What is the Christian equivalent of this belief?

[emilynghiem]

Erin Pavlina

I ran into someone who started in on this idea that we "choose" our parents and life conditions to be born into.

I believe there are WAY too many factors involved in the orchestra of life,
and one cannot just isolate parents/partners as choices in a sea of interconnected factors in a contiguous story.

Can anyone explain to me the Christian equivalent of this?
I tried to explain that we "choose to accept" by way of forgiving what we find is conflicting or negative.
But we did not CHOOSE all these things; that's far too many choices to put on an individual.

What is your spiritual explanation or equivalent of this concept?

I've met other people who believe that spiritually before being born
you are shown as much as possible about your life, you agree to it,
then the memory is wiped away and you get to live that life. What the?

Can someone explain how this helps anyone? I don't get the point of teaching it that way.

 

[Agit8r]

One can forgive others without choosing to accept being victimized by them

...at least for a non-believer like me.

 

[gtopa1]

Sounds dumb to me. I think Wordsworth said something about it:

Ode on Intimations of Immortality from Recollections of Early Childhood Academy of American Poets

Our birth is but a sleep and a forgetting;
The Soul that rises with us, our life’s Star,
Hath had elsewhere its setting
And cometh from afar;
Not in entire forgetfulness,
And not in utter nakedness,
But trailing clouds of glory do we come
From God, who is our home:
Heaven lies about us in our infancy!
Shades of the prison-house begin to close
Upon the growing Boy,
But he beholds the light, and whence it flows,
He sees it in his joy;
The Youth, who daily farther from the east
Must travel, still is Nature’s priest,
And by the vision splendid
Is on his way attended;
At length the Man perceives it die away,
And fade into the light of common day.

I've heard of stuff like this before but give it zero cred.

Greg

 

[Grandma]

Erin Pavlina


Can anyone explain to me the Christian equivalent of this?


What is your spiritual explanation or equivalent of this concept?

I've met other people who believe that spiritually before being born
you are shown as much as possible about your life, you agree to it,
then the memory is wiped away and you get to live that life. What the?

Can someone explain how this helps anyone? I don't get the point of teaching it that way.

There is no christian equivalent.

Eastern religions and paganism are the sources.

The concept is that you don't complete your spiritual journey in the space of one lifetime. It takes several, in different settings and circumstances, before one truly understands things on a higher level and achieves enlightenment. Only after one achieves enlightenment can one stay on the Other Side (Heaven, if you will) forever.

 

[there4eyeM]

In a very grand sense, it accepts responsibility and denies victim-hood. In that way, I think the concept has some value in contributing to a reasonable approach to interpreting 'life'. The closest Christian equivalent would be the simple acceptance of 'God's will'; i.e., not complaining because we are happy in the hands of our creator. God's will is our will.

 

[MaxGrit]

Ephesians 1 English Standard Version (ESV)

Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,

To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus:

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love toward all the saints, I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Nearest equivilent I'm aware of is the Mormon belief of preexistence where they promise God to abide by His law, be Mormons, and thus earn their life. Or something like that.

 

[emilynghiem]

Erin Pavlina


Can anyone explain to me the Christian equivalent of this?


What is your spiritual explanation or equivalent of this concept?

I've met other people who believe that spiritually before being born
you are shown as much as possible about your life, you agree to it,
then the memory is wiped away and you get to live that life. What the?

Can someone explain how this helps anyone? I don't get the point of teaching it that way.

There is no christian equivalent.

Eastern religions and paganism are the sources.

The concept is that you don't complete your spiritual journey in the space of one lifetime. It takes several, in different settings and circumstances, before one truly understands things on a higher level and achieves enlightenment. Only after one achieves enlightenment can one stay on the Other Side (Heaven, if you will) forever.

Thank you Grandma I believe some of the spiritual gifts knowledge and experience can be passed on to future generations in a cumulative learning curve, but don't see it as those souls reincarnating just because the strengths and weaknesses are passed on.

And I don't get how can a soul be expected to choose when you wouldn't understand enough to make an educated choice until after you experience that path. And if so, then why take that path if you already know it. I do understand that within the life, ppl need to understand the conditions they face, before choosing to try something, including which things can go wrong or unknowns and be unconditional. But to try to choose all the choices in advance before being born, why would that even be necessary.

It seems more like denial not acceptance. It sounds like NOT being at peace that more is going on we have no choice in. But trying to overcompensate and say we agreed to this in the past before we started. What's wrong with agreeing in the present. or agreeing there will be a fulfilling conclusion at the end before we get there. We dont have to have had full conscious knowledge of where things are leading before we agree to go that path. Is this just another way of expressing faith the path is what we would choose anyway if we knew it? I almost get how the concepts align but the wording sounds weird as if you could know all the interconnected choices in advance before agreeing? Dont see how that is necessary, as the point is not to rely on conditions of knowing things in advance because it could change or we could be wrong so the point is to be unconditional.

 

[emilynghiem]

In a very grand sense, it accepts responsibility and denies victim-hood. In that way, I think the concept has some value in contributing to a reasonable approach to interpreting 'life'. The closest Christian equivalent would be the simple acceptance of 'God's will'; i.e., not complaining because we are happy in the hands of our creator. God's will is our will.

Thanks there4eyeM I agree the point is acceptance and faith the will is one and reconciled, but don't agree it relies on a condition of advanced knowledge. That's not the same as unconditional acceptance and faith that the purposes and plans in life are the greatest good if the only reason you are at peace is you believe you must have agreed to it in the past. Is this like the co creator mentality where ppl.believe you choose your own fate. That is a lot to choose since the fate of all ppl and things are interconnected. So how did all the people in history manage to make choices affecting each other simultaneously. I think this must be some extreme form.of saying there is no self or individual will, only the collective will that decides all these things together. I dont see how all that can be broken down into individual choices in advance. Maybe this guy was talking about the collective process as a whole?

Ps what strikes me as off with this guy is he has taught ppl that rape is part of the raped person's choices and karma, which I see as trying to "overcompensate" to not feel victimized. This isn't necessary for forgiveness and acceptance to take it THAT far. In the past when this came up, I explained there is collective karma -- if we as a society do not address and cure the causes of criminal violence and illness or addiction, behind rape or drunk driving or war etc., then innocent ppl can suffer and die to force society to motivate change. That does not mean that particular crime victim did or chose something to be the focus or target.

I wad disturbed when I found he us still teaching this same thing. He didn't believe it was necessary for scientific studies to prove how criminal illness or addiction can be treated monitored or cured like other diseases with a wide range of degrees, but then he teaches that this is brought on by someone's fear of rape that attracted a rapist to rape them. That's not looking at the root cause. The fear in the person raped is not why this happened to them, although overcoming that by forgiveness and healing resolves the issues and factors that otherwise alliw abuses and crimes to occur instead of preventing them.

We agree the point is to understand why these things happen, so there is no need to fear, but the fear is not what attracted this to happen, thr fear is a sign there isnt knowledge of cause and cure. I dont agree with the explanation of the cause, that this person "agreed in advance to go through rape before being born" in order to ne at peace with it. I find true peace means not relying on knowing,but being unconditional and accepting regardless what we chose choose or don't.

I'm rather flabbergasted and disturbed that a60 year old man would be teaching that to a 20 year old as a way of explaining away and making peace with rape. Why not address the sickness and karma on the side of the rapist or all sick ppl if this person got away. I understand the benefit of forgiving but how does that require you to believe you agreed to things in advance. Isn't that conditional and the power in forgiveness is unconditional?

 

[emilynghiem]

Ephesians 1 English Standard Version (ESV)

Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,

To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are . faithful in Christ Jesus:

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love toward all the saints, I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all

Thank you MaxGrit
I tend to relate more to the concept of God and collective will and knowledge.

This weird way of overdoing the oneness of God where individuals have no self at all is problematic where ppl think they must know all things in advance to be at peace and not have fear. Maybe this guy is trying to say that but says it differently. I know I sound foreign to ppl when I express it in my terms.

If I can resolve this with the younger person who agrees and gets his way of saying it, maybe she can translate between the two ways and get the root principle about God's will or the collective will being greater than the sum of the parts. Maybe I will ask her help to mediate between us since they understand each other and what he means.

I think his way of elevating some ppl as having more knowledge than others get judgmental and divisive, I find that disjunction does more to block understanding than just fear in itself he seems to focus on as the cause of blocks. There is more to be resolved even without fear added on top which is not the root cause in itself. He did understand forgiveness is key,.so we agree on that, but not on the fear factor which is part of the process but not a onesided cause.

I sense some other conditions he added on, like preconditioned knowledge and acceptance, which I am guessing is overexplaining or overcmpensating for not looking at concurrent factors we dont choose or control.