What is the goal of capitalism?

As I wrote above, in the USSR (at least officially) there was no unemployment. Many businesses needed workers. But labor productivity was low.
What businesses are you referring to? Where is the data showing that their employees were "unproductive"? Was this in the middle of the revolution? When Soviet Russia was fighting 200K foreign troops within Russia and the white capitalist army? Until Stalin's five-year plans (true, well-organized central planning), Soviet Russia was fighting a brutal war, against foreign and domestic enemies. The Soviet Union became the second-largest economy in the world and a nuclear superpower. That's impossible if Russian socialists were lazy, as you insinuate. Maybe they didn't want to work for capitalists, how about that?

Once the cat is out of the bag and you learn the truth about capitalism, you may not want to work for capitalists anymore. You don't appreciate the totalitarian nature of capitalist employment and production, where you have no say whatsoever on how the enterprise is run. Although socialism in the Soviet Union became dictatorial, it had more democratic elements than the average privately-run business enterprise. There were worker-counsels and you could always join the communist party. There were more mechanisms in place for workers to change the conditions of the workplace, under Soviet socialism than there are now in the capitalist-owned workplace. Employers under capitalism run their companies like totalitarian regimes.
 
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Your assumption is wrong. Keeping people on poverty wages, dependent on government subsidies is more expensive than employing them. Both economically and socially it's more expensive.



Infrastructure development and a host of other tasks which I've already mentioned and you conveniently ignore. The supply of needed goods and services translates into less poverty, less social instability, more peace, freedom, and better health. etc. Poverty is devastating. When people don't have enough to meet their basic needs, it creates chaos in their lives and in their environment (crime, substance abuse, incarceration, broken families, bad health). Making sure everyone has a job that allows them to meet their needs, acquire a valuable skill, and an education, stimulates economic growth. It's good for everyone.



Airlines aren't nationalized or run by the government. They can become pilots in the military or in some othe government agency. Yes indeed. With training, some of them could do that. How is that hilarious? There are many jobs they can do, I already provided a list.

Capitalists would have to compete with the government to attract and keep workers, and that's good. Higher wages for everyone. They want a desperate working class, that will accept whatever horrible terms are offered to them by their wealthy, powerful employers.

Keeping people on poverty wages, dependent on government subsidies is more expensive than employing them.

Walmart wages reduce the amount of government subsidy they need. Giving them a full-time higher paying make work job will multiply their subsidy.

And don't forget the inflation!!!

Infrastructure development and a host of other tasks which I've already mentioned and you conveniently ignore.

I didn't ignore it, I mocked it.

The supply of needed goods and services translates into less poverty, less social instability, more peace, freedom, and better health. etc.


The unreliable, unemployables you'd hire aren't going to be producing needed goods and services that consumers want to buy.
 
I'm all for buying American.
Problem is nothing is made here anymore.
With taxes being so high it just makes sense to go overseas to have a product made.
For every prospective new American Business (and there can be some) we need to cut off some foreign trade deal of equal size at the same time. There needs to be both a push and a pull to turn this economy around. If we add two new manufacturing entities in the US but add 10 new Chinese ones at the same time that just doesn't cut the mustard. We have made ourselves dependent on China and it's not a case of just cutting it off it has to be a slow and gradual pull out that doesn't tear our roots in the process. A less aggressive and more covert and subtle approach to what Trump was doing would probably be the most practical approach.
 
Keeping people on poverty wages, dependent on government subsidies is more expensive than employing them.

Walmart wages reduce the amount of government subsidy they need. Giving them a full-time higher paying make work job will multiply their subsidy.

And don't forget the inflation!!!

Infrastructure development and a host of other tasks which I've already mentioned and you conveniently ignore.

I didn't ignore it, I mocked it.

The supply of needed goods and services translates into less poverty, less social instability, more peace, freedom, and better health. etc.

The unreliable, unemployables you'd hire aren't going to be producing needed goods and services that consumers want to buy.

Walmart wages reduce the amount of government subsidy they need. Giving them a full-time higher paying make work job will multiply their subsidy.

Society shouldn't allow employers to pay less than what is required for a person to meet their basic needs, like housing, food..etc. So if you're complicit to the demands of capitalists having the freedom to pay whatever they want to their workers ("market freedom"), without any consideration for that worker's basic needs, then the working class can exercise its political freedom to protect its interests, translating into government legislative protections for labor unions and price controls for cost-of-living goods and services. Food, rent, utilities..etc.

Todd the capitalist, can engage in commerce within the parameters set by society, which ensures no one is homeless and starving. Capitalism shouldn't be all about profits. Leaving everything up to the market doesn't allow a society to function, because market adjustments can result in social degradation and upheaval, including civil war. Flesh and blood needs food, housing..etc.

And don't forget the inflation!!!

There's no evidence that there would be inflation if everyone who can work has a job. Too much money, chasing after too little goods and services, could be a problem if the jobs being filled in that economy, don't increase production or contribute to economic growth, but that's exactly the type of jobs that would be filled. Tasks that contribute positively to the nation's economy. The situation isn't as simple as "the government giving people free money". People are working, building, producing..etc, hence the economy grows.

I didn't ignore it, I mocked it.

You're mocking it due to your ignorance and hubris. People can be trained:


..and put to work. Your claim that those who are poor are stupid and lazy is shortsighted and ignores their human potential for becoming productive.

The unreliable, unemployables you'd hire aren't going to be producing needed goods and services that consumers want to buy.

Those who are living in poverty and need assistance, aren't necessarily in their current situation due to being unreliable, immoral, lazy, or stupid. Even when that is the case, people can change, when given an opportunity to do so. A lot of bad behavior is caused by trauma, a sense of hopelessness, and a lack of direction and purpose. If these people were given an opportunity to work and earn a living wage, including getting trained in a trade, allowing them to elevate their standard of living, they would do it. You're assumption that these people lack the potential to become skilled workers is wrong and your assertion that all productive work that contributes positively to our economy requires advanced skills is also incorrect.

People need to earn enough to eat, house themselves, have access to education, healthcare..etc. When the government feeds and houses adults, of working age, it should only be because they can't work for themselves. They have a physical or mental disability, that impairs their ability to support themselves. Any member of our workforce that is employed full-time, should make enough money to eat, have a roof over their heads and have access to healthcare and an education. They should not be on public assistance, but rather earning a living wage, that covers at least, their basic needs.
 
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Society shouldn't allow employers to pay less than what is required for a person to meet their basic needs, like housing, food..etc. So if you're complicit to the demands of capitalists having the freedom to pay whatever they want to their workers ("market freedom"), without any consideration for that worker's basic needs, then the working class can exercise its political freedom to protect its interests, translating into government legislative protections for labor unions and price controls for cost-of-living goods and services. Food, rent, utilities..etc.

Todd the capitalist, can engage in commerce within the parameters set by society, which ensures no one is homeless and starving. Capitalism shouldn't be all about profits. Leaving everything up to the market doesn't allow a society to function, because market adjustments can result in social degradation and upheaval, including civil war. Flesh and blood needs food, housing..etc.



There's no evidence that there would be inflation if everyone who can work has a job. Too much money, chasing after too little goods and services, could be a problem if those jobs being filled don't increase production or contribute to economic growth, but that's exactly the type of jobs that would be filled. Tasks that contribute positively to the nation's economy. The situation isn't as simple as "the government giving people free money". People are working, building, producing..etc, hence the economy grows.

I didn't ignore it, I mocked it.

You're mocking it due to ignorance and hubris. People can be trained:


..and put to work. Your claim that those who are poor are stupid and lazy is shortsighted and ignores their human potential for becoming productive.



Those who are living in poverty and need assistance, aren't necessarily in their current situation due to being unreliable, immoral, lazy, or stupid. Even when that is the case, people can change, when given an opportunity to do so. A lot of bad behavior is caused by trauma, a sense of hopelessness, and a lack of direction and purpose. If these people were given an opportunity to work and earn a living wage, including getting trained in a trade, allowing them to elevate their standard of living, they would do it. You're assumption that these people lack the potential to become skilled workers is wrong and your assertion that all productive work that contributes positively to our economy requires advanced skills is also incorrect.

People need to earn enough to eat, house themselves, have access to education, healthcare..etc. When the government feeds and houses adults, of working age, it should only be because they can't work for themselves. They have a physical or mental disability, that impairs their ability to support themselves. Any member of our workforce that is employed full-time, should make enough money to eat, have a roof over their heads and have access to healthcare and an education. They should not be on public assistance, but rather earning a living wage, that covers at least, their basic needs.

Society shouldn't allow employers to pay less than what is required for a person to meet their basic needs

LOL!

Todd the capitalist, can engage in commerce within the parameters set by society, which ensures no one is homeless and starving.

If only our government could spend money to help the low-skilled worker survive.
 
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Society shouldn't allow employers to pay less than what is required for a person to meet their basic needs, like housing, food..etc. So if you're complicit to the demands of capitalists having the freedom to pay whatever they want to their workers ("market freedom"), without any consideration for that worker's basic needs, then the working class can exercise its political freedom to protect its interests, translating into government legislative protections for labor unions and price controls for cost-of-living goods and services. Food, rent, utilities..etc.

Todd the capitalist, can engage in commerce within the parameters set by society, which ensures no one is homeless and starving. Capitalism shouldn't be all about profits. Leaving everything up to the market doesn't allow a society to function, because market adjustments can result in social degradation and upheaval, including civil war. Flesh and blood needs food, housing..etc.



There's no evidence that there would be inflation if everyone who can work has a job. Too much money, chasing after too little goods and services, could be a problem if the jobs being filled in that economy, don't increase production or contribute to economic growth, but that's exactly the type of jobs that would be filled. Tasks that contribute positively to the nation's economy. The situation isn't as simple as "the government giving people free money". People are working, building, producing..etc, hence the economy grows.

I didn't ignore it, I mocked it.

You're mocking it due to ignorance and hubris. People can be trained:


..and put to work. Your claim that those who are poor are stupid and lazy is shortsighted and ignores their human potential for becoming productive.



Those who are living in poverty and need assistance, aren't necessarily in their current situation due to being unreliable, immoral, lazy, or stupid. Even when that is the case, people can change, when given an opportunity to do so. A lot of bad behavior is caused by trauma, a sense of hopelessness, and a lack of direction and purpose. If these people were given an opportunity to work and earn a living wage, including getting trained in a trade, allowing them to elevate their standard of living, they would do it. You're assumption that these people lack the potential to become skilled workers is wrong and your assertion that all productive work that contributes positively to our economy requires advanced skills is also incorrect.

People need to earn enough to eat, house themselves, have access to education, healthcare..etc. When the government feeds and houses adults, of working age, it should only be because they can't work for themselves. They have a physical or mental disability, that impairs their ability to support themselves. Any member of our workforce that is employed full-time, should make enough money to eat, have a roof over their heads and have access to healthcare and an education. They should not be on public assistance, but rather earning a living wage, that covers at least, their basic needs.

There's no evidence that there would be inflation if everyone who can work has a job.

How many unemployables would be working in your government scheme?

Too much money, chasing after too little goods and services, could be a problem if the jobs being filled in that economy, don't increase production or contribute to economic growth,

How much production in desired goods and services would result from government hiring all these unemployables?

You're mocking it due to ignorance and hubris.

Exactly. I'm mocking your ignorance and hubris.
 
Society shouldn't allow employers to pay less than what is required for a person to meet their basic needs

LOL!
The statement can be rephrased to be more accurate: "Society shouldn't let people work for less than what the socialists think is required to meet a person's basic needs. If you don't have the wherewithal to earn more than that, fuck you. Beg for help."
 
There's no evidence that there would be inflation if everyone who can work has a job.

How many unemployables would be working in your government scheme?

Too much money, chasing after too little goods and services, could be a problem if the jobs being filled in that economy, don't increase production or contribute to economic growth,

How much production in desired goods and services would result from government hiring all these unemployables?

You're mocking it due to ignorance and hubris.

Exactly. I'm mocking your ignorance and hubris.

How many unemployables would be working in your government scheme?

Why do you continue denigrating them? If they're unemployable in the private sector, it's not necessarily due to their lack of potential or ability to work and produce. The purpose of capitalist production is to produce products and services for a profit, not as a means to provide people with a job or income. If it's profitable to hire less people and pay pay lower wages or even replace human labor with technology, then that's what capitalists will do, even if it's at the long-term expense and detriment of the public good.

People get stuck working low-paying jobs and don't have the time, energy, money, or transportation, to go to school after work to learn a trade.


R.jpeg

If she were given an opportunity to work for a living wage, where she can support herself and her child, without needing government food stamps and cash assistance, she would do it. She, like millions of other Americans, is stuck in a rut. due to her childhood, family history, how and where she was raised, and it behooves society not to throw people like her into the trashbin. A society that does that is doomed to fail.


How much production in desired goods and services would result from government hiring all these unemployables?

Well, first of all, it would result in the elimination or at least a significant reduction of highly destructive social ills, which are the products of having millions of Americans impoverished, unable to support themselves without food stamps and cash assistance. We would be reducing violence and substance abuse, among other societal problems, by employing everyone who can work. That alone would contribute positively to the economy. They would be trained and employed:


  • Infrastructure: Many American cities and towns have aging infrastructure that needs repair or replacement, including roads, bridges, water and sewage systems, public transportation, and more.
  • Education and Training: Investment in human capital is crucial for the long-term health of an economy. The program could employ teachers, trainers, and support staff for public schools, colleges, and vocational training centers. Additionally, programs aimed at re-skilling workers for the industries of the future would be beneficial.
  • Healthcare: Public health initiatives could employ a range of professionals, from doctors and nurses to community health workers. In addition to providing necessary services, investments in public health can also improve overall societal productivity.
  • Public Safety: Hiring additional police officers, firefighters, military, emergency medical technicians, and other public safety personnel can enhance the safety and security of communities.
  • Conservation and Environmental Protection: Jobs could be created in national parks, forests, and other public lands to maintain trails, facilities, and infrastructure, protect wildlife, and perform other conservation tasks.
  • Water and Sewer Systems: Many cities in the U.S. have water and sewer systems that are over a century old. These can be upgraded or replaced to improve service, ensure clean drinking water, and reduce leaks. This would create jobs in construction, engineering, and related fields.
  • Electric Utilities: Publicly owned electric utilities can create jobs and often provide more affordable service than private companies. The construction and maintenance of power plants and electric grids, especially renewable energy sources, can provide many jobs.
  • Broadband Internet: The Internet has become a utility as essential as electricity or water, yet many rural and low-income areas still lack reliable, high-speed Internet service. A public works program could employ people to expand broadband infrastructure to these areas, which would also help stimulate economic growth.
  • Public Transportation: This is another area where public investment can create jobs and provide valuable services. Jobs could be created in bus, subway, and light rail system construction and maintenance, as well as transit operation.
  • Waste Management: Publicly owned waste management services can be an important part of a city's infrastructure. This includes not only collection and disposal but also recycling and composting programs that can help cities reduce their environmental footprint.

Exactly. I'm mocking your ignorance and hubris.

You're the one flippantly consigning others to the compost heap, not me.
 
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Society shouldn't allow employers to pay less than what is required for a person to meet their basic needs

LOL!

Todd the capitalist, can engage in commerce within the parameters set by society, which ensures no one is homeless and starving.

If only our government could spend money to help the low-skilled worker survive.

If only our government could spen dmoney to help the low-skilled worker survive.

Not just survive but thrive. Train them:


And put them to work. We have plenty of money to invest in people's success. You throw them away, we build them up.




 
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Why do you continue denigrating them? If they're unemployable in the private sector, it's not necessarily due to their lack of potential or ability to work and produce. The purpose of capitalist production is to produce products and services for a profit, not as a means to provide people with a job or income. If it's profitable to hire less people and pay pay lower wages or even replace human labor with technology, then that's what capitalists will do, even if it's at the long-term expense and detriment of the public good.

People get stuck working low-paying jobs and don't have the time, energy, money, or transportation, to go to school after work to learn a trade.



If she were given an opportunity to work for a living wage, where she can support herself and her child, without needing government food stamps and cash assistance, she would do it. She, like millions of other Americans, is stuck in a rut. due to her childhood, family history, how and where she was raised, and it behooves society not to throw people like her into the trashbin. A society that does that is doomed to fail.

How much production in desired goods and services would result from government hiring all these unemployables?

Well, first of all, it would result in the elimination or at least a significant reduction of highly destructive social ills, which are the products of having millions of Americans impoverished, unable to support themselves without food stamps and cash assistance. We would be reducing violence and substance abuse, among other societal problems, by employing everyone who can work. That alone would contribute positively to the economy. They would be trained and employed:

  • Infrastructure: Many American cities and towns have aging infrastructure that needs repair or replacement, including roads, bridges, water and sewage systems, public transportation, and more.
  • Education and Training: Investment in human capital is crucial for the long-term health of an economy. The program could employ teachers, trainers, and support staff for public schools, colleges, and vocational training centers. Additionally, programs aimed at re-skilling workers for the industries of the future would be beneficial.
  • Healthcare: Public health initiatives could employ a range of professionals, from doctors and nurses to community health workers. In addition to providing necessary services, investments in public health can also improve overall societal productivity.
  • Public Safety: Hiring additional police officers, firefighters, military, emergency medical technicians, and other public safety personnel can enhance the safety and security of communities.
  • Conservation and Environmental Protection: Jobs could be created in national parks, forests, and other public lands to maintain trails, facilities, and infrastructure, protect wildlife, and perform other conservation tasks.
  • Water and Sewer Systems: Many cities in the U.S. have water and sewer systems that are over a century old. These can be upgraded or replaced to improve service, ensure clean drinking water, and reduce leaks. This would create jobs in construction, engineering, and related fields.
  • Electric Utilities: Publicly owned electric utilities can create jobs and often provide more affordable service than private companies. The construction and maintenance of power plants and electric grids, especially renewable energy sources, can provide many jobs.
  • Broadband Internet: The Internet has become a utility as essential as electricity or water, yet many rural and low-income areas still lack reliable, high-speed Internet service. A public works program could employ people to expand broadband infrastructure to these areas, which would also help stimulate economic growth.
  • Public Transportation: This is another area where public investment can create jobs and provide valuable services. Jobs could be created in bus, subway, and light rail system construction and maintenance, as well as transit operation.
  • Waste Management: Publicly owned waste management services can be an important part of a city's infrastructure. This includes not only collection and disposal but also recycling and composting programs that can help cities reduce their environmental footprint.

Exactly. I'm mocking your ignorance and hubris.

You're the one flippantly consigning others to the compost heap, not me.

How much production in desired goods and services would result from government hiring all these unemployables?

Well, first of all, it would result in the elimination or at least a significant reduction of highly destructive social ills, which are the products of having millions of Americans impoverished, unable to support themselves without food stamps and cash assistance. We would be reducing violence and substance abuse, among other societal problems, by employing everyone who can work. That alone would contribute positively to the economy. They would be trained and employed:

I thought the trillions we spent on welfare already was supposed to do that?

How much production in desired goods and services would result from government hiring all these unemployables?

Try actually answering my question.
 
Not just survive but thrive. Train them:


And put them to work. We have plenty of money to invest in people's success. You throw them away, we build them up.






And put them to work. We have plenty of money to invest in people's success. You throw them away, we build them up.

How many of them? At what cost?
 
And put them to work. We have plenty of money to invest in people's success. You throw them away, we build them up.

How many of them? At what cost?

How many need a job and perhaps some training? At a cost less than not doing anything. More cost-effective than throwing people away and letting them rot.
 
How much production in desired goods and services would result from government hiring all these unemployables?

Well, first of all, it would result in the elimination or at least a significant reduction of highly destructive social ills, which are the products of having millions of Americans impoverished, unable to support themselves without food stamps and cash assistance. We would be reducing violence and substance abuse, among other societal problems, by employing everyone who can work. That alone would contribute positively to the economy. They would be trained and employed:

I thought the trillions we spent on welfare already was supposed to do that?

How much production in desired goods and services would result from government hiring all these unemployables?

Try actually answering my question.

You thought wrong. Employment is what takes people out of poverty, not government handouts. We put people to work and if they need training, they get it. That's how people improve their lot in life, not living off food stamps and cash assistance. The capitalists want to put everyone on a UBI (Universal Basic Income).
 
You thought wrong. Employment is what takes people out of poverty, not government handouts. We put people to work and if they need training, they get it. That's how people improve their lot in life, not living off food stamps and cash assistance. The capitalists want to put everyone on a UBI (Universal Basic Income).

Employment is what takes people out of poverty, not government handouts.

I'm glad you see the flaw in your plan.

We put people to work and if they need training, they get it.

How many? How much per person?
 
It's your plan, no numbers?

At a cost less than not doing anything.

A claim with no evidence.

More cost-effective than throwing people away and letting them rot.

See above.

If you want to pretend that abandoning people in abject poverty is better for society, well, enjoy your delusion. There's no reason to let people rot, we have plenty of money to lift people out of poverty, by employing them.
 
Employment is what takes people out of poverty, not government handouts.

I'm glad you see the flaw in your plan.

We put people to work and if they need training, they get it.

How many? How much per person?
Government job training and employment isn't a handout. Society allowing sociopaths in their pursuit of profits ruining society is indeed a handout and flawed plan.
 
If you want to pretend that abandoning people in abject poverty is better for society, well, enjoy your delusion. There's no reason to let people rot, we have plenty of money to lift people out of poverty, by providing them with jobs.

If you don't have any numbers, how can you prove your claim?
 
If you don't have any numbers, how can you prove your claim?
Let me repeat. Whoever needs a job, gets a job. If ten million people need jobs, they get one. How many people are unemployed or working a full-time job and can't meet their basic needs, like food, housing? If they can't find a better job in the private sector they have one in the public sector.

The Job Corps age cap should be lifted, and facilities expanded to accommodate more students. Whoever needs training, goes to Job Corps or is trained on the job. It depends on the job. The person employed may not need extensive training, requiring to go to a technical school like Job Corps. Our country has plenty of money, to invest in people and our nation's infrastructure.
 
Let me repeat. Whoever needs a job, gets a job. If ten million people need jobs, they get one. How many people are unemployed or working a full-time job and can't meet their basic needs, like food, housing? If they can't find a better job in the private sector they have one in the public sector.

The Job Corps age cap should be lifted, and facilities expanded to accommodate more students. Whoever needs training, goes to Job Corps or is trained on the job. It depends on the job. The person employed may not need extensive training, requiring to go to a technical school like Job Corps. Our country has plenty of money, to invest in people and our nation's infrastructure.

Let me repeat. Whoever needs a job, gets a job. If ten million people need jobs, they get one.

And how much do each of these "jobs" cost?

Our country has plenty of money, to invest in people and our nation's infrastructure.

Especially when you don't care about inflation and print trillions for your fake jobs.
 

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