Zone1 Where does it say in the Bible only adults can be baptized?

[Meriweather]

I never said that children don't need God's grace. I've lost count of how many times I have clearly stated that children SHOULD be brought to God, and taught the ways of God, and how to pray, etc.

I know what you said and I accept what you said. You teach children about God, but you stop at Baptism and wait for them to make their own decision about salvation. That's fine, that's how some see salvation. All I am pointing out is that Catholics see it differently. I am not saying one is right and one is wrong...but you seem to be saying that. I am saying the Holy Spirit can work with both.

I am saying that Catholic teaching is the Holy Spirit and God's grace are especially present in Baptism. For those who believe salvation is a process (the Way of Salvation) not a one-time event, baptism of infants is logical.

For those who believe salvation is a one-time event, or once saved always saved, it is logical to wait until adulthood. I understand you believe the scriptures you select lean toward salvation being a one-time event. I don't believe they lean that way at all--sometimes they are even talking about something entirely different from salvation. Doesn't matter. You still believe salvation is a one-time event and that your children will have this event when they are ready. That is your choice. It's not that I think it is wrong, I simply know it is not my choice, based on scripture as I understand them and based on my own experiences.

 

[Meriweather]

And also, fork said something about infant baptism "washing away" original sin, or something like that. I'm paraphrasing.

Catholics see Original Sin as the propensity of humans to choose disobedience. I have heard the description of washing away Original Sin. I've also been taught (and I prefer this) as describing baptism as turning from disobedience (worldly ways) to obedience (God's ways). Either way the way/sin of Adam and Eve is rejected and the way/obedience of Christ is undertaken/embraced.

 

[buttercup]

Unkotare, grow up.

I can't believe you're a school teacher. You've been acting like a 14 year old with your incessant trolling and nastiness, as opposed to ever engaging in an actual discussion or debate.

But anyway, thanks for the reaction points!

 

[irosie91]

I am glad to know that buttercup is a school teacher

 

[frigidweirdo]

It doesn't. I have read the Bible. I know it's a shock to hear a Catholic say that, but it's a true story. I've actually read or heard it over and over because the Catholic Church gives us scripture every day, not just on Sunday.

Anyhow, it does not say in the Bible you can't baptize infants and it is inferred that infants were indeed baptized. In Acts, it says "whole households" were baptized. Most households had infants and/or children.

Jesus said to let the children come to Him.

etc

Does it matter? Just do what you want to do. You want to dunk your head in water, do it. Doesn't change anything, does it?

 

[buttercup]

I know what you said and I accept what you said. You teach children about God, but you stop at Baptism and wait for them to make their own decision about salvation. That's fine, that's how some see salvation. All I am pointing out is that Catholics see it differently. I am not saying one is right and one is wrong...but you seem to be saying that. I am saying the Holy Spirit can work with both.

I am saying that Catholic teaching is the Holy Spirit and God's grace are especially present in Baptism. For those who believe salvation is a process (the Way of Salvation) not a one-time event, baptism of infants is logical.

For those who believe salvation is a one-time event, or once saved always saved, it is logical to wait until adulthood. I understand you believe the scriptures you select lean toward salvation being a one-time event. I don't believe they lean that way at all--sometimes they are even talking about something entirely different from salvation. Doesn't matter. You still believe salvation is a one-time event and that your children will have this event when they are ready. That is your choice. It's not that I think it is wrong, I simply know it is not my choice, based on scripture as I understand them and based on my own experiences.

I know Catholics see it differently, that's what I said earlier. But with a topic as important as salvation, which has eternal consequences... I don't think it's something anyone should take lightly or think of as a matter of mere opinion. It's not a matter of opinion, there is an actual truth. And as the law of non-contradiction states, two contradictory truths cannot both be right at the same time.

In response to your last paragraph.... My view is that justification is a one-time event. Some people use the words justification and salvation interchangeably. But salvation overall is about more than justification. It also includes sanctification and glorification.

This article explains it, and I'll post an excerpt:

First, we should remember what these words mean. Here are some definitions:

• Justification is “an act of God whereby He pronounces a sinner to be righteous because of that sinner’s faith in Christ.” We are justified, or declared righteous, at the moment of our salvation.

• Sanctification is “the process by which Christians are set apart for God from the rest of the world, or the process by which Christians are made holy.” Progressive, or experiential, sanctification, as it is sometimes called, is the effect of obedience to the Word of God in one’s life. It is the same as growing in the Lord (2 Peter 3:18) or spiritual maturity.

• Glorification is “God’s final removal of sin from the life of the saints so that they stand faultless before Him in glory in eternity” (Romans 8:18; 2 Corinthians 4:17). At Christ’s coming, the glory of God (Romans 5:2)—His honor, praise, majesty, and holiness—will be realized in us; we will have direct and unhindered access to God’s presence, and we will enjoy holy communion with Him throughout eternity.

How are justification, sanctification, and glorification related? | GotQuestions.org

How are justification, sanctification, and glorification related? What are the connections between justification, sanctification, and glorification?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Unkotare]

...It's not a matter of opinion, there is an actual truth. And as the law of non-contradiction states, two contradictory truths cannot both be right at the same time.
...

"I have to win! That's what faith is all about! I win! I win!"

 

[buttercup]

Catholics see Original Sin as the propensity of humans to choose disobedience. I have heard the description of washing away Original Sin. I've also been taught (and I prefer this) as describing baptism as turning from disobedience (worldly ways) to obedience (God's ways). Either way the way/sin of Adam and Eve is rejected and the way/obedience of Christ is undertaken/embraced.

Ok, if you see baptism as turning from disobedience, how can a baby do that? A baby can do that many years later, when they are no longer a baby and learn (through life experience) that obedience to God is key. But can an infant understand the concept of obedience... or salvation?

Honestly, I don't want to keep pressing the point. But you did share your view on it, so it is hard to not ask you that question.

 

[irosie91]

Does it matter? Just do what you want to do. You want to dunk your head in water, do it. Doesn't change anything, does it?

PS whole households back then may not have included children. ---children--girls under the age of 12.5 and boys under the age of 13

 

[irosie91]

Ok, if you see baptism as turning from disobedience, how can a baby do that? A baby can do that many years later, when they are no longer a baby and learn (through life experience) that obedience to God is key. But can an infant understand the concept of obedience... or salvation?

Honestly, I don't want to keep pressing the point. But you did share your view on it, so it is hard to not ask you that question.

I like the parties

 

[Unkotare]

...

Honestly, I don't want to keep pressing the point. ...

Yeah you do. Don't lie.

 

[irosie91]

Yeah you do. Don't lie.

it's a nice family get together and mom gets to dress the baby up

 

[buttercup]

Yeah you do. Don't lie.

Your trolling is tiresome, as is your following me around to be nasty. I've been having a fairly civil discussion with Meriweather (you could learn from her) so unless you start to discuss the actual topic in a Zone 1 way, all you're doing here is making yourself look like a 14 year old troll. * yawn *

 

[buttercup]

I like the parties

Yeah, I get that it can be a nice social event. I have relatives who baptize their babies and everyone gets all dressed up and all that.