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VAT is fine - but that's not the issue. You said you wanted VAT on TOP of existing taxes - which is where they said "fuck you" to you, and your response was that your more conservative and that GOP would rather be left than center.
There is nothing dumber than every single one of you idiot liberal dumbocrats pretending your conservative because you think it will give you credibility. Making sensible posts gets you credibility - pretending to be a conservative while spouting communist non-sense gets you a reputation as an idiot and an asshole.
I'm not sure if you have studied VAT in other countries, but I am guessing not.
In EVERY country where VAT is instituted it works the same way.
Existing taxes remain, but are reduced by an amount which should mean that you pay a similar level of tax during the course of a year. You do NOT pay more tax.
The govt gains because of the money earned from the shadow economy.
This is conservative policy.
It's funny - here I am explaining tax policy to you, and all I get back is this mindless abuse. Do you think it might be worth saving the abuse for a topic you understand?
What exactly is your obsession with making the US just like every other country? The only thing you ever say is "the US doesn't have <insert issue here> like Europe does".
The US is now the only western democracy without VAT.
What exactly is your obsession with making the US just like every other country? The only thing you ever say is "the US doesn't have <insert issue here> like Europe does".
When I thoroughly schooled you on the gun debate, all you would do is compare UK homicides by gun to US homicides by gun, and then conclude that we need to implement UK gun policy in the US.
When I thoroughly schooled you on the auto industry, all you could say is how the UK had different laws and how the US needs to implement them.
Why are you so distrubed that the US is unique? Why are you so distrubed that the US has not conformed to the Europe? Are you a Nazi who feels that everyone must dress alike, goose step alike, and march in perfect timing?
Considering that before Obama - who is implementing European socialism - we were light years ahead of Spain (economic collapse), Greece (economic collapse), England (economic collapse), and the rest, I'd say it's pretty clear you're the fucking idiots and we're the fucking geniuses.
Rottie -
In no case have I ever said the US should adopt anyone else's laws, and certainly not the UK's.
What I have said is that the US should be willing to look at policies from around the globe. It is the best way of getting a handle on what has worked in the past, and what might work well in US conditions. All countries should be doing this - and I think most are.
Given the US has 5 times as many homocides as any other developed country, this is one area where any sensible person is going to want to find solutions which saves lives.
Likewise with tax law, CONSERVATIVE posters here will be well aware of what conservatives have tried in other countries, and will know how effecitve VAT has been in increasing savings and actually lowering real taxes.
btw. You will likely never "school" any poster on this forum. You simply are not well enough informed, you are not fast enough, and you are not particularly literate. Just saying "I skooled Uo" everytime you feel you may be looking silly only confirms that you are looking silly.
There is nothing conservative about adding yet another tax on top of income tax, property tax, sales tax, gasoline tax, capital gains tax, death tax, and the tax tax.
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SAigaon, I would not be in favor of a VAT if it allowed an existing taxes to remain, this isnt my first rodeo. a VAT is the fairest tax of all....and it gets everyone to contribute, so no longer do you hear about people being paid under the table or like you said criminals still have to buy a few things, so they contribute. It's great and when you go to raise it, you have to explain to everyone why and you cant pit group against group.....which is the best thing about it. you have to tell the poor min wage worker why you want to spend another 10 billion on a light speed rail....good luck!
There is nothing conservative about adding yet another tax on top of income tax, property tax, sales tax, gasoline tax, capital gains tax, death tax, and the tax tax.
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Yes, of course there is!
I believe around 20 CONSERVATIVE governments around the world have done just this. It is conservative orthodoxy.
As mentioned earlier, it is considered conservative because:
- it lowers REAL taxes (i.e. the amount you ACTUALLY pay in the course of 1 year)
- it is not a progressive tax, if anything it is regressive
- it promotes peronal saving (which do not attract VAT)
- it targets the shadow economy, e.g. drug dealers, illegal immigrants.
I know you find this difficult to understand and accept, but perhaps do some reading on the internet and I'm sure you'll find the results interesting.
Rottie -
In no case have I ever said the US should adopt anyone else's laws, and certainly not the UK's.
What I have said is that the US should be willing to look at policies from around the globe. It is the best way of getting a handle on what has worked in the past, and what might work well in US conditions. All countries should be doing this - and I think most are.
Given the US has 5 times as many homocides as any other developed country, this is one area where any sensible person is going to want to find solutions which saves lives.
Likewise with tax law, CONSERVATIVE posters here will be well aware of what conservatives have tried in other countries, and will know how effecitve VAT has been in increasing savings and actually lowering real taxes.
btw. You will likely never "school" any poster on this forum. You simply are not well enough informed, you are not fast enough, and you are not particularly literate. Just saying "I skooled Uo" everytime you feel you may be looking silly only confirms that you are looking silly.
What I have said is that the US should be willing to look at policies from around the globe
Rotweiler -
What I have said is that the US should be willing to look at policies from around the globe
It is called common sense.
You don't think sports teams watch other team play to get ideas on tactics and strategy?
You don't think scientists read each others research to get fresh ideas and new information?
You don't think companies like Nike look at what Adidas makes and how it markets those products - and visa versa?
No, you just want to live in a concrete bunker, devoid of ideas and solutions.
btw. Prague is not a country.
Why is 30% "fair?" Why is paying more than you pay now "fair?"
Because it would allow the state to function.
Apprently you do not want sewerage, road, street lighting etc to be provided, but many people do.
A 30% flat tax rate is the lowest level that could sustain those services.
Or you could go with the more conservative model, and adopt a VAT.
More examples of how ignorant of the United States Saigon is... He has no idea that the federal government is NOT involved in any capacity with sewage, roads, street lights, etc.
No they wouldn't.Who cares???
10% is plenty of money to run the gov't and protect the people... Everything else is just poorly spent money. What does the gov't do better than the private sector?
Unfortunately no country in the world has ever been foolih enough to try the idea, and I think most of us undertand why not.
The US would be bankrupt within a month.
No they wouldn't.
They are bankrupt right now, but I don't see you complaining about that.
A nail hammered into wood had never been tried until the first time it happened. From that, we have skyscrapers. Never tried is no excuse for never trying.
Wasn't addressed to me... But... I agree with what you are saying.Rotweiler -
What I have said is that the US should be willing to look at policies from around the globe
It is called common sense.
You don't think sports teams watch other team play to get ideas on tactics and strategy?
You don't think scientists read each others research to get fresh ideas and new information?
You don't think companies like Nike look at what Adidas makes and how it markets those products - and visa versa?
No, you just want to live in a concrete bunker, devoid of ideas and solutions.
btw. Prague is not a country.
I see you saying it. But that's just it... You're saying it. You saying it doesn't mean anything to me.Shelzin -
As I mentioned earlier, flat taxes have been used in most of the transitional economies of the forer Soviet Union, because the average incomes were so staggeringly low that the flat tax did not mean a massive tax hike for many people.
It is a plan and simple fact that if the US introduces a flat tax rate, it would need to be around 30%.
Most low and middle income Americans WILL pay more.
It is a plan and simple fact that if the US introduces a flat tax rate, it would need to be around 30%. .
Saigon ~ That is unproven.Shelzin -
A 10% flat tax rate would not work, and could not work because it would cause such a massive drop in tax revenues.
Consider this point. We stop spending government money on stupid political shit and wars. A flat tax without dropping some seriously bullshit thing will not work. You are absolutely correct.Consider these points:
The US federal government earns 82% of it income from personal and payroll taxes.
The US federal tax revenues in 2010 were $2.2 trillion.
Thus a flat tax rate of 10% would create a new budget shortfall of somewhere around $1 trillion per year.
You would have to borrow that money. It's that simple.
