What Is Wrong With America ?

[HenryBHough]

The mortgage interest deduction was preserved when lots of other interest was made non-deductible because the regime then in power felt home ownership was a good thing. It built stability for families.

Easy to see why the current regime is salivating to end it. Keep people renting and, when they become poor enough, stack 'em up in government housing. Like those grim cement monstrosities in Russia, some of which still stand in the former East Berlin. Then you can hand out housing to your friends and banish your enemies to the streets.

 

[OKTexas]

Taxation under the constitution is not theft. One of the reasons the founders wanted to change from the Articles of Confederation to the constitutional form of government is because they weren't getting enough taxes from the states to even pay the nations debts.

Even the founders knew direct taxation is evil, politicians use it to encroach on liberty.

Yeah. They're all sadists, who just want to annoy everyone. Pheeeeeeww!! Syria is waiting.

Enjoy the trip.

 

[dblack]

The are very few people who can save up and pay cash for houses because they'd have to pay rent and save a large amount each month.

And there are fewer yet because of policies like the home mortgage interest deduction.

House payments are pay as you go, which is why home ownership for the masses didn't happen till after WW2 and especially the GI bill with no or minimal downpayments. I think it was an incentive to grow the housing market and it looks like it worked and it became a nest egg for retirement for many, at least until 2008.

Perpetual debt is a trap. It's become the modern equivalent of indentured servitude. Banks and corporations, and the government that attends to their interests, want us in debt because it gives them power over us.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The examples shown were ridiculous attempt to show overtaxation, where there is no overtaxation. We currently are in one of the lowest taxation periods in out history, which is why so many of the American people support raising taxes on those in the top income bracket (starting with the marginal individual tax - currently only 39.6%)

Any tax is proof of over taxation.

Let me rephrase that, all taxes are over taxation.

Perfect example of why no one need bother answering your posts. From this point on, you will be expected to be hauling away your own garbage. Policing your own criminals. Putting out fires to your home and those whom you care about. Purifying your own reservoir water. Filling in your own potholes. Singlehandly going to war to defend your community (from Japs, Nazis, Jihadists, whomever). Picking up your own roadkill animals. Inspecting all your own food, coming from the farms and ranches. Etc, etc X 1,000.

Aren't you the guy that proved we have to tax the middle class?

 

[dblack]

The mortgage interest deduction was preserved when lots of other interest was made non-deductible because the regime then in power felt home ownership was a good thing. It built stability for families.

I don't buy it. As I've pointed out, the mortgage interest deduction doesn't promote home ownership, it promotes debt. If they'd concocted tax incentives to give all home owners a break - and not just reward people for taking out mortgages, there might be some merit to your argument. I'd still argue against, however, because I don't think it's the government's job to decide what we should do and use the tax code to push us into doing it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I find it funny that people don't regard taxation as STEALING. Because that's pretty much what it is. Are they necessary? Yes. Are they abused by the shitheads in charge? A resounding YES!!!

Taxation under the constitution is not theft. One of the reasons the founders wanted to change from the Articles of Confederation to the constitutional form of government is because they weren't getting enough taxes from the states to even pay the nations debts.

Taxation is theft.

Period.

 

[dcraelin]

I find it funny that people don't regard taxation as STEALING. Because that's pretty much what it is. Are they necessary? Yes. Are they abused by the shitheads in charge? A resounding YES!!!

Taxation under the constitution is not theft. One of the reasons the founders wanted to change from the Articles of Confederation to the constitutional form of government is because they weren't getting enough taxes from the states to even pay the nations debts.

I think your right on one of the reasons, but the Articles of Confederation was a kind of constitution so to say "to the constitutional form of government " is misleading

I believe someone else said the founders thought Direct taxes evil....No,.. they allowed Direct taxes as long as they were apportioned to population...and the understanding of what a direct tax was, was disputed...some thought it merely meant the same type of requisitions DIRECTLY on the states that were used under the Articles, some if not all of which were based on property values or land area I believe.

 

[HenryBHough]

Not my argument.

It's what kept the mortgage interest deduction alive when all the others vanished. Was that right or wrong? Home ownership from a conservative viewpoint is a good thing. Debt is not but some argue that the benefit of ultimate ownership outweighs the debt factor. Myself, I don't buy anything for which I can't pay cash.

Sorry you don't like the facts but that's just hard cheese.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I find it funny that people don't regard taxation as STEALING. Because that's pretty much what it is. Are they necessary? Yes. Are they abused by the shitheads in charge? A resounding YES!!!

Taxation under the constitution is not theft. One of the reasons the founders wanted to change from the Articles of Confederation to the constitutional form of government is because they weren't getting enough taxes from the states to even pay the nations debts.

What does that have to do with the fact that taking things by force is theft?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I find it funny that people don't regard taxation as STEALING. Because that's pretty much what it is. Are they necessary? Yes. Are they abused by the shitheads in charge? A resounding YES!!!

Taxation under the constitution is not theft. One of the reasons the founders wanted to change from the Articles of Confederation to the constitutional form of government is because they weren't getting enough taxes from the states to even pay the nations debts.

Correct. And to add to that, I might say taxation has been the result of a free people freely choosing to have it. At any time over the past 100 years, Americans could have chosen to do away with it. They didn't, and chose to have it. For those opposed enough to it, maybe they could choose another country to live in with little or no taxation. Plenty of them are out there.

Unless you are part of that 20% you think should pay all the taxes you are a thief. If you are part of it, you are a stupid thief.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

How could lynching a negro be wrong when 3/4 of the Klansmen in attendance support it?

Pretty fucking easily, actually....

Right and wrong are not determined by popular vote.

Be nice if more people realize that.

Be nice if more people realized there's a reason why 3/4 of the American people (not some lynch mob) support tax raises on the rich. Because it is the correct thing to do.
Nice try though.

Or, just a thought, they polled a large number of thieves.

 

[dblack]

Not my argument.

It's what kept the mortgage interest deduction alive when all the others vanished. Was that right or wrong? Home ownership from a conservative viewpoint is a good thing. Debt is not but some argue that the benefit of ultimate ownership outweighs the debt factor. Myself, I don't buy anything for which I can't pay cash.

Sorry you don't like the facts but that's just hard cheese.

I understand that what you're saying is factual, but I'm pointing out that it doesn't reward home ownership - it rewards home debt. In doing so, it punishes people who avoid it. If you want to uncover the real motivations for the law, propose replacing it with an equivalent tax incentive that gives all homeowners a break and not just those who stay on the debt treadmill, and listen to the excuses.

 

[dcraelin]

Be nice if more people realize that.

Be nice if more people realized there's a reason why 3/4 of the American people (not some lynch mob) support tax raises on the rich. Because it is the correct thing to do.
Nice try though.

Or, just a thought, they polled a large number of thieves.

yes, that's logical,... 3/4ths of Americans are thieves.

Maybe they realize we live in a market system where compensation is determined largely on the basis of supply and demand and so don't put a lot of false moral angst into the tax question.

 

[HenryBHough]

Correct....not really a reward. But it's viewed as an incentive rather than the trap it is...the debt it encourages, that is.

There's an idea that Hillary presented but which Bill pushed aside involving "imputed rent". Wherein a family owning a home would have to calculate how much rent they would have to pay were it owned by someone else. Then, since they didn't have to spend that rent money, it would be called imputed income and taxed.

But Hillary WILL be baccccckkkkkkkkk!

 

[dblack]

Correct....not really a reward. But it's viewed as an incentive rather than the trap it is...the debt it encourages, that is.

There's an idea that Hillary presented but which Bill pushed aside involving "imputed rent". Wherein a family owning a home would have to calculate how much rent they would have to pay were it owned by someone else. Then, since they didn't have to spend that rent money, it would be called imputed income and taxed.

But Hillary WILL be baccccckkkkkkkkk!

Wow.... she really is an evil genius.

 

[Friends]

Well Sinclair Lewis was correct:

Fascism did come to America;

But it was wrapped with a flag, the cross and bipartisan Marxism.

.

Marxism has not been fashionable in the United States since the War in Vietnam. Even then its appeal was restricted to a minority of activists in the anti war movement. Now Marxism is nothing more than a word Republican mothers use to scare their naughty children with.

I doubt there are more than ten thousand people in the United States who consider themselves to be Marxists. The vast majority of these Marxists have no power at all.

Socialism is gaining popularity in the United States, but it seems to be non ideological and thoroughly democratic.

 

[protectionist]

Even the founders knew direct taxation is evil, politicians use it to encroach on liberty.

Yeah. They're all sadists, who just want to annoy everyone. Pheeeeeeww!! Syria is waiting.

Enjoy the trip.

Not hardly. I'm not the one complaining about taxation or other US annoyances.

 

[protectionist]

Any tax is proof of over taxation.

Let me rephrase that, all taxes are over taxation.

Perfect example of why no one need bother answering your posts. From this point on, you will be expected to be hauling away your own garbage. Policing your own criminals. Putting out fires to your home and those whom you care about. Purifying your own reservoir water. Filling in your own potholes. Singlehandly going to war to defend your community (from Japs, Nazis, Jihadists, whomever). Picking up your own roadkill animals. Inspecting all your own food, coming from the farms and ranches. Etc, etc X 1,000.

Aren't you the guy that proved we have to tax the middle class?

Huh ? Don't know where you got that from. I'm for taxing THE RICH, and I've been saying it all along. Then along come all the snake oil salesmen who think they can snow everyone into thinking taxing the rich is really taxing the middle class. Nice try boys.

 

[protectionist]

Taxation under the constitution is not theft. One of the reasons the founders wanted to change from the Articles of Confederation to the constitutional form of government is because they weren't getting enough taxes from the states to even pay the nations debts.

Correct. And to add to that, I might say taxation has been the result of a free people freely choosing to have it. At any time over the past 100 years, Americans could have chosen to do away with it. They didn't, and chose to have it. For those opposed enough to it, maybe they could choose another country to live in with little or no taxation. Plenty of them are out there.

Unless you are part of that 20% you think should pay all the taxes you are a thief. If you are part of it, you are a stupid thief.

I'm neither. I think more than 20% should pay taxes, with the richer ones paying higher %s.

 

[protectionist]

I find it funny that people don't regard taxation as STEALING. Because that's pretty much what it is. Are they necessary? Yes. Are they abused by the shitheads in charge? A resounding YES!!!

Taxation under the constitution is not theft. One of the reasons the founders wanted to change from the Articles of Confederation to the constitutional form of government is because they weren't getting enough taxes from the states to even pay the nations debts.

What does that have to do with the fact that taking things by force is theft?

Not necessarily. If someone picks your wallet out of your pocket and runs down the street with it. You run after him, tackle him, and take back your wallet. When you are then "taking" your wallet, out of his pocket, "by force", are you stealing from him ? With taxation, many would say super rich employers have stolen from their workers by underpaying them. Taxation is taking their wallets back.