What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[JoeB131]

Then he gave me two weeks off without pay. I told unemployment he fired me and lived on it for a couple of months. Then I moved to Florida and became a assembly line worker. If I had gone back to him and apologized he would've hired me back. My pride wouldn't let me. If I had been properly diagnosed with bipolar disorder back then and properly medicated maybe things would've been different. I have not written code since then.

1992, now its 2018 and I still make $10.00 per hour.

Okay, so what was the point of that story? I mean, I feel bad for your situation, but most of your posts seem to lack compassion for others.

 

[JoeB131]

Over 12 million illegals doesn't exist? People trying to sneak into the country doesn't exist? What rock are you living under?

Yeah, the wall does send a message: STF out of this country. There is nothing ugly about it. And the Democrats are worried about wasting money? They really got you hook, line and sinker Joe.

Won't keep them out of the country and is probably never, ever going to be built. And, no 12 million undocumented workers isn't really a problem. Well, they're a problem for the GOP, because their children WILL vote and remember what assholes you were.

Oh, it that it? So instead, let the real criminals roam American streets to sell drugs, rape, rob and murder Americans. Yeah, that's the Democrat way.

Guy, we lock up 2 million people and we have the highest crime rates in the industrialized world. Locking them up doesn't help, it actually makes it worse.

Bullshit. They are still going after illegals. You are so dense you don't see a common denominator in all this yet? You must be as blind as a bat.

They take jobs Americans won't and will. That brings down our pay scale for all Americans. The Dummycrats have you believe the only thing these illegals do is pick grapes.

Um, guy, if you are such a loser that an illegal is a serious threat to your job, that's kind of on you.

Name one thing Reagan did to make it easier to beak up unions. Name one thing he did to send jobs overseas.

He fired the PATCO workers. Sent a clear signal, government no longer had the working man's back.

And I see you couldn't answer the question. So one more time: when did Republicans ever use racism to promote capitalism?

I just told you..... oh , never mind.

Letting people keep more of THEIR OWN MONEY is not a giveaway to anybody. But even if we did, it's way more beneficial than giving it to people who produce nothing; people who don't create jobs; people who don't donate to charities.

Um, yeah, it kind of is. It costs money to have civilization. If the rich don't pay for it, the rest of us end up doing so.

Utter bull. Government jobs doesn't help an economy. Take more money from the rich? The rich already pay most of the income taxes for all of us.

Um, no, they really don't. Also, Income taxes are only part of the equation.

So what about the people who paid into the programs that never collected a dime? Yeah, all those white working people who died before 65?

What about them? They don't exist anymore.

If you want to criticize anybody, how about the great society creator instead of all white people? You know, one of the very kind of people you support today. Sit there talking about getting more than you pay in, and in the same breath, talk about government healthcare. Well WTF do you think would happen to that program? And if and when it does, will you then be complaining that socialized healthcare is white welfare too? Probably so.

Here's what you don't get. The reason why we have Medicare is because big insurance won't insure Nana at 65. The old broad is going to get sick. The reality is, Medicare has been too successful. Before 1965, the average lifespan was about 65. You got old, you got sick, you went broke and you died.

Now people don't die when big business is done exploiting them... Oh, the horror of it all.

 

[Flopper]

The left is suddenly ignoring years of Obama bragging about deporting more people than anyone. He separated more families than anyone.

Now, the midterms are coming and the left has manufactured yet another "crisis." That's all this is.

Suddenly, those politicians who campaigned by promising to get tough on illegal immigration are now apparently demanding open borders.

It would seem the left is insisting that all the people pouring through our borders illegally are all innocent parents with their children. No criminals to be found in the lot of them.

And we are monsters for even asking them to check in at the border.

Meanwhile, the serious issue of human trafficking is a real danger. The MS-24 gangs, whose motto is "Kill, Rape, Control" continue to gain strength in our cities. Drug smugglers come and go with ease. Even weapons smugglers are finding it a breeze to do business with the gangs here in the states. And the left wants us to welcome them all with open arms.

We need to clamp down fast and get the border under control. I'm sure there are deserving people we should let in. People who do work hard and want to become U.S. citizens. Some do want to take advantage of us.

There is a huge backlog of people waiting to be processed. When they sneak across the border and get caught, they should expect some hardships. Only 1 in 5 bother to come through a legal entry port. Yes, we should detain anyone coming illegally. And if they are criminals who have been deported before, they should be arrested and separated from any children that are with them.

The left didn't care about the atrocities at the border when Obama was president. Now, Trump is supposed to roll out the red carpet for anyone coming in. I'm sure we should have fancy housing for them to move into and no process to find out who they are or why they are here.

The ones who get separated from children are ones who get arrested for committing a crime. I guess the left is okay with criminals living in the family centers with all the innocent children. Because they care, you know.

Trump is willing to give a break to some whose only crime is crossing the border illegally. First time is considered a misdemeanor. Second time is a felony. Many have been deported numerous times after committing other crimes while in the country. But, the left wants them all treated the same.

We should be sending as many agents to the border as possible to weed out the scum. If we weren't spending so much money and effort trying to keep up with the scum and the animals, maybe we could do more for those who are deserving.

The left loves chaos. And they love fake news and inciting riots. Here we go again with another effort from the left wing radicals to encourage violence in our streets. It seems that this is their favorite tactic for trying to win elections.

As far as the question in the thread title- how many Americans must be killed by illegal aliens before we secure the borders? What human cost is acceptable for the left to win? If the left really gives a shit about children or anyone else, you'd think national security would be a top priority, not pandering to criminals who see America as a rich target.

Major difference between Obama on deportation and Trump is that for Obama his deportation record became a badge shame and for Trump it was a badge of honor. Obama was labeled Deporter in Chief in 2014 by the media. Obama pictured deportees as victims of poverty, abuse, and a failed economic system. Trump pictures them as rapist, murders, and drug traffickers.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The left is suddenly ignoring years of Obama bragging about deporting more people than anyone. He separated more families than anyone.

Now, the midterms are coming and the left has manufactured yet another "crisis." That's all this is.

Suddenly, those politicians who campaigned by promising to get tough on illegal immigration are now apparently demanding open borders.

It would seem the left is insisting that all the people pouring through our borders illegally are all innocent parents with their children. No criminals to be found in the lot of them.

And we are monsters for even asking them to check in at the border.

Meanwhile, the serious issue of human trafficking is a real danger. The MS-24 gangs, whose motto is "Kill, Rape, Control" continue to gain strength in our cities. Drug smugglers come and go with ease. Even weapons smugglers are finding it a breeze to do business with the gangs here in the states. And the left wants us to welcome them all with open arms.

We need to clamp down fast and get the border under control. I'm sure there are deserving people we should let in. People who do work hard and want to become U.S. citizens. Some do want to take advantage of us.

There is a huge backlog of people waiting to be processed. When they sneak across the border and get caught, they should expect some hardships. Only 1 in 5 bother to come through a legal entry port. Yes, we should detain anyone coming illegally. And if they are criminals who have been deported before, they should be arrested and separated from any children that are with them.

The left didn't care about the atrocities at the border when Obama was president. Now, Trump is supposed to roll out the red carpet for anyone coming in. I'm sure we should have fancy housing for them to move into and no process to find out who they are or why they are here.

The ones who get separated from children are ones who get arrested for committing a crime. I guess the left is okay with criminals living in the family centers with all the innocent children. Because they care, you know.

Trump is willing to give a break to some whose only crime is crossing the border illegally. First time is considered a misdemeanor. Second time is a felony. Many have been deported numerous times after committing other crimes while in the country. But, the left wants them all treated the same.

We should be sending as many agents to the border as possible to weed out the scum. If we weren't spending so much money and effort trying to keep up with the scum and the animals, maybe we could do more for those who are deserving.

The left loves chaos. And they love fake news and inciting riots. Here we go again with another effort from the left wing radicals to encourage violence in our streets. It seems that this is their favorite tactic for trying to win elections.

As far as the question in the thread title- how many Americans must be killed by illegal aliens before we secure the borders? What human cost is acceptable for the left to win? If the left really gives a shit about children or anyone else, you'd think national security would be a top priority, not pandering to criminals who see America as a rich target.

Major difference between Obama on deportation and Trump is that for Obama his deportation record became a badge shame and for Trump it was a badge of honor. Obama was labeled Deporter in Chief in 2014 by the media. Obama pictured deportees as victims of poverty, abuse, and a failed economic system. Trump pictures them as rapist, murders, and drug traffickers.

The question is are either one of them wrong?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Won't keep them out of the country and is probably never, ever going to be built. And, no 12 million undocumented workers isn't really a problem. Well, they're a problem for the GOP, because their children WILL vote and remember what assholes you were.

Which is why my stance is that the Democrat party became the anti-white party. And who other than a stupid F would support a party that wants to make them a minority?

The left is scared to death of a wall and with good reason: because it would work. While it may not keep out everybody, it will keep out a good portion of them, just like our drug laws don't keep everybody off of drugs, or our rape and murder laws don't completely stop the crimes. However laws and deterrents control those actions and bring them to a minimum.

I mean, don't be stupid. If the D's actually thought the wall would be a complete failure, why not let Republicans have their wall? If it did fail (as the Democrats lie about) they would be able to rub our noses in it for decades to come. They could remind voters every election like we are doing with Commie Care.

Guy, we lock up 2 million people and we have the highest crime rates in the industrialized world. Locking them up doesn't help, it actually makes it worse.

Oh, so telling felon illegals we won't lock them up if they return after deporation would make it worse? Then you wonder why we call you people the uninformed voters?

Um, guy, if you are such a loser that an illegal is a serious threat to your job, that's kind of on you.

No, it's kind of on the anti-American losers who just want to drag people into this country for power, and to hell with the Americans. Forget about the billions we spend catering to these people. Forget about the income lost. Forget about the crime they bring like MS-13. Forget about the tens of millions of American dollars they send back home. It's all our problem now. It's on you (as you said).

And when they come to C-town and start writing resumes and you have no income because you can't compete against somebody doing your job for twenty bucks, come here and tell us how that's your problem.

He fired the PATCO workers. Sent a clear signal, government no longer had the working man's back.

That's exactly all I thought you had. Nothing. Reagan didn't do squat to unions or sending jobs overseas. Politicians don't send jobs overseas, private companies do. They do so when things here get too expensive to operate their business.

I just told you..... oh , never mind.

Not even close.

Um, yeah, it kind of is. It costs money to have civilization. If the rich don't pay for it, the rest of us end up doing so.

But the rich do pay for it. They pay for it almost entirely.

Um, no, they really don't. Also, Income taxes are only part of the equation.

Every program outside of SS and Medicare is paid by the rich. Welfare is paid by the rich. Food Stamps is paid for by the rich. SCHIP's is paid for by the rich, and now the poor thanks to DumBama's action of taxing cigarettes. Medicaid is paid for by the rich. Every federal government program is paid for by federal income taxes.

What about them? They don't exist anymore.

They are the ones who pay into the program that others get because they didn't collect. It's how these Ponzi schemes exist for a period of time. Those working white people contribute to those programs, and when they die, it supports the part of the unpaid portion that living white people live on.

Of course it's all stupidity since social programs have absolutely nothing to do with race; everybody who works pays into them and everybody who retires collects from them. But if I explained that to you without using the race factor, it would't compute in your race baiting head.

Here's what you don't get. The reason why we have Medicare is because big insurance won't insure Nana at 65. The old broad is going to get sick. The reality is, Medicare has been too successful. Before 1965, the average lifespan was about 65. You got old, you got sick, you went broke and you died.

Now people don't die when big business is done exploiting them... Oh, the horror of it all.

The horror if it all? It's you that called Medicare a white welfare program--not me.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

This is as obvious as the nose on your face. Why would the Democrats be so hell bent on stopping the wall they would even shutdown the government for it? Why did they stop Kate's Law; a law that would have imprisoned foreign felons who returned after deportation? Why would they be fighting like hell to keep their sanctuary cities?

There is only one reason for this, because it sure as hell doesn't benefit this country--it benefits the Democrat party.

They can't tell you their real reasons, but then again, when are they ever honest with their constituents?

When did the Republicans ever use racism to sell capitalism? Have any examples? We've been a capitalist society for many years Joe. It's not a new concept. If you didn't get ahead in the capitalist system, it probably means you never been involved in capitalism. You get your paycheck, spend it or save some, and never invest a dime of your personal money outside of a savings account.

Trump said lots of things, most of them contradictory. The Wall is complete nonsense. It was when he first proposed and is even more so today.

Well, if the wall is nonsense, let him build it. Nothing could be better for the Democrat party than to allow Republicans to build this wall and have it be a complete failure. They would be able to rub our noses in it for decades to come. They could remind voters ever election on what a waste of money it was.

But the truth is you and I both know a wall would accomplish what we on the right want, and that is a drastic reduction in illegals and deadly narcotics coming to this country. That's one of the things the left is afraid of. The other thing is a wall is not something they could remove. It's there for good.

Sorry about the length of the post.
Democrats as well as a lot of republicans are against building a wall for very sound reasons.

First, it's not going to solve the illegal immigration problem or ever come close. Approximately half of the people in the country illegally are overstays of visas and the problem is getting worst not better. For every three border crossers in 1992, there was one overstay. But by 2012, visa overstays accounted for 58 percent of all new unauthorized immigrants. A wall not only will do nothing to stop these people from entering, but it may actually incentivize more people to stick around without authorization.

Illegal entries are going down and there is good reason to believe they will continue to do so as increasing demand for low wage workers in Mexico increases and border security continues to improve. Demand for workers in the US will eventually persuade congress to increase work permits which will increase the number of overstays and decrease illegal entries.

Second, there is no plan for the wall. Trump has build 8 different protypes but how he plans to spend 25 billion dollars is a mystery to congress and likely his own administration. For example where is he going to build the wall. Trump has said 1500 miles of the border will be wall and he also said 1,000 miles. He said he would use reinforce fencing and he said he will replace all reinforced. He said the wall will be 30 feet high and he said the wall will be 50 feet high. He's not giving congress any real details except he wants 25 billion dollars to build some kind of wall somewhere along the border. This is nuts.

Lastly, Trump has committed to building a wall fast, easy, and on schedule. He has said this over and over. Is that really possible?

70% of the US border is in the hands of private individuals. Many of the owners of larger parcels have said they will fight any attempt to seize their land. To get just 1000 miles of right away for the wall could easy take 10 years. Getting the land to build a freeway that covers 50 miles typical takes 5 to 7 years. Just a few of the obstacles are a large Indian reservation which is about half in the US and half in Mexico. The tribe has said they will fight any attempt to run a wall through the reservation. It would take an act congress to force the tribe to accept the wall thru their land. Then there's a water reservoir jointly managed by the US and Mexico providing water for irrigation and cattle on both sides of the border. Since this is covered by treaty, again it would take an act of congress to resolve the problem. Then there are environmental problems which will very likely bring lawsuits from a number of organizations. And all this is just for starters.

Then there's the untended consequences.
Many of our border patrol officers have stated a wall has one big drawback. You can't see through it. People can stand behind the wall with ropes and ladders waiting for a patrol to pass and then they're over the wall. With fences officers can observe the area for miles and spot people approaching the fence. In cities, ladders ropes and pulleys can be used to sail over a wall. And of course tunnels and simply flying over the wall are real possibilities.

Until the first fence was built in 1990, workers could circulate freely across the border, coming to harvest crops during the summer and then returning home in the winter. They crossed with a goal of bettering their lives south of the border, not to live in US. Prior to 1980 we had a relatively small permanent population of illegal immigrants compared to today. However, as fencing and border patrols increased, crossing became more difficult so once people crossed they stayed longer. If we actually complete a wall and it is really difficult to cross, it seem likely that those who come into the country will be here to stay.

Lastly, Trump will have about 2 years left on his term to build his wall which would be virtually impossible even to complete a small portion. Maybe he would be re-elected but maybe not. Given that republicans have never been very supported of the wall and democrats would do there best to tear it down as soon as they got control of congress, does this project really make sense? Whenever, the country has gone into a major project with cost in the many billions lasting many years, we have always had strong support from at least one party and at least acceptance from the other and generally good support from the public. This project has none of the above.
Why the Wall Won't Work

Sounds like a lot of excuse making to me by somebody who is against the wall.

If the money is appropriated, then plans could be made. Trump only makes the decision on the plans. The plans are actually made by our border patrol and all agencies that protect our border. I'm sure the military would be involved as well. If you think these people and agencies are so inept they can't figure out ways intruders will try to get around this wall, you are not giving much credit where credit is due.

This money is a pittance of our budget. We spend more than three times the cost of the wall just to provide food stamps for one single year. Plus when you consider how much illegals are costing us every year, the wall will pay for itself in just one year or less.

Now if the Democrats want to try and remove a 35 billion dollar wall; especially if it shows very positive results, be my guest. Nothing would be better for the Republican party if and when they decide to do it.

And if we find a way to cut down on overstays, do you think these people just won't come here? Of course not. If we are able to do that, they will be crossing the border next, and then it will be even a bigger problem.

You're making the assumption that the thing will actually be built. The reality is that only a small part if any will be completed during the Trump administration.

You have to start somewhere. I don't care who pays for it and I don't care who gets credit, just as long as we move in the right direction.

 

[Ame®icano]

The rich earned their wealth? Are you that stupid? The Walton’s earned nothing. Sam Walton earned their wealth. The Waltons sit on their asses and collect dividends off the work if others.

The rich have a tax code that keeps wealth flowing to the top. They have labour laws which allow them to deny health care or benefits to workers, and to pay them so little their workers need welfare to supplement their incomes.

They appoint a burger flipper as “manager” so they can work him/her 60 hours a week without paying overtime.

Other countries put their people first. America puts their corporations first, and the wealthy second. Working men and women, who make up the vast majority of your population are denigrated, abused and paid the least amount possible.

Envy is a bitch.

Stop whining about a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, right wingers.

Funny how lefties always settle for a minimum, even if/when minimum is increased.

even funnier how the right wing even envies a minimum wage enough to whine about the cost.

The only minimum wage minimum I envy is zero. That's about what your labor real value is.

 

[Ame®icano]

What a load of crap.

If that is the "real reason" and if Barry hasn't done anything wrong by doing it (with your silent approval), than Trump is doing nothing wrong neither.

Kids don't belong to jail. Their parents are lawbreakers, not them.

The Obama administration placed nearly 90,000 children with a sponsor, after they were detained at the border without a legal guardian. The only time children split from their family under Obama was if the adult was suspected of not being a guardian, had an outstanding warrant, or federal agents suspected the adult of another serious crime like trafficking or smuggling.

The Trump administration policy was to separate all children from their parents with no exceptions and if there had not been the outcry from the public and pressure from congress he would still be doing it. No law compelled him to do it. He did as deterrent and to speed up deportations. His actions were so deplorable that even his wife and daughter spoke out against it.

Not real news: The truth about volcanic gems, and immigrant kids placed into care under Obama

You're parroting Schumer's talking points that President can solve the problem with his pen. Sure he can, under the Section 212F of INA, President have full authority to shut down all immigration when he deems it of national interest. Just so you know and you don't complain about it later.

Now, let's talk about what you said: "No law compelled him to do it."

Back in 1997, there was law where they agree that we cannot detain unaccompanied children. Now, have you heard of Barry appointee district judge Dolly Gee? Not so long ago, in June 2016 she applied the 1997 agreement of not detaining unaccompanied children to all children, including when they cross the border illegally with their parents. You lefties are simply ignoring the law and going solely by the interpretation of the law from one leftist district judge.

The fact is, what president is doing is completely within a law. You lefties and your media are saying there is no such law and having meltdown over it. What you pretty much "forced" Trump to sign is gonna hit you in the ass. Yeah, you may celebrate the "victory", but it's not going to last. What's going to happen is, if Trump can't separate the families while they're being processed, he'll keep them together and deport them together before 20 days of legally being detained expire.

I know you lefties don't care about sovereignty of this country, but there are plenty of us who does including the president. He can stop all the immigration into the country, family based, employment based etc. He can reject every asylum at the border and redirect all asylum claims to be filed in US Embassies. You lefties surely don't want that, but you just might get it.

"The exclusion of aliens is a fundamental act of sovereignty. The right to do so stems not alone from legislative power, but is inherent in the executive power to control the foreign affairs of the nation." - Knauff v. Shaughnessy, 338 U.S. 537 (1950)

should we start with, "misuse of process"? 10USC246 has precedent whenever the "security of our free States", is involved.

So how many joined the armed forces to ensure the security of the free state?

I got one for you.

8 U.S.C. §1182(f) of the U.S. Code confers on the president the power to turn away immigrants at the border. It provides:

Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.

do we have alleged Wars on crime, drugs, and terror or not, right wingers.

10USC246 takes, State security and Union security, precedence.

Over the constitution? Nope.

 

[Slyhunter]

Over 12 million illegals doesn't exist? People trying to sneak into the country doesn't exist? What rock are you living under?

Yeah, the wall does send a message: STF out of this country. There is nothing ugly about it. And the Democrats are worried about wasting money? They really got you hook, line and sinker Joe.

Won't keep them out of the country and is probably never, ever going to be built. And, no 12 million undocumented workers isn't really a problem. Well, they're a problem for the GOP, because their children WILL vote and remember what assholes you were.

Oh, it that it? So instead, let the real criminals roam American streets to sell drugs, rape, rob and murder Americans. Yeah, that's the Democrat way.

Guy, we lock up 2 million people and we have the highest crime rates in the industrialized world. Locking them up doesn't help, it actually makes it worse.

Bullshit. They are still going after illegals. You are so dense you don't see a common denominator in all this yet? You must be as blind as a bat.

They take jobs Americans won't and will. That brings down our pay scale for all Americans. The Dummycrats have you believe the only thing these illegals do is pick grapes.

Um, guy, if you are such a loser that an illegal is a serious threat to your job, that's kind of on you.

Name one thing Reagan did to make it easier to beak up unions. Name one thing he did to send jobs overseas.

He fired the PATCO workers. Sent a clear signal, government no longer had the working man's back.

And I see you couldn't answer the question. So one more time: when did Republicans ever use racism to promote capitalism?

I just told you..... oh , never mind.

Letting people keep more of THEIR OWN MONEY is not a giveaway to anybody. But even if we did, it's way more beneficial than giving it to people who produce nothing; people who don't create jobs; people who don't donate to charities.

Um, yeah, it kind of is. It costs money to have civilization. If the rich don't pay for it, the rest of us end up doing so.

Utter bull. Government jobs doesn't help an economy. Take more money from the rich? The rich already pay most of the income taxes for all of us.

Um, no, they really don't. Also, Income taxes are only part of the equation.

So what about the people who paid into the programs that never collected a dime? Yeah, all those white working people who died before 65?

What about them? They don't exist anymore.

If you want to criticize anybody, how about the great society creator instead of all white people? You know, one of the very kind of people you support today. Sit there talking about getting more than you pay in, and in the same breath, talk about government healthcare. Well WTF do you think would happen to that program? And if and when it does, will you then be complaining that socialized healthcare is white welfare too? Probably so.

Here's what you don't get. The reason why we have Medicare is because big insurance won't insure Nana at 65. The old broad is going to get sick. The reality is, Medicare has been too successful. Before 1965, the average lifespan was about 65. You got old, you got sick, you went broke and you died.

Now people don't die when big business is done exploiting them... Oh, the horror of it all.

They don't die because they have Medicare.

 

[Slyhunter]

Then he gave me two weeks off without pay. I told unemployment he fired me and lived on it for a couple of months. Then I moved to Florida and became a assembly line worker. If I had gone back to him and apologized he would've hired me back. My pride wouldn't let me. If I had been properly diagnosed with bipolar disorder back then and properly medicated maybe things would've been different. I have not written code since then.

1992, now its 2018 and I still make $10.00 per hour.

Okay, so what was the point of that story? I mean, I feel bad for your situation, but most of your posts seem to lack compassion for others.

I think it had something to do with wages not keeping up with inflation.

 

[Clementine]

The left is suddenly ignoring years of Obama bragging about deporting more people than anyone. He separated more families than anyone.

Now, the midterms are coming and the left has manufactured yet another "crisis." That's all this is.

Suddenly, those politicians who campaigned by promising to get tough on illegal immigration are now apparently demanding open borders.

It would seem the left is insisting that all the people pouring through our borders illegally are all innocent parents with their children. No criminals to be found in the lot of them.

And we are monsters for even asking them to check in at the border.

Meanwhile, the serious issue of human trafficking is a real danger. The MS-24 gangs, whose motto is "Kill, Rape, Control" continue to gain strength in our cities. Drug smugglers come and go with ease. Even weapons smugglers are finding it a breeze to do business with the gangs here in the states. And the left wants us to welcome them all with open arms.

We need to clamp down fast and get the border under control. I'm sure there are deserving people we should let in. People who do work hard and want to become U.S. citizens. Some do want to take advantage of us.

There is a huge backlog of people waiting to be processed. When they sneak across the border and get caught, they should expect some hardships. Only 1 in 5 bother to come through a legal entry port. Yes, we should detain anyone coming illegally. And if they are criminals who have been deported before, they should be arrested and separated from any children that are with them.

The left didn't care about the atrocities at the border when Obama was president. Now, Trump is supposed to roll out the red carpet for anyone coming in. I'm sure we should have fancy housing for them to move into and no process to find out who they are or why they are here.

The ones who get separated from children are ones who get arrested for committing a crime. I guess the left is okay with criminals living in the family centers with all the innocent children. Because they care, you know.

Trump is willing to give a break to some whose only crime is crossing the border illegally. First time is considered a misdemeanor. Second time is a felony. Many have been deported numerous times after committing other crimes while in the country. But, the left wants them all treated the same.

We should be sending as many agents to the border as possible to weed out the scum. If we weren't spending so much money and effort trying to keep up with the scum and the animals, maybe we could do more for those who are deserving.

The left loves chaos. And they love fake news and inciting riots. Here we go again with another effort from the left wing radicals to encourage violence in our streets. It seems that this is their favorite tactic for trying to win elections.

As far as the question in the thread title- how many Americans must be killed by illegal aliens before we secure the borders? What human cost is acceptable for the left to win? If the left really gives a shit about children or anyone else, you'd think national security would be a top priority, not pandering to criminals who see America as a rich target.

Major difference between Obama on deportation and Trump is that for Obama his deportation record became a badge shame and for Trump it was a badge of honor. Obama was labeled Deporter in Chief in 2014 by the media. Obama pictured deportees as victims of poverty, abuse, and a failed economic system. Trump pictures them as rapist, murders, and drug traffickers.

So, Obama beat his chest in victory after deporting victims of poverty, abuse and a failed economic system. Trump is focused on deporting the violent criminals. Sounds about right. There are too many rapists, murderers and gang members who have been deported more than once and they just come back in anytime they please. Something has to be done. Anyone coming in illegally needs to understand that there will be consequences and possible separations for those committing crimes.

Human trafficking is becoming a huge problem. The instances of people bringing children that they are not related to is up over 300%. But, hey, we shouldn't question them or worry about the safety of children. Even when parents have been convicted of violent crimes, we should just lead them to the family detention center and assume all will be fine.

Trump, unlike Obama, is making an effort to keep families together IF the parents are not criminals, meaning committing crimes other than a misdemeanor border crossing. Just don't give him any credit because he is a Republican.

Why didn't the media stir people into a frenzy over Obama's mass deportations of these poor people after separating the children from their parents? They knew about it, but they weren't going to turn on one of their own. Trump hasn't done a fraction of what Obama did and yet they are acting like the end of the world is near. Even the liberal ACLU reported the abuse of minor children in detention centers during Obama's reign. Can't ignore it. The radical leftists are accusing Trump of things that Obama did.

We have laws. We have borders. When people bypass the legal entry ports, it should send up red flags. The illegal aliens know damn well what they are doing. When they sneak in, it's because they have been deported before or they know they will be rejected at the entry because they are not refugees or haven't taken any steps to start the legal process.

If we weren't wasting so much time and effort on dealing with illegal aliens, maybe we could allow more legal immigrants in. We need to secure the border and stop letting everyone run roughshod over us.

 

[toobfreak]

Okay, but the reason for that is is not because they want to "Wipe out White People", but because after Nixon and the Southern Strategy, the GOP decided that they were going to play on Whit

Trump even said only in strategic locations. Now that we have this problem with people using asylum to get in, we need it more than ever now. As for the older borders, those need to be torn down and rebuilt using the latest technology.

e insecurities...

This is as obvious as the nose on your face. Why would the Democrats be so hell bent on stopping the wall they would even shutdown the government for it? Why did they stop Kate's Law; a law that would have imprisoned foreign felons who returned after deportation? Why would they be fighting like hell to keep their sanctuary cities?

There is only one reason for this, because it sure as hell doesn't benefit this country--it benefits the Democrat party.

They can't tell you their real reasons, but then again, when are they ever honest with their constituents?

Oh, noes, we might actually be able to get you health insurance, and that would be awful!!! Here's the thing, if Capitalism weren't such a shit sandwich for those of us who do the work, then the GOP wouldn't need racism to sell it.

When did the Republicans ever use racism to sell capitalism? Have any examples? We've been a capitalist society for many years Joe. It's not a new concept. If you didn't get ahead in the capitalist system, it probably means you never been involved in capitalism. You get your paycheck, spend it or save some, and never invest a dime of your personal money outside of a savings account.

Trump said lots of things, most of them contradictory. The Wall is complete nonsense. It was when he first proposed and is even more so today.

Well, if the wall is nonsense, let him build it. Nothing could be better for the Democrat party than to allow Republicans to build this wall and have it be a complete failure. They would be able to rub our noses in it for decades to come. They could remind voters ever election on what a waste of money it was.

But the truth is you and I both know a wall would accomplish what we on the right want, and that is a drastic reduction in illegals and deadly narcotics coming to this country. That's one of the things the left is afraid of. The other thing is a wall is not something they could remove. It's there for good.

Sorry about the length of the post.
Democrats as well as a lot of republicans are against building a wall for very sound reasons.

First, it's not going to solve the illegal immigration problem or ever come close. Approximately half of the people in the country illegally are overstays of visas and the problem is getting worst not better. For every three border crossers in 1992, there was one overstay. But by 2012, visa overstays accounted for 58 percent of all new unauthorized immigrants. A wall not only will do nothing to stop these people from entering, but it may actually incentivize more people to stick around without authorization.

Illegal entries are going down and there is good reason to believe they will continue to do so as increasing demand for low wage workers in Mexico increases and border security continues to improve. Demand for workers in the US will eventually persuade congress to increase work permits which will increase the number of overstays and decrease illegal entries.

Second, there is no plan for the wall. Trump has build 8 different protypes but how he plans to spend 25 billion dollars is a mystery to congress and likely his own administration. For example where is he going to build the wall. Trump has said 1500 miles of the border will be wall and he also said 1,000 miles. He said he would use reinforce fencing and he said he will replace all reinforced. He said the wall will be 30 feet high and he said the wall will be 50 feet high. He's not giving congress any real details except he wants 25 billion dollars to build some kind of wall somewhere along the border. This is nuts.

Lastly, Trump has committed to building a wall fast, easy, and on schedule. He has said this over and over. Is that really possible?

70% of the US border is in the hands of private individuals. Many of the owners of larger parcels have said they will fight any attempt to seize their land. To get just 1000 miles of right away for the wall could easy take 10 years. Getting the land to build a freeway that covers 50 miles typical takes 5 to 7 years. Just a few of the obstacles are a large Indian reservation which is about half in the US and half in Mexico. The tribe has said they will fight any attempt to run a wall through the reservation. It would take an act congress to force the tribe to accept the wall thru their land. Then there's a water reservoir jointly managed by the US and Mexico providing water for irrigation and cattle on both sides of the border. Since this is covered by treaty, again it would take an act of congress to resolve the problem. Then there are environmental problems which will very likely bring lawsuits from a number of organizations. And all this is just for starters.

Then there's the untended consequences.
Many of our border patrol officers have stated a wall has one big drawback. You can't see through it. People can stand behind the wall with ropes and ladders waiting for a patrol to pass and then they're over the wall. With fences officers can observe the area for miles and spot people approaching the fence. In cities, ladders ropes and pulleys can be used to sail over a wall. And of course tunnels and simply flying over the wall are real possibilities.

Until the first fence was built in 1990, workers could circulate freely across the border, coming to harvest crops during the summer and then returning home in the winter. They crossed with a goal of bettering their lives south of the border, not to live in US. Prior to 1980 we had a relatively small permanent population of illegal immigrants compared to today. However, as fencing and border patrols increased, crossing became more difficult so once people crossed they stayed longer. If we actually complete a wall and it is really difficult to cross, it seem likely that those who come into the country will be here to stay.

Lastly, Trump will have about 2 years left on his term to build his wall which would be virtually impossible even to complete a small portion. Maybe he would be re-elected but maybe not. Given that republicans have never been very supported of the wall and democrats would do there best to tear it down as soon as they got control of congress, does this project really make sense? Whenever, the country has gone into a major project with cost in the many billions lasting many years, we have always had strong support from at least one party and at least acceptance from the other and generally good support from the public. This project has none of the above.
Why the Wall Won't Work

Approximately half of the people in the country illegally are overstays of visas: Irrelevant. That is just another issue to be dealt with separately.

Illegal entries are going down and there is good reason to believe they will continue to do so: Irrelevant. It still will never stop and one must control one's borders.

Second, there is no plan for the wall: Not quite true, just that there are many options being left open pending getting closer to Congress taking serious action to fund it.

70% of the US border is in the hands of private individuals: Irrelevant. No one owns parts of the border and it doesn't take that much land to erect a wall. It must be done.

A wall has one big drawback. You can't see through it: Irrelevant. Some wall designs can be seen through and there are electronic cameras.

The rest of your argument hinges on the fact that it has been hard to get started with a lot of resistance and obstacles, so why bother? Bottom line, the wall must be built and it will be built. America wants and needs it. The only thing stopping the wall from being a reality today is the perpetual inertia of Congress to ever commit to doing ANYTHING because half the country wants one thing and the other half wants another, so no matter WHAT YOU DO, you're going to piss off people, and all those jackels ever think about is their own political futures because they want to retire rich senators with massive benefits and don't ever want to return to the real world where people WORK for a living!

In a way, our Congress and especially Senate are WORSE than the f----king illegal aliens themselves. They never go away, are hugely expensive, and give little in return.

 

[JoeB131]

Which is why my stance is that the Democrat party became the anti-white party. And who other than a stupid F would support a party that wants to make them a minority?

Because I don't see myself in terms of race identity. I see myself in terms of class identity. And the Republicans are not on the side of working people.

The left is scared to death of a wall and with good reason: because it would work. While it may not keep out everybody, it will keep out a good portion of them, just like our drug laws don't keep everybody off of drugs, or our rape and murder laws don't completely stop the crimes. However laws and deterrents control those actions and bring them to a minimum.

No, the wall is stupid because it won't work. People will just go over, under or around it like they are doing to fences now. And when we have bridges and schools falling down all over the country, we shouldn't be wasting money on a monument to remind us what an asshole Trump is.

I mean, don't be stupid. If the D's actually thought the wall would be a complete failure, why not let Republicans have their wall? If it did fail (as the Democrats lie about) they would be able to rub our noses in it for decades to come. They could remind voters every election like we are doing with Commie Care.

Because it will cost a lot of money we could spend on other things, and again, it shows a bad image. The Berlin Wall disappeared a long time ago, but everyone remembers what a horrible thing it was.

No, it's kind of on the anti-American losers who just want to drag people into this country for power, and to hell with the Americans. Forget about the billions we spend catering to these people. Forget about the income lost. Forget about the crime they bring like MS-13. Forget about the tens of millions of American dollars they send back home. It's all our problem now. It's on you (as you said).

Naw, man, it's on you because despite the obscene advantages this society gives you for being a white male, you only managed to gain ONE JOB skill in 50 years.

The people bringing these folks into the country are the other rich white people who are the ones cheating you out of a fair wage and health insurance.

That's exactly all I thought you had. Nothing. Reagan didn't do squat to unions or sending jobs overseas. Politicians don't send jobs overseas, private companies do. They do so when things here get too expensive to operate their business.

Again, Keep explaining this to you, and you keep pretending it didn't happen... oh, never mind.

Keep blaming the darkies for your misery, dude. that's what you do best.

They are the ones who pay into the program that others get because they didn't collect. It's how these Ponzi schemes exist for a period of time. Those working white people contribute to those programs, and when they die, it supports the part of the unpaid portion that living white people live on.

well, let's look at that. Widows get their payments if they die. Before Ronnie Ray-Gun reformed social security, if you were a college age kid whose parents died (like mine did when I was in college), you got a payment as well. But got to pay for those tax breaks for rich people.

Illegals never get deported, abortion never gets banned, gays can get married, but the Rich ALWAYS get their tax breaks.

 

[JoeB131]

I think it had something to do with wages not keeping up with inflation.

I thought it was because you were a white trash loser who hasn't applied himself in 25 years.

 

[JoeB131]

The rest of your argument hinges on the fact that it has been hard to get started with a lot of resistance and obstacles, so why bother? Bottom line, the wall must be built and it will be built. America wants and needs it.

Um, no, Most Americans are against a wall. Most Americans support DACA.

Most Americans support DACA, but oppose border wall - CBS News poll

 

[danielpalos]

The rich earned their wealth? Are you that stupid? The Walton’s earned nothing. Sam Walton earned their wealth. The Waltons sit on their asses and collect dividends off the work if others.

The rich have a tax code that keeps wealth flowing to the top. They have labour laws which allow them to deny health care or benefits to workers, and to pay them so little their workers need welfare to supplement their incomes.

They appoint a burger flipper as “manager” so they can work him/her 60 hours a week without paying overtime.

Other countries put their people first. America puts their corporations first, and the wealthy second. Working men and women, who make up the vast majority of your population are denigrated, abused and paid the least amount possible.

Envy is a bitch.

Stop whining about a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, right wingers.

Funny how lefties always settle for a minimum, even if/when minimum is increased.

even funnier how the right wing even envies a minimum wage enough to whine about the cost.

The only minimum wage minimum I envy is zero. That's about what your labor real value is.

a negative number for those who have, nothing but fallacy?

 

[danielpalos]

The Obama administration placed nearly 90,000 children with a sponsor, after they were detained at the border without a legal guardian. The only time children split from their family under Obama was if the adult was suspected of not being a guardian, had an outstanding warrant, or federal agents suspected the adult of another serious crime like trafficking or smuggling.

The Trump administration policy was to separate all children from their parents with no exceptions and if there had not been the outcry from the public and pressure from congress he would still be doing it. No law compelled him to do it. He did as deterrent and to speed up deportations. His actions were so deplorable that even his wife and daughter spoke out against it.

Not real news: The truth about volcanic gems, and immigrant kids placed into care under Obama

You're parroting Schumer's talking points that President can solve the problem with his pen. Sure he can, under the Section 212F of INA, President have full authority to shut down all immigration when he deems it of national interest. Just so you know and you don't complain about it later.

Now, let's talk about what you said: "No law compelled him to do it."

Back in 1997, there was law where they agree that we cannot detain unaccompanied children. Now, have you heard of Barry appointee district judge Dolly Gee? Not so long ago, in June 2016 she applied the 1997 agreement of not detaining unaccompanied children to all children, including when they cross the border illegally with their parents. You lefties are simply ignoring the law and going solely by the interpretation of the law from one leftist district judge.

The fact is, what president is doing is completely within a law. You lefties and your media are saying there is no such law and having meltdown over it. What you pretty much "forced" Trump to sign is gonna hit you in the ass. Yeah, you may celebrate the "victory", but it's not going to last. What's going to happen is, if Trump can't separate the families while they're being processed, he'll keep them together and deport them together before 20 days of legally being detained expire.

I know you lefties don't care about sovereignty of this country, but there are plenty of us who does including the president. He can stop all the immigration into the country, family based, employment based etc. He can reject every asylum at the border and redirect all asylum claims to be filed in US Embassies. You lefties surely don't want that, but you just might get it.

"The exclusion of aliens is a fundamental act of sovereignty. The right to do so stems not alone from legislative power, but is inherent in the executive power to control the foreign affairs of the nation." - Knauff v. Shaughnessy, 338 U.S. 537 (1950)

should we start with, "misuse of process"? 10USC246 has precedent whenever the "security of our free States", is involved.

So how many joined the armed forces to ensure the security of the free state?

I got one for you.

8 U.S.C. §1182(f) of the U.S. Code confers on the president the power to turn away immigrants at the border. It provides:

Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.

do we have alleged Wars on crime, drugs, and terror or not, right wingers.

10USC246 takes, State security and Union security, precedence.

Over the constitution? Nope.

Our Second Amendment is part of our Constitution.

 

[Pop23]

Just a quick observation:

Trump was demonized when he called the countries these illegals are fleeing from "Shitholes"

Now the left are justifying the Invasion from these Countries because they are just wanting to leave these "Shitholes".

You can't make this shit up folks, you really can't!

 

[danielpalos]

Just a quick observation:

Trump was demonized when he called the countries these illegals are fleeing from "Shitholes"

Now the left are justifying the Invasion from these Countries because they are just wanting to leave these "Shitholes".

You can't make this shit up folks, you really can't!

It is our public policies that are helping to create, not solve the problem.

 

[Slyhunter]

I think it had something to do with wages not keeping up with inflation.

I thought it was because you were a white trash loser who hasn't applied himself in 25 years.

That would hurt if I had emotions like other people. The cure for Bipolar disorder left me apathetic.