What role did education have in making this country great?

[Dr.Traveler]

you go to private school 57Frank?

I went to public school; we had summer reading and kids got left back and had to repeat the grade they failed

I studied Dante, in 7th grade. In public school, in the Bronx.

Different times.

Unfortunately, I agree with you here. Where I went to public school I had a math Ph'D teaching Calculus and my classes had some fairly high standards. And I was in a fairly rural middle of no where school.

I'm looking at the local public schools and they're practically an advertisement for Private School. I'm saving up now because I don't even see it as a possibility that my son would get an education anywhere near the quality he'll need at the public schools.

That needs to change quickly. However, I do not know how to do that. Part of the problem is the parents. I know several teachers that carry malpractice insurance because of the possibility of lawsuits from parents over a student's grade. When parents will sue you for handing out a (well deserved) bad grade and the administration will fire you for an increased DWF rate, how is a teacher supposed to stay strong?

I had a 6th grade math teacher that was a real $!+c# when it came to minutia of details. She'd routinely hand out failing grades to a fairly high percentage of kids. However, it was well known that if you did pass her class, you'd kick tail for the rest of your student career because passing her class meant you'd learned to work hard and pay attention to details. She may be one of the best teachers I ever had. She'd be fired in a heart beat today and sued into bankruptcy by parents.

So what's the solution here?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

you go to private school 57Frank?

I went to public school; we had summer reading and kids got left back and had to repeat the grade they failed

I studied Dante, in 7th grade. In public school, in the Bronx.

Different times.

Unfortunately, I agree with you here. Where I went to public school I had a math Ph'D teaching Calculus and my classes had some fairly high standards. And I was in a fairly rural middle of no where school.

I'm looking at the local public schools and they're practically an advertisement for Private School. I'm saving up now because I don't even see it as a possibility that my son would get an education anywhere near the quality he'll need at the public schools.

That needs to change quickly. However, I do not know how to do that. Part of the problem is the parents. I know several teachers that carry malpractice insurance because of the possibility of lawsuits from parents over a student's grade. When parents will sue you for handing out a (well deserved) bad grade and the administration will fire you for an increased DWF rate, how is a teacher supposed to stay strong?

I had a 6th grade math teacher that was a real $!+c# when it came to minutia of details. She'd routinely hand out failing grades to a fairly high percentage of kids. However, it was well known that if you did pass her class, you'd kick tail for the rest of your student career because passing her class meant you'd learned to work hard and pay attention to details. She may be one of the best teachers I ever had. She'd be fired in a heart beat today and sued into bankruptcy by parents.

So what's the solution here?

1. Privatization. Give parents a education voucher, let them work it out

2. Send the UFT Leadership to Gitmo

3. Close the US Department of "Education", keep a small sample in a Level IV Biocontainment facility so we never forget how dangerous letting Liberal run education is to civilization.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

I went to public school; we had summer reading and kids got left back and had to repeat the grade they failed

I studied Dante, in 7th grade. In public school, in the Bronx.

Different times.

Unfortunately, I agree with you here. Where I went to public school I had a math Ph'D teaching Calculus and my classes had some fairly high standards. And I was in a fairly rural middle of no where school.

I'm looking at the local public schools and they're practically an advertisement for Private School. I'm saving up now because I don't even see it as a possibility that my son would get an education anywhere near the quality he'll need at the public schools.

That needs to change quickly. However, I do not know how to do that. Part of the problem is the parents. I know several teachers that carry malpractice insurance because of the possibility of lawsuits from parents over a student's grade. When parents will sue you for handing out a (well deserved) bad grade and the administration will fire you for an increased DWF rate, how is a teacher supposed to stay strong?

I had a 6th grade math teacher that was a real $!+c# when it came to minutia of details. She'd routinely hand out failing grades to a fairly high percentage of kids. However, it was well known that if you did pass her class, you'd kick tail for the rest of your student career because passing her class meant you'd learned to work hard and pay attention to details. She may be one of the best teachers I ever had. She'd be fired in a heart beat today and sued into bankruptcy by parents.

So what's the solution here?

1. Privatization. Give parents a education voucher, let them work it out

2. Send the UFT Leadership to Gitmo

3. Close the US Department of "Education", keep a small sample in a Level IV Biocontainment facility so we never forget how dangerous letting Liberal run education is to civilization.

On a serious note, as I get older I'm leaning more and more towards the Privatization route, or at least something along the lines of how the colleges run. Give financial aid or vouchers to all families that show need, provide a remedial option for the kids that can't get in anywhere, and then make folks have to actually apply and work at staying in their school of choice. People might have to value school more.

The problem is how do you run this in the rural settings. The above system would work well in larger areas that could support multiple schools.

 

[starcraftzzz]

Many of the great thinkers and inventors in our history did not have college educations and some didn't finish high school.

Part of the reason this is true is because prior to WWII, the US school system was largely seen as a joke. It wasn't until the Nazi's drove the worlds greatest Mathematicians and Physicists out of Europe and into the Institute of Advanced Studies at MIT and other colleges all over the USA that the USA emerged as a leader in Mathematics and Physics.

We are still seen as a world leader in the studies of Physics and Mathematics at the graduate and post graduate levels because the USA draws in some of the greatest minds in the world at that level. We're falling behind at the lower levels because we're failing to follow up on the push to improve math and physics education that helped drive the Space Race.

ROTFL you don't even know the diference between test scores and letter grades.

 

[starcraftzzz]

1. Privatization. Give parents a education voucher, let them work it out

Of which vouchers don't work
The Milwaukee Voucher Failure | ThinkProgress
^Vouchers fail in Milwaukee

About Those Milwaukee Vouchers | ThinkProgress
^Milwaukee students who take vouchers and go to private schools score anywhere from 10-30% lower on standardized tests.

Public Schools Outperform Private Schools in Math Instruction
^ILL researchers have found that public school students outscore private score students in math because public schools have more certified teachers, and curriculum that de-emphasized learning by rote methods.


Vouchers in Arizona lead to corruption; Vouchers completely fail.
Vouchers lead to tax fraud, and voucher money goes to enriching CEO's
Voucher FAIL in Arizona | ThinkProgress

3. Close the US Department of "Education", keep a small sample in a Level IV Biocontainment facility so we never forget how dangerous letting Liberal run education is to civilization.

I see so you think making it tens of millions of students cant afford college is a good thing
Furthermore one of the DOE"S biggest spending priority is per-schooling of which it creates $9 in economic benefits for every dollar spent

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Many of the great thinkers and inventors in our history did not have college educations and some didn't finish high school.

Part of the reason this is true is because prior to WWII, the US school system was largely seen as a joke. It wasn't until the Nazi's drove the worlds greatest Mathematicians and Physicists out of Europe and into the Institute of Advanced Studies at MIT and other colleges all over the USA that the USA emerged as a leader in Mathematics and Physics.

We are still seen as a world leader in the studies of Physics and Mathematics at the graduate and post graduate levels because the USA draws in some of the greatest minds in the world at that level. We're falling behind at the lower levels because we're failing to follow up on the push to improve math and physics education that helped drive the Space Race.

ROTFL you don't even know the diference between test scores and letter grades.

???

 

[rdean]

Can you consider people who think that tax write offs as "subsidies" truly educated?

Are people who post articles as fact from a satiric newspaper like say, The Onion, truly educated?

“Son, when I appoint a ****** to the court, I want everyone to know he’s a ******.” -- Dem Civil Rights "Hero" LBJ on Thurgood Marshall

Still trying to push that? From the guy who loves the word "******". How many conversations did you manage to work that word into today? How many people do you call that behind their back? I bet every one you can.

 

[rdean]

Test scores have risen amongst the poor because test scores have gone up. The level of education has gone down. They have gone up because of social promotion and grade inflation. The policy of giving everyone an A doesn't mean that everyone deserves an A, just that they got one.

High school graduates today cannot read a newspaper. They cannot do simple arithmetic. They cannot write their own names. They think that the Titanic was just a movie by James Cameron. They cannot locate the United States on a world map. They graduated with test scores that are quite high. They made it. They are educated because someone told them so. They are NOT educated. When they go out into the world, they will have to compete with all of those who have real educations. They have only failure ahead of them.

Obama's base: uneducated and totally dependent on government

Social Security is the nation's largest welfare program, although many Whites prefer to call it a retirement plan. The government writes retirement and disability benefit checks to 35.4 million recipients of whom 88.7 percent are White and 9.6 percent are Black.

Who gets welfare? Despite prevailing stereotype, whites, not blacks, collect greatest share of public aid dollars

77% of all Medicare benefits go to whites. Wanna bet the majority of those are Republicans?:

Medicare Beneficiaries by Race/Ethnicity - Kaiser State Health Facts

For some odd reason, this is acceptable rhetoric among the conservative political class. It is especially troubling because every reliable statistic shows that white Americans are the overwhelming beneficiaries of welfare in this country and make up the largest number of those in poverty by a wide and substantial margin. The Republicans' well-rehearsed lies on the subject have been so effective that people of every hue have come to believe them, feeding widespread ignorance about the true face of poverty and the ever-growing gap between America's rich and poor.

Whites and Welfare: GOP and the Food Stamp Fallacy

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Can you consider people who think that tax write offs as "subsidies" truly educated?

Are people who post articles as fact from a satiric newspaper like say, The Onion, truly educated?

“Son, when I appoint a ****** to the court, I want everyone to know he’s a ******.” -- Dem Civil Rights "Hero" LBJ on Thurgood Marshall

Still trying to push that? From the guy who loves the word "******". How many conversations did you manage to work that word into today? How many people do you call that behind their back? I bet every one you can.

LBJ loved the word. He used it to describe Martin Luther King and Malcolm X, both of whom got assassinated while he was President. He even used it to describe his own SCOTUS pick Thurgood Marshall

 

[rdean]

Can you consider people who think that tax write offs as "subsidies" truly educated?

Are people who post articles as fact from a satiric newspaper like say, The Onion, truly educated?

“Son, when I appoint a ****** to the court, I want everyone to know he’s a ******.” -- Dem Civil Rights "Hero" LBJ on Thurgood Marshall

Still trying to push that? From the guy who loves the word "******". How many conversations did you manage to work that word into today? How many people do you call that behind their back? I bet every one you can.

LBJ loved the word. He used it to describe Martin Luther King and Malcolm X, both of whom got assassinated while he was President. He even used it to describe his own SCOTUS pick Thurgood Marshall

That's only hearsay. The one who loves the word is YOU. Come on. Tell the truth. Don't you say that 20 or 30 times a day? Don't you say it behind the backs of every black person you know? Just be honest. I won't tell anyone.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If we don't educate our children, what will the future of America be like?

What role did education have in anything?

Education is a concept, an idea, even a goal. Concepts do not have roles. Next time I see Jerry Brown I will ask him what he thinks will happen with all the cuts to higher education in California. I expect I already know the answer, but I want to get it from a Democrat so you can't argue with it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The best thing we can do for children's education is to admit that the public education system has failed beyond the point where it can be fixed. Find another way. The worst thing we can do is take the failed policies of K-12 education and extend it into college education. Much of the same failures have already been implemented making it worse won't help.

"Make better" is not a policy. Give examples please.

Neither is spend more.

I would ask for examples, but I know with whom I am conversing. (Look, no dangling participle, the proper use of the nominative case, and a whom. I did that to prove I know how to talk, and to prove I am educated, now I will go back to talking like a real person.)

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Pretty big role I would say. But it was a lot better before the Federal government got involved.

You mean in the 50's and 60's when Eisenhower and Kennedy pushed education in public schools? Eisenhower started NASA, which Kennedy promoted. Then there was the GI Bill which funded college education. In fact, wasn't it government involvement in schools that made quality education available for white people? Remember, black schools and schools in poor areas were hovels.

More like in the 1980s, after Carter made it a cabinet level post and started throwing money, and mandates, around.

 

[Katzndogz]

Can you consider people who think that tax write offs as "subsidies" truly educated?

Are people who post articles as fact from a satiric newspaper like say, The Onion, truly educated?

“Son, when I appoint a ****** to the court, I want everyone to know he’s a ******.” -- Dem Civil Rights "Hero" LBJ on Thurgood Marshall

Still trying to push that? From the guy who loves the word "******". How many conversations did you manage to work that word into today? How many people do you call that behind their back? I bet every one you can.

LBJ loved the word. He used it to describe Martin Luther King and Malcolm X, both of whom got assassinated while he was President. He even used it to describe his own SCOTUS pick Thurgood Marshall

When LBJ used that word, it wasn't a bad word. Like the censorship we want to impose on Mark Twain. It wasn't a bad word until libs started making it a bad word. Like so many other words we can't say anymore. It's doubleplus good in newspeak.

 

[starcraftzzz]

Pretty big role I would say. But it was a lot better before the Federal government got involved.

You mean in the 50's and 60's when Eisenhower and Kennedy pushed education in public schools? Eisenhower started NASA, which Kennedy promoted. Then there was the GI Bill which funded college education. In fact, wasn't it government involvement in schools that made quality education available for white people? Remember, black schools and schools in poor areas were hovels.

More like in the 1980s, after Carter made it a cabinet level post and started throwing money, and mandates, around.

Test scores have increased since 1980; furthermore the DOE's funding is primarily in pre-school programs, special education and college funding all of which create more economic benefits then they cost

 

[Katzndogz]

You mean in the 50's and 60's when Eisenhower and Kennedy pushed education in public schools? Eisenhower started NASA, which Kennedy promoted. Then there was the GI Bill which funded college education. In fact, wasn't it government involvement in schools that made quality education available for white people? Remember, black schools and schools in poor areas were hovels.

More like in the 1980s, after Carter made it a cabinet level post and started throwing money, and mandates, around.

Test scores have increased since 1980; furthermore the DOE's funding is primarily in pre-school programs, special education and college funding all of which create more economic benefits then they cost

Of course test scores have increased. That's what happens when the tests are either dumbed down, the answers given in advance or the scores are just made up.

Our entire educational system has been geared toward the ignorant for years.

 

[Katzndogz]

Preschool education like Head Start has been such a failure that even obama can't lie about it.

It needs to end.

Obama Administration Report Shows Head Start Ineffective


In sum, this report finds that providing access to Head Start has benefits for both 3-year-olds and 4-year-olds in the cognitive, health, and parenting domains, and for 3-year-olds in the social-emotional domain. However, the benefits of access to Head Start at age four are largely absent by 1st grade for the program population as a whole. For 3-year-olds, there are few sustained benefits, although access to the program may lead to improved parent-child relationships through 1st grade…

While these results are uninspiring, they become even less impressive when more closely examined. Heritage’s David Muhlhausen calls into question the less-than-rigorous statistical methods employed by HHS:


Interestingly enough, they had to fiddle with the statistics just to look as good as they did.

 

[rdean]

if we don't educate our children, what will the future of america be like?

what role did education have in anything?

education is a concept, an idea, even a goal. Concepts do not have roles. Next time i see jerry brown i will ask him what he thinks will happen with all the cuts to higher education in california. I expect i already know the answer, but i want to get it from a democrat so you can't argue with it.

i rest my case!​

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You mean in the 50's and 60's when Eisenhower and Kennedy pushed education in public schools? Eisenhower started NASA, which Kennedy promoted. Then there was the GI Bill which funded college education. In fact, wasn't it government involvement in schools that made quality education available for white people? Remember, black schools and schools in poor areas were hovels.

More like in the 1980s, after Carter made it a cabinet level post and started throwing money, and mandates, around.

Test scores have increased since 1980; furthermore the DOE's funding is primarily in pre-school programs, special education and college funding all of which create more economic benefits then they cost

We didn't do tests back then, and teachers are getting better at cheating.

 

[Samson]

Pretty big role I would say. But it was a lot better before the Federal government got involved.

IMHO this is the best post of the thread.

Ironically, it appears to be the least quoted.