What Offense Did the Ukrainian People Commit That Caused Them to Be Bombed into Oblivion by The Russian Military at the Command of Putin?

[Fort Fun Indiana]

One can never have enough. Assassination is tough. If you fail he can launch nukes. He is a former KGB assassin himself. But he is older now. Anything is possible I guess.

That's what scares me.

Crazy old man with one foot in the grave in a couple years lobs a couple nukes.

 

[IM2]

Let me guess, history is racist?

We aren't talking about race here. The fact is that Ukraine was not a Russian province when Putin decided to attack. There is no justification for it and it doesn't matter how many maps you show. America was once a British colony, so does that .give Britain the right to invade America?

You woudn't accept some British idiot showing you an old map that doesn't apply today in order to justify it. So stop sucking on Putin.

 

[IM2]

I'm sure that Putin looked at the threat of NATO membership by Ukraine was similar to the way Kennedy felt about Cuba inviting Russian bases into the Caribbean in 1962.

There is no equivence between these two things.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

IM2 is dumber than a tree stump

The statement made by IM2 is correct as well as factual:

Ukraine was never officially a "province" of Russia, but large parts of Ukraine were under Russian control during significant periods of history, particularly as part of the Russian Empire and later the Soviet Union.​

1. Russian Empire: Following the Treaty of Pereyaslav in 1654, parts of Ukraine came under Russian influence. By the late 18th century, with the partitions of Poland, most of Ukraine was absorbed into the Russian Empire. Ukraine was not a single administrative unit within the empire but was divided into various governorates (provinces), often referred to collectively as "Little Russia." Under the Russian Empire, Ukrainian identity was heavily suppressed, particularly through policies of Russification, which aimed to assimilate Ukrainian culture and language into Russian culture.
   • Source: Encyclopedia Britannica on Ukraine under the Russian Empire
2. Soviet Union: After the Russian Revolution of 1917 and a brief period of Ukrainian independence, Ukraine became a founding republic of the Soviet Union in 1922. As the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, it was technically a federal republic within the Soviet Union, but in reality, it was heavily controlled by the central government in Moscow. Ukraine remained a part of the Soviet Union until it declared independence in 1991, following the collapse of the USSR.
   • Source: Britannica on Ukraine’s Soviet history
   • Source: History.com on Ukraine and the Soviet Union

To summarize: Ukraine was not a formal "province" of Russia but was part of the Russian Empire and later the Soviet Union for long periods, during which its culture and autonomy were suppressed under Russian rule.​

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Some but not all. Hence there is internal conflict too. Many still align with Russia and Zelenskyy making Russian illegal to speak didn’t help

Well making it unlawful to speak any particular language doesn't sound good. It's makes Zelenskyy start to sound more like Putin, in my opinion.

 

[GLASNOST]

I'm sure that Putin looked at the threat of NATO membership by Ukraine was similar to the way Kennedy felt about Cuba inviting Russian bases into the Caribbean in 1962.

Wrong. Putin sees the threat of NATO membership by Ukraine similar to what Kruschev felt about the American missiles in Turkey aimed at Soviet cities inside the USSR. THAT is the proper comparison.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

He wants the support of his people. Finland was never part of the SU but Ukraine was. He wants to bring the band back together. For whatever reason. It’s a bizarre situation and we need to stay out of it IMO.

I am very glad to hear you opine that it's a bizarre situation because it's always been hurtful to me even though I'm not a part of the conflict.

I know that the likelihood of this happening is slim to none, but I know none of us could even fathom another country beginning to bomb the U.S. to try to force us to do ANYTHING.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Don’t forget that Ukraine embraced the Nazis and many Ukrainians served as guards at Nazi death camps.

I wasn't aware of this.

 

[frigidweirdo]

In thinking about why Israel is destroying Gaza and killing tens of thousands of innocent civilians, it caused me, in comparison, to wonder why Putin began bombing Ukraine. I honestly could not remember why this all began.

I'm sure we all agree that retaliating for having been attacked and having your citizens abducted and killed is more than reason enough to go after the perpetrators, even if we do not necessarily agree with how they are going about carrying this out. But what I'm struck with at the moment is how Putin was NOT defending Russia, or retaliating for an attack against the country and its people. This wholesale slaughter of innocent people seems to be based on ideology?

There is a big difference between Israel and Palestine.

The problem in Palestine is that you have groups like Hamas who hate the Jews and have been wanting to wipe them out for a long time. The Jews have been fighting for their very existence there. In the Ukraine Putin is the bully, wanting to take land to improve his historical image.

 

[GLASNOST]

I'm sure that Putin looked at the threat of NATO membership by Ukraine was similar to the way Kennedy felt about Cuba inviting Russian bases into the Caribbean in 1962.

Huh?

Ahh, okay, now I get some of it.

No, I'm afraid you don't. Concerned American has misled you. See post #106.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Well making it unlawful to speak any particular language doesn't sound good. It's makes Zelenskyy start to sound more like Putin, in my opinion.

It does not. They have done this one city: Kyiv. It would be like banning Spanish language plays and music in DC.

 

[IM2]

There is a big difference between Israel and Palestine.

The problem in Palestine is that you have groups like Hamas who hate the Jews and have been wanting to wipe them out for a long time. The Jews have been fighting for their very existence there. In the Ukraine Putin is the bully, wanting to take land to improve his historical image.

The Jewish government is not as innocent as you think.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

There is ocean between the U.S. and Cuba. It's not like we a sharing a land border. That being said, we would probably start aggression against Cuba if they started threatening US. Like last time.

Yes, you're correct but the distant is not as great as we might imagine.

Remember how many people were showing up on the shores of Florida on rickety rafts and other devices of questionable buoyancy from Cuba and even Haiti?

 

[theHawk]

We aren't talking about race here. The fact is that Ukraine was not a Russian province when Putin decided to attack. There is no justification for it and it doesn't matter how many maps you show. America was once a British coony, so does that .give Britain the rightto invde America?

You woudn't accept some British idiot showing you an old map that doesn't apply today in order to justify it. So stop sucking on Putin.

Ukrainian-Russian history is not American-British history. Not all of us have to dumb down historical events to the few we are aware of.

The Russians have lived in those lands for hundreds of years. The Bolshevik USSR drew up borders for the Ukrainian S.S.R. state and included that land full of Russians so they could control their politics (gerrymandering). When the USSR fell, Ukraine later became an independent nation with those same borders, under the condition that Crimea be entirely leased to Russia (the Kharkiv Pact), and also that Ukraine would never join NATO.

Then the Ukraine President was overthrow by a coup and insurrection backed by the EU and the US in 2014, you know, because we love democracy so much.

Then followed a civil war because the ethnic Russians believed the new Kiev government was illegitimate (since it was a puppet regime installed by the US). The new Kiev government also had reneged on the Crimea agreement, which is why Russia just claimed it as their own back then (even Obama didn’t do anything about it). There was peace during President Trump, because he had no intention of provoking war by pushing NATO presence into Ukraine. Then Biden was installed and immediately began to push for NATO membership for Ukraine, which everyone has known for decades would start a war with Russia. Also Kiev started bombing ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine again. And if you knew anything about Russian history, they always declare war on nations that attack Slavs, especially Russian speaking ones.


But hey, don’t worry “bro”. If Kamala is installed we’ll get a real war with Russia, and they’ll have to bring back the draft since no one wants to join the military anymore. So blacks will get to be drafted and sent to die in the trench war in Ukraine. Will you man up and volunteer to fight in this war you support so much? I doubt it.

 

[GLASNOST]

... When the USSR fell, Ukraine later became an independent nation with those same borders, under the condition that Crimea be entirely leased to Russia (the Kharkiv Pact), and also that Ukraine would never join NATO.....

That's the crux of it, yes.

 

[surada]

some time ago the RUSSIAN EMPIRE owned the Ukraine. The Ukraine did not particularly LIKE the idea---but it was OWNED by the RUSSIAN EMPIRE. Some time ago, Israel was invaded by arab muslims and OWNED by the "caliphate"------SEE? same thing

The Arabs fought with the British to get rid of the Ottoman empire. The Jews had nothing to do with it. They moved in after WW1.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

What rule says that people must have done something so bad they deserve evil acts against them?
Sometimes that happens and the answer is revenge in that case.
In this case, whatever the motivation, Russian leaders want the land of Ukraine. Being evil, they just intend to take it and kill the people that object.

There is no rule that says that obviously, although we do have laws regarding rules of engagement from I understand.

I just don't think they are much adhered to.

 

[surada]

Ukrainian-Russian history is not American-British history. Not all of us have to dumb down historical events to the few we are aware of.

The Russians have lived in those lands for hundreds of years. The Bolshevik USSR drew up borders for the Ukrainian S.S.R. state and included that land full of Russians so they could control their politics (gerrymandering). When the USSR fell, Ukraine later became an independent nation with those same borders, under the condition that Crimea be entirely leased to Russia (the Kharkiv Pact), and also that Ukraine would never join NATO.

Then the Ukraine President was overthrow by a coup and insurrection backed by the EU and the US in 2014, you know, because we love democracy so much.

Then followed a civil war because the ethnic Russians believed the new Kiev government was illegitimate (since it was a puppet regime installed by the US). The new Kiev government also had reneged on the Crimea agreement, which is why Russia just claimed it as their own back then (even Obama didn’t do anything about it). There was peace during President Trump, because he had no intention of provoking war by pushing NATO presence into Ukraine. Then Biden was installed and immediately began to push for NATO membership for Ukraine, which everyone has known for decades would start a war with Russia. Also Kiev started bombing ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine again. And if you knew anything about Russian history, they always declare war on nations that attack Slavs, especially Russian speaking ones.


But hey, don’t worry “bro”. If Kamala is installed we’ll get a real war with Russia, and they’ll have to bring back the draft since no one wants to join the military anymore. So blacks will get to be drafted and sent to die in the trench war in Ukraine. Will you man up and volunteer to fight in this war you support so much? I doubt it.

What was the agreement with Ukraine about missiles?

 

[surada]

Ukraine has been in a civil war since 2014.

Educate yourself.

The Trilateral Process: The United States, Ukraine, Russia and Nuclear Weapons

When the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, Ukraine had the world’s third largest nuclear arsenal on its territory. When Ukrainian-Russian negotiations on removing these weapons from Ukraine appeared to break down in September 1993, the U.S. government engaged in a trilateral process with Ukraine...

www.brookings.edu

When the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, Ukraine had the world’s third largest nuclear arsenal on its territory.

When Ukrainian-Russian negotiations on removing these weapons from Ukraine appeared to break down in September 1993, the U.S. government engaged in a trilateral process with Ukraine and Russia. The result was the Trilateral Statement, signed in January 1994, under which Ukraine agreed to transfer the nuclear warheads to Russia for elimination.

In return, Ukraine received security assurances from the United States, Russia and Britain; compensation for the economic value of the highly-enriched uranium in the warheads (which could be blended down and converted into fuel for nuclear reactors); and assistance from the United States in dismantling the missiles, missile silos, bombers and nuclear infrastructure on its territory. Steven Pifer recounts the history of this unique negotiation and describes the key lessons learned.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

He has support of enough to continue this war. Not all. He has sold them that Ukraine has embraced Nazis, the Soviets historic enemy. That’s enough to drive the population crazy. In Russia, the ultimate evil are the Nazis. 25mil Russians died in WW2 and some vets are still alive to tell the tales.

Putin has played his people like a violin

If Russia has always been one of the Allies during both WWI & WWII when and how did they end up at odds with the United States? All I can remember from grade school when first learning about Russia is that they were the "bad guys" in the scenario because they were communist, practiced "propaganda", and that most of the people were poor, miserable and cold and had to stand in bread lines.

I know that's pathetic but that's what I remember from what was probably 4th grade history.