What Is Wrong With America ?

[protectionist]

Power and money is the basis of lawmaking, jr.

I was talking about how it SHOULD BE. And don't call me junior, fool.

Why would you start talking about how it should be now, junior?

I thought you leftists were all about ignoring what it should be and bringing on the change.

Well, there it is. Power and money. That is just one of the changse that is wrought by allowing government to expand beyond its legal role.

I'm filing a complaint against you, to the forum for age harassment/discrimination. In the meantime, I'm not interested in anything you have to say Mr, Jerk.

And I'm not a leftist. I am TRUE Conservative, and next to many of my conservative positions (Muslims, immigration, affirmative action, death penalty, etc) you might be left looking like Nancy Pelosi.

I doubt if you even know what a REAL Conservative is. You can find one in my avatar.

 

[Redfish]

I was talking about how it SHOULD BE. And don't call me junior, fool.

Why would you start talking about how it should be now, junior?

I thought you leftists were all about ignoring what it should be and bringing on the change.

Well, there it is. Power and money. That is just one of the changse that is wrought by allowing government to expand beyond its legal role.

I'm filing a complaint against you, to the forum for age harassment/discrimination. In the meantime, I'm not interested in anything you have to say Mr, Jerk.

And I'm not a leftist. I am TRUE Conservative, and next to many of my conservative positions (Muslims, immigration, affirmative action, death penalty, etc) you might be left looking like Nancy Pelosi.

I doubt if you even know what a REAL Conservative is. You can find one in my avatar.

AW, did he hurt your widdle feewings?

 

[Redfish]

I think people are realistic about that, but thats also why most people agree that we need a minimum wage bill

Then why not have the govt guarantee every citizen an income of 100K per year? same pay for every job, EQUALITY, FAIRNESS.

I see that argument all the time, and it is ridiculous. Of Course that would destroy a business.

But if a Business cant pay a wage that provides for a basic existence then it probably doesnt really have a viable business anyway.

A business has no obligation to pay an employee any more than that employee's labor is worth to the business. If you have minimal education and minimal skills, then your labor is not very valuable.

Tell us what hourly wage is needed to provide for "basic existence". is it the same for a guy with 5 kids as a single guy when both are doing the same job? is it the same in NYC as in Fargo, ND ? Is it the same for a healthy person and one with medical issues?

Should the business base its wages on the individual needs of the employees or each employee's contribution to the business?

 

[protectionist]

.
At some point, some people got it into their heads that the reason a business exists is to provide for their employees' financial needs.

It's not the reason we employ people, but it is part of the scenario that should be taken into account. If you don't provide for your employee's financial needs (and they are giving you 40 hours a week of their life), then the following results will occur >>

1. You will have angry employees who will not be motivated to do their best job.(if you fire them, but don't change your mindset, you'll just get more of the same)

2. You will be engaging in immorality, and endangering your immortal soul.

3. You'll be a jerk.

Well, to address #1: I'm all for a business choosing to pay its employees more if it feels that it is a good investment. More power to 'em.

But a business does not exist to provide for its employees' financial needs.

.

"Good investment" is only looking at it from YOUR interests. That's not enough. You're dealing with HUMAN BEINGS whose whole lives depend upon what you pay them.. If you're not capable of including that, you have no business being in business.

Hiring someone is a business deal in which the interests of BOTH parties, must be assessed BY BOTH PARTIES.

 

[Redfish]

It's not the reason we employ people, but it is part of the scenario that should be taken into account. If you don't provide for your employee's financial needs (and they are giving you 40 hours a week of their life), then the following results will occur >>

1. You will have angry employees who will not be motivated to do their best job.(if you fire them, but don't change your mindset, you'll just get more of the same)

2. You will be engaging in immorality, and endangering your immortal soul.

3. You'll be a jerk.

Well, to address #1: I'm all for a business choosing to pay its employees more if it feels that it is a good investment. More power to 'em.

But a business does not exist to provide for its employees' financial needs.

.

"Good investment" is only looking at it from YOUR interests. That's not enough. You're dealing with HUMAN BEINGS whose whole lives depend upon what you pay them.. If you're not capable of including that, you have no business being in business.

Hiring someone is a business deal in which the interests of BOTH parties, must be assessed BY BOTH PARTIES.

No one is forced to work for anyone. the employment agreement is a two party agreement.

" I need a job and I have these experiences and skills" " OK, I can pay you $X to do this job for me" "Ok, when do I start?"

 

[Darkwind]

I was talking about how it SHOULD BE. And don't call me junior, fool.

Why would you start talking about how it should be now, junior?

I thought you leftists were all about ignoring what it should be and bringing on the change.

Well, there it is. Power and money. That is just one of the changse that is wrought by allowing government to expand beyond its legal role.

I'm filing a complaint against you, to the forum for age harassment/discrimination. In the meantime, I'm not interested in anything you have to say Mr, Jerk.

And I'm not a leftist. I am TRUE Conservative, and next to many of my conservative positions (Muslims, immigration, affirmative action, death penalty, etc) you might be left looking like Nancy Pelosi.

I doubt if you even know what a REAL Conservative is. You can find one in my avatar.

File away. What is it your going to complain about? You were not allowed to limit My speech?

You are NOT a true conservative. Evidenced by the fact that you expect government to step in and make things fair.

I'm about as far right as one can get and remain reasonable. A true conservative is one that opposes government expansion, even at his or her own expense.

I doubt you'd ever argue for something greater than yourself. Self interest is the hallmark of a leftist.

 

[protectionist]

.At some point, some people got it into their heads that the reason a business exists is to provide for their employees' financial needs.

It's not the reason we employ people, but it is part of the scenario that should be taken into account. If you don't provide for your employee's financial needs (and they are giving you 40 hours a week of their life), then the following results will occur >>

1. You will have angry employees who will not be motivated to do their best job.(if you fire them, but don't change your mindset, you'll just get more of the same)

2. You will be engaging in immorality, and endangering your immortal soul.

3. You'll be a jerk.

1. you earn what your work is worth to the employer, if you don't like it get more education and/or skills

2. ridiculous, but typical of libtardian thinking

3. even more ridiculous, but also typical.

1. FALSE! You should earn what your work is worth to the employer + what is required for you to make a living. If the employer pays less (for 40 hrs/wk) than what is required, then the employer's offer is worthless.

2. You say it's ridiculous that acting immorally endangers your immortal soul ? You are pitiful.

3. As I said, I'm a Conservative, not a lib.

 

[Redfish]

It's not the reason we employ people, but it is part of the scenario that should be taken into account. If you don't provide for your employee's financial needs (and they are giving you 40 hours a week of their life), then the following results will occur >>

1. You will have angry employees who will not be motivated to do their best job.(if you fire them, but don't change your mindset, you'll just get more of the same)

2. You will be engaging in immorality, and endangering your immortal soul.

3. You'll be a jerk.

1. you earn what your work is worth to the employer, if you don't like it get more education and/or skills

2. ridiculous, but typical of libtardian thinking

3. even more ridiculous, but also typical.

1. FALSE! You should earn what your work is worth to the employer + what is required for you to make a living. If the employer pays less (for 40 hrs/wk) than what is required, then the employer's offer is worthless.

2. You say it's ridiculous that acting immorally endangers your immortal soul ? You are pitiful.

3. As I said, I'm a Conservative, not a lib.

If the prospective employer does not offer you a wage that you think is sufficient, you have a couple of choices, 1. tell him to stick it up his ass. 2. demonstrate that you are worth more than he is offering 3. find another employer 4. go back to school. 5. go on welfare and sit on your sorry ass for the rest of your life.

 

[Darkwind]

It's not the reason we employ people, but it is part of the scenario that should be taken into account. If you don't provide for your employee's financial needs (and they are giving you 40 hours a week of their life), then the following results will occur >>

1. You will have angry employees who will not be motivated to do their best job.(if you fire them, but don't change your mindset, you'll just get more of the same)

2. You will be engaging in immorality, and endangering your immortal soul.

3. You'll be a jerk.

1. you earn what your work is worth to the employer, if you don't like it get more education and/or skills

2. ridiculous, but typical of libtardian thinking

3. even more ridiculous, but also typical.

1. FALSE! You should earn what your work is worth to the employer + what is required for you to make a living. If the employer pays less (for 40 hrs/wk) than what is required, then the employer's offer is worthless.

2. You say it's ridiculous that acting immorally endangers your immortal soul ? You are pitiful.

3. As I said, I'm a Conservative, not a lib.

False? WTF?

Do you have any understanding of business or economics at all? An employer has a fixed amount of cost with regard to tasks that must be done in order for the business to move forward and thrive. That means that if task X is worth 7.50 per hour (lets not forget the other attended costs associated with a wage) to complete, then that is all they will offer. If an employee needs 12 dollars and hour to survive, then they skip the 7.50 per hour job and continue looking until they find the 12 dollar an hour job.

That is reality. It is also what a Conservative would advocate.

 

[Redfish]

It's not the reason we employ people, but it is part of the scenario that should be taken into account. If you don't provide for your employee's financial needs (and they are giving you 40 hours a week of their life), then the following results will occur >>

1. You will have angry employees who will not be motivated to do their best job.(if you fire them, but don't change your mindset, you'll just get more of the same)

2. You will be engaging in immorality, and endangering your immortal soul.

3. You'll be a jerk.

1. you earn what your work is worth to the employer, if you don't like it get more education and/or skills

2. ridiculous, but typical of libtardian thinking

3. even more ridiculous, but also typical.

1. FALSE! You should earn what your work is worth to the employer + what is required for you to make a living. If the employer pays less (for 40 hrs/wk) than what is required, then the employer's offer is worthless.

2. You say it's ridiculous that acting immorally endangers your immortal soul ? You are pitiful.

3. As I said, I'm a Conservative, not a lib.

the phrase in red is what is wrong with thinking in the USA today. That somehow, employers and/or the govt OWE you a living.

 

[Darkwind]

1. you earn what your work is worth to the employer, if you don't like it get more education and/or skills

2. ridiculous, but typical of libtardian thinking

3. even more ridiculous, but also typical.

1. FALSE! You should earn what your work is worth to the employer + what is required for you to make a living. If the employer pays less (for 40 hrs/wk) than what is required, then the employer's offer is worthless.

2. You say it's ridiculous that acting immorally endangers your immortal soul ? You are pitiful.

3. As I said, I'm a Conservative, not a lib.

the phrase in red is what is wrong with thinking in the USA today. That somehow, employers and/or the govt OWE you a living.

Yes. Too many people are going through life thinking that the world owes them something, and that life should be fair.

 

[protectionist]

Why would you start talking about how it should be now, junior?

I thought you leftists were all about ignoring what it should be and bringing on the change.

Well, there it is. Power and money. That is just one of the changse that is wrought by allowing government to expand beyond its legal role.

I'm filing a complaint against you, to the forum for age harassment/discrimination. In the meantime, I'm not interested in anything you have to say Mr, Jerk.

And I'm not a leftist. I am TRUE Conservative, and next to many of my conservative positions (Muslims, immigration, affirmative action, death penalty, etc) you might be left looking like Nancy Pelosi.

I doubt if you even know what a REAL Conservative is. You can find one in my avatar.

File away. What is it your going to complain about? You were not allowed to limit My speech?

You are NOT a true conservative. Evidenced by the fact that you expect government to step in and make things fair.

I'm about as far right as one can get and remain reasonable. A true conservative is one that opposes government expansion, even at his or her own expense.

I doubt you'd ever argue for something greater than yourself. Self interest is the hallmark of a leftist.

1. Not all speech is free, honcho. Read the forum rules and guidelines. I'd guess age discrimination and harassment is not looked at too favorably. You think ?

2. HA HA. SO you think making things fair is not "conservative" ? You are a Reaganist, and not even close to a conservative. You don't even know the meaning of the word, ans most young people under 40 (who never lived in the pre-Reagan era) don't.

3. I argue for the betterment of society (as both leftists and conservatives do) The ones who argue for their own self-interest are the Reaganists - LIKE YOU.

 

[RKMBrown]

And you can blather all day long that taxation is theft, when actually it is the fixing of what was theft, or something akin to it, in the first place.

Actually, it's robbery. Robbery is theft by force. Far worse than just theft.

Besides which, I fail to see how making money by providing people with goods and services they want and need is theft.

People didn't become rich by stealing from you when you gave it to them voluntarily.

1. Taxation is a normal process of govt, not robbery, not theft.

2. Companies steal from workers the difference between what they should pay (in accordance with work performed), and what they do pay. Simple as that.

3. Workers don't voluntarily accept underpayment. I've answered that already.

1) Taxation to fund necessary functions of our government, such as for national defense and other items listed in the Constitution are the normal process of Government. Taxation and borrowing against future taxation to redistribute income from peter's labor to pay paul to sit on his ass is theft.

2) If companies are not paying workers the agreed upon sum we have a court system to take care of that. If people don't like the agreed upon sum they are free to go elsewhere.

3) No one said workers voluntarily accept underpayment. That's some dumb ass strawman you are trying to make up that no one is getting paid what they deserve because the man is keeping you down. You are a coward. You work for the man then complain about it, you are not worth of your job, and clearly being paid to much.

 

[protectionist]

1. FALSE! You should earn what your work is worth to the employer + what is required for you to make a living. If the employer pays less (for 40 hrs/wk) than what is required, then the employer's offer is worthless.

2. You say it's ridiculous that acting immorally endangers your immortal soul ? You are pitiful.

3. As I said, I'm a Conservative, not a lib.

the phrase in red is what is wrong with thinking in the USA today. That somehow, employers and/or the govt OWE you a living.

Yes. Too many people are going through life thinking that the world owes them something, and that life should be fair.

Too many people are going through life thinking that it's OK for life to be unfair, (where it could easily be made to be fair). And I'd say everyone IS owed something. Just a FAIR shake, that's all. But that's not happening in America today with a very small group getting richer and richer, at the expense of everyone else.

 

[Redfish]

I'm filing a complaint against you, to the forum for age harassment/discrimination. In the meantime, I'm not interested in anything you have to say Mr, Jerk.

And I'm not a leftist. I am TRUE Conservative, and next to many of my conservative positions (Muslims, immigration, affirmative action, death penalty, etc) you might be left looking like Nancy Pelosi.

I doubt if you even know what a REAL Conservative is. You can find one in my avatar.

File away. What is it your going to complain about? You were not allowed to limit My speech?

You are NOT a true conservative. Evidenced by the fact that you expect government to step in and make things fair.

I'm about as far right as one can get and remain reasonable. A true conservative is one that opposes government expansion, even at his or her own expense.

I doubt you'd ever argue for something greater than yourself. Self interest is the hallmark of a leftist.

1. Not all speech is free, honcho. Read the forum rules and guidelines. I'd guess age discrimination and harassment is not looked at too favorably. You think ?

2. HA HA. SO you think making things fair is not "conservative" ? You are a Reaganist, and not even close to a conservative. You don't even know the meaning of the word, ans most young people under 40 (who never lived in the pre-Reagan era) don't.

3. I argue for the betterment of society (as both leftists and conservatives do) The ones who argue for their own self-interest are the Reaganists - LIKE YOU.

your view of Reagan and history are very distorted. have you consulted a mental health expert to diagose your comprehension problems?

 

[Redfish]

the phrase in red is what is wrong with thinking in the USA today. That somehow, employers and/or the govt OWE you a living.

Yes. Too many people are going through life thinking that the world owes them something, and that life should be fair.

Too many people are going through life thinking that it's OK for life to be unfair, (where it could easily be made to be fair). And I'd say everyone IS owed something. Just a FAIR shake, that's all. But that's not happening in America today with a very small group getting richer and richer, at the expense of everyone else.

Waa, waa waa little billy has a new bicycle and mine is old, ITS NOT FAIR!!!

Then get your ass out an cut the neighbors grass to make some money and buy yourself a new one.

You are pathetic.

 

[P@triot]

Name 1 Country that is not run by rich people? As long as pursuit of happiness and civil discourse are in place, nothing is wrong with America. Are pursuit of happiness and civil discourse being threatened? One could argue they are.

That's how dumb people like protectionist are - they actually believe the communist shit holes they admire are not run by wealthy people. Little do they know - in all of their glorious ignorance - that the communists nations are run by truly evil people who pretty much control 90% of the entire nations weath.

I never said anything about any communist country, you said that. But there are many countries in Europe with abetter distribution of wealth than the US, and they're not run by evil people. Do you ever get tired of talking stupid ?

Oh my God - you are such a naïve little lap-dog idealist.

Tell you what junior, if those countries are run by such pure, selfless, altruistic individuals, why don't you shut the fuck up and go live there? Put your money where your mouth is!

Exactly....

 

[Darkwind]

I'm filing a complaint against you, to the forum for age harassment/discrimination. In the meantime, I'm not interested in anything you have to say Mr, Jerk.

And I'm not a leftist. I am TRUE Conservative, and next to many of my conservative positions (Muslims, immigration, affirmative action, death penalty, etc) you might be left looking like Nancy Pelosi.

I doubt if you even know what a REAL Conservative is. You can find one in my avatar.

File away. What is it your going to complain about? You were not allowed to limit My speech?

You are NOT a true conservative. Evidenced by the fact that you expect government to step in and make things fair.

I'm about as far right as one can get and remain reasonable. A true conservative is one that opposes government expansion, even at his or her own expense.

I doubt you'd ever argue for something greater than yourself. Self interest is the hallmark of a leftist.

1. Not all speech is free, honcho. Read the forum rules and guidelines. I'd guess age discrimination and harassment is not looked at too favorably. You think ?

2. HA HA. SO you think making things fair is not "conservative" ? You are a Reaganist, and not even close to a conservative. You don't even know the meaning of the word, ans most young people under 40 (who never lived in the pre-Reagan era) don't.

3. I argue for the betterment of society (as both leftists and conservatives do) The ones who argue for their own self-interest are the Reaganists - LIKE YOU.

Knock yourself out. If you want to participate on this forum, you are going to need a thicker skin. I don't care if you are offended or not, and I don't care if you file a complaint. I've not harrassed you, nor done anything other than ignore your demand that I not address you as you want. If you want My respect, then you can earn it. Until then, too fucking bad for you.

I think that making things fair is a recipe for ignoring the rule of law and an abuse of governmental power. Ignoring the rule of law sets precedence for abuse under the guise of doing what is best 'in the public interest'. Except that there will always be only those who lust for power who will determine the public interest, and it won't be for the betterment of the public. History is replete with examples of a small group of people determining what is 'best' for everyone. We even fought a war over it, back about 230+ years ago. Perhaps you remember it?

You are NOT arguing for the betterment of society. You are arguing for government. The very antithetical embodiment of a good society.

 

[RKMBrown]

Who said anything about "punishing the wicked"? Answer: you did. Sure taxes are for funding govt.and they are NOT wrong. Only thing wrong about taxes right now is that they are too small on the rich, and need to be raised to fix a lot of problems, that have been going unfixed, in unfairness to the American people.

Why is it Dumbocrats speak about topics which they are completely and totally uninformed about? The top 1% earned 13% of the wealth but pay 22% of the taxes. The top 20% earned 50% of the wealth but pay 68% of the taxes. Do you see a pattern? The taxes they pay are a much higher percentage than the wealth they are earning.

Now lets look at the other side. The bottom 40% earned 14% of the wealth but pay only 4% of the taxes. The taxes they pay are a much lower percentage than the wealth they are earning.

Only thing wrong about taxes right now [MENTION=45665]protectionist[/MENTION] is that they are way too high on the rich and way too low on the parasites...

You can toss out all the stats you like, but from whom are they derived ? Answer ? The same govt of rich people that I critiqued in the OP. So you're referring to a group of rich people to ask a question about rich people. Cool. Thta's about like asking the honchos of General Motors which is better > a Cadillac or a Lincoln ?

In the days of the old Soviet Union, the govt's "statistics there used to say it was a socialist country with an equal distribution of wealth. Only problem was the members of the Communist Party living in mansions and riding around in limousines, while millions of people were standing on bread lines. And in America ? No county's gap between he rich and the poor is greater the in the, and the US gap is greater than it ever as been since records have been kept, now surpassing the old largest gap (1927)

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2009/8/19/saupload_rich_us.png

PS - if anyone's wondering what we might call this upward surge on the graph since 1980, it could be called "the Reagan era".

The reason we have a "gap" is because we are paying people to be in the "gap." Duh! Anyone living in poverty in this country is doing it because they are lazy and because they would rather get paid to sit on their fat asses and/or remain in minimum wage jobs that high school kids used to fill.

 

[Darkwind]

the phrase in red is what is wrong with thinking in the USA today. That somehow, employers and/or the govt OWE you a living.

Yes. Too many people are going through life thinking that the world owes them something, and that life should be fair.

Too many people are going through life thinking that it's OK for life to be unfair, (where it could easily be made to be fair). And I'd say everyone IS owed something. Just a FAIR shake, that's all. But that's not happening in America today with a very small group getting richer and richer, at the expense of everyone else.

No, too many people are going through life with their empty hand out, looking for fairness. If they filled that hand with a skill, or even a fucking hammer, they'd have that fairness they want.

No one is owed anything.

Life is an activity. That means you are required to participate. You want fair? Go out and earn it.