross into the US by plane or boat.

40,000 people cross the border illegally every month. Those are the people the wall will stop.

 

[Flopper]

3800 posts later, all we have is the usual posts from Leftards issuing verbal insults that have nothing to do with the OP and no one has admitted there can be no unacceptable human cost to controlling the borders because as soon as you set a limit beyond which is UNacceptable, you've just thrown away your borders and your nation. The solution is to ELIMINATE THE PROBLEM. Creating an effective border barrier immediately eliminates the problem of human cost! Everyone stays on their side and orderly, effective, legal immigration resumes.

Building a border wall is expensive and basically useless because border crossings are at such low levels. The government still hasn’t settled all the law suits from the last attempt at building a wall so there are issues with getting the land they would need.

A wall does NOTHING to stop people from flying in with tourist or student visas and overstaying their visas, which is how most illegal immigrants enter the country. Most of the illegal drugs cross into the US by plane or boat.

The Border Patrol said a big disadvantage to a wall is they can't see through. So people can be on the other side with ladders and ropes waiting till the patrol passes. Currently the officers can see through fences and see people approaching the boarder.

The biggest problem as you pointed out is the decreasing number of people attempting to cross the boarder and the increasing number of visa overstays. The border does nothing to solve the visa overstay problem which accounts for about half of the undocumented immigrants and is growing. In 25 years when there is no illegal immigrant problem and people need better access to both sides of the border, what do you do with this thing other than tear it down.

 

[Clementine]

The left is suddenly ignoring years of Obama bragging about deporting more people than anyone. He separated more families than anyone.

Now, the midterms are coming and the left has manufactured yet another "crisis." That's all this is.

Suddenly, those politicians who campaigned by promising to get tough on illegal immigration are now apparently demanding open borders.

It would seem the left is insisting that all the people pouring through our borders illegally are all innocent parents with their children. No criminals to be found in the lot of them.

And we are monsters for even asking them to check in at the border.

Meanwhile, the serious issue of human trafficking is a real danger. The MS-24 gangs, whose motto is "Kill, Rape, Control" continue to gain strength in our cities. Drug smugglers come and go with ease. Even weapons smugglers are finding it a breeze to do business with the gangs here in the states. And the left wants us to welcome them all with open arms.

We need to clamp down fast and get the border under control. I'm sure there are deserving people we should let in. People who do work hard and want to become U.S. citizens. Some do want to take advantage of us.

There is a huge backlog of people waiting to be processed. When they sneak across the border and get caught, they should expect some hardships. Only 1 in 5 bother to come through a legal entry port. Yes, we should detain anyone coming illegally. And if they are criminals who have been deported before, they should be arrested and separated from any children that are with them.

The left didn't care about the atrocities at the border when Obama was president. Now, Trump is supposed to roll out the red carpet for anyone coming in. I'm sure we should have fancy housing for them to move into and no process to find out who they are or why they are here.

The ones who get separated from children are ones who get arrested for committing a crime. I guess the left is okay with criminals living in the family centers with all the innocent children. Because they care, you know.

Trump is willing to give a break to some whose only crime is crossing the border illegally. First time is considered a misdemeanor. Second time is a felony. Many have been deported numerous times after committing other crimes while in the country. But, the left wants them all treated the same.

We should be sending as many agents to the border as possible to weed out the scum. If we weren't spending so much money and effort trying to keep up with the scum and the animals, maybe we could do more for those who are deserving.

The left loves chaos. And they love fake news and inciting riots. Here we go again with another effort from the left wing radicals to encourage violence in our streets. It seems that this is their favorite tactic for trying to win elections.

As far as the question in the thread title- how many Americans must be killed by illegal aliens before we secure the borders? What human cost is acceptable for the left to win? If the left really gives a shit about children or anyone else, you'd think national security would be a top priority, not pandering to criminals who see America as a rich target.