What the science says

[CrusaderFrank]

it cannot head back to a warmer area,

Why not? Tiny thermometers?

It's not random at all.

Smart photons? Which laws cover that?

The why of it is probably wrapped up in the creation of the Universe, that's just how it works.

If they don't experience time as we do, why do you suppose they need a thermometer?

that's just how it works.

Except, it doesn't. Heat isn't photons.
Photons don't care about temperature.

why do you suppose they need a thermometer?

They would need one, to see that a target was hotter and then decide not to go that way.
Instead of just using Stefan-Boltzmann, which says matter emits, based on its own temperature, not based on the temperature of the rest of the universe.

Yup, I agree.

Energy transfered by radiation is not heat. It is potential energy that may be transferred into kinetic energy via collisions of particles of matter.

So what is heat then?

I have found equally credible sources that say that heat is a form of energy in and of itself...and that heat is nothing more than the "fingerprint" left by energy moving from one place to another....it is clear that at this point, we don't really know...but people like Ian are quite sure that they already know and are perfectly willing to tell you all about it....

Heat, gravity, dark matter, dark energy - but don't worry, we KNOW everything.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The why of it is probably wrapped up in the creation of the Universe, that's just how it works.

If they don't experience time as we do, why do you suppose they need a thermometer?

that's just how it works.

Except, it doesn't. Heat isn't photons.
Photons don't care about temperature.

why do you suppose they need a thermometer?

They would need one, to see that a target was hotter and then decide not to go that way.
Instead of just using Stefan-Boltzmann, which says matter emits, based on its own temperature, not based on the temperature of the rest of the universe.

Yup, I agree.

Energy transfered by radiation is not heat. It is potential energy that may be transferred into kinetic energy via collisions of particles of matter.

So what is heat then?

I have found equally credible sources that say that heat is a form of energy in and of itself...and that heat is nothing more than the "fingerprint" left by energy moving from one place to another....it is clear that at this point, we don't really know...but people like Ian are quite sure that they already know and are perfectly willing to tell you all about it....

Heat, gravity, dark matter, dark energy - but don't worry, we KNOW everything.

Smart photons know everything, people, not so much.

 

[jc456]

that's just how it works.

Except, it doesn't. Heat isn't photons.
Photons don't care about temperature.

why do you suppose they need a thermometer?

They would need one, to see that a target was hotter and then decide not to go that way.
Instead of just using Stefan-Boltzmann, which says matter emits, based on its own temperature, not based on the temperature of the rest of the universe.

Yup, I agree.

Energy transfered by radiation is not heat. It is potential energy that may be transferred into kinetic energy via collisions of particles of matter.

So what is heat then?

I have found equally credible sources that say that heat is a form of energy in and of itself...and that heat is nothing more than the "fingerprint" left by energy moving from one place to another....it is clear that at this point, we don't really know...but people like Ian are quite sure that they already know and are perfectly willing to tell you all about it....

Heat, gravity, dark matter, dark energy - but don't worry, we KNOW everything.

Smart photons know everything, people, not so much.

well we definitely know people not so much is accurate. Photons? Now they behave the way they must behave.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yup, I agree.

Energy transfered by radiation is not heat. It is potential energy that may be transferred into kinetic energy via collisions of particles of matter.

So what is heat then?

I have found equally credible sources that say that heat is a form of energy in and of itself...and that heat is nothing more than the "fingerprint" left by energy moving from one place to another....it is clear that at this point, we don't really know...but people like Ian are quite sure that they already know and are perfectly willing to tell you all about it....

Heat, gravity, dark matter, dark energy - but don't worry, we KNOW everything.

Smart photons know everything, people, not so much.

well we definitely know people not so much is accurate. Photons? Now they behave the way they must behave.

Emitted in all directions, all the time, without regard to the temperature of their target.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

that's just how it works.

Except, it doesn't. Heat isn't photons.
Photons don't care about temperature.

why do you suppose they need a thermometer?

They would need one, to see that a target was hotter and then decide not to go that way.
Instead of just using Stefan-Boltzmann, which says matter emits, based on its own temperature, not based on the temperature of the rest of the universe.

Yup, I agree.

Energy transfered by radiation is not heat. It is potential energy that may be transferred into kinetic energy via collisions of particles of matter.

So what is heat then?

I have found equally credible sources that say that heat is a form of energy in and of itself...and that heat is nothing more than the "fingerprint" left by energy moving from one place to another....it is clear that at this point, we don't really know...but people like Ian are quite sure that they already know and are perfectly willing to tell you all about it....

Heat, gravity, dark matter, dark energy - but don't worry, we KNOW everything.

Smart photons know everything, people, not so much.

Following the rules makes you smart?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yup, I agree.

Energy transfered by radiation is not heat. It is potential energy that may be transferred into kinetic energy via collisions of particles of matter.

So what is heat then?

I have found equally credible sources that say that heat is a form of energy in and of itself...and that heat is nothing more than the "fingerprint" left by energy moving from one place to another....it is clear that at this point, we don't really know...but people like Ian are quite sure that they already know and are perfectly willing to tell you all about it....

Heat, gravity, dark matter, dark energy - but don't worry, we KNOW everything.

Smart photons know everything, people, not so much.

Following the rules makes you smart?

Which rule says photons can measure the temperature of all the matter in the Universe?

 

[SSDD]

So what is heat then?

I have found equally credible sources that say that heat is a form of energy in and of itself...and that heat is nothing more than the "fingerprint" left by energy moving from one place to another....it is clear that at this point, we don't really know...but people like Ian are quite sure that they already know and are perfectly willing to tell you all about it....

Heat, gravity, dark matter, dark energy - but don't worry, we KNOW everything.

Smart photons know everything, people, not so much.

Following the rules makes you smart?

Which rule says photons can measure the temperature of all the matter in the Universe?

The one that says that from a photon's point of view, the distance to anywhere in the universe is zero...and the time it takes to get there is zero...photons don't need to "know" where a cooler region is any more than energy conducting through a solid material needs to know...

 

[westwall]

Sid, you're about to step into a busy street... or, you're out in left field watching the ball rise from the bat... or you're in your car waiting to take a left turn... or you've tasted your wife's spaghetti and are now holding a salt shaker above it... or you've come across a strange dog on your morning walk and have to cross paths with it...

These are all instances in which we model reality in order to make the best judgement we can about what WILL happen. The mantra you all spout about models is based solely on the fact that they consistently show you what you don't want to see.

Huge difference between OBSERVED data, and a computer model. The computer model could come up with the scenario that says, "it's OK to cross the street between 04:50 and 05:30" but on the ground you see dozens of large construction trucks coming down the road. How are you going to judge whether it's safe to cross? The computer model, or the trucks you can SEE?

 

[SSDD]

[Huge difference between OBSERVED data, and a computer model. The computer model could come up with the scenario that says, "it's OK to cross the street between 04:50 and 05:30" but on the ground you see dozens of large construction trucks coming down the road. How are you going to judge whether it's safe to cross? The computer model, or the trucks you can SEE?

Since he is unable to actually think for himself, he will be compelled to accept the computer model without regard for its ability to accurately represent reality.

 

[jc456]

So what is heat then?

I have found equally credible sources that say that heat is a form of energy in and of itself...and that heat is nothing more than the "fingerprint" left by energy moving from one place to another....it is clear that at this point, we don't really know...but people like Ian are quite sure that they already know and are perfectly willing to tell you all about it....

Heat, gravity, dark matter, dark energy - but don't worry, we KNOW everything.

Smart photons know everything, people, not so much.

well we definitely know people not so much is accurate. Photons? Now they behave the way they must behave.

Emitted in all directions, all the time, without regard to the temperature of their target.

what's emitting and where is it emitting from?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I have found equally credible sources that say that heat is a form of energy in and of itself...and that heat is nothing more than the "fingerprint" left by energy moving from one place to another....it is clear that at this point, we don't really know...but people like Ian are quite sure that they already know and are perfectly willing to tell you all about it....

Heat, gravity, dark matter, dark energy - but don't worry, we KNOW everything.

Smart photons know everything, people, not so much.

Following the rules makes you smart?

Which rule says photons can measure the temperature of all the matter in the Universe?

The one that says that from a photon's point of view, the distance to anywhere in the universe is zero...and the time it takes to get there is zero...photons don't need to "know" where a cooler region is any more than energy conducting through a solid material needs to know...

The one that says that from a photon's point of view, the distance to anywhere in the universe is zero

The distance may be zero, doesn't mean they can predict the temperature, everywhere, not to mention knowing where everything will be at every point in the future.

Which laws of physics back up your claim that they can?

Are photons God? Because knowing that much would pretty much take God.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I have found equally credible sources that say that heat is a form of energy in and of itself...and that heat is nothing more than the "fingerprint" left by energy moving from one place to another....it is clear that at this point, we don't really know...but people like Ian are quite sure that they already know and are perfectly willing to tell you all about it....

Heat, gravity, dark matter, dark energy - but don't worry, we KNOW everything.

Smart photons know everything, people, not so much.

well we definitely know people not so much is accurate. Photons? Now they behave the way they must behave.

Emitted in all directions, all the time, without regard to the temperature of their target.

what's emitting and where is it emitting from?

Photons are being emitted. From all matter above 0K.
All the time. In all directions. Whether warmer matter is near or far or not.

 

[IanC]

SSDD is simply dragging us into deep water.

Radiation is the simplest type of energy transfer to understand but even then we are making simplifying assumptions.

The most basic form of radiation comes from an atom that has extra energy so that an electron is in a higher orbital. When the electron jumps down to ground state a photon is given off in a random direction. High school science.

Next is molecular collisions. The electron shells are deformed in the collision, turning kinetic energy into potential energy. When the molecules separate and return to their regular state some of the stored energy is given off as blackbody radiation, and/or an electron is moved to a higher state which can then lead to the above first case. Even the opposite can happen. An excited molecule can lose its extra energy in a collision and turn it into kinetic energy.


There are no tags on molecules that define it's kinetic energy (temperature). Molecules are constantly changing speed with every collision. Air at a certain temperature (average speed) has molecules moving both faster and slower than the average. There is no way to tell the temperature from one individual molecule.


Even if SSDD was right (he's not) about photons refusing to move from a slower molecule to a faster molecule (absurd), there would still be a lot of radiation passing from the (higher than average) cool to the (lower than average) warm.


Conduction in condensed matter is tremendously more complex and I wont even try to explain.

 

[jc456]

Heat, gravity, dark matter, dark energy - but don't worry, we KNOW everything.

Smart photons know everything, people, not so much.

well we definitely know people not so much is accurate. Photons? Now they behave the way they must behave.

Emitted in all directions, all the time, without regard to the temperature of their target.

what's emitting and where is it emitting from?

Photons are being emitted. From all matter above 0K.
All the time. In all directions. Whether warmer matter is near or far or not.

In all directions based off of what?

Why does heat rise?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Smart photons know everything, people, not so much.

well we definitely know people not so much is accurate. Photons? Now they behave the way they must behave.

Emitted in all directions, all the time, without regard to the temperature of their target.

what's emitting and where is it emitting from?

Photons are being emitted. From all matter above 0K.
All the time. In all directions. Whether warmer matter is near or far or not.

In all directions based off of what?

Why does heat rise?

In all directions based off of what?

Based off of photons moving in all directions.

Why does heat rise?

Define heat.

 

[jc456]

well we definitely know people not so much is accurate. Photons? Now they behave the way they must behave.

Emitted in all directions, all the time, without regard to the temperature of their target.

what's emitting and where is it emitting from?

Photons are being emitted. From all matter above 0K.
All the time. In all directions. Whether warmer matter is near or far or not.

In all directions based off of what?

Why does heat rise?

In all directions based off of what?

Based off of photons moving in all directions.

Why does heat rise?

Define heat.

I did that already. if you lit a match and held it in your hand which direction does the heat go?

Why are heat detectors in ceilings?

photons

Based off what?

 

[IanC]

Smart photons know everything, people, not so much.

well we definitely know people not so much is accurate. Photons? Now they behave the way they must behave.

Emitted in all directions, all the time, without regard to the temperature of their target.

what's emitting and where is it emitting from?

Photons are being emitted. From all matter above 0K.
All the time. In all directions. Whether warmer matter is near or far or not.

In all directions based off of what?

Why does heat rise?

All directions based on observation. And theory. Do you have some reason that certain directions would be prohibited? Actual mechanisms not just opinion.

Heat rises, that is an imprecise statement. Warm air rises because it is less dense, weighs less, and therefore gravity pulls cooler, heavier air down to replace it.

 

[jc456]

well we definitely know people not so much is accurate. Photons? Now they behave the way they must behave.

Emitted in all directions, all the time, without regard to the temperature of their target.

what's emitting and where is it emitting from?

Photons are being emitted. From all matter above 0K.
All the time. In all directions. Whether warmer matter is near or far or not.

In all directions based off of what?

Why does heat rise?

All directions based on observation. And theory. Do you have some reason that certain directions would be prohibited? Actual mechanisms not just opinion.

Heat rises, that is an imprecise statement. Warm air rises because it is less dense, weighs less, and therefore gravity pulls cooler, heavier air down to replace it.

All directions based on observation.

got a link?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Emitted in all directions, all the time, without regard to the temperature of their target.

what's emitting and where is it emitting from?

Photons are being emitted. From all matter above 0K.
All the time. In all directions. Whether warmer matter is near or far or not.

In all directions based off of what?

Why does heat rise?

In all directions based off of what?

Based off of photons moving in all directions.

Why does heat rise?

Define heat.

I did that already. if you lit a match and held it in your hand which direction does the heat go?

Why are heat detectors in ceilings?

photons

Based off what?

I did that already.

Do it again. Try to be precise.

if you lit a match and held it in your hand which direction does the heat go?

IR from the flame would travel in all directions.

Why are heat detectors in ceilings?

Because fires are bad.

 

[jc456]

what's emitting and where is it emitting from?

Photons are being emitted. From all matter above 0K.
All the time. In all directions. Whether warmer matter is near or far or not.

In all directions based off of what?

Why does heat rise?

In all directions based off of what?

Based off of photons moving in all directions.

Why does heat rise?

Define heat.

I did that already. if you lit a match and held it in your hand which direction does the heat go?

Why are heat detectors in ceilings?

photons

Based off what?

I did that already.

Do it again. Try to be precise.

if you lit a match and held it in your hand which direction does the heat go?

IR from the flame would travel in all directions.

Why are heat detectors in ceilings?

Because fires are bad.

there you go saying IR is heat again. I thought you stated it wasn't. heat goes to cool so it only goes that direction.