What if she didn't have a gun?

[Brain357]

When you buy a gun from an FFL dealer, you are required by law to complete a BATF form 4473. The dealer is then required to keep that form forever - and also record the purchase in a BATF "bound book" that shows all inflows and outflows of firearms.

If a gun is ever "traced" by BATF, they will first call the manufacturer and ask where the gun was shipped (manufacturers also have to have a special FFL AND maintain their own bound book records. BATF will then contact the wholesaler that received the gun and again track that through their bound book to the retailer. Finally the retailer is called and asked who the gun was sold to.

So, there is basically a paper trail on all new gun sales since 1968.

Also, if an FFL dealer goes out of business, they are required by law to forward their bound book and all form 4473 paperwork to the BATF for safekeeping.

So yes it is basically registered.

Trust me, I know.

So I buy a gun from a neighbor who bought it from a friend. I then sell to somebody who ends up being a criminal. How does that come back to me?

Assuming your neighbor/friend is intelligent, there will be a paper trail (bill of sale) that would lead directly to you.

Are you dumb enough to sell a firearm without having a bill of sale?

Is a bill of sale required? Is any paper trail required? So rather than a background check your relying on people being smart?

 

[Brain357]

When you buy a gun from an FFL dealer, you are required by law to complete a BATF form 4473. The dealer is then required to keep that form forever - and also record the purchase in a BATF "bound book" that shows all inflows and outflows of firearms.

If a gun is ever "traced" by BATF, they will first call the manufacturer and ask where the gun was shipped (manufacturers also have to have a special FFL AND maintain their own bound book records. BATF will then contact the wholesaler that received the gun and again track that through their bound book to the retailer. Finally the retailer is called and asked who the gun was sold to.

So, there is basically a paper trail on all new gun sales since 1968.

Also, if an FFL dealer goes out of business, they are required by law to forward their bound book and all form 4473 paperwork to the BATF for safekeeping.

So yes it is basically registered.

Trust me, I know.

So I buy a gun from a neighbor who bought it from a friend. I then sell to somebody who ends up being a criminal. How does that come back to me?

Assuming your neighbor/friend is intelligent, there will be a paper trail (bill of sale) that would lead directly to you.

Are you dumb enough to sell a firearm without having a bill of sale?

If I had no way of knowing he was a criminal would I be in any trouble?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

So I buy a gun from a neighbor who bought it from a friend. I then sell to somebody who ends up being a criminal. How does that come back to me?

Assuming your neighbor/friend is intelligent, there will be a paper trail (bill of sale) that would lead directly to you.

Are you dumb enough to sell a firearm without having a bill of sale?

Is a bill of sale required? Is any paper trail required? So rather than a background check your relying on people being smart?

It's only required if you want to protect yourself and somewhat absolve yourself of any criminal act that may be used with said firearm.

A background check has already been done when the firearm was purchased. If you choose to then resell the firearm to someone of questionable character then it's in your best interest to document it with a bill of sale.

Yes you rely on people being smart, unfortunately that characteristic cannot be enforced by any law.

 

[mudwhistle]

So I buy a gun from a neighbor who bought it from a friend. I then sell to somebody who ends up being a criminal. How does that come back to me?

Assuming your neighbor/friend is intelligent, there will be a paper trail (bill of sale) that would lead directly to you.

Are you dumb enough to sell a firearm without having a bill of sale?

If I had no way of knowing he was a criminal would I be in any trouble?

If the gun was registered it has been test fired, so if the weapon pops up on ballistics from the test fire you could be in deep shit. You'll discover an empty casing in the container your gun was delivered in, telling the owner it's ballistics have been recorded. Guns that were handed out during Fast & Furious have been traced to hundreds of shootings along the border in this manner.

Go talk to a licensed dealer. He'll tell you everything you need to know.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

So I buy a gun from a neighbor who bought it from a friend. I then sell to somebody who ends up being a criminal. How does that come back to me?

Assuming your neighbor/friend is intelligent, there will be a paper trail (bill of sale) that would lead directly to you.

Are you dumb enough to sell a firearm without having a bill of sale?

If I had no way of knowing he was a criminal would I be in any trouble?

Well if your dumb enough to sell a gun to someone you don't know and NOT have a bill of sale there may be criminal or civil liabilities.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Assuming your neighbor/friend is intelligent, there will be a paper trail (bill of sale) that would lead directly to you.

Are you dumb enough to sell a firearm without having a bill of sale?

If I had no way of knowing he was a criminal would I be in any trouble?

If the gun was registered it has been test fired, so if the weapon pops up on ballistics from the test fire you could be in deep shit. You'll discover an empty casing in the container your gun was delivered in, telling the owner it's ballistics have been recorded. Guns that were handed out during Fast & Furious have been traced to hundreds of shootings along the border in this manner.

Go talk to a licensed dealer. He'll tell you everything you need to know.

I am a licensed dealer. Have been for almost 20 years.

 

[mudwhistle]

If I had no way of knowing he was a criminal would I be in any trouble?

If the gun was registered it has been test fired, so if the weapon pops up on ballistics from the test fire you could be in deep shit. You'll discover an empty casing in the container your gun was delivered in, telling the owner it's ballistics have been recorded. Guns that were handed out during Fast & Furious have been traced to hundreds of shootings along the border in this manner.

Go talk to a licensed dealer. He'll tell you everything you need to know.

I am a licensed dealer. Have been for almost 20 years.

That's not good enough for anti-gun nutters.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

If the gun was registered it has been test fired, so if the weapon pops up on ballistics from the test fire you could be in deep shit. You'll discover an empty casing in the container your gun was delivered in, telling the owner it's ballistics have been recorded. Guns that were handed out during Fast & Furious have been traced to hundreds of shootings along the border in this manner.

Go talk to a licensed dealer. He'll tell you everything you need to know.

I am a licensed dealer. Have been for almost 20 years.

That's not good enough for anti-gun nutters.

Those people do more to help my sales than any other group.

 

[mudwhistle]

You cannot buy a gun for anyone. That is now strictly prohibited in my state.

That's dumb. If you're buying it for a person who can legally own or purchase a firearm then it should be perfectly legal.

I know of no one who would buy a gun for someone who is not legally eligible to own one.

Think about it, would you buy a gun for a criminal?

Who do you think the gun is going to come back to once he's found in possession of it?

It will come back to the person that bought it which would then make that person a possible accessory to whatever crime was committed.

Common sense escapes the liberal mind.

How does it come back to you? You buy the gun and sell to a criminal. Then claim it was stolen.

Better fill out a police report immediately after the sale or you're going to jail. And better hope the criminal doesn't flip on you.

 

[mudwhistle]

I am a licensed dealer. Have been for almost 20 years.

That's not good enough for anti-gun nutters.

Those people do more to help my sales than any other group.

They drive up the price of ammo.....friggen bastages.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

That's not good enough for anti-gun nutters.

Those people do more to help my sales than any other group.

They drive up the price of ammo.....friggen bastages.

Well they do drive up the demand which of course drives up the prices. But, it will get better in the future.

 

[Spoonman]

What they didn't tell you is that the employee was probably fired under company policy. I remember those days. The one time the two punks tried to rob me on delievery I beat them with a rock, my hands and a piece of a 2X4. Good times. That was a tough scrape.

As well she should be.

The first time a pizza delivery person shoots someone who makes them nervous, that's a nice big deep pocket for the lawyers of the deceased to tap into.

then perhaps the pizza company should provide armed security service for their delivery service. or perhaps stop making deliveries in high risk neighborhoods until those communities or the local police can guarantee the safety of the delivery people.

 

[Spoonman]

Those people do more to help my sales than any other group.

They drive up the price of ammo.....friggen bastages.

Well they do drive up the demand which of course drives up the prices. But, it will get better in the future.

Liberals claim the NRA is all about boosting gun sales, when in reality the real boosters of guns sales are obama and the gun grabbers. They have fueled the now fastest growing industry in the united states more than the NRA ever has or could.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

They drive up the price of ammo.....friggen bastages.

Well they do drive up the demand which of course drives up the prices. But, it will get better in the future.

Liberals claim the NRA is all about boosting gun sales, when in reality the real boosters of guns sales are obama and the gun grabbers. They have fueled the now fastest growing industry in the united states more than the NRA ever has or could.

You sir are correct.

The NRA would much rather see prices go down. As a lifetime member and former board member nominee I can with absolute certainty tell you that the NRA does not profit from any sales of firearms or ammunition.

 

[Spoonman]

Well they do drive up the demand which of course drives up the prices. But, it will get better in the future.

Liberals claim the NRA is all about boosting gun sales, when in reality the real boosters of guns sales are obama and the gun grabbers. They have fueled the now fastest growing industry in the united states more than the NRA ever has or could.

You sir are correct.

The NRA would much rather see prices go down. As a lifetime member and former board member nominee I can with absolute certainty tell you that the NRA does not profit from any sales of firearms or ammunition.

The plethora of liberal lies against the NRA is amazing. you have to wonder, are they outright liars, or are they just totally clueless.

 

[Brain357]

Assuming your neighbor/friend is intelligent, there will be a paper trail (bill of sale) that would lead directly to you.

Are you dumb enough to sell a firearm without having a bill of sale?

Is a bill of sale required? Is any paper trail required? So rather than a background check your relying on people being smart?

It's only required if you want to protect yourself and somewhat absolve yourself of any criminal act that may be used with said firearm.

A background check has already been done when the firearm was purchased. If you choose to then resell the firearm to someone of questionable character then it's in your best interest to document it with a bill of sale.

Yes you rely on people being smart, unfortunately that characteristic cannot be enforced by any law.

So I was right, all gun sales do not require a background check. But you knew that, why lie about it? I get tired correcting you guys.

 

[mudwhistle]

Is a bill of sale required? Is any paper trail required? So rather than a background check your relying on people being smart?

It's only required if you want to protect yourself and somewhat absolve yourself of any criminal act that may be used with said firearm.

A background check has already been done when the firearm was purchased. If you choose to then resell the firearm to someone of questionable character then it's in your best interest to document it with a bill of sale.

Yes you rely on people being smart, unfortunately that characteristic cannot be enforced by any law.

So I was right, all gun sales do not require a background check. But you knew that, why lie about it? I get tired correcting you guys.

Being brain-dead is a common trait with liberals.

You're expecting a law to be absolute. I already said laws are only for people who obey the law. Anyone who decides to break the law can go around the law. A law on the books is not dummy-proof.

The point is you folks are more concerned with innocent gun owners than criminals, and you want to turn the innocent into criminals through constantly changing regulations.

Crimea is a perfect example of why you should arm your citizens. Their army and navy is useless. The Russians just rolled over them overnight. The only people who seem to desire a defenseless population is despots and liberals.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Is a bill of sale required? Is any paper trail required? So rather than a background check your relying on people being smart?

It's only required if you want to protect yourself and somewhat absolve yourself of any criminal act that may be used with said firearm.

A background check has already been done when the firearm was purchased. If you choose to then resell the firearm to someone of questionable character then it's in your best interest to document it with a bill of sale.

Yes you rely on people being smart, unfortunately that characteristic cannot be enforced by any law.

So I was right, all gun sales do not require a background check. But you knew that, why lie about it? I get tired correcting you guys.

No you were not right. If you buy a firearm from a dealer, which most firearms are, a background check will have been made. In essence all dealers run background checks for all firearms.

 

[Brain357]

It's only required if you want to protect yourself and somewhat absolve yourself of any criminal act that may be used with said firearm.

A background check has already been done when the firearm was purchased. If you choose to then resell the firearm to someone of questionable character then it's in your best interest to document it with a bill of sale.

Yes you rely on people being smart, unfortunately that characteristic cannot be enforced by any law.

So I was right, all gun sales do not require a background check. But you knew that, why lie about it? I get tired correcting you guys.

No you were not right. If you buy a firearm from a dealer, which most firearms are, a background check will have been made. In essence all dealers run background checks for all firearms.

Even caught in a lie you keep going? We just went over several sales situations that do not get a background check. So all sales do not have background checks. I did not say from a dealer. I could sell you a gun with no check. That's a fact!!!

 

[Lonestar_logic]

So I was right, all gun sales do not require a background check. But you knew that, why lie about it? I get tired correcting you guys.

No you were not right. If you buy a firearm from a dealer, which most firearms are, a background check will have been made. In essence all dealers run background checks for all firearms.

Even caught in a lie you keep going? We just went over several sales situations that do not get a background check. So all sales do not have background checks. I did not say from a dealer. I could sell you a gun with no check. That's a fact!!!

I haven't lied at all. I distinctly stated that every purchase from a dealer required a background check. That is a fact, not a lie.

You said and I quote "all gun sales do not require a background check", that is a lie since guns bought from a dealer do require background checks.

Now if you sell your neighbor a firearm you aren't require to perform a background check, however it does requires some level of intelligence on your part. You shouldn't sell without a bill of sale and you shouldn't sell to a known felon or anyone you suspect of not legally owning a firearm for the simple fact that the firearm can be traced back to you.