What if Israel Annexes the West Bank and Lets Palestinians Vote

[JoeB131]

A two state solution was offered to Arafat and again to Abbas, but Arafat responded with the second intifada and Abbas never responded at all. Time's up, the world has moved on.

Basing the proposed Arab state on the 1949 ceasefire line was nothing but arbitrary and now negotiations, if they ever happen again, will not be based on everything the Arabs want to achieve but will start with the conditions on the ground, which are area A, probably all or nearly all of area B and perhaps a small part of area C. Trump's plan would give them half of area C if they can credibly offer peace to Israel within four years. If they reject it, they get nothing.

Or they can simply wait the Zionists out... As young kids in Israel decide that living next to people who want to justifiable kill you isn't a smart life strategy.

Demographics are NOT the Zionist's friend.

 

[Hollie]

Palestinian Jews were Jewish inhabitants of Palestine (known in Hebrew as Eretz Israel, the "Land of Israel") prior to the establishment of the modern state of Israel.

Yeah, big problem with that. There weren't any before the British started settling them there.

Why is it every prominent Jewish Leader in the Zionist Entity can trace his ancestry back to Europe within one or two generations?

Netanyahoo's dad came from Poland.
Benny Gantz's parents came from Romania and Hungary
Shimon Peres was born in Poland.
Moshe Dayan's parents emigrated from the Ukraine.

I can go on and on, but oddly, NONE of these people can really trace their family trees back centuries in Palestine... they are what they are, invaders.

So my plan. The Palestinians get their land back, the Zionists go back to Europe where they came from.

I think the ummah has been waiting for you, their savior, to start rounding up them-their Jews for deportation.

 

[JoeB131]

I think the ummah has been waiting for you, their savior, to start rounding up them-their Jews for deportation.

Again, you guys do this to yourselves... you manage to wear out your welcome no matter where you go.

 

[Hollie]

I think the ummah has been waiting for you, their savior, to start rounding up them-their Jews for deportation.

Again, you guys do this to yourselves... you manage to wear out your welcome no matter where you go.

Well, that’s the problem isn’t it? Your tedious, flaming tirades about “send them-there Jooooos back” doesn’t really come with a plan.

Basically, your cut and paste tirades are just pointless, right?

 

[JoeB131]

Well, that’s the problem isn’t it? Your tedious, flaming tirades about “send them-there Jooooos back” doesn’t really come with a plan.

Basically, your cut and paste tirades are just pointless, right?

Sure there's a plan. One Person. One Vote. Then the Jews can decide if they want to live with Muslim leaders when they win the majority, or go back to Europe where they came from. I couldn't really care which they do at that point.

 

[Mindful]

I think the ummah has been waiting for you, their savior, to start rounding up them-their Jews for deportation.

Again, you guys do this to yourselves... you manage to wear out your welcome no matter where you go.

Well, that’s the problem isn’t it? Your tedious, flaming tirades about “send them-there Jooooos back” doesn’t really come with a plan.

Basically, your cut and paste tirades are just pointless, right?

I shall not post to his babble anymore. It's pointless.

Shan't iggy. But scroll I will.

 

[Hollie]

Well, that’s the problem isn’t it? Your tedious, flaming tirades about “send them-there Jooooos back” doesn’t really come with a plan.

Basically, your cut and paste tirades are just pointless, right?

Sure there's a plan. One Person. One Vote. Then the Jews can decide if they want to live with Muslim leaders when they win the majority, or go back to Europe where they came from. I couldn't really care which they do at that point.

In your program of cleansing the ummah of Joooos, are the Arabs going back to Arabia?

I’m still not seeing your plan in place to cleanse the ummah of Joooos. Shouldn’t we expect to see some action on your part as the ummah’s savior?

 

[JoeB131]

shall not post to his babble anymore. It's pointless.

Shan't iggy. But scroll I will.

Your concession is duly noted. Look, I know the problem is that there's a disconnect between your noble fantasies and the reality of the Zionist Entity. We Americans had a similar issue when we realized that Jim Crow was an ugly reality.

 

[Hollie]

I think the ummah has been waiting for you, their savior, to start rounding up them-their Jews for deportation.

Again, you guys do this to yourselves... you manage to wear out your welcome no matter where you go.

Well, that’s the problem isn’t it? Your tedious, flaming tirades about “send them-there Jooooos back” doesn’t really come with a plan.

Basically, your cut and paste tirades are just pointless, right?

I shall not post to his babble anymore. It's pointless.

Shan't iggy. But scroll I will.

He’s just a clown.

 

[Mindful]

I think the ummah has been waiting for you, their savior, to start rounding up them-their Jews for deportation.

Again, you guys do this to yourselves... you manage to wear out your welcome no matter where you go.

Well, that’s the problem isn’t it? Your tedious, flaming tirades about “send them-there Jooooos back” doesn’t really come with a plan.

Basically, your cut and paste tirades are just pointless, right?

I shall not post to his babble anymore. It's pointless.

Shan't iggy. But scroll I will.

He’s just a clown.

Yes!

A troll.

 

[toastman]

Palestinian Jews were Jewish inhabitants of Palestine (known in Hebrew as Eretz Israel, the "Land of Israel") prior to the establishment of the modern state of Israel.

Yeah, big problem with that. There weren't any before the British started settling them there.

Why is it every prominent Jewish Leader in the Zionist Entity can trace his ancestry back to Europe within one or two generations?

Netanyahoo's dad came from Poland.
Benny Gantz's parents came from Romania and Hungary
Shimon Peres was born in Poland.
Moshe Dayan's parents emigrated from the Ukraine.

I can go on and on, but oddly, NONE of these people can really trace their family trees back centuries in Palestine... they are what they are, invaders.

So my plan. The Palestinians get their land back, the Zionists go back to Europe where they came from.

You named four people out of millions on Israelis. I mean really?
Also, Israel and Israelis are going nowhere , and I know that kills you inside. Can’t deal with it? Go cry to David Duke...

 

[Hollie]

Well, that’s the problem isn’t it? Your tedious, flaming tirades about “send them-there Jooooos back” doesn’t really come with a plan.

Basically, your cut and paste tirades are just pointless, right?

Sure there's a plan. One Person. One Vote. Then the Jews can decide if they want to live with Muslim leaders when they win the majority, or go back to Europe where they came from. I couldn't really care which they do at that point.

Israel has one person, one vote now. One person, one vote rarely occurs in your Islamist paradises.

What's your plan for exporting Jews to Europe?

 

[Corazon]

Why not?

A two state solution, as originally envisioned, is in a zombie state of perpetual propping up by diplomats. It's support has drastically waned among both Palestinians and Israelis.

With a one state solution (Israel + West Bank) - assuming a scenario where ALL residents are offered the opportunity of citizenship up front, the plus side for Palestinians would be the potential of better representation, political stability, assumption of rights guaranteed by citizenship and funding for infrastructure, education, etc. that is in perpetual shortage with their Palestinian leadership.

In theory this idea could work (maybe...) but there's a problem: the State of Palestine.
138 UN members recognize it and that State itself is a non member observer state in the UN
Annexation could be problematic...
Also many Palestinian politicians wouldn't be happy if their State disappeared

Link?

State of Palestine - Wikipedia

According to the link you provided, the State of Palestine, declared in 1988, encompasses only the West Bank and Gaza. So why does Tinmore claim that all of Israel is occupied territory?

I have no idea!
I only know that the Palestinian government claims the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza Strip. Nothing more

 

[RoccoR]

RE: What if Israel Annexes the West Bank and Lets Palestinians Vote
⁜→ JoeB131, P F Tinmore, et al,

This is another one of those tricky worded and nonbinding snowflakes that the Propaganda Machine generates periodically.

◈ The UN does not consider any territory in the Middle East to be a NSGT.

Yes it does.

3. Reaffirms the inalienable right of the Namibian people, the Palestinian people and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination to self-determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national unity and sovereignty without outside interference;

18. Strongly condemns those Governments that do not recognize the right to self-determination and independence of all peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the peoples of Africa and the Palestinian people;

Right of peoples to self-determination - GA resolution - Question of Palestine

(COMMENT)

As I said in Posting #694 (supra),

C-24 Mandate
-------------------------
In accordance with GA resolution 1654 (XVI), the C-24 was mandated to →

(i) examine the application of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples (GA resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960, hereafter referred to as the "Declaration") and

(ii) to make suggestions and recommendations on the progress and extent of the implementation of the Declaration. The C-24 commenced its work in 1962.​

The C-24 annually reviews the list of Non-Self-Governing Territories to which the Declaration is applicable. It also hears statements from representatives of the Non-Self-Governing Territories at its annual sessions, dispatches visiting missions to Non-Self-Governing Territories and annually organizes regional seminars.

There is a Catch 22 here for the Arab Palestinian Leadership. IF they claim that they are a NSGT under the colonial domination of Israel, THEN the Arab Palestinians cannot have a sovereign state.

nation; state. → These two words have different meanings.

◈ A nation is a group of people inhabiting a defined territory, that group being distinct from other groups of people by the fact of its having allegiance to a single government exercising jurisdiction directly over each individual in the group.

◈ The state, by contrast, is the system of rules—or the machinery—by which jurisdiction is exercised over individuals within the group.

It is therefore “illogical and confusing to use the terms ‘State’ and ‘Nation’ as though they were interchangeable, although this is frequently done. Thus we refer to the ‘United Nations' although this is in fact an organization of States.”

• SOURCE LINK •
• SOURCE (Free) .pdf •

You will notice that both of these terms, having a common theme, referring to either a:

◈ "a single government exercising jurisdiction directly over each individual in the group."

◈ "which jurisdiction is exercised over individuals within the group."​

IF the State of Palestine has either more than one "system of rules—or the machinery" [Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) -- and -- Palestinian Authority (PA)] THEN it cannot be a "nation."

IF the State of Palestine does not exercise jurisdiction directly over each individual in the group [Area A (full civil and security control by the Palestinian Authority) • Area B (Palestinian civil control and joint Israeli-Palestinian security control) • Area C (full Israeli civil and security control)] THEN it cannot be a "state."

It cannot be the case that the State of Palestine can claim both to be a State or a Nation - and - also claim to be a Non-Self Governing Territory (NSGT) simultaneously.

It does not matter what the General Assembly Resolution might say, a GA Resolution cannot change International Law or Customary Interpretation.


Most Respectfully,
R

 

[MJB12741]

You might want to take your thread spam elsewhere as this thread is not about your pointless slogans.

You might want to actually try answering a point...

The Palestinians lived in Palestine for hundreds of years. It was their land.

Then the Zionists started showing up from Europe and stole it.

What difference does it make. The stage was set for the establishment of a Jewish National Home by the authority of the Allied Powers on the defeat of the Ottoman Empire. It had nothing to do with population density in the region. The initial spark for the decisions which were to follow the Great War (World War I) was the arrangements agreed upon in the Syke-Picot Agreement (1916). This was well before the Armistice of Mudros (concluded - 30 October 1918); which ended the hostilities with the Ottoman Empire.

Again, what gave the allied powers the right to give away someone else's land?

So let's be honest, this was about a land grab by the British and French, using the Zionists as proxies to extend their imperial reach.

As for "stolen land " → the Arab Palestinian has no claim in terms of territorial integrity or sovereignty on the conclusion of the war in 1918 (private property being an entirely different matter). The Ottoman Empire relinquished the title to the territory by direct assignment to the Allied Powers by Treaty. Consider: It has been the "customary" protocol to adhere to the historical principles established and the decisions made by the world leaders; especially decision more than a hundred years old.

Here's the problem with that argument. One of the Fourteen Points the Allies agreed to was "Self-Determination" of nations after the war. Meaning that they were to encourage the national aspirations of Czechs, Poles, etc. in forming their own nations. In short, if the Allies were standing up for their own principles - or at least principles they adopted to rationalize the war after millions of people had died for nothing - then they should have recognized the rights of Arabs to self-determination.

But this was yet another case of "Silly Darkies, Rights are for White People". The Czechs get self-determination... but you Arabs, or you "wogs" living in Germany Colonies in Africa, then dammit, we're taking your land and setting up our own colonies. And we certainly don't want people living in British or French Colonies to get some silly idea that THEY get self-determination.

So, yes, the British STOLE Palestine, and used the Zionists as proxies to do so.

How do ya like that? And here I actually believed the Jews Solomon's Temple existed since the 10th century BCE long before the Palestinian's Al Asqa Mosque. And those European Zionists "stole Palestinian land." Amazing what we can learn here from JoeB.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Palestinian Jews were Jewish inhabitants of Palestine (known in Hebrew as Eretz Israel, the "Land of Israel") prior to the establishment of the modern state of Israel.

Yeah, big problem with that. There weren't any before the British started settling them there.

Why is it every prominent Jewish Leader in the Zionist Entity can trace his ancestry back to Europe within one or two generations?

Netanyahoo's dad came from Poland.
Benny Gantz's parents came from Romania and Hungary
Shimon Peres was born in Poland.
Moshe Dayan's parents emigrated from the Ukraine.

I can go on and on, but oddly, NONE of these people can really trace their family trees back centuries in Palestine... they are what they are, invaders.

So my plan. The Palestinians get their land back, the Zionists go back to Europe where they came from.

You named four people out of millions on Israelis. I mean really?
Also, Israel and Israelis are going nowhere , and I know that kills you inside. Can’t deal with it? Go cry to David Duke...

During the past 80 years, many, many Jewish Israelis have been born in Israel. Plus, over half of Jewish Israelis have roots from the Middle East, and not Europe. Also, I would like to ask JoeB if he is Native American, like Cherokee or Apache, or one of those such tribes.

 

[toomuchtime_]

A two state solution was offered to Arafat and again to Abbas, but Arafat responded with the second intifada and Abbas never responded at all. Time's up, the world has moved on.

Basing the proposed Arab state on the 1949 ceasefire line was nothing but arbitrary and now negotiations, if they ever happen again, will not be based on everything the Arabs want to achieve but will start with the conditions on the ground, which are area A, probably all or nearly all of area B and perhaps a small part of area C. Trump's plan would give them half of area C if they can credibly offer peace to Israel within four years. If they reject it, they get nothing.

Or they can simply wait the Zionists out... As young kids in Israel decide that living next to people who want to justifiable kill you isn't a smart life strategy.

Demographics are NOT the Zionist's friend.

lol Waiting the Jews out has not been a winning strategy for Palestinians so far. The fact is they homicide rate in Israel, including the settlements in Judea and Samaria is less than half that of the US, and it is much safer to live in Israel, including the settlements in Judea and Samaria than to live in most large US cities.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: What if Israel Annexes the West Bank and Lets Palestinians Vote
⁜→ JoeB131, P F Tinmore, et al,

This is another one of those tricky worded and nonbinding snowflakes that the Propaganda Machine generates periodically.

◈ The UN does not consider any territory in the Middle East to be a NSGT.

Yes it does.

3. Reaffirms the inalienable right of the Namibian people, the Palestinian people and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination to self-determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national unity and sovereignty without outside interference;

18. Strongly condemns those Governments that do not recognize the right to self-determination and independence of all peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the peoples of Africa and the Palestinian people;

Right of peoples to self-determination - GA resolution - Question of Palestine

(COMMENT)

As I said in Posting #694 (supra),

C-24 Mandate
-------------------------
In accordance with GA resolution 1654 (XVI), the C-24 was mandated to →

(i) examine the application of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples (GA resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960, hereafter referred to as the "Declaration") and

(ii) to make suggestions and recommendations on the progress and extent of the implementation of the Declaration. The C-24 commenced its work in 1962.​

The C-24 annually reviews the list of Non-Self-Governing Territories to which the Declaration is applicable. It also hears statements from representatives of the Non-Self-Governing Territories at its annual sessions, dispatches visiting missions to Non-Self-Governing Territories and annually organizes regional seminars.

View attachment 305278​

There is a Catch 22 here for the Arab Palestinian Leadership. IF they claim that they are a NSGT under the colonial domination of Israel, THEN the Arab Palestinians cannot have a sovereign state.

nation; state. → These two words have different meanings.

◈ A nation is a group of people inhabiting a defined territory, that group being distinct from other groups of people by the fact of its having allegiance to a single government exercising jurisdiction directly over each individual in the group.

◈ The state, by contrast, is the system of rules—or the machinery—by which jurisdiction is exercised over individuals within the group.

It is therefore “illogical and confusing to use the terms ‘State’ and ‘Nation’ as though they were interchangeable, although this is frequently done. Thus we refer to the ‘United Nations' although this is in fact an organization of States.”

• SOURCE LINK •
• SOURCE (Free) .pdf •

You will notice that both of these terms, having a common theme, referring to either a:

◈ "a single government exercising jurisdiction directly over each individual in the group."

◈ "which jurisdiction is exercised over individuals within the group."​

IF the State of Palestine has either more than one "system of rules—or the machinery" [Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) -- and -- Palestinian Authority (PA)] THEN it cannot be a "nation."

IF the State of Palestine does not exercise jurisdiction directly over each individual in the group [Area A (full civil and security control by the Palestinian Authority) • Area B (Palestinian civil control and joint Israeli-Palestinian security control) • Area C (full Israeli civil and security control)] THEN it cannot be a "state."

It cannot be the case that the State of Palestine can claim both to be a State or a Nation - and - also claim to be a Non-Self Governing Territory (NSGT) simultaneously.

It does not matter what the General Assembly Resolution might say, a GA Resolution cannot change International Law or Customary Interpretation.


Most Respectfully,
R

The bottom line is that conquest is illegal. Occupations cannot annex occupied territory. They do not acquire sovereignty.

Territory and sovereignty remanms in the hands of the permanent population.

 

[Hollie]

RE: What if Israel Annexes the West Bank and Lets Palestinians Vote
⁜→ JoeB131, P F Tinmore, et al,

This is another one of those tricky worded and nonbinding snowflakes that the Propaganda Machine generates periodically.

◈ The UN does not consider any territory in the Middle East to be a NSGT.

Yes it does.

3. Reaffirms the inalienable right of the Namibian people, the Palestinian people and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination to self-determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national unity and sovereignty without outside interference;

18. Strongly condemns those Governments that do not recognize the right to self-determination and independence of all peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the peoples of Africa and the Palestinian people;

Right of peoples to self-determination - GA resolution - Question of Palestine

(COMMENT)

As I said in Posting #694 (supra),

C-24 Mandate
-------------------------
In accordance with GA resolution 1654 (XVI), the C-24 was mandated to →

(i) examine the application of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples (GA resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960, hereafter referred to as the "Declaration") and

(ii) to make suggestions and recommendations on the progress and extent of the implementation of the Declaration. The C-24 commenced its work in 1962.​

The C-24 annually reviews the list of Non-Self-Governing Territories to which the Declaration is applicable. It also hears statements from representatives of the Non-Self-Governing Territories at its annual sessions, dispatches visiting missions to Non-Self-Governing Territories and annually organizes regional seminars.

View attachment 305278​

There is a Catch 22 here for the Arab Palestinian Leadership. IF they claim that they are a NSGT under the colonial domination of Israel, THEN the Arab Palestinians cannot have a sovereign state.

nation; state. → These two words have different meanings.

◈ A nation is a group of people inhabiting a defined territory, that group being distinct from other groups of people by the fact of its having allegiance to a single government exercising jurisdiction directly over each individual in the group.

◈ The state, by contrast, is the system of rules—or the machinery—by which jurisdiction is exercised over individuals within the group.

It is therefore “illogical and confusing to use the terms ‘State’ and ‘Nation’ as though they were interchangeable, although this is frequently done. Thus we refer to the ‘United Nations' although this is in fact an organization of States.”

• SOURCE LINK •
• SOURCE (Free) .pdf •

You will notice that both of these terms, having a common theme, referring to either a:

◈ "a single government exercising jurisdiction directly over each individual in the group."

◈ "which jurisdiction is exercised over individuals within the group."​

IF the State of Palestine has either more than one "system of rules—or the machinery" [Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) -- and -- Palestinian Authority (PA)] THEN it cannot be a "nation."

IF the State of Palestine does not exercise jurisdiction directly over each individual in the group [Area A (full civil and security control by the Palestinian Authority) • Area B (Palestinian civil control and joint Israeli-Palestinian security control) • Area C (full Israeli civil and security control)] THEN it cannot be a "state."

It cannot be the case that the State of Palestine can claim both to be a State or a Nation - and - also claim to be a Non-Self Governing Territory (NSGT) simultaneously.

It does not matter what the General Assembly Resolution might say, a GA Resolution cannot change International Law or Customary Interpretation.


Most Respectfully,
R

The bottom line is that conquest is illegal. Occupations cannot annex occupied territory. They do not acquire sovereignty.

Territory and sovereignty remanms in the hands of the permanent population.

Unsupported opinion.

 

[JoeB131]

You named four people out of millions on Israelis. I mean really?
Also, Israel and Israelis are going nowhere , and I know that kills you inside. Can’t deal with it? Go cry to David Duke...

I named four who happen to be the leaders of the Apartheid Entity...

The point you guys keep making is that the Zionists have a right to that land because they were there first. But they all came from Europe.

lol Waiting the Jews out has not been a winning strategy for Palestinians so far. The fact is they homicide rate in Israel, including the settlements in Judea and Samaria is less than half that of the US, and it is much safer to live in Israel, including the settlements in Judea and Samaria than to live in most large US cities.

The fact that most of the Zionist Entity's good will in the rest of the world has evaporated tells me that waiting them out is just fine. They are becoming as much of an international pariah as South Africa was before Apartheid fell.