what is the difference?

[Mohamed]

you have two objects:

1) a modern car with a well designed motor, beautifully painted external body, braking system, and equipped with accelerometers to sense acceleration, and on-board microcontroller to aid in control... etc.

when you see such object, you wonder about his manufacturer, you know that many engineers were involved in the design - testing- manufacturing of this object, and it required them many iterations of design-testing- correction- modifying design to produce this final product. in addition, you know it will require continuous maintainence that should be conducted according its manufacturers' guidance. if this (object) is produced in your country, you will be proud of the people who produced it.

2) a cat !: it has very flexible body shape with many many actuators that allows it to move with a big number of degrees of freedom more than any human-made robot. it have a very developed sensory system that includes vision, hearing, touching,... etc. it has a very complicated and developed sensory-data processing system that can analyze pictures and quickly recognize its meaning. it has very complicated control system which is able to control its overwhelming actuator system.

ok, what do you think about it? would you wonder who (made) it as you did in the first case?
if not, tell me the difference from the first case?

 

[Steven_R]

Cut to the chase. Is this a thread about the merits of Intelligent Design?

 

[Indeependent]

Cats clean their own feces.

 

[TheOldSchool]

Cats clean their own feces.

Cars are fun.

 

[BreezeWood]

a difference is one recreates itself, is living and is never identical from one to the other and never will be for all eternity.

.

 

[Mohamed]

a difference is one recreates itself, is living and is never identical from one to the other and never will be for all eternity.

with all technological and scientific advance humans are still unable to produce a product that reproduces itself and remains forever. this means designing/manufacturing such (system) is a more advanced than the best humans can do.
so the question arises again.
the cat -that reproduce and last for generations without any need for external maintenance- is a very advanced complicated system not even achievable with human's most advanced technology.

would you wonder who created this system or not?

 

[Steven_R]

You're assuming there was some kind of a creator for cats. Show me the creator of cats.

 

[Mohamed]

You're assuming there was some kind of a creator for cats. Show me the creator of cats.

will you use the same type of reasoning with a car?

you will deny that it was manufactured by live beings until you see them?

 

[Mohamed]

Show me the creator of cats.

poor man, you can't even afford looking directly at the sun. do you think will be able to see God?

 

[alang1216]

Here's my question:

If every snowflake is different does God design and build each and every one or did he design the laws of nature that snowflakes obey when they build themselves?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Show me the creator of cats.

poor man, you can't even afford looking directly at the sun. do you think will be able to see God?

You can't see what does not exist

 

[Mohamed]

If every snowflake is different does God design and build each and every one or did he design the laws of nature that snowflakes obey when they build themselves?

although many of us may not be aware of the technical details of how products like car and processors are designed and manufactured, they are very certain that there is some living being that created them. many people will not even bother how these products are really (created).

the important question that have strong impact on our lives and of practical value is:

Do God created the world?
the answer is : of course yes.

the question of (how God created the universe?) really is much less important. i may even not bother about it.

we have some insufficient clues, we add to them many (gusses) and many postulates. it is very difficult to be sure about this issue.
we are like some illiterate blind person who can't even read or write and questions about (the appearance) of a black hole (which doesn't allow any light to escape?) 's interior.

 

[Mohamed]

You can't see what does not exist

you can't see electrons, neutrons, quarks. you can't see black holes. you can't see any object that doesn't emit electromagnetic waves in the narrow electromagnetic spectrum that God designed you to see within it.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Here's my question:

If every snowflake is different does God design and build each and every one or did he design the laws of nature that snowflakes obey when they build themselves?

Think God made this one at least

 

[Steven_R]

You can't see what does not exist

you can't see electrons, neutrons, quarks. you can't see black holes. you can't see any object that doesn't emit electromagnetic waves in the narrow electromagnetic spectrum that God designed you to see within it.

Then let's restate:

You cannot find objective proof for the existence of that which does not exist.

We have all kinds of evidence for the existence of electrons, neutrons, quarks, and the entire EM band. I'm still waiting for proof of the Almighty that doesn't rely on the Bible or spirituality.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You can't see what does not exist

you can't see electrons, neutrons, quarks. you can't see black holes. you can't see any object that doesn't emit electromagnetic waves in the narrow electromagnetic spectrum that God designed you to see within it.

Sorry but if there is a god he is not the biblical god. I liken him more to a petulant 5 year old with a magnifying glass torturing the residents of his ant farm.

And we have seen the tracks of electrons in a cloud chamber, we know that black holes exist because we can measure their gravitational pull

We do not know that there is a god. And don't sight as evidence life on earth. Just because we may not know how the universe began or exactly how life started does not mean that a god created them.

In fact we very well may be incapable of understanding these things just as my dog will never be capable of understanding calculus.

So when and if a supreme being shows himself to me then I'll believe. I refuse to take the word of some 2000 year old writings that have been pieced together and embellished by who knows how many people as proof.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Do God created the world?

Which god?

the answer is : of course yes.

Prove it.

 

[alang1216]

If every snowflake is different does God design and build each and every one or did he design the laws of nature that snowflakes obey when they build themselves?

although many of us may not be aware of the technical details of how products like car and processors are designed and manufactured, they are very certain that there is some living being that created them. many people will not even bother how these products are really (created).

the important question that have strong impact on our lives and of practical value is:

Do God created the world?
the answer is : of course yes.

the question of (how God created the universe?) really is much less important. i may even not bother about it.

we have some insufficient clues, we add to them many (gusses) and many postulates. it is very difficult to be sure about this issue.
we are like some illiterate blind person who can't even read or write and questions about (the appearance) of a black hole (which doesn't allow any light to escape?) 's interior.

That snowflake is formed according to the laws of molecular phyiscs. Everyone of the trillions of water molecules that make it up form a recognizable structure because they follow a pattern. They may look like complex works of art but no intelligence was required to create them. The same is true for all life. It may be incredably complex but it formed from the simple laws of evolution. Natural selection over immense spans of time. Occam's razor

 

[Mohamed]

That snowflake is formed according to the laws of molecular phyiscs. Everyone of the trillions of water molecules that make it up form a recognizable structure because they follow a pattern. They may look like complex works of art but no intelligence was required to create them. The same is true for all life. It may be incredably complex but it formed from the simple laws of evolution. Natural selection over immense spans of time. Occam's razor

[/QUOTE]

i can make similar statement

That snowflake is formed according to the laws of molecular phyiscs. Everyone of the trillions of water molecules that make it up form a recognizable structure because they follow a pattern. They may look like complex works of art but no intelligence was required to create them. The same is true for all integrated circuits. It may be incredably complex but it formed from the simple laws of evolution. Natural selection over immense spans of time.

i think this statement is more reasonable than the first one since the similarity between integrated circuits and snowflakes is more than that between the live cell and snowflake

 

[alang1216]

That snowflake is formed according to the laws of molecular phyiscs. Everyone of the trillions of water molecules that make it up form a recognizable structure because they follow a pattern. They may look like complex works of art but no intelligence was required to create them. The same is true for all life. It may be incredably complex but it formed from the simple laws of evolution. Natural selection over immense spans of time. Occam's razor

i can make similar statement

That snowflake is formed according to the laws of molecular phyiscs. Everyone of the trillions of water molecules that make it up form a recognizable structure because they follow a pattern. They may look like complex works of art but no intelligence was required to create them. The same is true for all integrated circuits. It may be incredably complex but it formed from the simple laws of evolution. Natural selection over immense spans of time.

i think this statement is more reasonable than the first one since the similarity between integrated circuits and snowflakes is more than that between the live cell and snowflake

You can make any statement you wish but you would be unable to demonstrate how natural selection operates on integrated circuits.