What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[kaz]

Mirror

Seriously, does it make sense to you formulate immigration policy based on temporary, partisan politics?

Begging the question

Mirror

Dblack. I have nothing.

I've noticed.

Now you're playground. You continue to spiral down

 

[kaz]

FALSE! A person illegally crossing the border may or may not have been adjudicated as such, but he's illegal the second he crosses that border without inspection. The court decision is merely a confirmation of that fact.

I mentioned 17 negative harms of immigration. You mentioned zero "benefits" you claim there are.

Immigrant is a person who has gone an immigration process, by the proper authorities.

As for the harms, except for # 14 (cultural erosion), they exist regardless of "absorption into our culture " (aka assimilation). And with regard to cultural erosion, there doesn't seem to be much of it (like the thugs in San Jose, CA, who chased and attcked Trump rallygoers, while waving Mexican flags)

Nope, a person is not guilty of any illegal act without a court ruling. That ruling can take the form of agreeing to deportation and waving a hearing or trial.

The days when Latinos were thrown in the back of a truck and dumped across the boarder with no due process aren't here yet, but it's on the way.

Only citizens are entitled to due process

Anyone living in the U.S. — legally or not — has constitutional rights, including the right to equal protection of the law and that of due process (fair treatment in the judicial system). Immigration officers are not required nor do they advise detainees of their rights so they often assume they have none. That's why most detainees do not have lawyers and wave their rights and accept deportation which of course is really dumb.
What Constitutional Rights Do Undocumented Immigrants Have When on American Soil? - Illegal Immigration - ProCon.org

See last post

Link?

It's not in the Constitution. The Constitution is "We the People," not "We the People and anyone who legally or illegally resides on our territory." Game, set and match.

As for the idiocy of what you're arguing, name another country that grants the rights of citizens to foreigners, much less ones there illegally ...

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

However, the best option is releasing the parents on their own recognizance with monitoring which has proved very effective. It lowers cost and keeps the family together. Of course that's not going to happen because Trump wants to use the system to punish the parents which was never the intent of our immigration laws.

Maybe, but letting them roam around the country with an ankle bracelet after they broke our laws is rewarding them. You want to stop illegal immigration by not offering a deterrent. Trust me, that doesn't and will never work.

 

[kaz]

However, the best option is releasing the parents on their own recognizance with monitoring which has proved very effective. It lowers cost and keeps the family together. Of course that's not going to happen because Trump wants to use the system to punish the parents which was never the intent of our immigration laws.

Maybe, but letting them roam around the country with an ankle bracelet after they broke our laws is rewarding them. You want to stop illegal immigration by not offering a deterrent. Trust me, that doesn't and will never work.

Technically he agrees with you that it won't work, which is why he wants to do that

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Undocumented Immigrant is the correct term because:

• Undocumented refers to the lack of genuine documentation of the right to be in a country. The presence of a person in a country is not illegal until a court makes that decision.
• The word immigrant means a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country with or without property documentation.

Having undocumented immigrants in the country does have some undeniably negative effects which the left would like to ignore. Likewise there are benefits that the right prefers to ignore. However, we should question how much of the negative effects are due to the lack of upward mobility and lack of absorption into our culture which is a direct result of being undocumented. Without upward mobility and absorption, undocumented immigrants are frozen into a subculture that is unhealthy for them and the nation.

FALSE! A person illegally crossing the border may or may not have been adjudicated as such, but he's illegal the second he crosses that border without inspection. The court decision is merely a confirmation of that fact.

I mentioned 17 negative harms of immigration. You mentioned zero "benefits" you claim there are.

Immigrant is a person who has gone an immigration process, by the proper authorities.

As for the harms, except for # 14 (cultural erosion), they exist regardless of "absorption into our culture " (aka assimilation). And with regard to cultural erosion, there doesn't seem to be much of it (like the thugs in San Jose, CA, who chased and attcked Trump rallygoers, while waving Mexican flags)

Nope, a person is not guilty of any illegal act without a court ruling. That ruling can take the form of agreeing to deportation and waving a hearing or trial.

The days when Latinos were thrown in the back of a truck and dumped across the boarder with no due process aren't here yet, but it's on the way.

We can only hope.

 

[Godboy]

Taking young children away from their parents should be a last resort.

You mean like when their parents go to jail for commiting a crime? Surely you wouldn't expect us to be heartless enough to put young children in adult prisons.

No, I mean exactly what I said. Taking young children away from their parent should be a last resort.

So you think kids should go to jail with their parents? Explain your weird position.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And in the meantime we're trying to stop the endless flow in and you're fighting us on that.

Your fight is with reality. People go where the work is. Governments can impede human migration, temporarily and at great cost, but ultimately the "endless flow" will ignore your laws and your walls. The fact is, we're inviting them here. We want them here. We're paying them to be here.

And you get more Democrat voters to boot!

That's happening regardless. Millennials are turning out to be quite liberal and the eldest most conservative among us are dying off.

That must be true because I've been hearing that for over 30 years now.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And in the meantime we're trying to stop the endless flow in and you're fighting us on that.

Your fight is with reality. People go where the work is. Governments can impede human migration, temporarily and at great cost, but ultimately the "endless flow" will ignore your laws and your walls. The fact is, we're inviting them here. We want them here. We're paying them to be here.

Only some of them; those who have something to offer this country. But unskilled labor generally undercuts the wages of our labor and that's not good for our people. This is especially true in the black community because very often blacks take on lower paying jobs.

 

[kaz]

And in the meantime we're trying to stop the endless flow in and you're fighting us on that.

Your fight is with reality. People go where the work is. Governments can impede human migration, temporarily and at great cost, but ultimately the "endless flow" will ignore your laws and your walls. The fact is, we're inviting them here. We want them here. We're paying them to be here.

Only some of them; those who have something to offer this country. But unskilled labor generally undercuts the wages of our labor and that's not good for our people. This is especially true in the black community because very often blacks take on lower paying jobs.

Yep, the Democrat Party importing millions of poor criminals from third world shit hole countries is as stupid an idea as it sounds.

dblack is all over it ...

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The truth is the illegals fulfill a role in capitalism it's called cheap labor, but yet idiots seem to think only one party allows the illegals to stay when over forty years since the invaders were allowed to stay it has been both parties that have facilitated the problem and the rich which save money.

This may be true, but now Republicans are taking notice of what their constituents want, and it's not invaders taking our jobs. Every other candidate in the primary besides Trump had very weak answers for our immigration problem. Only one stood out against illegal immigrants, and that was Donald Trump.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And in the meantime we're trying to stop the endless flow in and you're fighting us on that.

Your fight is with reality. People go where the work is. Governments can impede human migration, temporarily and at great cost, but ultimately the "endless flow" will ignore your laws and your walls. The fact is, we're inviting them here. We want them here. We're paying them to be here.

Only some of them; those who have something to offer this country. But unskilled labor generally undercuts the wages of our labor and that's not good for our people. This is especially true in the black community because very often blacks take on lower paying jobs.

Yep, the Democrat Party importing millions of poor criminals from third world shit hole countries is as stupid an idea as it sounds.

dblack is all over it ...

Assuming that Dblack is black, perhaps that's something he should think about. You don't help your own people by allowing them to be pushed to the side for strangers in this country. Trump is in charge, illegal immigration is down, and black unemployment is the lowest it's been since records of black employment were kept.

Coincidence? Maybe, but I would think that it wasn't just a fluke.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Taking young children away from their parents should be a last resort.

You mean like when their parents go to jail for commiting a crime? Surely you wouldn't expect us to be heartless enough to put young children in adult prisons.

No, I mean exactly what I said. Taking young children away from their parent should be a last resort.

So you think kids should go to jail with their parents? Explain your weird position.

They think family detention centers are just a spiffy and wonderful and humane solution . . . now. Of course, two-three years ago, they were wailing in outrage about how awful they were, and insisting that accompanied minors should fall under the jurisdiction of the Flores Settlement, which is why they are now placed in the custody of HHS.

 

[Kondor3]

What human cost is acceptable in controlling Illegal Immigration?

In other words, what human cost is acceptable in protecting our national borders and enforcing our sovereignty over our own soil?

The quantitative answer is: as many intruder lives and ruinous deportations as may be required to achieve those paramount national strategic outcomes.

Next slide, please.

 

[Moonglow]

The truth is the illegals fulfill a role in capitalism it's called cheap labor, but yet idiots seem to think only one party allows the illegals to stay when over forty years since the invaders were allowed to stay it has been both parties that have facilitated the problem and the rich which save money.

This may be true, but now Republicans are taking notice of what their constituents want, and it's not invaders taking our jobs. Every other candidate in the primary besides Trump had very weak answers for our immigration problem. Only one stood out against illegal immigrants, and that was Donald Trump.

Donald Trump is not the GOP, and there are Republicans who don't like his immigration policy. And the illegals, are still here, so Trump isn't doing enough.

 

[Moonglow]

What human cost is acceptable in controlling Illegal Immigration?

In other words, what human cost is acceptable in protecting our national borders and enforcing our sovereignty over our own soil?

The quantitative answer is: as many intruder lives and ruinous deportations as may be required to achieve those paramount national strategic outcomes.

Next slide, please.

Or at least kill three million Native Americans to claim the country is sovereign over all peoples.

 

[eagle1462010]

The truth is the illegals fulfill a role in capitalism it's called cheap labor, but yet idiots seem to think only one party allows the illegals to stay when over forty years since the invaders were allowed to stay it has been both parties that have facilitated the problem and the rich which save money.

This may be true, but now Republicans are taking notice of what their constituents want, and it's not invaders taking our jobs. Every other candidate in the primary besides Trump had very weak answers for our immigration problem. Only one stood out against illegal immigrants, and that was Donald Trump.

Donald Trump is not the GOP, and there are Republicans who don't like his immigration policy. And the illegals, are still here, so Trump isn't doing enough.

And what legislation have they placed on his desk to sign.....................Has he rejected their bills placed on his desk...................................

They have no reason to complain.

 

[Moonglow]

The truth is the illegals fulfill a role in capitalism it's called cheap labor, but yet idiots seem to think only one party allows the illegals to stay when over forty years since the invaders were allowed to stay it has been both parties that have facilitated the problem and the rich which save money.

This may be true, but now Republicans are taking notice of what their constituents want, and it's not invaders taking our jobs. Every other candidate in the primary besides Trump had very weak answers for our immigration problem. Only one stood out against illegal immigrants, and that was Donald Trump.

Donald Trump is not the GOP, and there are Republicans who don't like his immigration policy. And the illegals, are still here, so Trump isn't doing enough.

And what legislation have they placed on his desk to sign.....................Has he rejected their bills placed on his desk...................................

They have no reason to complain.

No legislation of existing law has been put on his desk, how intriguing.

 

[Flopper]

Undocumented Immigrant is the correct term because:

• Undocumented refers to the lack of genuine documentation of the right to be in a country. The presence of a person in a country is not illegal until a court makes that decision.
• The word immigrant means a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country with or without property documentation.

Having undocumented immigrants in the country does have some undeniably negative effects which the left would like to ignore. Likewise there are benefits that the right prefers to ignore. However, we should question how much of the negative effects are due to the lack of upward mobility and lack of absorption into our culture which is a direct result of being undocumented. Without upward mobility and absorption, undocumented immigrants are frozen into a subculture that is unhealthy for them and the nation.

FALSE! A person illegally crossing the border may or may not have been adjudicated as such, but he's illegal the second he crosses that border without inspection. The court decision is merely a confirmation of that fact.

I mentioned 17 negative harms of immigration. You mentioned zero "benefits" you claim there are.

Immigrant is a person who has gone an immigration process, by the proper authorities.

As for the harms, except for # 14 (cultural erosion), they exist regardless of "absorption into our culture " (aka assimilation). And with regard to cultural erosion, there doesn't seem to be much of it (like the thugs in San Jose, CA, who chased and attcked Trump rallygoers, while waving Mexican flags)

Nope, a person is not guilty of any illegal act without a court ruling. That ruling can take the form of agreeing to deportation and waving a hearing or trial.

The days when Latinos were thrown in the back of a truck and dumped across the boarder with no due process aren't here yet, but it's on the way.

There's a difference between "a person is not guilty" and "the act is not illegal". Murder is always illegal, and requires no court ruling to be illegal; I personally am not guilty of murder until a court finds me so. But even if the court can't find sufficient evidence, if I actually DID kill someone, I'm still a murderer.

Likewise, entering this country without permission is always illegal. Thus, the person who enters this country without proper permission is always an illegal immigrant. The fact that they haven't been convicted of it yet doesn't mean it didn't happen, or that it wasn't against the law.

You're running up against one of the classic leftist stupidities: you have no morality, so you think legality can replace it.

And yes, people who are accused of crimes have always had the option to waive (not "wave", dimwit) a trial and simply plead guilty. No one can make them do it; it is THEIR choice, THEIR right.

If you see a person running down the street holding a gun, a bag of money, and a store owner is screaming, "I've been robbed", it's likely that you would call that person a robber. A Latino boy caught running away from the border that doesn't have any identification would probably lead you to believe that he's an illegal alien. In both cases you woulld probably be right but in the legal sense, neither is guilty of anything until the court says so. That's why we refer to the robber as the accused and the boy as an undocumented immigrant. No matter how guilty a person may look, there is always the presumption of innocent in America. You are are not guilty in the eyes of the law until the judge says so. What you call the person is immaterial.

 

[eagle1462010]

The truth is the illegals fulfill a role in capitalism it's called cheap labor, but yet idiots seem to think only one party allows the illegals to stay when over forty years since the invaders were allowed to stay it has been both parties that have facilitated the problem and the rich which save money.

This may be true, but now Republicans are taking notice of what their constituents want, and it's not invaders taking our jobs. Every other candidate in the primary besides Trump had very weak answers for our immigration problem. Only one stood out against illegal immigrants, and that was Donald Trump.

Donald Trump is not the GOP, and there are Republicans who don't like his immigration policy. And the illegals, are still here, so Trump isn't doing enough.

And what legislation have they placed on his desk to sign.....................Has he rejected their bills placed on his desk...................................

They have no reason to complain.

No legislation of existing law has been put on his desk, how intriguing.

Well show me...............the bill...........show me where he vetoed any of their legislation...............

You said they have issues with him.........show where he ditched them..........vetoed their legislation on this issue.

 

[Moonglow]

The truth is the illegals fulfill a role in capitalism it's called cheap labor, but yet idiots seem to think only one party allows the illegals to stay when over forty years since the invaders were allowed to stay it has been both parties that have facilitated the problem and the rich which save money.

This may be true, but now Republicans are taking notice of what their constituents want, and it's not invaders taking our jobs. Every other candidate in the primary besides Trump had very weak answers for our immigration problem. Only one stood out against illegal immigrants, and that was Donald Trump.

Donald Trump is not the GOP, and there are Republicans who don't like his immigration policy. And the illegals, are still here, so Trump isn't doing enough.

And what legislation have they placed on his desk to sign.....................Has he rejected their bills placed on his desk...................................

They have no reason to complain.

No legislation of existing law has been put on his desk, how intriguing.

Well show me...............the bill...........show me where he vetoed any of their legislation...............

You said they have issues with him.........show where he ditched them..........vetoed their legislation on this issue.

There is and was no legislation put before him, do you folks need to borrow my reading glasses? The laws already exist.