What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[Flopper]

Link?

It's not in the Constitution. The Constitution is "We the People," not "We the People and anyone who legally or illegally resides on our territory." Game, set and match.

As for the idiocy of what you're arguing, name another country that grants the rights of citizens to foreigners, much less ones there illegally ...

That's your opinion and a lot of people share it. However the US Supreme Court does not. The Court settled the issue well over a century ago. But even before the court laid the issue to rest, a principal author of the Constitution, James Madison, the fourth president of the United States, wrote: "that as they [aliens], owe, on the one hand, a temporary obedience, they are entitled, in return, to their [constitutional] protection and advantage."

Yes, illegal aliens have constitutional rights

And if Madison was alive today to see what's going on, do you really believe he would continue to hold that opinion?

Wow. That's exactly the same argument, liberal make so often in defending the "the living constitution" when conservatives drag out the federalist papers and quotes of Jefferson or Madison.

I think if Madison was alive today, I certainly think he would agree that anyone charged with a crime regardless who they are should have constitutional rights. Without constitution rights there would be no guaranteed of a fair trial or hearing. The defendant could be denied legal council or a jury trial. Without the protection of the 5th amendment the person could be tried in absentia, never given the charges or the right to defend himself.

If you're here illegally, there is nothing to defend. You haven't passed Go

Finally, you wrote something that's worth discussing. If you are simply here illegally then you have overstayed your visa. The number of people that overstay visas is greater than the number entering the country illegally. Yet it gets very little attention from the media.

Overstaying a visa is a civil violation that carries no jail time or fines, only deportation which is referred to as an adjustment in immigration status, not a penalty. The offense is adjudicated in immigration court, a civil court. In reality, the only defense is mitigating circumstances which there are many that may result in delays in deportation and often voluntary removal with no barring of re-enter.

If you really support tougher laws against illegal immigration, then tracking visa holders needs to change. There is no real tracking system for visa holders and work permits. They are told to keep immigration informed of changes of address. However, half do not, probably because there is no penalty for not doing so. What needs to happen is there should be a penalty for not keeping immigration informed of current addresses and there needs to be a tracking system developed.

Overstaying visas is as much of a problem as illegal entry because those that enter the country illegally are very likely to leave within a year or so. However, people that overstay visas often become permanent undocumented residents.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Do you really think if Madison were alive today, he would support constitutional rights of captured terrorists that want to kill as many Americans as they could?

No one defends the rights of terrorists. We defend the rights of people accused of being terrorists. Because any of us can be accused.

If you are an American, yes you have rights. But I don't believe our founders (if alive today) would approve of us giving overseas terrorists constitutional rights in our country which they want to end.

They has have written rather extensively on rights of the accused. I suggest you read what they have to save.

You're arguing that only certain people should have rights in a court of law. Think about what that really means. If the accused does not have rights, then there can be no fair trial. Without fair trials, neither victims nor the accused will have confidence that justice will be done. Without fair trials, trust in government and the rule of law collapses.

The only people that should have any constitutional rights are foreigners who are welcome here and of course any American. If you come here illegally, you should not have constitutional rights and don't tell me what the founders thought because there were no restrictions on immigrants at the time. That came later.

These people are using our laws to game the system. Of course they have no fear of coming here. Look how big of a deal we are making by just taking their children away while they are being processed. There people are laughing at our stupidity. Try going into their countries illegally and see what rights you get there.

 

[kaz]

Finally, you wrote something that's worth discussing. If you are simply here illegally then you have overstayed your visa. The number of people that overstay visas is greater than the number entering the country illegally. Yet it gets very little attention from the media.

The problem with making up your stats is how often you're wrong, and you're wrong. There are a lot of VISA overstays, but no, it's not more than illegal border crossings, it's less

Overstaying a visa is a civil violation that carries no jail time or fines, only deportation which is referred to as an adjustment in immigration status, not a penalty. The offense is adjudicated in immigration court, a civil court. In reality, the only defense is mitigating circumstances which there are many that may result in delays in deportation and often voluntary removal with no barring of re-enter.

If you really support tougher laws against illegal immigration, then tracking visa holders needs to change. There is no real tracking system for visa holders and work permits. They are told to keep immigration informed of changes of address. However, half do not, probably because there is no penalty for not doing so. What needs to happen is there should be a penalty for not keeping immigration informed of current addresses and there needs to be a tracking system developed.

Overstaying visas is as much of a problem as illegal entry because those that enter the country illegally are very likely to leave within a year or so. However, people that overstay visas often become permanent undocumented residents.

Everyone who supports a wall supports also tougening laws on Visa overstays. The wall is #1 priority for two reasons. The second reason is the part where you're wrong and the majority of illegal aliens cross the border illegally. The biggest one is that they have at least been checked out and we knew when they came in who they were and were able to check out their history, including their criminal history

 

[Kondor3]

In 2016, there were 740,000 visa overstays.

740,000 visa overstays / 11,000,000 illegal aliens = visa overstays = 6.7% of the total illegal alien problem.

Hardly "as much of a problem as illegal entry" .

But hammering visa overstays is on the front-burner, too... not to worry.

Besides... it's time to turn "visa overstays" into a criminal offense, as well.

Win-Win.

----------------------

Bottom line...

If you're coming to America with our express prior consent, then, "Welcome neighbor, glad to have you here."

If you've come to America without our express prior consent, then, "Get the phukk out of our country."

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Everyone who supports a wall supports also tougening laws on Visa overstays. The wall is #1 priority for two reasons. The second reason is the part where you're wrong and the majority of illegal aliens cross the border illegally. The biggest one is that they have at least been checked out and we knew when they came in who they were and were able to check out their history, including their criminal history

Plus when one overstays their VISA, they don't bring in drugs at the same time.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Nearly Half of Illegal Immigrants Overstay Visas

Finally, you wrote something that's worth discussing. If you are simply here illegally then you have overstayed your visa. The number of people that overstay visas is greater than the number entering the country illegally. Yet it gets very little attention from the media.

The problem with making up your stats is how often you're wrong, and you're wrong. There are a lot of VISA overstays, but no, it's not more than illegal border crossings, it's less

Overstaying a visa is a civil violation that carries no jail time or fines, only deportation which is referred to as an adjustment in immigration status, not a penalty. The offense is adjudicated in immigration court, a civil court. In reality, the only defense is mitigating circumstances which there are many that may result in delays in deportation and often voluntary removal with no barring of re-enter.

If you really support tougher laws against illegal immigration, then tracking visa holders needs to change. There is no real tracking system for visa holders and work permits. They are told to keep immigration informed of changes of address. However, half do not, probably because there is no penalty for not doing so. What needs to happen is there should be a penalty for not keeping immigration informed of current addresses and there needs to be a tracking system developed.

Overstaying visas is as much of a problem as illegal entry because those that enter the country illegally are very likely to leave within a year or so. However, people that overstay visas often become permanent undocumented residents.

Everyone who supports a wall supports also tougening laws on Visa overstays. The wall is #1 priority for two reasons. The second reason is the part where you're wrong and the majority of illegal aliens cross the border illegally. The biggest one is that they have at least been checked out and we knew when they came in who they were and were able to check out their history, including their criminal history

I assume that Kaz and Condor have a credible source they can link about the % of illegals that overstayed their visas, because I have two links saying that 40% to 45% are illegal because of overstaying their visas.

Nearly Half of Illegal Immigrants Overstay Visas

FACT CHECK: Did 40 Percent Of All Illegal Immigrants Overstay Legal Visas?

 

[kaz]

Nearly Half of Illegal Immigrants Overstay Visas

Finally, you wrote something that's worth discussing. If you are simply here illegally then you have overstayed your visa. The number of people that overstay visas is greater than the number entering the country illegally. Yet it gets very little attention from the media.

The problem with making up your stats is how often you're wrong, and you're wrong. There are a lot of VISA overstays, but no, it's not more than illegal border crossings, it's less

Overstaying a visa is a civil violation that carries no jail time or fines, only deportation which is referred to as an adjustment in immigration status, not a penalty. The offense is adjudicated in immigration court, a civil court. In reality, the only defense is mitigating circumstances which there are many that may result in delays in deportation and often voluntary removal with no barring of re-enter.

If you really support tougher laws against illegal immigration, then tracking visa holders needs to change. There is no real tracking system for visa holders and work permits. They are told to keep immigration informed of changes of address. However, half do not, probably because there is no penalty for not doing so. What needs to happen is there should be a penalty for not keeping immigration informed of current addresses and there needs to be a tracking system developed.

Overstaying visas is as much of a problem as illegal entry because those that enter the country illegally are very likely to leave within a year or so. However, people that overstay visas often become permanent undocumented residents.

Everyone who supports a wall supports also tougening laws on Visa overstays. The wall is #1 priority for two reasons. The second reason is the part where you're wrong and the majority of illegal aliens cross the border illegally. The biggest one is that they have at least been checked out and we knew when they came in who they were and were able to check out their history, including their criminal history

I assume that Kaz and Condor have a credible source they can link about the % of illegals that overstayed their visas, because I have two links saying that 40% to 45% are illegal because of overstaying their visas.

Nearly Half of Illegal Immigrants Overstay Visas

FACT CHECK: Did 40 Percent Of All Illegal Immigrants Overstay Legal Visas?

First of all, it was Flopper's claim that most illegal aliens overstay their visas. I said he's wrong. I like how you skim over his making the original claim and tell me to prove him wrong.

Second, my proof that Flopper is wrong is ... your links. 40-45% is LESS than half, Holmes. Not the sharpest enchilada in the garage, are you? Seriously? You thought 40-45% is the majority? Wow.

And note that you two are establishing that we're getting almost 2 million illegal aliens a year. Wow, that's scary

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Nearly Half of Illegal Immigrants Overstay Visas

Finally, you wrote something that's worth discussing. If you are simply here illegally then you have overstayed your visa. The number of people that overstay visas is greater than the number entering the country illegally. Yet it gets very little attention from the media.

The problem with making up your stats is how often you're wrong, and you're wrong. There are a lot of VISA overstays, but no, it's not more than illegal border crossings, it's less

Overstaying a visa is a civil violation that carries no jail time or fines, only deportation which is referred to as an adjustment in immigration status, not a penalty. The offense is adjudicated in immigration court, a civil court. In reality, the only defense is mitigating circumstances which there are many that may result in delays in deportation and often voluntary removal with no barring of re-enter.

If you really support tougher laws against illegal immigration, then tracking visa holders needs to change. There is no real tracking system for visa holders and work permits. They are told to keep immigration informed of changes of address. However, half do not, probably because there is no penalty for not doing so. What needs to happen is there should be a penalty for not keeping immigration informed of current addresses and there needs to be a tracking system developed.

Overstaying visas is as much of a problem as illegal entry because those that enter the country illegally are very likely to leave within a year or so. However, people that overstay visas often become permanent undocumented residents.

Everyone who supports a wall supports also tougening laws on Visa overstays. The wall is #1 priority for two reasons. The second reason is the part where you're wrong and the majority of illegal aliens cross the border illegally. The biggest one is that they have at least been checked out and we knew when they came in who they were and were able to check out their history, including their criminal history

I assume that Kaz and Condor have a credible source they can link about the % of illegals that overstayed their visas, because I have two links saying that 40% to 45% are illegal because of overstaying their visas.

Nearly Half of Illegal Immigrants Overstay Visas

FACT CHECK: Did 40 Percent Of All Illegal Immigrants Overstay Legal Visas?

In 2016, the Department of Homeland Security estimated that out of 45 million U.S. arrivals by air and sea whose tourist or business visas expired in fiscal year 2015, about 416,500 people remained in the country in 2016.

However, that data only covers a small slice of the undocumented population, capturing one year of data and omitting people who arrived via land. Also, the report did not provide a breakdown by state.

In 2006, the Pew Research Center estimated that as much as "45 percent of the total unauthorized migrant population entered the country with visas that allowed them to visit or reside in the U.S. for a limited amount of time."

That report relied on a 1997 study from the Immigration and Naturalization Service, which concluded that in 1996, 41 percent of illegal immigrants had entered the United States legally.

Did most of Florida undocumented immigrants overstay visas?

 

[Kondor3]

Nearly 740,000 foreigners overstayed visas last year, U.S. officials say
CBS/AP - May 23, 2017

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/overstayed-visas-increase-department-homeland-security/

 

[Vandalshandle]

Nearly Half of Illegal Immigrants Overstay Visas

Finally, you wrote something that's worth discussing. If you are simply here illegally then you have overstayed your visa. The number of people that overstay visas is greater than the number entering the country illegally. Yet it gets very little attention from the media.

The problem with making up your stats is how often you're wrong, and you're wrong. There are a lot of VISA overstays, but no, it's not more than illegal border crossings, it's less

Overstaying a visa is a civil violation that carries no jail time or fines, only deportation which is referred to as an adjustment in immigration status, not a penalty. The offense is adjudicated in immigration court, a civil court. In reality, the only defense is mitigating circumstances which there are many that may result in delays in deportation and often voluntary removal with no barring of re-enter.

If you really support tougher laws against illegal immigration, then tracking visa holders needs to change. There is no real tracking system for visa holders and work permits. They are told to keep immigration informed of changes of address. However, half do not, probably because there is no penalty for not doing so. What needs to happen is there should be a penalty for not keeping immigration informed of current addresses and there needs to be a tracking system developed.

Overstaying visas is as much of a problem as illegal entry because those that enter the country illegally are very likely to leave within a year or so. However, people that overstay visas often become permanent undocumented residents.

Everyone who supports a wall supports also tougening laws on Visa overstays. The wall is #1 priority for two reasons. The second reason is the part where you're wrong and the majority of illegal aliens cross the border illegally. The biggest one is that they have at least been checked out and we knew when they came in who they were and were able to check out their history, including their criminal history

I assume that Kaz and Condor have a credible source they can link about the % of illegals that overstayed their visas, because I have two links saying that 40% to 45% are illegal because of overstaying their visas.

Nearly Half of Illegal Immigrants Overstay Visas

FACT CHECK: Did 40 Percent Of All Illegal Immigrants Overstay Legal Visas?

First of all, it was Flopper's claim that most illegal aliens overstay their visas. I said he's wrong. I like how you skim over his making the original claim and tell me to prove him wrong.

Second, my proof that Flopper is wrong is ... your links. 40-45% is LESS than half, Holmes. Not the sharpest enchilada in the garage, are you? Seriously? You thought 40-45% is the majority? Wow.

And note that you two are establishing that we're getting almost 2 million illegal aliens a year. Wow, that's scary

I would suggest that 40% to 45% is significant, even though you implied that it was not. As to Condor's claim that only 6.7% of illegals overstayed their visa's, well, that is so absurd that I won't even go there. Condor needs a remedial math course. 740,000 overstayed visa per year divided by total illegals here is a math fallacy. The 740,000 should be divided by the total number of illegals from all sources IN ONE YEAR. I think that Condor is a Trump University graduate.

 

[protectionist]

So you consider illegal aliens working in America are a far bigger issue than constitutional rights? Thankfully, such nonsense is shared by few Americans.

The issue of "illegal aliens working in America" (and living here) is the issue of the USA being invaded by foreign countries, occupied with millions of their people, and having those countries impose imperialist plunder upon us, as the world has never seen before.

In World War II, 400,000 Americans sacrificed their lives to prevent this from happening, and now loose screw Democrats do everything they can to promote it.

As for "constitutional rights", I see it as a major issue for Americans, not foreign invader-pillagers, = to ones that our ancestors fought and died to keep out.

 

[protectionist]

They has have written rather extensively on rights of the accused. I suggest you read what they have to save.

You're arguing that only certain people should have rights in a court of law. Think about what that really means. If the accused does not have rights, then there can be no fair trial. Without fair trials, neither victims nor the accused will have confidence that justice will be done. Without fair trials, trust in government and the rule of law collapses.

When a country is invaded by foreign masses, it is at war against its invaders. They should be declared enemy combatants. Currently, we have foreign invaders/occupiers being treated about like convenience store thieves, and given trials in civilian courts.

This is not how countries should deal with their enemies (ex. Mexico) A news reporter asked my ex Army National Guard battalion commander, how does he deal with his enemies. The Lt. Colonel said >> "In the Army, the way we deal with our enemies is simple. It can be described in just 3 words. We Kill Them."

 

[Flopper]

Do you really think if Madison were alive today, he would support constitutional rights of captured terrorists that want to kill as many Americans as they could?

No one defends the rights of terrorists. We defend the rights of people accused of being terrorists. Because any of us can be accused.

If you are an American, yes you have rights. But I don't believe our founders (if alive today) would approve of us giving overseas terrorists constitutional rights in our country which they want to end.

They has have written rather extensively on rights of the accused. I suggest you read what they have to save.

You're arguing that only certain people should have rights in a court of law. Think about what that really means. If the accused does not have rights, then there can be no fair trial. Without fair trials, neither victims nor the accused will have confidence that justice will be done. Without fair trials, trust in government and the rule of law collapses.

The only people that should have any constitutional rights are foreigners who are welcome here and of course any American. If you come here illegally, you should not have constitutional rights and don't tell me what the founders thought because there were no restrictions on immigrants at the time. That came later.

These people are using our laws to game the system. Of course they have no fear of coming here. Look how big of a deal we are making by just taking their children away while they are being processed. There people are laughing at our stupidity. Try going into their countries illegally and see what rights you get there.

From legal standpoint what you're saying doesn't make any sense at all. You say, "If you come here illegally, you should not have constitutional rights..". If a person is accused of entering the country illegally but that person disputes the claim, does that person have a right to fair trial?

 

[Flopper]

In 2016, there were 740,000 visa overstays.

740,000 visa overstays / 11,000,000 illegal aliens = visa overstays = 6.7% of the total illegal alien problem.

Hardly "as much of a problem as illegal entry" .

But hammering visa overstays is on the front-burner, too... not to worry.

Besides... it's time to turn "visa overstays" into a criminal offense, as well.

Win-Win.

----------------------

Bottom line...

If you're coming to America with our express prior consent, then, "Welcome neighbor, glad to have you here."

If you've come to America without our express prior consent, then, "Get the phukk out of our country."

739,450 people overstayed their visas in 2016.
170,000 people eluded capture and entered illegally at our southern boarder.
Almost half of all undocumented immigrants entered the country legally and most of those come by air.

Going after the number that overstayed their visa would reduce the number of undocumented immigrants a lot faster and a lot easier than tracking down those that enter the country illegally. You know who the overstays are, they constitute a very large part of the undocumented population, and you're able to track them. You know little or nothing about those that successfully crossed the boarder and if they stay below the radar, they are almost impossible to track.

Almost 740,000 visa overstays in 2016
Barely half of illegal border crossers caught, according to Homeland Security report

 

[Flopper]

Nearly Half of Illegal Immigrants Overstay Visas

Finally, you wrote something that's worth discussing. If you are simply here illegally then you have overstayed your visa. The number of people that overstay visas is greater than the number entering the country illegally. Yet it gets very little attention from the media.

The problem with making up your stats is how often you're wrong, and you're wrong. There are a lot of VISA overstays, but no, it's not more than illegal border crossings, it's less

Overstaying a visa is a civil violation that carries no jail time or fines, only deportation which is referred to as an adjustment in immigration status, not a penalty. The offense is adjudicated in immigration court, a civil court. In reality, the only defense is mitigating circumstances which there are many that may result in delays in deportation and often voluntary removal with no barring of re-enter.

If you really support tougher laws against illegal immigration, then tracking visa holders needs to change. There is no real tracking system for visa holders and work permits. They are told to keep immigration informed of changes of address. However, half do not, probably because there is no penalty for not doing so. What needs to happen is there should be a penalty for not keeping immigration informed of current addresses and there needs to be a tracking system developed.

Overstaying visas is as much of a problem as illegal entry because those that enter the country illegally are very likely to leave within a year or so. However, people that overstay visas often become permanent undocumented residents.

Everyone who supports a wall supports also tougening laws on Visa overstays. The wall is #1 priority for two reasons. The second reason is the part where you're wrong and the majority of illegal aliens cross the border illegally. The biggest one is that they have at least been checked out and we knew when they came in who they were and were able to check out their history, including their criminal history

I assume that Kaz and Condor have a credible source they can link about the % of illegals that overstayed their visas, because I have two links saying that 40% to 45% are illegal because of overstaying their visas.

Nearly Half of Illegal Immigrants Overstay Visas

FACT CHECK: Did 40 Percent Of All Illegal Immigrants Overstay Legal Visas?

In 2016, the Department of Homeland Security estimated that out of 45 million U.S. arrivals by air and sea whose tourist or business visas expired in fiscal year 2015, about 416,500 people remained in the country in 2016.

However, that data only covers a small slice of the undocumented population, capturing one year of data and omitting people who arrived via land. Also, the report did not provide a breakdown by state.

In 2006, the Pew Research Center estimated that as much as "45 percent of the total unauthorized migrant population entered the country with visas that allowed them to visit or reside in the U.S. for a limited amount of time."

That report relied on a 1997 study from the Immigration and Naturalization Service, which concluded that in 1996, 41 percent of illegal immigrants had entered the United States legally.

Did most of Florida undocumented immigrants overstay visas?

Homeland security overstay stats in a given year are equal to the number of visas that expire in that year less the number that exited the country. So when they report the number of overstays of 400,000 or 700,000, that is not a cumulative figure. It is just the number that should have left that year and didn't. So when people claim 40% to 50% of undocumented immigrants came into the country legally, (another way of saying 40% to 50% are visa overstays) it is a reasonable estimate. So if the number of undocumented immigrates is 11 million, then the number due to Visa overstays would be about 4.4 to 5.5 million. Visa overstays are almost always more than the number estimated to have entered the country illegally in a year. There are several exceptions during the last recession.

Note that these Stats don't always agree in the media because Homeland Security reports fiscal years (ending in Oct). The media will often adjust this figure for calendar years if it supports their story.
Immigration Data & Statistics

 

[Flopper]

They has have written rather extensively on rights of the accused. I suggest you read what they have to save.

You're arguing that only certain people should have rights in a court of law. Think about what that really means. If the accused does not have rights, then there can be no fair trial. Without fair trials, neither victims nor the accused will have confidence that justice will be done. Without fair trials, trust in government and the rule of law collapses.

When a country is invaded by foreign masses, it is at war against its invaders. They should be declared enemy combatants. Currently, we have foreign invaders/occupiers being treated about like convenience store thieves, and given trials in civilian courts.

This is not how countries should deal with their enemies (ex. Mexico) A news reporter asked my ex Army National Guard battalion commander, how does he deal with his enemies. The Lt. Colonel said >> "In the Army, the way we deal with our enemies is simple. It can be described in just 3 words. We Kill Them."

Declaring Mexico as an enemy of US is really crazy.

• Less than 4% of the Mexican people have lived in the US illegally.
• Most of the the illegal immigrants entering the US today are not Mexicans and now less that half the illegal immigrant population is Mexican.
• Mexico is our 3rd most important trading partner responsible for millions of US jobs.
• Finally the Mexican government is not responsible for guarding the US boarder.

 

[kaz]

They has have written rather extensively on rights of the accused. I suggest you read what they have to save.

You're arguing that only certain people should have rights in a court of law. Think about what that really means. If the accused does not have rights, then there can be no fair trial. Without fair trials, neither victims nor the accused will have confidence that justice will be done. Without fair trials, trust in government and the rule of law collapses.

When a country is invaded by foreign masses, it is at war against its invaders. They should be declared enemy combatants. Currently, we have foreign invaders/occupiers being treated about like convenience store thieves, and given trials in civilian courts.

This is not how countries should deal with their enemies (ex. Mexico) A news reporter asked my ex Army National Guard battalion commander, how does he deal with his enemies. The Lt. Colonel said >> "In the Army, the way we deal with our enemies is simple. It can be described in just 3 words. We Kill Them."

Declaring Mexico as an enemy of US is really crazy.

• Less than 4% of the Mexican people have lived in the US illegally.
• Most of the the illegal immigrants entering the US today are not Mexicans and now less that half the illegal immigrant population is Mexican.
• Mexico is our 3rd most important trading partner responsible for millions of US jobs.
• Finally the Mexican government is not responsible for guarding the US boarder.

You have such screwy assumptions:

1) Flopper - if we build a wall, we can't go after VISA overstays too, we have to pick one

- Bull, we need to go after both and any other way illegals are coming into the country

2) Flopper - only Mexicans are crossing our southern border

- Bull, lots of South Americans too. And so can anyone, including al Qaeda, who fly into Mexico city

3) 40% means a majority - no, 40% is not a majority. Not a math major, were you?

 

[Flopper]

They has have written rather extensively on rights of the accused. I suggest you read what they have to save.

You're arguing that only certain people should have rights in a court of law. Think about what that really means. If the accused does not have rights, then there can be no fair trial. Without fair trials, neither victims nor the accused will have confidence that justice will be done. Without fair trials, trust in government and the rule of law collapses.

When a country is invaded by foreign masses, it is at war against its invaders. They should be declared enemy combatants. Currently, we have foreign invaders/occupiers being treated about like convenience store thieves, and given trials in civilian courts.

This is not how countries should deal with their enemies (ex. Mexico) A news reporter asked my ex Army National Guard battalion commander, how does he deal with his enemies. The Lt. Colonel said >> "In the Army, the way we deal with our enemies is simple. It can be described in just 3 words. We Kill Them."

Declaring Mexico as an enemy of US is really crazy.

• Less than 4% of the Mexican people have lived in the US illegally.
• Most of the the illegal immigrants entering the US today are not Mexicans and now less that half the illegal immigrant population is Mexican.
• Mexico is our 3rd most important trading partner responsible for millions of US jobs.
• Finally the Mexican government is not responsible for guarding the US boarder.

You have such screwy assumptions:

1) Flopper - if we build a wall, we can't go after VISA overstays too, we have to pick one

- Bull, we need to go after both and any other way illegals are coming into the country

2) Flopper - only Mexicans are crossing our southern border

- Bull, lots of South Americans too. And so can anyone, including al Qaeda, who fly into Mexico city

3) 40% means a majority - no, 40% is not a majority. Not a math major, were you?

1. Of course we can we protect our borders and deal with visa overstays as we should but only in a fair and just manner. Trump's rush to deport as many people as fast as he can is going to backfire badly. The majority of the American public want a path to citizenship not deportation. Bypassing immigration court and his zero tolerance policy is going to hurt a lot of innocent people. For example: What does a businessman father from Ohio, an Arizona mother, the Indiana husband of a Trump supporter all have in common? They were unassuming members of their community, parents of US citizens, and undocumented immigrants order to be deported. They had been in this country for decades, they're employed, had never been arrested, paid their taxes, and were productive members of the community. And what crime did they commit. None. They are guilty of overstaying their visa, a civil infraction that carries no penalty other than deportation. However because of the time they have been in the country, the law says they will be band from reentry for 10 years. How in the world can anyone condom such unjust treatment? And people question why 6 states and hundreds of cities and towns have declared themselves a sanctuary.
2. Read my post, "Most of the the illegal immigrants entering the US today are not Mexicans ...".
3. It doesn't matter whether it's 40% or 50%, or 60%. The percentage is based on and estimate of the number of undocumented immigrants in the country. It could 9 million, 11 million, 12 million, or more or less. You seem to totally miss the point; the number of people that overstay their visas exceed the number coming over the boarder by a factor 2 to 4 times depending on year.

 

[Kondor3]

They has have written rather extensively on rights of the accused. I suggest you read what they have to save.

You're arguing that only certain people should have rights in a court of law. Think about what that really means. If the accused does not have rights, then there can be no fair trial. Without fair trials, neither victims nor the accused will have confidence that justice will be done. Without fair trials, trust in government and the rule of law collapses.

When a country is invaded by foreign masses, it is at war against its invaders. They should be declared enemy combatants. Currently, we have foreign invaders/occupiers being treated about like convenience store thieves, and given trials in civilian courts.

This is not how countries should deal with their enemies (ex. Mexico) A news reporter asked my ex Army National Guard battalion commander, how does he deal with his enemies. The Lt. Colonel said >> "In the Army, the way we deal with our enemies is simple. It can be described in just 3 words. We Kill Them."

Declaring Mexico as an enemy of US is really crazy.

• Less than 4% of the Mexican people have lived in the US illegally.
• Most of the the illegal immigrants entering the US today are not Mexicans and now less that half the illegal immigrant population is Mexican.
• Mexico is our 3rd most important trading partner responsible for millions of US jobs.
• Finally the Mexican government is not responsible for guarding the US boarder.

Doesn't matter.

Illegal Aliens are no longer welcome in the United States.

When we find you we are going to prosecute you.

If that means separating you from the children you foolishly risked when you brought them here illegally... tough $hit.

Just like we separate suspects from innocents in any other form of crime.

Don't like that?

Again... tough $hit.

You should have thought of that before you brought them here.

Not our circus... not our monkeys... not our problem.

You'll get them back when we're done processing your criminal charges.

Or until you voluntarily elect to plea-bargain in return for release on the Mexican side of the border.

Your call... the only "call" you get to make in all of this, once you've crossed over onto (or overstayed on) United States soil without our express prior consent.

Our country... our rules... our laws... our game.

Nobody likes to see a sucker (like the United States) "wise up".

Payback's a bitch, ain't it?

 

[Kondor3]

......The majority of the American public want a path to citizenship not deportation...

November 8, 2016, tells a different story.