What Is Wrong With America ?

[protectionist]

Unsurprisingly, this is ridiculous nonsense.

The whole argument that taxation is theft is mostly pointless. It's like arguing whether a cop or a soldier killing someone is murder. By some definition, I suppose it is. But we've agreed that it solves a larger problem so we roll with it. The thing we ought to be concerned about is whether the power to tax granted by the Constitution is being used appropriately or not. I don't think it was ever intended as a tool for social engineering, and that's the game both parties want to play. We need to tell them to go get fucked.

The assholes that want to defend killing licensed by the state as not being murder are perfectly justified in saying that murder, by definition, is unlawful killing. That doesn't really address the issue of whether a violation of non-aggression principle, but they can pretend they have a point. Theft, however, is not defined as non legal stealing, it is defined by the act itself. If you take something without the permission of the owner, it is theft, even if you call it taxes. If we go back to that principle, and limit government to only the taxes that are justified even though we are stealing, we won't have a government that uses the tax code as a way to socially engineer its subjects.

Faulty premise. You CAN take something without the permission of the owner, while NOT being theft. It's called taxation.

 

[protectionist]

Actually, it's robbery. Robbery is theft by force. Far worse than just theft.

Besides which, I fail to see how making money by providing people with goods and services they want and need is theft.

People didn't become rich by stealing from you when you gave it to them voluntarily.

1. Taxation is a normal process of govt, not robbery, not theft.

2. Companies steal from workers the difference between what they should pay (in accordance with work performed), and what they do pay. Simple as that.

3. Workers don't voluntarily accept underpayment. I've answered that already.

1. Theft is a normal function of government, whether you call it taxation or asset forfeiture.
2. If you have evidence that companies are stealing from workers, present it. By the way, the current economic problem is because companies have been paying workers more than they should, not less.
3. I can prove they do.

ALL 3 of your statements are FALSE.

1. Taxation is not theft.

2. The OBVIOUS evidence is that ANY 40 hours of work in a week is worth far more than what many employers pay for that 40 hours. At the federal minimum wage ($7.25 hour), that is a weekly pay of $290. Anyone that would say that $290 is even close to a reasonable match with 40 hours work per week, could easily be defined as an idiot.

3. The current economic problem is because of employers using cheap labor, the wages of which don't go back in to the US economy (the leave the country). For the American workers who are paid less than they should , this also deprives the econimy of $$ input, because the workers don't have enough money to spend in the stores (AKA the economy)

 

[ScienceRocks]

Not theft as you use the roads, bridges, weather warning and police protection.

If you don't pay for it then you're committing the theft.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The stupidity that “taxation is theft under threat of violence” is what’s wrong with America.

 

[RKMBrown]

Not necessarily. If someone picks your wallet out of your pocket and runs down the street with it. You run after him, tackle him, and take back your wallet. When you are then "taking" your wallet, out of his pocket, "by force", are you stealing from him ? With taxation, many would say super rich employers have stolen from their workers by underpaying them. Taxation is taking their wallets back.

How is someone paying you an agreed upon salary picking your wallet? How dumb does one have to be to agree to work for less than he's worth, then cry about it by voting to tax his employer to punish the employer for paying him his agreed upon salary?

What's next, what other stupid decisions of yours do you want the government to fix for your sorry ass?

HA HA HA! Oh, "agreed upon", right ? But not quite as bad as someone holding a gun to your head and "asking" you to "agree" with him.
Workers in America, rarely have much choice when it comes to wages. You either work for the rip-off wage they pay, or you go unemployed. Some agreement. Yeah right. Any more brilliant comments you want to contribute ? Pheeeeww! (high-pitched whistle, eyes rolling around in head)

What a retard. News flash, everyone works for someone, even owners work for customers. You don't like what your boss is paying you, find another job dumb ass. Or create your own business and pay yourself what you think you deserve.

 

[P@triot]

Arresting has to do with what is illegal. Acquisition of large wealth is legal, and it IS being dealt with by taxation. It's not an underhanded game. It's normal American procedure, and has been for 100 years. Syria has a people shortage lately. And their taxes are very low. Bon voyage.

It's been wrong for a hundred years. Again, if someone is doing something wrong, make it illegal and put them in jail. Quit playing chickenshit games. Taxes are for funding government, not punishing the wicked.

Who said anything about "punishing the wicked"? Answer: you did. Sure taxes are for funding govt.and they are NOT wrong. Only thing wrong about taxes right now is that they are too small on the rich, and need to be raised to fix a lot of problems, that have been going unfixed, in unfairness to the American people.

Why is it Dumbocrats speak about topics which they are completely and totally uninformed about? The top 1% earned 13% of the wealth but pay 22% of the taxes. The top 20% earned 50% of the wealth but pay 68% of the taxes. Do you see a pattern? The taxes they pay are a much higher percentage than the wealth they are earning.

Now lets look at the other side. The bottom 40% earned 14% of the wealth but pay only 4% of the taxes. The taxes they pay are a much lower percentage than the wealth they are earning.

Only thing wrong about taxes right now [MENTION=45665]protectionist[/MENTION] is that they are way too high on the rich and way too low on the parasites...

 

[P@triot]

Taxation under the constitution is not theft. One of the reasons the founders wanted to change from the Articles of Confederation to the constitutional form of government is because they weren't getting enough taxes from the states to even pay the nations debts.

What does that have to do with the fact that taking things by force is theft?

Not necessarily. If someone picks your wallet out of your pocket and runs down the street with it. You run after him, tackle him, and take back your wallet. When you are then "taking" your wallet, out of his pocket, "by force", are you stealing from him ? With taxation, many would say super rich employers have stolen from their workers by underpaying them. Taxation is taking their wallets back.

Not "necessarily". In other words, "oh fuck - they've pinned me against the wall with indisputable fact and now I have to reach way into the world of nonsensical Dumbocrat jibberish to create some narrative to defend my previous insanity proven to be wrong".

If I stole my money from the government first, then you would be right in your insane view on taxes. But I didn't steal it from the government and you know it. I earned my money and they then stole it from me.

As far as the "super rich" - they didn't steal shit and they don't "underpay" shit. If someone agreed to the salary (as 100% of workers do) then they were clearly satisfied with that salary and not "underpaid" or they wouldn't have accepted it.

So now that your completely disingenuous false narrative has been exposed, what else do you have for us junior?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

And you can blather all day long that taxation is theft, when actually it is the fixing of what was theft, or something akin to it, in the first place.

I suggest you call an ambulance immediately, you have obviously been afflicted with a brain tumor of some type.

Sure sign of a debate loser. Succumbing to insults (with nothing else left to say) Come back when you got some substance.

Funny how people who have nothing to say always accuse their opponents of copying their position.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What an IDIOTIC thing to say. Of course right and wrong is open to debate. It's the basis of 95% of all lawmaking. All policing. And just about everything govt does. It is what is constantly being discussed in every branch of govt (executive, legislative, judicial), on every level (local, state, federal). Posts in this thread are getting wackier and wackier, by the day.

The basis of 100% of all lawmaking is force and violence.

More ridiculous NONSENSE. You seem to be good at that.

Why is it ridiculous nonsense? If law isn't about violence why do governments need weapons?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

1. When it comes to taxation, it doesn't matter how rich people take. It only matter how much they have gotten.

2. That wasn't the question.

1. If it doesn't matter how rich people took the money they got why is Bernie Madoff in prison?
2. It is the answer.

1. He's in prison because he broke the law. You changed the subject. We were talking about taxation, not what is or isn't legal.

2. NO, it's not the answer, because it's unrelated o the question.

The government was perfectly happy to let Madoff steal as long as they got their cut in the form of taxes. It wasn't until he reached the point that he couldn't pay those taxes that the government stepped in, and now they want more taxes from the people who were victimized by Madoff.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The whole argument that taxation is theft is mostly pointless. It's like arguing whether a cop or a soldier killing someone is murder. By some definition, I suppose it is. But we've agreed that it solves a larger problem so we roll with it. The thing we ought to be concerned about is whether the power to tax granted by the Constitution is being used appropriately or not. I don't think it was ever intended as a tool for social engineering, and that's the game both parties want to play. We need to tell them to go get fucked.

The assholes that want to defend killing licensed by the state as not being murder are perfectly justified in saying that murder, by definition, is unlawful killing. That doesn't really address the issue of whether a violation of non-aggression principle, but they can pretend they have a point. Theft, however, is not defined as non legal stealing, it is defined by the act itself. If you take something without the permission of the owner, it is theft, even if you call it taxes. If we go back to that principle, and limit government to only the taxes that are justified even though we are stealing, we won't have a government that uses the tax code as a way to socially engineer its subjects.

Faulty premise. You CAN take something without the permission of the owner, while NOT being theft. It's called taxation.

You can call it whatever you want, I will call it theft.

 

[HenryBHough]

You can call it whatever you want, I will call it theft.

Which does not necessarily make it theft. However you can call a cow pie a chocolate pie and, if you offer it for free, a liberal will eat it and DEMAND more.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

1. Taxation is a normal process of govt, not robbery, not theft.

2. Companies steal from workers the difference between what they should pay (in accordance with work performed), and what they do pay. Simple as that.

3. Workers don't voluntarily accept underpayment. I've answered that already.

1. Theft is a normal function of government, whether you call it taxation or asset forfeiture.
2. If you have evidence that companies are stealing from workers, present it. By the way, the current economic problem is because companies have been paying workers more than they should, not less.
3. I can prove they do.

ALL 3 of your statements are FALSE.

1. Taxation is not theft.

2. The OBVIOUS evidence is that ANY 40 hours of work in a week is worth far more than what many employers pay for that 40 hours. At the federal minimum wage ($7.25 hour), that is a weekly pay of $290. Anyone that would say that $290 is even close to a reasonable match with 40 hours work per week, could easily be defined as an idiot.

3. The current economic problem is because of employers using cheap labor, the wages of which don't go back in to the US economy (the leave the country). For the American workers who are paid less than they should , this also deprives the econimy of $$ input, because the workers don't have enough money to spend in the stores (AKA the economy)

1. The simple statement that something is, or is not, is not proof.
2. Labor is compensated by what you do, not how long you work, anyone smarter than an idiot would know that. (Probably why you are confused.)
3. You didn't even make a point worth refuting there.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Not theft as you use the roads, bridges, weather warning and police protection.

If you don't pay for it then you're committing the theft.

Does that mean that the mob isn't actually stealing from people if they give back in the form of not beating the crap out of them?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The stupidity that “taxation is theft under threat of violence” is what’s wrong with America.

Prove it.

 

[LeftofLeft]

Please be brief. I will briefly state that there probably are 100 things (or more) wrong with America, but I will state just one for now >>

America is too much run by rich people. Members of Congress, the President and Vice-President, and members of the Supreme Court are generally all rich people. What do they know about middle class, lower middle class, and poor people's lives ? How can they make decisions about things they have no experience with, or have long forgotten from years past ? When have these people ever been unemployed, and out looking for a job, with a wide variety of things being used against them ? (credit reports, smear talk from former employers often untrue, etc). The last time I applied for a job I was told I would never get hired because employers require RECENT employment in that job occupation (within last 2 years). There's probably a long list of ways people can be denied a job, that shouldn't exist, and don't make sense.

Name 1 Country that is not run by rich people? As long as pursuit of happiness and civil discourse are in place, nothing is wrong with America. Are pursuit of happiness and civil discourse being threatened? One could argue they are.

 

[P@triot]

Please be brief. I will briefly state that there probably are 100 things (or more) wrong with America, but I will state just one for now >>

America is too much run by rich people. Members of Congress, the President and Vice-President, and members of the Supreme Court are generally all rich people. What do they know about middle class, lower middle class, and poor people's lives ? How can they make decisions about things they have no experience with, or have long forgotten from years past ? When have these people ever been unemployed, and out looking for a job, with a wide variety of things being used against them ? (credit reports, smear talk from former employers often untrue, etc). The last time I applied for a job I was told I would never get hired because employers require RECENT employment in that job occupation (within last 2 years). There's probably a long list of ways people can be denied a job, that shouldn't exist, and don't make sense.

Name 1 Country that is not run by rich people? As long as pursuit of happiness and civil discourse are in place, nothing is wrong with America. Are pursuit of happiness and civil discourse being threatened? One could argue they are.

That's how dumb people like protectionist are - they actually believe the communist shit holes they admire are not run by wealthy people. Little do they know - in all of their glorious ignorance - that the communists nations are run by truly evil people who pretty much control 90% of the entire nations weath.

 

[protectionist]

How is someone paying you an agreed upon salary picking your wallet? How dumb does one have to be to agree to work for less than he's worth, then cry about it by voting to tax his employer to punish the employer for paying him his agreed upon salary?

What's next, what other stupid decisions of yours do you want the government to fix for your sorry ass?

HA HA HA! Oh, "agreed upon", right ? But not quite as bad as someone holding a gun to your head and "asking" you to "agree" with him.
Workers in America, rarely have much choice when it comes to wages. You either work for the rip-off wage they pay, or you go unemployed. Some agreement. Yeah right. Any more brilliant comments you want to contribute ? Pheeeeww! (high-pitched whistle, eyes rolling around in head)

What a retard. News flash, everyone works for someone, even owners work for customers. You don't like what your boss is paying you, find another job dumb ass. Or create your own business and pay yourself what you think you deserve.

Apparently YOU are the retard, dumb-ass. Nothing dumber than a post where the post is already refuted by the quote post it quoted. LOL. Pheeeeeww! Try reading it again. Maybe you'll get it after the 3rd or 4th time.

AS for staring my own business, been there done that. But I started it on practically zero $$, and there's a big difference between that and all those lucky people who have a reasonable amount of start-up capital. In general, starting a business, without start-up capital, is a no-go. And where do you get that start-up capital, when your low-paying job doesn't even adequately cover your necessities ? Save ? No such thing. Find another job ? Why ? When they pay the same rotten rip-off wage ? Sounds like you haven't been through the low-paying job grind for very long.

 

[protectionist]

Please be brief. I will briefly state that there probably are 100 things (or more) wrong with America, but I will state just one for now >>

America is too much run by rich people. Members of Congress, the President and Vice-President, and members of the Supreme Court are generally all rich people. What do they know about middle class, lower middle class, and poor people's lives ? How can they make decisions about things they have no experience with, or have long forgotten from years past ? When have these people ever been unemployed, and out looking for a job, with a wide variety of things being used against them ? (credit reports, smear talk from former employers often untrue, etc). The last time I applied for a job I was told I would never get hired because employers require RECENT employment in that job occupation (within last 2 years). There's probably a long list of ways people can be denied a job, that shouldn't exist, and don't make sense.

Name 1 Country that is not run by rich people? As long as pursuit of happiness and civil discourse are in place, nothing is wrong with America. Are pursuit of happiness and civil discourse being threatened? One could argue they are.

Pursuit of happiness is NOT in place for many (if not the majority) of Americans. Try working at a low-paying job, with no opportunity to get a better one (go ahead and tell there is that opportunity, just go ahead). As I said in the post you quoted, there are a myriad of reasons employers come up with (many of them ridiculous) as to why they will turn down your job application. And civil discourse. HA. With whom ? A bunch of millionaires who are supposed to be your representitive in Congress ? Some representitive when they know NOTHING about the problems you face every day.

 

[protectionist]

Please be brief. I will briefly state that there probably are 100 things (or more) wrong with America, but I will state just one for now >>

America is too much run by rich people. Members of Congress, the President and Vice-President, and members of the Supreme Court are generally all rich people. What do they know about middle class, lower middle class, and poor people's lives ? How can they make decisions about things they have no experience with, or have long forgotten from years past ? When have these people ever been unemployed, and out looking for a job, with a wide variety of things being used against them ? (credit reports, smear talk from former employers often untrue, etc). The last time I applied for a job I was told I would never get hired because employers require RECENT employment in that job occupation (within last 2 years). There's probably a long list of ways people can be denied a job, that shouldn't exist, and don't make sense.

Name 1 Country that is not run by rich people? As long as pursuit of happiness and civil discourse are in place, nothing is wrong with America. Are pursuit of happiness and civil discourse being threatened? One could argue they are.

That's how dumb people like protectionist are - they actually believe the communist shit holes they admire are not run by wealthy people. Little do they know - in all of their glorious ignorance - that the communists nations are run by truly evil people who pretty much control 90% of the entire nations weath.

I never said anything about any communist country, you said that. But there are many countries in Europe with abetter distribution of wealth than the US, and they're not run by evil people. Do you ever get tired of talking stupid ?