Where do moral laws come from?

[ding]

To be honest....God does not do a good job with morality

And our society exhibits higher morality than our religious zealots

That must be why you won't answer this question.

Do you believe that behaviors like humility, forgiveness and thankfulness lead to better outcomes than arrogance, vindictiveness and thanklessness?

 

[rightwinger]

To be honest....God does not do a good job with morality

And our society exhibits higher morality than our religious zealots

That must be why you won't answer this question.

Do you believe that behaviors like humility, forgiveness and thankfulness lead to better outcomes than arrogance, vindictiveness and thanklessness?

Why of course

A smile is more powerful than a frown

Has nothing to do with God

 

[ding]

To be honest....God does not do a good job with morality

And our society exhibits higher morality than our religious zealots

What did you find funny about post #300, Boris?

 

[ding]

To be honest....God does not do a good job with morality

And our society exhibits higher morality than our religious zealots

That must be why you won't answer this question.

Do you believe that behaviors like humility, forgiveness and thankfulness lead to better outcomes than arrogance, vindictiveness and thanklessness?

Why of course

A smile is more powerful than a frown

Has nothing to do with God

But it does have to do with universal moral laws. Should I keep going down the list?

I'll get to God later. It seems that people like yourself must be dragged kicking and screaming just to admit self evident truths that there are successful behaviors and failed behaviors.

 

[rightwinger]

To be honest....God does not do a good job with morality

And our society exhibits higher morality than our religious zealots

What did you find funny about post #300, Boris?

Appeal to authority as a substitute for reasoned argument

But....but.......George Washington says God is real

 

[rightwinger]

To be honest....God does not do a good job with morality

And our society exhibits higher morality than our religious zealots

That must be why you won't answer this question.

Do you believe that behaviors like humility, forgiveness and thankfulness lead to better outcomes than arrogance, vindictiveness and thanklessness?

Why of course

A smile is more powerful than a frown

Has nothing to do with God

But it does have to do with universal moral laws. Should I keep going down the list?

I'll get to God later. It seems that people like yourself must be dragged kicking and screaming just to admit self evident truths that there are successful behaviors and failed behaviors.

I already agree

And those behaviors are encouraged by society......not some magic man in the sky

 

[ding]

To be honest....God does not do a good job with morality

And our society exhibits higher morality than our religious zealots

What did you find funny about post #300, Boris?

Appeal to authority as a substitute for reasoned argument

But....but.......George Washington says God is real

Anyone who scoffs at accepting knowledge on authority would have to go around knowing next to nothing his whole life which does explain a lot about you.

 

[ding]

To be honest....God does not do a good job with morality

And our society exhibits higher morality than our religious zealots

That must be why you won't answer this question.

Do you believe that behaviors like humility, forgiveness and thankfulness lead to better outcomes than arrogance, vindictiveness and thanklessness?

Why of course

A smile is more powerful than a frown

Has nothing to do with God

But it does have to do with universal moral laws. Should I keep going down the list?

I'll get to God later. It seems that people like yourself must be dragged kicking and screaming just to admit self evident truths that there are successful behaviors and failed behaviors.

I already agree

And those behaviors are encouraged by society......not some magic man in the sky

So then you do agree there are universal behaviors which lead naturally to success and universal behaviors which naturally lead to failure, right?

 

[MaryL]

Were do ANY laws come from? Were do human rights come from? When I see little old white ladies stomped into the dirt by black kids , people pandering to illegal aliens creating artificial sanctuary cities for profit above culture, I have to wonder, JUST HOW CYNICAL can you get?

 

[ding]

Were do ANY laws come from? Were do human rights come from? When I see little old white ladies stomped into the dirt by black kids , people pandering to illegal aliens creating artificial sanctuary cities for profit above culture, I have to wonder, JUST HOW CYNICAL can you get?

I think you can be very cynical. You are no where close to reaching the limits of your cynicism. I on the other hand prefer to think rather than feel. Sure there is a time and place for feeling but problem solving isn't that place. Where do you human rights come from? Our Founding Fathers had a pretty good idea that they came from God for no other reason than we are His creatures and that for this reason they were inalienable.

What you seem to be having trouble with is the concept that people breaking universal laws must mean there are no universal laws. I don't even know where to begin to address this kind of crazy but we can start with the fact that we have secular laws and people still break them so just because laws exist and people still violate them that does not negate the law. In fact, it validates the law because we would not need laws if people did not do stupid ass shit. Do you follow me, sister?

Some idiots will throw the baby out with the dirty bathwater. Intelligent people just drain the dirty bathwater and keep the baby.

 

[Iceweasel]

Our morality comes from man

We don't need a magic man in the sky to make them for us

What we don't need are social fart stains mocking God.

Gods a big boy.......he can take it

<I don't have to worry about him killing my first born son, do I?>

Absolutely, that isn't why men of good will should care. Men of good will should care because freedom and liberty rest upon the pillars of virtue and freedom and shit stains want to destroy freedom and liberty.

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

At the risk of some idiot insulting our Founding Fathers again, let's look at what good ole George Washington had to say about morality and religion, shall we?

George Washington
Farewell Address, Sept 17, 1796

“…And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion...reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.”

The Will of the People: Readings in American Democracy (Chicago: Great Books Foundation, 2001), 38.

Explain how that proves morality existed before man. And no one insulted the founders but you are here insulting our intelligence. It's ironic that someone as dishonest as you would try to preach morality.

What is the moral high ground for the age of consent? You haven't answered that yet.

 

[Iceweasel]

Were do ANY laws come from? Were do human rights come from? When I see little old white ladies stomped into the dirt by black kids , people pandering to illegal aliens creating artificial sanctuary cities for profit above culture, I have to wonder, JUST HOW CYNICAL can you get?

I think you can be very cynical. You are no where close to reaching the limits of your cynicism. I on the other hand prefer to think rather than feel. Sure there is a time and place for feeling but problem solving isn't that place. Where do you human rights come from? Our Founding Fathers had a pretty good idea that they came from God for no other reason than we are His creatures and that for this reason they were inalienable.

What you seem to be having trouble with is the concept that people breaking universal laws must mean there are no universal laws. I don't even know where to begin to address this kind of crazy but we can start with the fact that we have secular laws and people still break them so just because laws exist and people still violate them that does not negate the law. In fact, it validates the law because we would not need laws if people did not do stupid ass shit. Do you follow me, sister?

Some idiots will throw the baby out with the dirty bathwater. Intelligent people just drain the dirty bathwater and keep the baby.

You asserted that these universal laws exist and can only back that up with an argument by authority while ignoring questions you can't answer. You have now shifted to hiding behind the coat tails of the founders for an emotional plea.

That's not exactly intelligent, it would turn off anyone with a healthy mind.

 

[ding]

What we don't need are social fart stains mocking God.

Gods a big boy.......he can take it

<I don't have to worry about him killing my first born son, do I?>

Absolutely, that isn't why men of good will should care. Men of good will should care because freedom and liberty rest upon the pillars of virtue and freedom and shit stains want to destroy freedom and liberty.

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

At the risk of some idiot insulting our Founding Fathers again, let's look at what good ole George Washington had to say about morality and religion, shall we?

George Washington
Farewell Address, Sept 17, 1796

“…And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion...reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.”

The Will of the People: Readings in American Democracy (Chicago: Great Books Foundation, 2001), 38.

Explain how that proves morality existed before man. And no one insulted the founders but you are here insulting our intelligence. It's ironic that someone as dishonest as you would try to preach morality.

What is the moral high ground for the age of consent? You haven't answered that yet.

Science tells us that the physical laws of nature existed before space and time existed. Likewise moral laws would have also existed for the same reason. All laws of nature were in place before space and time. Science, music, mathematics and the laws of nature were waiting in eternity to be discovered. Everything which has happened since space and time were created has happened because of the laws of nature. In effect everything which exists has been pre-ordained.

The highest standard for the age of consent is that there is not one age but a right age for each young adult. This would apply for two young adults of the approximate same age. If that is not good enough for you, then use 18. There will never be a right age of consent for a full grown adult to take advantage of a young adult. But if that is not good enough for you then use 21.

Men know right from wrong. You cannot write enough laws to capture right and wrong. You should not even try because then you will get assholes like you who will never hold themselves to a higher standard. This is called legal positivism and leads to the kind of society we have today. So instead of people erring on the side of right with their conduct, they do as you do and only follow the letter of the law which will always have loopholes and inconsistencies.

 

[ding]

Were do ANY laws come from? Were do human rights come from? When I see little old white ladies stomped into the dirt by black kids , people pandering to illegal aliens creating artificial sanctuary cities for profit above culture, I have to wonder, JUST HOW CYNICAL can you get?

I think you can be very cynical. You are no where close to reaching the limits of your cynicism. I on the other hand prefer to think rather than feel. Sure there is a time and place for feeling but problem solving isn't that place. Where do you human rights come from? Our Founding Fathers had a pretty good idea that they came from God for no other reason than we are His creatures and that for this reason they were inalienable.

What you seem to be having trouble with is the concept that people breaking universal laws must mean there are no universal laws. I don't even know where to begin to address this kind of crazy but we can start with the fact that we have secular laws and people still break them so just because laws exist and people still violate them that does not negate the law. In fact, it validates the law because we would not need laws if people did not do stupid ass shit. Do you follow me, sister?

Some idiots will throw the baby out with the dirty bathwater. Intelligent people just drain the dirty bathwater and keep the baby.

You asserted that these universal laws exist and can only back that up with an argument by authority while ignoring questions you can't answer. You have now shifted to hiding behind the coat tails of the founders for an emotional plea.

That's not exactly intelligent, it would turn off anyone with a healthy mind.

I'm pretty happy with how this conversation has gone. You are free to see it anyway you want.

 

[rightwinger]

Science tells us that the physical laws of nature existed before space and time existed. Likewise moral laws would have also existed for the same reason

Logical fail

 

[Boss]

Science tells us that the physical laws of nature existed before space and time existed.

Pfft! Science tells us no such thing!

You're not even listening to what you're saying here. How can the "laws" of something exist before the thing the laws apply to exists? It's illogical.

Now, you can certainly have an illogical opinion. But please don't try to claim that Science supports your illogical opinion. That's offensive to those who respect the integrity of Science.

 

[Iceweasel]

What is the moral high ground for the age of consent? You haven't answered that yet.

Science tells us that the physical laws of nature existed before space and time existed. Likewise moral laws would have also existed for the same reason. All laws of nature were in place before space and time. Science, music, mathematics and the laws of nature were waiting in eternity to be discovered. Everything which has happened since space and time were created has happened because of the laws of nature. In effect everything which exists has been pre-ordained.

The highest standard for the age of consent is that there is not one age but a right age for each young adult. This would apply for two young adults of the approximate same age. If that is not good enough for you, then use 18. There will never be a right age of consent for a full grown adult to take advantage of a young adult. But if that is not good enough for you then use 21.

Men know right from wrong. You cannot write enough laws to capture right and wrong. You should not even try because then you will get assholes like you who will never hold themselves to a higher standard. This is called legal positivism and leads to the kind of society we have today. So instead of people erring on the side of right with their conduct, they do as you do and only follow the letter of the law which will always have loopholes and inconsistencies.

Science says no such thing. Science can only study the observable universe. Theories abound but don't become facts until they can be tested.

How you leap from the unprovable to the provable and then throw morality into the mix for good measure is not the workings of a lucid mind.

I'm not the one trying to determine laws for everyone else, don't try to make it my problem. You claim 18 is the moral age of consent but that's not the case in most places so where does your standard come from. How are you right and everybody else wrong?

And how do you know I never hold myself to a higher standard? Odd insult coming from someone that professes to have special insights to morality.

 

[Iceweasel]

Were do ANY laws come from? Were do human rights come from? When I see little old white ladies stomped into the dirt by black kids , people pandering to illegal aliens creating artificial sanctuary cities for profit above culture, I have to wonder, JUST HOW CYNICAL can you get?

I think you can be very cynical. You are no where close to reaching the limits of your cynicism. I on the other hand prefer to think rather than feel. Sure there is a time and place for feeling but problem solving isn't that place. Where do you human rights come from? Our Founding Fathers had a pretty good idea that they came from God for no other reason than we are His creatures and that for this reason they were inalienable.

What you seem to be having trouble with is the concept that people breaking universal laws must mean there are no universal laws. I don't even know where to begin to address this kind of crazy but we can start with the fact that we have secular laws and people still break them so just because laws exist and people still violate them that does not negate the law. In fact, it validates the law because we would not need laws if people did not do stupid ass shit. Do you follow me, sister?

Some idiots will throw the baby out with the dirty bathwater. Intelligent people just drain the dirty bathwater and keep the baby.

You asserted that these universal laws exist and can only back that up with an argument by authority while ignoring questions you can't answer. You have now shifted to hiding behind the coat tails of the founders for an emotional plea.

That's not exactly intelligent, it would turn off anyone with a healthy mind.

I'm pretty happy with how this conversation has gone. You are free to see it anyway you want.

Wow, you've blessed me with permission to use my own mind? That's very generous of you. I'll just note you avoided the points and took the smug route, as usual.

 

[Boss]

The highest standard for the age of consent is that there is not one age but a right age for each young adult. This would apply for two young adults of the approximate same age. If that is not good enough for you, then use 18. There will never be a right age of consent for a full grown adult to take advantage of a young adult. But if that is not good enough for you then use 21.

Why not 25?

Why does age have to be approximately the same?

What is a "full grown" adult? (humans grow until they die)

All you have done here is list out your edicts based on your moral views. There is no evidence submitted to support any claim you've made here. These are simply arbitrary limits you've set up based on your own opinion and viewpoint. How are we to believe that you are the one person out of billions on the planet who somehow knows the true moral age of consent? What made your opinion on this so special?

 

[ding]

The highest standard for the age of consent is that there is not one age but a right age for each young adult. This would apply for two young adults of the approximate same age. If that is not good enough for you, then use 18. There will never be a right age of consent for a full grown adult to take advantage of a young adult. But if that is not good enough for you then use 21.

Why not 25?

Why does age have to be approximately the same?

What is a "full grown" adult? (humans grow until they die)

All you have done here is list out your edicts based on your moral views. There is no evidence submitted to support any claim you've made here. These are simply arbitrary limits you've set up based on your own opinion and viewpoint. How are we to believe that you are the one person out of billions on the planet who somehow knows the true moral age of consent? What made your opinion on this so special?

Why not 30? That is the problem with trying to codify morals. There is nothing special about my opinion, boss. Are you seriously telling me that you don't know when you are doing wrong? Are you telling me that you need for society to tell you how to behave. If you are 35 and you are taking advantage of a 16 year old, which society says is ok, do you really believe that is ok?

Open your eyes to what I am trying to say and stop being so argumentative just for arguments sake. You aren't helping anyone by arguing against what is good and just.