What if God was deposed way back?

[Book of Jeremiah]

How was Abraham justified? Please answer the question.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

How is God a puppet master, Prachettfan?

I didn't say he was, I said if you have no free will then it doesn't matter who is pulling the strings. If you do have free will, then you are responsible and saying it is God's will you do something is just an excuse.

So if God is not a puppet master and Delta has a free will how can he say he is responsible to keep the law? When he has already admitted it is impossible to keep! Is God a hard task master? What is going on? Explain it to me.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Still waiting......... how was Abraham justified?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Asked a Chabad rabbi friend of mine something along those lines. Mine was 'why was Sodom destroyed for whatever reason BEFORE the Law had been given declaring those things unlawful?' The rabbi's response was some laws existed before the giving of it at Mt. Sinai. The 7 Noahide Laws God gave to Noah for example. Among these 7 is a generalized 'no sexual immorality.' How that's defined varies on source but presumedly Sodom was guilty of it.

So Abram would have lived righteously according to these and whatever other laws governed his people at that time. It's reasonable to assume some laws are universal as with don't steal, lie, or murder. And will exist in every time period.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Want bumpersticker length answers you'll ask to ask someone else.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Something that just occured, curiously while playing Tetris (maybe the spatial relationships/mathematical side of my brain being active freed up the other?) is what if God had been deposed by another god a long time ago?

The Biblical god expects us to deny our human natures. Refrain from everything fun on the promise that only after we die we'll enjoy those things in the afterlife. What if this current god was in fact an evil god that overthrew some older god who was more permissive saying 'if it harm none, do as ye will.' (The Wiccan Rede)

So most of us have boughyt it hook, line, and sinker and deny ourselves pleasure on the promise we'll get to have pleasure after we've died. Meanwhile the current deity laughs its ass off watching people pass up on opportunity after opportunity to enjoy life, die, and then simply cease to exist.

Meanwhile the true loving god is either dead and gone, or held incommunicado somewhere.

Things ya thnk about when playing Tetris.

Now we are getting down to it and the truth is finally coming out. The older god Delta is referring to is Lucifer who is also known as Satan and it is the creed of Satanists - Do what thou wilt - this is the core of the issue. Which God to serve? The One True God which is the God of Israel or the fallen angel - Lucifer - a created being who had duped people into believing he is the good 'God".... it was always Lucifer's desire to be worshiped as God. That is why he was cast out of heaven with a third of the angels. Because he desired the praises he saw God Almighty receive. Lucifer is a created being. God is not. While Lucifer may be for a short time the god of this world whose future is to be chained up by Gods holy angels and cast into the pit.

Lucifer is a liar. He has been a deceiver from the beginning. He always wants to play God as the bad guy! Is there anything new under the sun? When he came to deceive Eve his charge was God is holding out on you, Eve. He is really keeping you from so much, Eve, and if you listen to me you will obtain the knowledge of good and evil and be like God. What a liar he was. God gave Adam and Eve everything and his only command was do not eat from that particular tree. One tree out of the entire garden and God is a cheapskate, a holdout, a hard taskmaster? Ha! Ha! What a lie! What a liar Satan is! He is such a liar! Serving God is the greatest, most enjoyable, tremendous adventure! Having a relationship with God is better than anything this fallen world has to offer you! There is nothing to compare it to! Satan despises those who serve him, Delta. Oh his workers believe they will be rewarded alright but how can you trust a liar? You see, once this life is over, the die has been cast and hell will not be shared with those who served him. He has lied and deceived his own followers. He despises his own followers! Why does Lucifer despise men and women who serve him so faithfully?

Simple! You were made in the Image of God and he despises God! The demons despise God! The fallen angels despise God! And the same demons who give power ( but not over Christians who know their inheritance ) to these followers of Satan here on earth will be the same demons who will be cruelly tormenting them in the pit of hell for all eternity!


Imagine it! Here I am telling you the truth and trying to snatch your souls from the flames and Lucifer is hoping against hope that you won't believe me! Oh! I tell you the truth! There is only One God and every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that He is the Lord! Who is the Lord? Jesus Christ. That's who. You're Jewish Messiah!

*** Before I came to Jesus Christ and believed upon him my life was utter misery and I denied myself no pleasure, Delta. So how is it I am so full of joy and praise to God now - feeling more freedom then I had ever had thought or imagined possible - while serving God - whereas before I knew the Lord I knew nothing but misery! Sin is fun for a season but then it brings forth death. Death of happiness, death of freedom, death of conscience and finally eternal death. Sound glamorous? I do not think so. Not at all! Jesus Christ is the truth, the way and the life. Satan is a liar. Believe it.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Asked a Chabad rabbi friend of mine something along those lines. Mine was 'why was Sodom destroyed for whatever reason BEFORE the Law had been given declaring those things unlawful?' The rabbi's response was some laws existed before the giving of it at Mt. Sinai. The 7 Noahide Laws God gave to Noah for example. Among these 7 is a generalized 'no sexual immorality.' How that's defined varies on source but presumedly Sodom was guilty of it.

So Abram would have lived righteously according to these and whatever other laws governed his people at that time. It's reasonable to assume some laws are universal as with don't steal, lie, or murder. And will exist in every time period.

So you are saying that Abraham was justified by the law then. But for those who would say no, the law was not yet given - these were works - then what shall we say, Was Abraham justified by works or by Faith, Delta?

 

[PratchettFan]

How is God a puppet master, Prachettfan?

I didn't say he was, I said if you have no free will then it doesn't matter who is pulling the strings. If you do have free will, then you are responsible and saying it is God's will you do something is just an excuse.

So if God is not a puppet master and Delta has a free will how can he say he is responsible to keep the law? When he has already admitted it is impossible to keep! Is God a hard task master? What is going on? Explain it to me.

If Delta has examined the law and considers them to be right, then he is responsible to keep them. That responsibility does not derive from God but from him. If he deems it right and does not keep them, then he is doing wrong. But again, that is entirely from him. Only he can determine the right of it.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Want bumpersticker length answers you'll ask to ask someone else.

Not at all. We're doing fine here. The Scriptures do not support your Rabbi's claim. The scriptures declare that Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him as righteousness. Now if Abraham was justifed by faith then it was not of works. Nor was it of keeping the law - if you wish to refer to Noah - Abraham was justified by faith. Not works. If Abraham were justified by works he would have something to boast about. But he was not justified by works nor was he justified by the keeping of the law but rather as it is written, Abraham was justified by faith.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I didn't say he was, I said if you have no free will then it doesn't matter who is pulling the strings. If you do have free will, then you are responsible and saying it is God's will you do something is just an excuse.

So if God is not a puppet master and Delta has a free will how can he say he is responsible to keep the law? When he has already admitted it is impossible to keep! Is God a hard task master? What is going on? Explain it to me.

If Delta has examined the law and considers them to be right, then he is responsible to keep them. That responsibility does not derive from God but from him. If he deems it right and does not keep them, then he is doing wrong. But again, that is entirely from him. Only he can determine the right of it.

While I agree with you, Prachettfan that if Delta examines the law and considers it right it would be his responsibility to keep them but Delta has already told us it is impossible to keep the law. So can Delta do, Pratchettfan?

What has God done to free Delta from the law which he admits he could not keep? Please tell me what your thoughts are on what God has done. We know God has done something because He promised through his prophets he would do it. What is it?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Asked a Chabad rabbi friend of mine something along those lines. Mine was 'why was Sodom destroyed for whatever reason BEFORE the Law had been given declaring those things unlawful?' The rabbi's response was some laws existed before the giving of it at Mt. Sinai. The 7 Noahide Laws God gave to Noah for example. Among these 7 is a generalized 'no sexual immorality.' How that's defined varies on source but presumedly Sodom was guilty of it.

So Abram would have lived righteously according to these and whatever other laws governed his people at that time. It's reasonable to assume some laws are universal as with don't steal, lie, or murder. And will exist in every time period.

I agree with you that some laws were not done away with such as don't steal, don't lie, don't murder. Keep going. You're about to find your redemption, Delta. Which is what Christ came to give you by shedding His Blood on a cross at calvary.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Let's go back to the description of righteousness.

It is written:

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets. Even the righteousness of God which is faith in Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe there is no difference. For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Being justified freely by his grace through redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath sent forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is the boasting then? Is it excluded? By what law? of works? Nay, but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Is he the God of the Jews only? Is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid. Yea, we establish the law.

-Romans 3: 21 - 31

 

[PratchettFan]

So if God is not a puppet master and Delta has a free will how can he say he is responsible to keep the law? When he has already admitted it is impossible to keep! Is God a hard task master? What is going on? Explain it to me.

If Delta has examined the law and considers them to be right, then he is responsible to keep them. That responsibility does not derive from God but from him. If he deems it right and does not keep them, then he is doing wrong. But again, that is entirely from him. Only he can determine the right of it.

While I agree with you, Prachettfan that if Delta examines the law and considers it right it would be his responsibility to keep them but Delta has already told us it is impossible to keep the law. So can Delta do, Pratchettfan?

What has God done to free Delta from the law which he admits he could not keep? Please tell me what your thoughts are on what God has done. We know God has done something because He promised through his prophets he would do it. What is it?

No. God has not freed him. Only Delta can do that, and I see no reason he need to. If he has set impossible goals for himself, then it is up to him to change goals by his own standards.

I am in a discussion on another thread dealing with the story of the rich man meeting Jesus. Jesus tells the man to relinquish all of his possessions and the man walks away, to which Jesus give the famous line of the rich man and they eye of the needle. However, when the man initially asks what he must do Jesus only says he need follow the commandment. It is only after the man insists that he has done all of that but there must be something more that Jesus says to give up his possessions. Jesus was telling the man to live up to his own standards, not God's. And because it was the man's standards he was failing to meet, Jesus could do nothing for him.

You decide what is right and you are the only one who can determine success or failure.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Abrahams Righteousness apart from works:

It is written:

What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath thereof to glory, but not before God. For what saith the scripture? ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS COUNTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also described the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, saying,
BLESSED ARE THEY WHOSE INIQUITIES ARE FORGIVEN, AND WHOSE SINS ARE COVERED. BLESSED IS THE MAN TO WHOM THE LORD WILL NOT IMPUTE SIN. - Romans 4: 1 - 8

 

[GISMYS]

If Delta has examined the law and considers them to be right, then he is responsible to keep them. That responsibility does not derive from God but from him. If he deems it right and does not keep them, then he is doing wrong. But again, that is entirely from him. Only he can determine the right of it.

While I agree with you, Prachettfan that if Delta examines the law and considers it right it would be his responsibility to keep them but Delta has already told us it is impossible to keep the law. So can Delta do, Pratchettfan?

What has God done to free Delta from the law which he admits he could not keep? Please tell me what your thoughts are on what God has done. We know God has done something because He promised through his prophets he would do it. What is it?

No. God has not freed him. Only Delta can do that, and I see no reason he need to. If he has set impossible goals for himself, then it is up to him to change goals by his own standards.

I am in a discussion on another thread dealing with the story of the rich man meeting Jesus. Jesus tells the man to relinquish all of his possessions and the man walks away, to which Jesus give the famous line of the rich man and they eye of the needle. However, when the man initially asks what he must do Jesus only says he need follow the commandment. It is only after the man insists that he has done all of that but there must be something more that Jesus says to give up his possessions. Jesus was telling the man to live up to his own standards, not God's. And because it was the man's standards he was failing to meet, Jesus could do nothing for him.

You decide what is right and you are the only one who can determine success or failure.

JESUS KNEW THE RICH MAN'S HEART AND JESUS KNEW THE RICH MAN WAS TRUSTING IN HIS WEALTH NOT GOD. Trusting in money is a huge mistake,put your faith and trust in GOD only>

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

If Delta has examined the law and considers them to be right, then he is responsible to keep them. That responsibility does not derive from God but from him. If he deems it right and does not keep them, then he is doing wrong. But again, that is entirely from him. Only he can determine the right of it.

While I agree with you, Prachettfan that if Delta examines the law and considers it right it would be his responsibility to keep them but Delta has already told us it is impossible to keep the law. So can Delta do, Pratchettfan?

What has God done to free Delta from the law which he admits he could not keep? Please tell me what your thoughts are on what God has done. We know God has done something because He promised through his prophets he would do it. What is it?

No. God has not freed him. Only Delta can do that, and I see no reason he need to. If he has set impossible goals for himself, then it is up to him to change goals by his own standards.

I am in a discussion on another thread dealing with the story of the rich man meeting Jesus. Jesus tells the man to relinquish all of his possessions and the man walks away, to which Jesus give the famous line of the rich man and they eye of the needle. However, when the man initially asks what he must do Jesus only says he need follow the commandment. It is only after the man insists that he has done all of that but there must be something more that Jesus says to give up his possessions. Jesus was telling the man to live up to his own standards, not God's. And because it was the man's standards he was failing to meet, Jesus could do nothing for him.

You decide what is right and you are the only one who can determine success or failure.

You are mistaken, Pratchettfan. On the first statement - God has not freed Delta. Wrong. God has indeed freed Delta and as you keep reading you too will get the picture of why Jesus came to fulfill the law and not do away with it. Keep reading.

On the matter of Jesus and the rich young ruler. The rich young ruler lied to Jesus. He told him that he had kept the commandments when in fact he had not kept the commandments. Had he loved the Lord with all of his heart, all of his mind, all of his strength he would have instantly walked away from his riches which he was later asked to do in the same story. Instead he walked away exceedingly sorrowful.

Had he loved his neighbor as himself he would have shared his possessions as those in the book of Acts later did. He would not have been a "Rich young Ruler"...he would have taken the invitation to leave all and come follow Christ which would have made him a "poor young servant." On both accounts he lied. Jesus showed him his own heart. The heart is exceedly deceitful, who can know it? Other than the Lord? Only God can search the hearts of men and know what is in there.

 

[PratchettFan]

While I agree with you, Prachettfan that if Delta examines the law and considers it right it would be his responsibility to keep them but Delta has already told us it is impossible to keep the law. So can Delta do, Pratchettfan?

What has God done to free Delta from the law which he admits he could not keep? Please tell me what your thoughts are on what God has done. We know God has done something because He promised through his prophets he would do it. What is it?

No. God has not freed him. Only Delta can do that, and I see no reason he need to. If he has set impossible goals for himself, then it is up to him to change goals by his own standards.

I am in a discussion on another thread dealing with the story of the rich man meeting Jesus. Jesus tells the man to relinquish all of his possessions and the man walks away, to which Jesus give the famous line of the rich man and they eye of the needle. However, when the man initially asks what he must do Jesus only says he need follow the commandment. It is only after the man insists that he has done all of that but there must be something more that Jesus says to give up his possessions. Jesus was telling the man to live up to his own standards, not God's. And because it was the man's standards he was failing to meet, Jesus could do nothing for him.

You decide what is right and you are the only one who can determine success or failure.

You are mistaken, Pratchettfan. On the first statement - God has not freed Delta. Wrong. God has indeed freed Delta and as you keep reading you too will get the picture of why Jesus came to fulfill the law and not do away with it. Keep reading.

On the matter of Jesus and the rich young ruler. The rich young ruler lied to Jesus. He told him that he had kept the commandments when in fact he had not kept the commandments. Had he loved the Lord with all of his heart, all of his mind, all of his strength he would have instantly walked away from his riches which he was later asked to do in the same story. Instead he walked away exceedingly sorrowful.

Had he loved his neighbor as himself he would have shared his possessions as those in the book of Acts later did. He would not have been a "Rich young Ruler"...he would have taken the invitation to leave all and come follow Christ which would have made him a "poor young servant." On both accounts he lied. Jesus showed him his own heart. The heart is exceedly deceitful, who can know it? Other than the Lord? Only God can search the hearts of men and know what is in there.

No. According to Christianity all God has done is present an option. It is up to the person to free themselves.

Your interpretation of the story is interesting. But I do not agree.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Back to Delta. Delta this is about Abraham's righteousness apart from the Law:

It is written:

For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promises made of none effect: Because the law worketh wrath; for where no law is, there is no transgression. Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace, to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed, not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all. - Romans 4: 13 - 16

_______________________

 

[Delta4Embassy]

I don't worship the Biblical god. I believe that is evil if it exists, but more likely doesn't exist in the first place. I worship no god because none can be demonstrated to exist via science. If you're only way or 'proving' God exists is to quote Bible passages that's like saying Freddy Krueger really exists waiting for us in our dreams because the movie's script says so.

For someone using the OT portion of a Bible as with Abram, ask yourself if all the commandments from that god to murder women and children is indicative a being worthy being worshipped.

I'm done trying to riddle some 'good' meaning out of wholesale slaughter and murder on the part of God's commands to his followers. If he exists at all, which I doubt, he isn't worth being worshipped by anyone who thinks they're 'good.' He's evil through and through as I demonstrated in the 'when's the BIble say life begins' thread.