What Is Wrong With America ?

[Quantum Windbag]

Taxation under the constitution is not theft. One of the reasons the founders wanted to change from the Articles of Confederation to the constitutional form of government is because they weren't getting enough taxes from the states to even pay the nations debts.

What does that have to do with the fact that taking things by force is theft?

Not necessarily. If someone picks your wallet out of your pocket and runs down the street with it. You run after him, tackle him, and take back your wallet. When you are then "taking" your wallet, out of his pocket, "by force", are you stealing from him ? With taxation, many would say super rich employers have stolen from their workers by underpaying them. Taxation is taking their wallets back.

You can blather all day long, taxation is theft under threat of violence.

 

[protectionist]

Be nice if more people realize that.

Be nice if more people realized there's a reason why 3/4 of the American people (not some lynch mob) support tax raises on the rich. Because it is the correct thing to do.
Nice try though.

How is it correct to take more of your neighbors money simply because he makes more? Or simply because 3/4 of people agree too.

And why aren't you willing to explain how the military is not a coercive branch of government?

1. It's correct because the "more" the neighbor has, is just a result of fairness planning not being part of the equation to begin with. It comes from a might-makes-right type of situation (which is never right). In addition, many (if not most) of the really big moneymakers (who the only ones I'm talking about), often get their "more" money by manipulating people and things, often in malicious ways. Going to ask me to name ONE of the thousands of ways ?

2. Did somebody ask me to explain how the military is not a coercive branch of government? (quote & Post # please)

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It's not "homeowners" who get a tax break with the mortgage interest deduction.

And yet, less cash is taken from my pocket....

Unless you are rich enough to itemize your deductions you pay the exact same tax someone without a mortgage pays.

It's people who maintain housing debt.

IE, the middle class who buy homes with a mortgage.

Yet only the rich benefit from the mortgage interest deduction.

Bullshit.

No one ever bought a home because the allure that 4% of interest paid on a home could be deducted from taxable income. What an utterly stupid claim.

Can we bet on that?

That benefits banks who offer the loans and home sellers. Whether you consider that a 'subsidy' or just a nice perk for the banks and builders doesn't really matter.

A completely different subject. This is where I get irritated with you DB, you are an ideologue and tend to make Libertarians look like nutjobs.

I oppose income taxation on principle. IF there must be income taxation, I would advocate for a flat tax with zero deductions. BUT this does nothing to change my point. That some Communist whackjob site posts this as "a tax break for the rich" is a demonstration of just how deranged the left are.

Look, this retard dcraelin is just another drooling KOS kiddie spewing Marxist rhetoric. Further, he lacks the intellect and eduction to even grasp that it IS Marxist rhetoric. Smacking him down is a public service.

Then use facts, not lies.

What matters, to me at least, is that manipulating our economic decisions like that isn't why we gave government the power to tax us. And I don't think we should let them get away with using it in that way.

Again, that isn't the subject at hand. Argue for the repeal of the 16th and I'm right there with you. Call for a flat tax with zero deductions and I agree - BUT that isn't the subject here.

The subject of the thread is what's wrong with America. Part of what is wrong it that the government uses taxes to encourage a preferred social policy. If you don't see that, then you are also part of what's wrong.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Be nice if more people realized there's a reason why 3/4 of the American people (not some lynch mob) support tax raises on the rich. Because it is the correct thing to do.
Nice try though.

How is it correct to take more of your neighbors money simply because he makes more? Or simply because 3/4 of people agree too.
And why aren't you willing to explain how the military is not a coercive branch of government?

people will always dispute what is ultimately right and what is wrong, but to function as a society we have to come up with a practical way to decide on some issues. As Winston Churchill said "Democracy is the worst form of government...except for all the rest"

Right and wrong is not open to debate.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

How is it correct to take more of your neighbors money simply because he makes more? Or simply because 3/4 of people agree too.
And why aren't you willing to explain how the military is not a coercive branch of government?

people will always dispute what is ultimately right and what is wrong, but to function as a society we have to come up with a practical way to decide on some issues. As Winston Churchill said "Democracy is the worst form of government...except for all the rest"

People may dispute what's right and what's wrong. But that doesn't change what's right and what's wrong.

A rep worthy post.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Be nice if more people realized there's a reason why 3/4 of the American people (not some lynch mob) support tax raises on the rich. Because it is the correct thing to do.
Nice try though.

How is it correct to take more of your neighbors money simply because he makes more? Or simply because 3/4 of people agree too.

And why aren't you willing to explain how the military is not a coercive branch of government?

1. It's correct because the "more" the neighbor has is just a result of fairness planning not being part of the equation to be gin with. It comes from a might makes right type of situation (which is never right). In addition, many (if not most) of the really big moneymakers (who the only ones I'm talking about), often get their "more" money by manipulating people and things, often in malicious ways. Going to ask me to name ONE of the thousands of ways ?

2. Did somebody ask me to explain how the military is not a coercive branch of government? (quote & Post # please)

1. Unlike the government, most rich people aren't taking by force.
2. All branches of the government are coercive.

 

[Contumacious]

Not necessarily. If someone picks your wallet out of your pocket and runs down the street with it. You run after him, tackle him, and take back your wallet. When you are then "taking" your wallet, out of his pocket, "by force", are you stealing from him ? With taxation, many would say super rich employers have stolen from their workers by underpaying them. Taxation is taking their wallets back.

How is someone paying you an agreed upon salary picking your wallet? How dumb does one have to be to agree to work for less than he's worth, then cry about it by voting to tax his employer to punish the employer for paying him his agreed upon salary?

What's next, what other stupid decisions of yours do you want the government to fix for your sorry ass?

He be jiving.


He be too lazy to hit a lick at a snake.

.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Yeah, all those damn conservatives who won't give us a free hand!!!!!

especially when they want their hands up our asses


go back to the Coffee Clatch, you're not funny here

All hail the one party system!!!!! Talk about hands up our asses......
Now who's being funny?

Why is this even in the 'politics' section?

 

[Ringel05]

especially when they want their hands up our asses


go back to the Coffee Clatch, you're not funny here

All hail the one party system!!!!! Talk about hands up our asses......
Now who's being funny?

Why is this even in the 'politics' section?

Why are we even in the politics section...... Oh yeah, politics is hysterical......... Yes, double entendre intended.......

 

[dcraelin]

Then use facts, not lies.

Thanks for that

How is it correct to take more of your neighbors money simply because he makes more? Or simply because 3/4 of people agree too.
And why aren't you willing to explain how the military is not a coercive branch of government?

people will always dispute what is ultimately right and what is wrong, but to function as a society we have to come up with a practical way to decide on some issues. As Winston Churchill said "Democracy is the worst form of government...except for all the rest"

Right and wrong is not open to debate.

Then what are we doing here?...................?

people will always dispute what is ultimately right and what is wrong, but to function as a society we have to come up with a practical way to decide on some issues. As Winston Churchill said "Democracy is the worst form of government...except for all the rest"

People may dispute what's right and what's wrong. But that doesn't change what's right and what's wrong.

Didn't say it did.

For your information Uncensored, the Counterpunch site has at least one former Reagan official writing for it.

 

[protectionist]

What does that have to do with the fact that taking things by force is theft?

Not necessarily. If someone picks your wallet out of your pocket and runs down the street with it. You run after him, tackle him, and take back your wallet. When you are then "taking" your wallet, out of his pocket, "by force", are you stealing from him ? With taxation, many would say super rich employers have stolen from their workers by underpaying them. Taxation is taking their wallets back.

You can blather all day long, taxation is theft under threat of violence.

And you can blather all day long that taxation is theft, when actually it is the fixing of what was theft, or something akin to it, in the first place.

 

[dblack]

Not necessarily. If someone picks your wallet out of your pocket and runs down the street with it. You run after him, tackle him, and take back your wallet. When you are then "taking" your wallet, out of his pocket, "by force", are you stealing from him ? With taxation, many would say super rich employers have stolen from their workers by underpaying them. Taxation is taking their wallets back.

You can blather all day long, taxation is theft under threat of violence.

And you can blather all day long that taxation is theft, when actually it is the fixing of what was theft, or something akin to it, in the first place.

If there's theft going on, or 'something akin to it', grow a pair and arrest the fuckers who are doing it. Otherwise, quit playing underhanded games with the tax code. Buncha weasel dicks.

 

[protectionist]

How is it correct to take more of your neighbors money simply because he makes more? Or simply because 3/4 of people agree too.
And why aren't you willing to explain how the military is not a coercive branch of government?

people will always dispute what is ultimately right and what is wrong, but to function as a society we have to come up with a practical way to decide on some issues. As Winston Churchill said "Democracy is the worst form of government...except for all the rest"

Right and wrong is not open to debate.

What an IDIOTIC thing to say. Of course right and wrong is open to debate. It's the basis of 95% of all lawmaking. All policing. And just about everything govt does. It is what is constantly being discussed in every branch of govt (executive, legislative, judicial), on every level (local, state, federal). Posts in this thread are getting wackier and wackier, by the day.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

What does that have to do with the fact that taking things by force is theft?

Not necessarily. If someone picks your wallet out of your pocket and runs down the street with it. You run after him, tackle him, and take back your wallet. When you are then "taking" your wallet, out of his pocket, "by force", are you stealing from him ? With taxation, many would say super rich employers have stolen from their workers by underpaying them. Taxation is taking their wallets back.

You can blather all day long, taxation is theft under threat of violence.

Unsurprisingly, this is ridiculous nonsense.

 

[protectionist]

How is it correct to take more of your neighbors money simply because he makes more? Or simply because 3/4 of people agree too.

And why aren't you willing to explain how the military is not a coercive branch of government?

1. It's correct because the "more" the neighbor has is just a result of fairness planning not being part of the equation to be gin with. It comes from a might makes right type of situation (which is never right). In addition, many (if not most) of the really big moneymakers (who the only ones I'm talking about), often get their "more" money by manipulating people and things, often in malicious ways. Going to ask me to name ONE of the thousands of ways ?

2. Did somebody ask me to explain how the military is not a coercive branch of government? (quote & Post # please)

1. Unlike the government, most rich people aren't taking by force.
2. All branches of the government are coercive.

1. When it comes to taxation, it doesn't matter how rich people take. It only matter how much they have gotten.

2. That wasn't the question.

 

[dblack]

Not necessarily. If someone picks your wallet out of your pocket and runs down the street with it. You run after him, tackle him, and take back your wallet. When you are then "taking" your wallet, out of his pocket, "by force", are you stealing from him ? With taxation, many would say super rich employers have stolen from their workers by underpaying them. Taxation is taking their wallets back.

You can blather all day long, taxation is theft under threat of violence.

Unsurprisingly, this is ridiculous nonsense.

The whole argument that taxation is theft is mostly pointless. It's like arguing whether a cop or a soldier killing someone is murder. By some definition, I suppose it is. But we've agreed that it solves a larger problem so we roll with it. The thing we ought to be concerned about is whether the power to tax granted by the Constitution is being used appropriately or not. I don't think it was ever intended as a tool for social engineering, and that's the game both parties want to play. We need to tell them to go get fucked.

 

[Avatar4321]

Not necessarily. If someone picks your wallet out of your pocket and runs down the street with it. You run after him, tackle him, and take back your wallet. When you are then "taking" your wallet, out of his pocket, "by force", are you stealing from him ? With taxation, many would say super rich employers have stolen from their workers by underpaying them. Taxation is taking their wallets back.

You can blather all day long, taxation is theft under threat of violence.

And you can blather all day long that taxation is theft, when actually it is the fixing of what was theft, or something akin to it, in the first place.

Actually, it's robbery. Robbery is theft by force. Far worse than just theft.

Besides which, I fail to see how making money by providing people with goods and services they want and need is theft.

People didn't become rich by stealing from you when you gave it to them voluntarily.

 

[protectionist]

You can blather all day long, taxation is theft under threat of violence.

And you can blather all day long that taxation is theft, when actually it is the fixing of what was theft, or something akin to it, in the first place.

If there's theft going on, or 'something akin to it', grow a pair and arrest the fuckers who are doing it. Otherwise, quit playing underhanded games with the tax code. Buncha weasel dicks.

Arresting has to do with what is illegal. Acquisition of large wealth is legal, and it IS being dealt with by taxation. It's not an underhanded game. It's normal American procedure, and has been for 100 years. Syria has a people shortage lately. And their taxes are very low. Bon voyage.

 

[dblack]

And you can blather all day long that taxation is theft, when actually it is the fixing of what was theft, or something akin to it, in the first place.

If there's theft going on, or 'something akin to it', grow a pair and arrest the fuckers who are doing it. Otherwise, quit playing underhanded games with the tax code. Buncha weasel dicks.

Arresting has to do with what is illegal. Acquisition of large wealth is legal, and it IS being dealt with by taxation. It's not an underhanded game. It's normal American procedure, and has been for 100 years. Syria has a people shortage lately. And their taxes are very low. Bon voyage.

It's been wrong for a hundred years. Again, if someone is doing something wrong, make it illegal and put them in jail. Quit playing chickenshit games. Taxes are for funding government, not punishing the wicked.

 

[protectionist]

You can blather all day long, taxation is theft under threat of violence.

Unsurprisingly, this is ridiculous nonsense.

The whole argument that taxation is theft is mostly pointless. It's like arguing whether a cop or a soldier killing someone is murder. By some definition, I suppose it is. But we've agreed that it solves a larger problem so we roll with it. The thing we ought to be concerned about is whether the power to tax granted by the Constitution is being used appropriately or not. I don't think it was ever intended as a tool for social engineering, and that's the game both parties want to play. We need to tell them to go get fucked.

As a registered Independent, I don't really care what either party wants, but I don't like to stand by and watch the country sinking, because there isn't enough money to deal with the problems, while taxes are far below the normal rate as established over the past 95 years.