What Offense Did the Ukrainian People Commit That Caused Them to Be Bombed into Oblivion by The Russian Military at the Command of Putin?

[theHawk]

The Trilateral Process: The United States, Ukraine, Russia and Nuclear Weapons

When the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, Ukraine had the world’s third largest nuclear arsenal on its territory. When Ukrainian-Russian negotiations on removing these weapons from Ukraine appeared to break down in September 1993, the U.S. government engaged in a trilateral process with Ukraine...

www.brookings.edu

When the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, Ukraine had the world’s third largest nuclear arsenal on its territory.

When Ukrainian-Russian negotiations on removing these weapons from Ukraine appeared to break down in September 1993, the U.S. government engaged in a trilateral process with Ukraine and Russia. The result was the Trilateral Statement, signed in January 1994, under which Ukraine agreed to transfer the nuclear warheads to Russia for elimination.

In return, Ukraine received security assurances from the United States, Russia and Britain; compensation for the economic value of the highly-enriched uranium in the warheads (which could be blended down and converted into fuel for nuclear reactors); and assistance from the United States in dismantling the missiles, missile silos, bombers and nuclear infrastructure on its territory. Steven Pifer recounts the history of this unique negotiation and describes the key lessons learned.

None of that contradicts what I stated.

 

[Concerned American]

Ahh, okay, now I get some of it. Was the fear with Cuba being so close is that they could easily or more easily launch missiles that would reach mainland United States?

By the same token, is that supposedly what Putin fears? That Ukraine could militarily launch an offense against Russia?

That and the fact that it is the virtual last straw. Poland, the Baltic states, Hungary and the Czech Republic have already joined NATO. Germany unified and is already a NATO member. Putin's world was closing in.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

NAZI pogroms against the ethnic Russian population in Donbas.

They were not bombed into oblivion by anyone. Just watch the Ukie, American, NATO, and EU news - they are winning.

At what cost are they "winning" (being forced to "win")"

Number of civilian casualties during the war in Ukraine 2022-2024

How many people have died during the war in Ukraine?​

OHCHR has estimated the number of deaths of civilians, or non-armed individuals, in Ukraine at 11,520 since the start of the war on February 24, 2022. The highest death toll was recorded in March 2022, at over 3,900. The figures on soldier deaths are reported by Russia and Ukraine’s governmental authorities, but they cannot be verified at this point and thus need to be taken with caution.

Before-and-after photos capture devastation in Ukraine from Russian strikes​

By
Emily Crane
Published March 3, 2022
Updated March 3, 2022, 12:33 p.m. ET

A bombed residential building on Feb. 26, 2022, in Kyiv, and the same building in May 2015.Chris McGrath/Getty Images; Google Maps

Harrowing before-and-after photos have captured the deadly devastation inflicted on Ukraine in the last week as Russian forces continue to lay siege to cities across the country.

The Kremlin’s escalating shelling attacks on populated areas of Ukraine have destroyed buildings and left rubble strewn across streets and plazas.

An airstrike obliterated an administrative building in Ukraine’s second-largest city, Kharkiv, on Tuesday — with the huge blast leaving the central square piled high with debris and burned-out vehicles.
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Rubble covers the ground in Svobody Square after the shelling by Russian invaders affected the Kharkiv regional state administrative building on March 1, 2022.Vyacheslav Madiyevskyy/ Ukrinform/Future Publishing via Getty Images
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The same view of Svobody Square in June 2015.Google Maps

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Firefighters work to contain a fire at the economics department building of Karazin Kharkiv National University, allegedly hit during recent shelling by Russia on March 2, 2022.SERGEY BOBOK/AFP via Getty Images

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The economics department building at Karazin Kharkiv National University in June 2015.Google Maps
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A view of a destroyed bridge on March 1, 2022, in Irpin, Ukraine.Anastasia Vlasova/Getty Images
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The bridge in Irpin, Ukraine, in April 2018.Google Maps
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Firefighters and emergency services in the vicinity of the bombed civilian building in a residential area on Feb. 26, 2022, in Kyiv, Ukraine.Diego Herrera/Europa Press via Getty Images
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The civilian building in a residential area in May 2015.Google Maps
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A destroyed jewelry shop after a missile launched by Russian invaders hit near the Kharkiv regional state administrative building in Svobody Square.Vyacheslav Madiyevskyy/ Ukrinform/Future Publishing via Getty Images
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The jewelry shop near the Kharkiv regional state administrative building in Svobody Square in June 2015.Google Maps
Just a day later, one of the buildings at the nearby Karazin Kharkiv National University was left burning after a missile struck.
Meanwhile, firefighters in Kyiv were left battling blazes earlier this week when strikes targeted a number of residential buildings.
And residential buildings and bridges were destroyed in Irpin, just outside Kyiv, on Tuesday and Wednesday as Russian forces inched closer to Ukraine’s capital city.
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A view of the central square following shelling of the city hall building in Kharkiv, Ukraine, on March 1, 2022.AP Photo/Pavel Dorogoy
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The same view of Kharkiv’s city hall in June 2015.Google Maps
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Damages after the shelling by Russian forces of Constitution Square in Kharkiv, Ukraine’s second-biggest city, on March 2, 2022.SERGEY BOBOK/AFP via Getty Images
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Constitution Square in Kharkiv in June 2015.Google Maps
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Firefighters try to extinguish a fire at a bombed civilian building in a residential area on Feb. 26, 2022, in Kyiv, Ukraine.Diego Herrera/Europa Press via Getty Images
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The civilian building in a residential area in May 2015.Google Maps
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Bomb damage to the facade of a 10-story building on Feb. 25, 2022, in the Kharkivsky district of Kyiv, Ukraine.Laurent Van der Stockt for Le Monde/Getty Images
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The 10-story building in September 2020.Google Maps
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A residential building destroyed by recent shelling in the city of Irpin in the Kyiv region of Ukraine, March 2, 2022.REUTERS/Serhii Nuzhnenko
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The residential building in Irpin, Ukraine, in May 2015.Google Maps

Before-and-after photos capture devastation in Ukraine from Russian strikes

 

[IM2]

Ukrainian-Russian history is not American-British history. Not all of us have to dumb down historical events to the few we are aware of.

The Russians have lived in those lands for hundreds of years. The Bolshevik USSR drew up borders for the Ukrainian S.S.R. state and included that land full of Russians so they could control their politics (gerrymandering). When the USSR fell, Ukraine later became an independent nation with those same borders, under the condition that Crimea be entirely leased to Russia (the Kharkiv Pact), and also that Ukraine would never join NATO.

Then the Ukraine President was overthrow by a coup and insurrection backed by the EU and the US in 2014, you know, because we love democracy so much.

Then followed a civil war because the ethnic Russians believed the new Kiev government was illegitimate (since it was a puppet regime installed by the US). The new Kiev government also had reneged on the Crimea agreement, which is why Russia just claimed it as their own back then (even Obama didn’t do anything about it). There was peace during President Trump, because he had no intention of provoking war by pushing NATO presence into Ukraine. Then Biden was installed and immediately began to push for NATO membership for Ukraine, which everyone has known for decades would start a war with Russia. Also Kiev started bombing ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine again. And if you knew anything about Russian history, they always declare war on nations that attack Slavs, especially Russian speaking ones.


But hey, don’t worry “bro”. If Kamala is installed we’ll get a real war with Russia, and they’ll have to bring back the draft since no one wants to join the military anymore. So blacks will get to be drafted and sent to die in the trench war in Ukraine. Will you man up and volunteer to fight in this war you support so much? I doubt it.

Harris will be a stronger leader than Trump.

I don't need your history lesson. I already know. It doesn't matter if Russians lived there, that only means that Russians were living in Ukraine. The Ukranian government was not overthrown by a coup. Their parliament (Rada) got rid of Yanukovych who was corrupt and controlled by Putin. Stop believing the story Putin tells you , because Ukranians have been fighting Russians since they invaded Crimea.

So let me put it to you like this, Kuwait used to be part of Iraq, but like Ukraine it declared its independence. When Saddam decided to take back Kuwait, Bush 1 decided to send troops. But you're fine with Putin doing this. There is no justification for this.

 

[Concerned American]

Huh?

No, I'm afraid you don't. Concerned American has misled you. See post #106.

Same analogy. I misled no one. The US threat in Turkey was no different than the soviet threat in Cuba. You're arguing for no reason.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Can you tell the difference between “civilians” and Hamas?

Do I get to shoot everyone because they "might" be Hamas and if I find out that they're not, then just "oh well, sucks to be you, living where you do"?

 

[GLASNOST]

Just watch the Ukie, American, NATO, and EU news - they are winning.

At what cost are they "winning" (being forced to "win")"

It's called sarcasm. They are not winning and they won't.

 

[theHawk]

So let me put it to you like this, Kuwait used to be part of Iraq, but like Ukraine it declared its independence. When Saddam decided to take back Kuwait, Bush 1 decided to send troops. But you're fine with Putin doing this. There is no justification for this

Glad you brought that up. When Britain drew up the borders of Iraq, they took away their only deep water port and created Kuwait. Yet another example of outside powers meddling in the affairs of those people and drawing up nonsensical borders with no regards to the people there. Hence why Iraq had been a war torn shit hole for its entire modern history.

 

[GLASNOST]

Same analogy. I misled no one. The US threat in Turkey was no different than the soviet threat in Cuba. You're arguing for no reason.

Step aside. You understand nothing at all. Tip? Try chronological order.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

There is a big difference between Israel and Palestine.

The problem in Palestine is that you have groups like Hamas who hate the Jews and have been wanting to wipe them out for a long time. The Jews have been fighting for their very existence there. In the Ukraine Putin is the bully, wanting to take land to improve his historical image.

Sorry, I hit the wrong button.

When you say "the Jews have been fighting for their very existence there..." are you referring to Israel or Palestine?

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

That and the fact that it is the virtual last straw. Poland, the Baltic states, Hungary and the Czech Republic have already joined NATO. Germany unified and is already a NATO member. Putin's world was closing in.

What is so horrible about Ukraine joining NATO, other than it would then have their backing it they were attacked, which would be a good thing for them it would seem. Maybe not so much for Putin but he's not exactly in the right here from everything I've gathered especially this evening from all of you all.

 

[frigidweirdo]

.

Er.. what?

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Hey, I want to thank everyone who participated in this thread, answered my questions, and help clarify my understanding of the conflict between Ukraine & Russia.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Er.. what?

Hit the wrong button, corrected below, sorry

 

[GLASNOST]

Same analogy. I misled no one. The US threat in Turkey was no different than the soviet threat in Cuba. You're arguing for no reason.

Step aside. You understand nothing at all. Tip? Try chronological order.

Chronological order is not "Fake News".

 

[jknowgood]

As I understand it, it was because Ukraine was making a bid to join NATO. On the one hand it’s a legitimate concern for Russia to have NATO at their back door but on the other, it’s hardly justification for starting a war.

There may be more to it than that but as I said, it’s my understanding of the situation.

No Biden told Putin that the United States was probably going to let Ukraine join nato.

 

[progressive hunter]

as far as ukraine is concerned it would be long over if the democrats didnt get us involved,,

putin would have the donbas and his land bridge and the fighting would be over,,

but because the ukraine has been where a lot of high power democrats have been laundering their money they have to join the fight to avoid having their corruption exposed,,

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

No Biden told Putin that the United States was probably going to let Ukraine join nato.

Probably. My understanding of the situation is very basic.

 

[surada]

Same analogy. I misled no one. The US threat in Turkey was no different than the soviet threat in Cuba. You're arguing for no reason.

We pushed Cuba into the arms of Soviets.

 

[Concerned American]

What is so horrible about Ukraine joining NATO, other than it would then have their backing it they were attacked, which would be a good thing for them it would seem. Maybe not so much for Putin but he's not exactly in the right here from everything I've gathered especially this evening from all of you all.

I really don't care either way. Not my countries, not my war. I don't want to see any more American lives or money in a war that we don't have any business in. We already did that in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan.