What Should Happen To The Person/s That Sells Guns Illegally

[Kosh]

I read he bought the gun from a sports store. It seems they didn't run the background check -- or-- isn't there some law that if the results aren't back within 48 hours, they have to sell you the gun anyway?
Maybe he gave a fake name?
Who knows, but it wasn't an "illegal" street sale.

Well it seems the NBC far left narrative has panned out to not be true!

In April 2016, Kelley purchased the Ruger AR-556 rifle he allegedly used in the shooting from a store in San Antonio, Texas, a law enforcement official said. There was no disqualifying information in the background check conducted as required for the purchase, a law enforcement official told CNN.

Texas gunman killed his grandmother-in-law and 25 others at church - CNN

How could that be? In Texas, DV convictions don't keep you from owning a gun?

He was court-martialed in 2012 for assault on his spouse and assault on their child, according to Stefanek. He served a year in confinement, received a bad conduct discharge and had his rank reduced.

It was not reported as DV it was reported as bad conduct discharge.

Oh, wow. Although it was reported that way, was he allowed to own a gun? Because if he was, the armed forces should take a look at that.

This could have shown in his background check, but since it did not specify DV, it may have been over looked.

Without knowing the details of a bad conduct charge, it could pass a regular back ground check!

If this is the case I am all for making sure that people know the charges!

 

[Kosh]

Criminals can also steal a car and drive it without a license. That doesn’t mean we should make all cas free and stop issuing drivers licenses. Yes I realize there is a second amendment but I’m not talking about taking guns away I’m talking about the best ways to regulate for the safety of our public

Well when you come up with an effective way to regulate the criminal gun market, I'll be happy to discuss how the law abiding should be regulated. You might want to take a refresher course on the 14th amendment and the equal protection clause.


.

The far left does not care about the Constitution.

It is all about the narratives they can run, nothing else.

So far none on the far left has been able to provide any evidence to any existing laws that would have stopped many of these mass shooting!

And as you have already stated (and I will paraphrase): Gun laws only affect law abiding citizens!

This has nothing to do with the far left or the constitution , the conversation is about can we do anything about the selling of illegal guns.

Says the far left drone!

The gun was not illegal and yes it is about the far left not being able to cite anything that would really help.

The Constitution is always in play no matter how much the far left just sees it as a GD piece of paper!

There is nothing in the constitution or amendments to the constitution about what we could/should do about illegal gun sales

See how the far left wants to paint this as an illegal gun sale, yet it was legal!

 

[OKTexas]

So you have no problem being required to do something illegal owners can't be required to do. Registration won't be free, transfers won't be free, yet criminals can do anything they want and not spend a dime. I have a big problem with that.


.

Criminals can also steal a car and drive it without a license. That doesn’t mean we should make all cas free and stop issuing drivers licenses. Yes I realize there is a second amendment but I’m not talking about taking guns away I’m talking about the best ways to regulate for the safety of our public

Well when you come up with an effective way to regulate the criminal gun market, I'll be happy to discuss how the law abiding should be regulated. You might want to take a refresher course on the 14th amendment and the equal protection clause.


.

I don’t think it’s possible to regulate a criminal market. That is a law enforcement issue, wouldn’t you agree?

Yet it makes sense to you to disadvantage and add costs to the law abiding? That's playing right into the leftist agenda. If they can't take your guns, they want to price them out of the citizens reach. Just look at the taxes and other crap blue states are coming up with. In NY City it takes about 6 months and 600 to a 1000 dollars just to get permission to have a hand gun in your home. Only the elite get concealed carry permits there.


.

Im wouldn't support measures like that... Like I said I own guns and don't think it should be hard or expensive to buy sell or use them as long as you are a law abiding citizen. NYC does have crazy tough laws on gun owners. As far as I understand that was a decision that city leadership and the voters made, which they have the right to do. I also recall NYC as being one of the most dangerous cities in the US a few decades ago and now it has made tremendous strides. I don't know if there is a correlation to the gun laws or if that was part of the program, but it is interesting.

Yep and it's backsliding since commiecrat administrations have been in power for a while. IL requires a Firearms Ownership License just to own a gun, how's that working for Chicago? The problem is not legal guns in flyover country. The problem is illegal guns and criminal activity in the regressive utopias, ie major cities, that's were most gun deaths occur.


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[Papageorgio]

If someone sells a gun illegally, they should lose their right to sell guns for the rest of their lives, they should forfeit all the guns they have, and they should lose their ability to own guns... on top of a fine. Putting them in jail isn't going change things but make it worse for the innocent people in their family.

If you lock up a husband and father you are punishing the whole family...

If they are selling guns illegally and you take away their right to sell guns legally, you have taken nothing away. They will still sell illegally and will still own guns illegally. You are in a sense saying, do nothing. You really think that will work?

You'd be amazed how many people change their direction in life when they are given a second chance. And I didn't just say to take away their rights to sell guns. I said to take away their right to OWN guns as well.

And they still will have illegal guns and still sell illegally. You are doing nothing. You'd be amazed how many are career criminals and should be punished. Sorry, you break the law, you pay the consequences. The illegal gun that you sold illegally kills 26 people, then you are culpable in the murder. Otherwise it is silly to have the laws at all.

And there are laws against murder, and people still murder people, so should we quit wasting money on arresting and imprisoning murderers? It's a ridiculous argument and you have NO IDEA how many of the people who lose their license to sell guns and one them will still do so illegally. And what does it matter if they do? They were breaking the law in the first place, so even if just ONE person that loses their license for selling a gun illegally stops because of the new law, that's better than doing absolutely nothing at all.

That isn’t what I’m saying, I’m saying take away their ability to sell or even have a gun on them by sending them to prison. You see no benefit to sending them to prison? I see no benefit from keeping them out. They broke a law and the gun they illegally sold is used in a murder? You bet they should be locked up and have the surviving family sue him. We are way to soft on crime.

 

[beagle9]

I read he bought the gun from a sports store. It seems they didn't run the background check -- or-- isn't there some law that if the results aren't back within 48 hours, they have to sell you the gun anyway?
Maybe he gave a fake name?
Who knows, but it wasn't an "illegal" street sale.

. Whatever happened, it needs to be scrutinized big time.

 

[westwall]

To people like this violent thug killer, Devin Patrick Kelley, that viciously murders multiple people in cold blood for no reason whatsoever?

Anyone who knowingly engages in criminal misuse of guns should go to prison.

 

[OKTexas]

Well when you come up with an effective way to regulate the criminal gun market, I'll be happy to discuss how the law abiding should be regulated. You might want to take a refresher course on the 14th amendment and the equal protection clause.


.

The far left does not care about the Constitution.

It is all about the narratives they can run, nothing else.

So far none on the far left has been able to provide any evidence to any existing laws that would have stopped many of these mass shooting!

And as you have already stated (and I will paraphrase): Gun laws only affect law abiding citizens!

Actually it appears the AF didn't enter this guys conviction for domestic violence in the NICS system, if they had he wouldn't have been able to buy the guns. It just shows how components of a law can fail and the ineligible will be allowed to buy guns. He went through the background checks.


.

Is this speculation or has it been confirmed officially?

He bought the AR from Academy Sporting Goods, they do background checks.


.

. So he passed the background check ? What kind of background check is required (a monopoly get out of jail free card)?

Same one that's required for any FFL to sell a firearm. The FBI NICS system.


.

 

[beagle9]

If someone sells a gun illegally, they should lose their right to sell guns for the rest of their lives, they should forfeit all the guns they have, and they should lose their ability to own guns... on top of a fine. Putting them in jail isn't going change things but make it worse for the innocent people in their family.

If you lock up a husband and father you are punishing the whole family...

If they are selling guns illegally and you take away their right to sell guns legally, you have taken nothing away. They will still sell illegally and will still own guns illegally. You are in a sense saying, do nothing. You really think that will work?

You'd be amazed how many people change their direction in life when they are given a second chance. And I didn't just say to take away their rights to sell guns. I said to take away their right to OWN guns as well.

And they still will have illegal guns and still sell illegally. You are doing nothing. You'd be amazed how many are career criminals and should be punished. Sorry, you break the law, you pay the consequences. The illegal gun that you sold illegally kills 26 people, then you are culpable in the murder. Otherwise it is silly to have the laws at all.

And there are laws against murder, and people still murder people, so should we quit wasting money on arresting and imprisoning murderers? It's a ridiculous argument and you have NO IDEA how many of the people who lose their license to sell guns and one them will still do so illegally. And what does it matter if they do? They were breaking the law in the first place, so even if just ONE person that loses their license for selling a gun illegally stops because of the new law, that's better than doing absolutely nothing at all.

That isn’t what I’m saying, I’m saying take away their ability to sell or even have a gun on them by sending them to prison. You see no benefit to sending them to prison? I see no benefit from keeping them out. They broke a law and the gun they illegally sold is used in a murder? You bet they should be locked up and have the surviving family sue him. We are way to soft on crime.

. Hmm, if the gun is sold in a manor that meets all requirements of the law, then the person should be released from any further responsibility in the matter. Any transfer of a weapon outside of the law, and a crime is committed with the weapon, and the weapon is tracked back to the former owner/holder of the weapon who transferred the weapon illegally, then jail time comes next.

 

[OKTexas]

And this is where we may differ but I don’t think a registry is such a bad idea. With the way tech is now a days it could be a quick and easy thing

So you have no problem being required to do something illegal owners can't be required to do. Registration won't be free, transfers won't be free, yet criminals can do anything they want and not spend a dime. I have a big problem with that.


.

Criminals can also steal a car and drive it without a license. That doesn’t mean we should make all cas free and stop issuing drivers licenses. Yes I realize there is a second amendment but I’m not talking about taking guns away I’m talking about the best ways to regulate for the safety of our public

Well when you come up with an effective way to regulate the criminal gun market, I'll be happy to discuss how the law abiding should be regulated. You might want to take a refresher course on the 14th amendment and the equal protection clause.


.

The far left does not care about the Constitution.

It is all about the narratives they can run, nothing else.

So far none on the far left has been able to provide any evidence to any existing laws that would have stopped many of these mass shooting!

And as you have already stated (and I will paraphrase): Gun laws only affect law abiding citizens!

This has nothing to do with the far left or the constitution , the conversation is about can we do anything about the selling of illegal guns.

Try enforcing the law.


.

 

[beagle9]

The far left does not care about the Constitution.

It is all about the narratives they can run, nothing else.

So far none on the far left has been able to provide any evidence to any existing laws that would have stopped many of these mass shooting!

And as you have already stated (and I will paraphrase): Gun laws only affect law abiding citizens!

Actually it appears the AF didn't enter this guys conviction for domestic violence in the NICS system, if they had he wouldn't have been able to buy the guns. It just shows how components of a law can fail and the ineligible will be allowed to buy guns. He went through the background checks.


.

Is this speculation or has it been confirmed officially?

He bought the AR from Academy Sporting Goods, they do background checks.


.

. So he passed the background check ? What kind of background check is required (a monopoly get out of jail free card)?

Same one that's required for any FFL to sell a firearm. The FBI NICS system.


.

. Should the process be reviewed ?

 

[Lewdog]

If someone sells a gun illegally, they should lose their right to sell guns for the rest of their lives, they should forfeit all the guns they have, and they should lose their ability to own guns... on top of a fine. Putting them in jail isn't going change things but make it worse for the innocent people in their family.

If you lock up a husband and father you are punishing the whole family...

If they are selling guns illegally and you take away their right to sell guns legally, you have taken nothing away. They will still sell illegally and will still own guns illegally. You are in a sense saying, do nothing. You really think that will work?

You'd be amazed how many people change their direction in life when they are given a second chance. And I didn't just say to take away their rights to sell guns. I said to take away their right to OWN guns as well.

And they still will have illegal guns and still sell illegally. You are doing nothing. You'd be amazed how many are career criminals and should be punished. Sorry, you break the law, you pay the consequences. The illegal gun that you sold illegally kills 26 people, then you are culpable in the murder. Otherwise it is silly to have the laws at all.

And there are laws against murder, and people still murder people, so should we quit wasting money on arresting and imprisoning murderers? It's a ridiculous argument and you have NO IDEA how many of the people who lose their license to sell guns and one them will still do so illegally. And what does it matter if they do? They were breaking the law in the first place, so even if just ONE person that loses their license for selling a gun illegally stops because of the new law, that's better than doing absolutely nothing at all.

That isn’t what I’m saying, I’m saying take away their ability to sell or even have a gun on them by sending them to prison. You see no benefit to sending them to prison? I see no benefit from keeping them out. They broke a law and the gun they illegally sold is used in a murder? You bet they should be locked up and have the surviving family sue him. We are way to soft on crime.

It's EXACTLY what you are saying. Why have or try to make a law if people aren't going to follow it. You just don't like it when your own faulty reasoning is thrown back in your face. I mean why do we have speed limits if people break it all the time? You more than likely break it, or have broken it several times. Fuck it, scrap it. It's useless. People are murdered every single day, yet murder is illegal. Fuck it, scrap it... let everyone go Wild West and do an eye for an eye and kill whomever we want. People steal all the time despite theft being illegal...

I can do this all day. Can you come up with a better argument?

 

[OKTexas]

I read he bought the gun from a sports store. It seems they didn't run the background check -- or-- isn't there some law that if the results aren't back within 48 hours, they have to sell you the gun anyway?
Maybe he gave a fake name?
Who knows, but it wasn't an "illegal" street sale.

He had to lie on the background check, it ask about restraining orders and DV convictions. As far as I'm concerned the USAF is the one that really dropped the ball on this one. Because they didn't report his conviction as DV.


.

 

[OldLady]

Well when you come up with an effective way to regulate the criminal gun market, I'll be happy to discuss how the law abiding should be regulated. You might want to take a refresher course on the 14th amendment and the equal protection clause.


.

The far left does not care about the Constitution.

It is all about the narratives they can run, nothing else.

So far none on the far left has been able to provide any evidence to any existing laws that would have stopped many of these mass shooting!

And as you have already stated (and I will paraphrase): Gun laws only affect law abiding citizens!

This has nothing to do with the far left or the constitution , the conversation is about can we do anything about the selling of illegal guns.

Says the far left drone!

The gun was not illegal and yes it is about the far left not being able to cite anything that would really help.

The Constitution is always in play no matter how much the far left just sees it as a GD piece of paper!

There is nothing in the constitution or amendments to the constitution about what we could/should do about illegal gun sales

See how the far left wants to paint this as an illegal gun sale, yet it was legal!

The Governor just said Kelley was denied a gun permit prior to purchasing the gun. Can you buy a gun without having a permit?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Send such a person to Syria with a one way ticket

What Should Happen To The Person/s That Sells Guns Illegally

 

[Kosh]

The far left does not care about the Constitution.

It is all about the narratives they can run, nothing else.

So far none on the far left has been able to provide any evidence to any existing laws that would have stopped many of these mass shooting!

And as you have already stated (and I will paraphrase): Gun laws only affect law abiding citizens!

This has nothing to do with the far left or the constitution , the conversation is about can we do anything about the selling of illegal guns.

Says the far left drone!

The gun was not illegal and yes it is about the far left not being able to cite anything that would really help.

The Constitution is always in play no matter how much the far left just sees it as a GD piece of paper!

There is nothing in the constitution or amendments to the constitution about what we could/should do about illegal gun sales

See how the far left wants to paint this as an illegal gun sale, yet it was legal!

The Governor just said Kelley was denied a gun permit prior to purchasing the gun. Can you buy a gun without having a permit?

Concealed carry permit is different than buying a gun.

 

[OldLady]

I read he bought the gun from a sports store. It seems they didn't run the background check -- or-- isn't there some law that if the results aren't back within 48 hours, they have to sell you the gun anyway?
Maybe he gave a fake name?
Who knows, but it wasn't an "illegal" street sale.

. Whatever happened, it needs to be scrutinized big time.

Yes. Not everyone with a DV charge goes on to commit mass murder, but assaulting an 11 month old and then the cruelty to animal charge--it's a pretty big red flag that this guy had real anger issues. At least I would want to look at it real hard before selling him a gun.

 

[OldLady]

This has nothing to do with the far left or the constitution , the conversation is about can we do anything about the selling of illegal guns.

Says the far left drone!

The gun was not illegal and yes it is about the far left not being able to cite anything that would really help.

The Constitution is always in play no matter how much the far left just sees it as a GD piece of paper!

There is nothing in the constitution or amendments to the constitution about what we could/should do about illegal gun sales

See how the far left wants to paint this as an illegal gun sale, yet it was legal!

The Governor just said Kelley was denied a gun permit prior to purchasing the gun. Can you buy a gun without having a permit?

Concealed carry permit is different than buying a gun.

I didn't specify CC permit. Or is that the only type you need to get in Texas?

 

[Kosh]

Says the far left drone!

The gun was not illegal and yes it is about the far left not being able to cite anything that would really help.

The Constitution is always in play no matter how much the far left just sees it as a GD piece of paper!

There is nothing in the constitution or amendments to the constitution about what we could/should do about illegal gun sales

See how the far left wants to paint this as an illegal gun sale, yet it was legal!

The Governor just said Kelley was denied a gun permit prior to purchasing the gun. Can you buy a gun without having a permit?

Concealed carry permit is different than buying a gun.

I didn't specify CC permit. Or is that the only type you need to get in Texas?

That is what you need in Texas to carry a concealed weapon.

But in many cases (pending the state) a speeding ticket can deny you a permit!

 

[Slade3200]

Criminals can also steal a car and drive it without a license. That doesn’t mean we should make all cas free and stop issuing drivers licenses. Yes I realize there is a second amendment but I’m not talking about taking guns away I’m talking about the best ways to regulate for the safety of our public

Well when you come up with an effective way to regulate the criminal gun market, I'll be happy to discuss how the law abiding should be regulated. You might want to take a refresher course on the 14th amendment and the equal protection clause.


.

I don’t think it’s possible to regulate a criminal market. That is a law enforcement issue, wouldn’t you agree?

Yet it makes sense to you to disadvantage and add costs to the law abiding? That's playing right into the leftist agenda. If they can't take your guns, they want to price them out of the citizens reach. Just look at the taxes and other crap blue states are coming up with. In NY City it takes about 6 months and 600 to a 1000 dollars just to get permission to have a hand gun in your home. Only the elite get concealed carry permits there.


.

Im wouldn't support measures like that... Like I said I own guns and don't think it should be hard or expensive to buy sell or use them as long as you are a law abiding citizen. NYC does have crazy tough laws on gun owners. As far as I understand that was a decision that city leadership and the voters made, which they have the right to do. I also recall NYC as being one of the most dangerous cities in the US a few decades ago and now it has made tremendous strides. I don't know if there is a correlation to the gun laws or if that was part of the program, but it is interesting.

Yep and it's backsliding since commiecrat administrations have been in power for a while. IL requires a Firearms Ownership License just to own a gun, how's that working for Chicago? The problem is not legal guns in flyover country. The problem is illegal guns and criminal activity in the regressive utopias, ie major cities, that's were most gun deaths occur.


.

I hear what you are saying but the violence in Chicago is a result of poverty and gangs, not a result of strict gun laws. Are you trying to imply that the strict gun laws are causing the violence to spike?

 

[OKTexas]

The far left does not care about the Constitution.

It is all about the narratives they can run, nothing else.

So far none on the far left has been able to provide any evidence to any existing laws that would have stopped many of these mass shooting!

And as you have already stated (and I will paraphrase): Gun laws only affect law abiding citizens!

This has nothing to do with the far left or the constitution , the conversation is about can we do anything about the selling of illegal guns.

Says the far left drone!

The gun was not illegal and yes it is about the far left not being able to cite anything that would really help.

The Constitution is always in play no matter how much the far left just sees it as a GD piece of paper!

There is nothing in the constitution or amendments to the constitution about what we could/should do about illegal gun sales

See how the far left wants to paint this as an illegal gun sale, yet it was legal!

The Governor just said Kelley was denied a gun permit prior to purchasing the gun. Can you buy a gun without having a permit?

Yep, a gun permit in TX is to carry concealed.


.