What Is Wrong With America ?

[Avatar4321]

I knew they shouldn't have legalized pot. And don't forget to call that designated driver. Pheeeeeww!!

How does increasing taxes (on the rich) become "taboo" when 3/4 of the American people support it ? You can answer tomorrow, when you're feeling better.

How could lynching a negro be wrong when 3/4 of the Klansmen in attendance support it?

Pretty fucking easily, actually....

Right and wrong are not determined by popular vote.

Be nice if more people realize that.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The wealthiest 20% of the US households are set to receive about $6.9 Trillion in personal income this year, half of all national personal income. Their average tax burden is around 26%, or about $1.7 Trillion. This leaves them with $5.2 Trillion of disposable income each year.

The current budget deficit is around $560 Billion, or about 10% of the disposable income of the wealthiest. They could be taxed enough to eliminate the budget deficit and still receive 90% of their income, with the other 80% of Americans not paying a dime.

If you want stats they are at census.gov and bea.gov

U.S. budget deficit plunging in fiscal 2014 - Capitol Report - MarketWatch

Total Personal Income U.S. and All States

Your initial claim was that raising the rate on the top 10% by less than 5% would allow us to cut the tax rate for everyone else in the country to nothing. When I told you you were wrong you challenged me to do the math, and claimed that, when you did it, it proved that would be a revenue neutral solution.

You lied, admit it.

By the way, are you aware that the top 20% of wage earners includes a hefty chunk of what is colloquially known as the middle class? I don't feel like going back and reading the entire thread, but I will bet that more than one person has told you that any tax hike on the rich always hits the middle class. In your attempt to defend your lie you proved them right.

Congratulations.

Remember when you told me that "In a word" wasn't an argument? Don't you wish you had just kept your ignorant ass mouth shut?

In a word, you, and everyone else who can't do simple math, is what is wrong with this country. You cannot support the welfare state by taxing the rich. You cannot run the government by pretending you can. Anyone with basic math skills knows this.

your getting protectionist mixed up with me......I didnt lie.....Thats how I remembered it...and Im still not convinced I was wrong,.... I also remember hearing/reading that the way the stats are kept/recorded changed in the meantime....probably to obscure some of the numbers.

Protectionist, one number you state which I think might be an error is that the wealthiest pay 26% the latest numbers I saw show an actual rate of 20%

My bad.

Pos repped for admitting you were wrong.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Probably true (depending on the type and size of watercraft). Point is, none of these things are owned by very large %s of the American people, and as such are bad examples to try to promote overtaxation.

There is no such thing as a bad example to show over taxation if it actually shows over taxation.

The examples shown were ridiculous attempt to show overtaxation, where there is no overtaxation. We currently are in one of the lowest taxation periods in out history, which is why so many of the American people support raising taxes on those in the top income bracket (starting with the marginal individual tax - currently only 39.6%)

Any tax is proof of over taxation.

Let me rephrase that, all taxes are over taxation.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I bumbled the Stossel link, but he makes the point that if the Obamunists were to confiscate 100% of the assets of the top 10% of the nation, it would offer only $5.2 trillion, less than a third of the Obama debt.

So in almost 3 years the debt could be wiped out ? Not bad. Quite fast in fact. A lot less than the 34 years that we've been in this low tax era.

Except you could only do that one time. Because the following year there would be no one left with assets to confiscate anything from.

Actually, you would simply steal the assets of the new top 10%, and keep that up every year until no one has anything.

The plus side, it will eliminate the rich/poor divide.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Please be brief. I will briefly state that there probably are 100 things (or more) wrong with America, but I will state just one for now >>

America is too much run by rich people. Members of Congress, the President and Vice-President, and members of the Supreme Court are generally all rich people. What do they know about middle class, lower middle class, and poor people's lives ? How can they make decisions about things they have no experience with, or have long forgotten from years past ? When have these people ever been unemployed, and out looking for a job, with a wide variety of things being used against them ? (credit reports, smear talk from former employers often untrue, etc). The last time I applied for a job I was told I would never get hired because employers require RECENT employment in that job occupation (within last 2 years). There's probably a long list of ways people can be denied a job, that shouldn't exist, and don't make sense.

you sound more like a disenchanted misanthrope than a serious political poster.

just sayin'

I would pos rep you for that if you hadn't gotten your rep revoked.

 

[dcraelin]

here is a great article outlining all the tax breaks and subsidies corporations get

Top Ten Examples of Welfare for the Rich » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

also a link on yet another idiotic trade deal Washington crooks are trying to impose on America

The TPP and the Chamber of Secrets » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Whackjob Communist is fucking moron..

ONE example;

{Six. Mortgage Deduction. The home mortgage deduction, which costs taxpayers $70 billion per year, is a huge subsidy to the real estate, }

So Comrade stupidfuck, NOT taxing homeowners costs who? Do you fuckwad commies contend that all wealth belongs to you? That NOT taking it from hardworking families "costs taxpayers?"

Fucking commies - evil piles of shit - every one.

the mortgage deduction largely just goes to inflate the price of a home, so it goes mostly to bankers and developers. Studies have shown this. What about hardworking renters who do not get such a deduction?

Even if you disagree with that part of the article, it leaves a lot of other corporate subsidies you cannot defend.

Anyone who has to resort to such a string of profanity as you do has lost the argument, and has shown their lack of intelligence.

 

[dblack]

here is a great article outlining all the tax breaks and subsidies corporations get

Top Ten Examples of Welfare for the Rich » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

also a link on yet another idiotic trade deal Washington crooks are trying to impose on America

The TPP and the Chamber of Secrets » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Whackjob Communist is fucking moron..

ONE example;

{Six. Mortgage Deduction. The home mortgage deduction, which costs taxpayers $70 billion per year, is a huge subsidy to the real estate, }

So Comrade stupidfuck, NOT taxing homeowners costs who? Do you fuckwad commies contend that all wealth belongs to you? That NOT taking it from hardworking families "costs taxpayers?"

It's not "homeowners" who get a tax break with the mortgage interest deduction. It's people who maintain housing debt. People who save their money and pay cash for a home don't get the break. The law is a coercive incentive to push people into taking out home loans they might not otherwise. That benefits banks who offer the loans and home sellers. Whether you consider that a 'subsidy' or just a nice perk for the banks and builders doesn't really matter. What matters, to me at least, is that manipulating our economic decisions like that isn't why we gave government the power to tax us. And I don't think we should let them get away with using it in that way.

 

[protectionist]

you sound more like a disenchanted misanthrope than a serious political poster.

just sayin'

Rather than commenting on what I may "sound like", how about some feedback on what is not serious about my posts ? Why not ?

Too bad folks like you don't attempt to change the system from within.

We vote them into office.

That wasn't the question, but regarding this new post, what is your definition for folks like me ?

 

[protectionist]

There is no such thing as a bad example to show over taxation if it actually shows over taxation.

The examples shown were ridiculous attempt to show overtaxation, where there is no overtaxation. We currently are in one of the lowest taxation periods in out history, which is why so many of the American people support raising taxes on those in the top income bracket (starting with the marginal individual tax - currently only 39.6%)

Any tax is proof of over taxation.

Let me rephrase that, all taxes are over taxation.

Perfect example of why no one need bother answering your posts. From this point on, you will be expected to be hauling away your own garbage. Policing your own criminals. Putting out fires to your home and those whom you care about. Purifying your own reservoir water. Filling in your own potholes. Singlehandly going to war to defend your community (from Japs, Nazis, Jihadists, whomever). Picking up your own roadkill animals. Inspecting all your own food, coming from the farms and ranches. Etc, etc X 1,000.

 

[protectionist]

It is true at most renters have no idea that a substantial part of their payment each month is paid out by the landlord in property taxes. But that's excusable since they likely have never owned a home; made a mortage payment (with tax escrow charges, the meaning of which they have no idea). These are the people who turn out to vote for more freebies from their cities and towns and feel no pain when property taxes go up. Lots of pain, though, when their rent does and/or when the landlord cuts back on maintenance due to the losses.

1. Plenty of renters including me) have been homeowners in the past, and have paid property taxes.''

2. Like any business owner, landlords are limited in how much they can raise prices (rents). When prices go up, sales go down. Sales also go down when maintenance goes down.

 

[KingOfCars]

Lifetime Judicial Appointments need to be done away with. And how about a minimum of 10 years in the private sector for politicians? Enough with these career public employees.

 

[KingOfCars]

I find it funny that people don't regard taxation as STEALING. Because that's pretty much what it is. Are they necessary? Yes. Are they abused by the shitheads in charge? A resounding YES!!!

 

[protectionist]

1. Never occured to you that raising taxes on the rich could provide this money ? Seems like a viable route, especially since it's supported by 76% of the population (according to a recent Gallup poll. About the same oppose cuts in Social Security, Medicare ,and Veteran benefits.

2. If you're going to steal MY posts (the 1st paragraph of "your" post), you could at least give credit, for the source (Post # 434 on page 29).

Since I'm new to the site, it wouldn't let me post a URL, sorry about that.

As for the raising taxes. Of course 76% of people agree. It's NOT their money. And, it depends on how the question was raised in opposing cuts. Did they form it would you oppose cuts to SS, Medicare, and Veteran Benefits? Because I would oppose cuts to Veteran benefits, but SS and medicare are going to be cut someday, through no choice of ours. We won't have any money to pay out these benefits. Why do we need to spend $421 billion in welfare? That's ridiculous. We have perfectly good charities, food banks, salvation armies, soup kitchens etc. that can help people who need help. Why not allow charities to start doing what they were intended to do? Help the needy. We have plenty of good people in this country willing to give their money and time to these charities.

Any notion that the Gallup poll's 76% might be faulty due to question wording, is quickly disspelled by simply noticing that the link I supplied (containing the Gallup poll) ALSO HAS 22 other polls, all of which show large majorities of Americans supporting tax raises on the rich. Here's the link again >>

23 Polls Say People Support Higher Taxes to Reduce the Deficit | Stan Collender's Capital Gains and Games

One of the prime reasons why we spend so much in welfare, is because most of it goes to illegal alien families, through the anchor baby racket and/or false documentation. In 2009 (based on data collected in 2010), 57 percent of households headed by an immigrant (legal and illegal) with children (under 18) used at least one welfare program, compared to 39 percent for native households with children. ***

Immigrant households’ use of welfare tends to be much higher than natives for food assistance programs and Medicaid. *** The low tax rate we have, coupled with Republicans' constant yammering to cut spending, sabatoges the hiring of ICE agents, CBP officers, immigration courts & jails, and the building of the Mexican border fence. This keeps the illegal invasion going with its high welfare result. I am the first one in line to blame the Obama administration when it comes to immigration, but they do have a point when they say they are hampered by not getting enough funds to do what has to be done.

As for the charities, have you been so poor that you had to rely on them for food ? I once was. The food banks vary from place to place, but they generally are just a supplement, and not adequate for for constant food supply. Food stamps usually are much more, while still being less than adequate.

*** https://cis.org/immigrant-welfare-use-2011

I don't know why/how this is happening, but the identities of the posters in the quote boxes of post # 573 are backwards. I posted my new post (573) right after the word QUOTE in brackets at the end of brfrad's quote (as it should be)

 

[jasonnfree]

I find it funny that people don't regard taxation as STEALING. Because that's pretty much what it is. Are they necessary? Yes. Are they abused by the shitheads in charge? A resounding YES!!!

Taxation under the constitution is not theft. One of the reasons the founders wanted to change from the Articles of Confederation to the constitutional form of government is because they weren't getting enough taxes from the states to even pay the nations debts.

 

[protectionist]

I find it funny that people don't regard taxation as STEALING. Because that's pretty much what it is. Are they necessary? Yes. Are they abused by the shitheads in charge? A resounding YES!!!

Taxation under the constitution is not theft. One of the reasons the founders wanted to change from the Articles of Confederation to the constitutional form of government is because they weren't getting enough taxes from the states to even pay the nations debts.

Correct. And to add to that, I might say taxation has been the result of a free people freely choosing to have it. At any time over the past 100 years, Americans could have chosen to do away with it. They didn't, and chose to have it. For those opposed enough to it, maybe they could choose another country to live in with little or no taxation. Plenty of them are out there.

 

[OKTexas]

I find it funny that people don't regard taxation as STEALING. Because that's pretty much what it is. Are they necessary? Yes. Are they abused by the shitheads in charge? A resounding YES!!!

Taxation under the constitution is not theft. One of the reasons the founders wanted to change from the Articles of Confederation to the constitutional form of government is because they weren't getting enough taxes from the states to even pay the nations debts.

Even the founders knew direct taxation is evil, politicians use it to encroach on liberty.

 

[protectionist]

I knew they shouldn't have legalized pot. And don't forget to call that designated driver. Pheeeeeww!!

How does increasing taxes (on the rich) become "taboo" when 3/4 of the American people support it ? You can answer tomorrow, when you're feeling better.

How could lynching a negro be wrong when 3/4 of the Klansmen in attendance support it?

Pretty fucking easily, actually....

Right and wrong are not determined by popular vote.

Be nice if more people realize that.

Be nice if more people realized there's a reason why 3/4 of the American people (not some lynch mob) support tax raises on the rich. Because it is the correct thing to do.
Nice try though.

 

[protectionist]

I find it funny that people don't regard taxation as STEALING. Because that's pretty much what it is. Are they necessary? Yes. Are they abused by the shitheads in charge? A resounding YES!!!

Taxation under the constitution is not theft. One of the reasons the founders wanted to change from the Articles of Confederation to the constitutional form of government is because they weren't getting enough taxes from the states to even pay the nations debts.

Even the founders knew direct taxation is evil, politicians use it to encroach on liberty.

Yeah. They're all sadists, who just want to annoy everyone. Pheeeeeeww!! Syria is waiting.

 

[jasonnfree]

here is a great article outlining all the tax breaks and subsidies corporations get

Top Ten Examples of Welfare for the Rich » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

also a link on yet another idiotic trade deal Washington crooks are trying to impose on America

The TPP and the Chamber of Secrets » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Whackjob Communist is fucking moron..

ONE example;

{Six. Mortgage Deduction. The home mortgage deduction, which costs taxpayers $70 billion per year, is a huge subsidy to the real estate, }

So Comrade stupidfuck, NOT taxing homeowners costs who? Do you fuckwad commies contend that all wealth belongs to you? That NOT taking it from hardworking families "costs taxpayers?"

It's not "homeowners" who get a tax break with the mortgage interest deduction. It's people who maintain housing debt. People who save their money and pay cash for a home don't get the break. The law is a coercive incentive to push people into taking out home loans they might not otherwise. That benefits banks who offer the loans and home sellers. Whether you consider that a 'subsidy' or just a nice perk for the banks and builders doesn't really matter. What matters, to me at least, is that manipulating our economic decisions like that isn't why we gave government the power to tax us. And I don't think we should let them get away with using it in that way.

The are very few people who can save up and pay cash for houses because they'd have to pay rent and save a large amount each month. House payments are pay as you go, which is why home ownership for the masses didn't happen till after WW2 and especially the GI bill with no or minimal downpayments. I think it was an incentive to grow the housing market and it looks like it worked and it became a nest egg for retirement for many, at least until 2008.

 

[jasonnfree]

I find it funny that people don't regard taxation as STEALING. Because that's pretty much what it is. Are they necessary? Yes. Are they abused by the shitheads in charge? A resounding YES!!!

Taxation under the constitution is not theft. One of the reasons the founders wanted to change from the Articles of Confederation to the constitutional form of government is because they weren't getting enough taxes from the states to even pay the nations debts.

Even the founders knew direct taxation is evil, politicians use it to encroach on liberty.

Maybe your right. Where can I fined where the founders said this?