Which should have first priority: The woman, the fertilized egg, or the fetus?

[Sun Devil 92]

Now that Kennedy has announced his retirement - we must fight hard to protect Roe v. Wade from being overturned by a radical right-wing SCOTUS.

Anthony Kennedy Announces Retirement From The Supreme Court

Unfortunately, I fear that there will be a serious attack on Americans' rights. We will end up with "free states" and "slave states" once again, the destruction of religious freedom, the establishment of a theocracy run by the worst among us, and a great big backlash.

You really going to be hooked into this bullshit.

Roe is meaningless and you'll be able to all the abortions you want.

How is it that you people think this country can fall apart over one SCOTUS nominee.

The ensuing risk of loss of Americans' rights. As I said, a pattern of "free states" and "slave states" will emerge. Once the government takes over a person's rights to control her/his own body and establishes a state religion to which all of us are compelled to adhere, what else will be destroyed next.

What ensuing risk of what rights.

The 10th amendment allows for differences in states.

46 states had laws against abortion but people were still killing off fetuses at the rate of a million a year.

There were no slave states then.

You guys have to get a better argument than this.

No state has a right to violate a right held by an individual pursuant to the U.S. Constitution. One's body is not the property of the state. One's choice of religion, if any, is not to be encroached upon by the state. One's right to privacy is not to be encroached upon by the state.

All of these rights are being threatened, and, thus liberty is being threatened.

Nazism and theocratic dictatorship should not be allowed to take hold in our nation.

We've already discussed this on other boards.

States were making abortion laws prior to 1973 and will continue to do so if Roe is repealed.

There is no such thing as a right to an abortion.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

TOOBIN: ABORTION BANS IN ‘20 STATES’ IN 18 MONTHS

It's getting serious. Really serious.

You are getting even more stupid.

Really really stupid.

Toobin knows better.

Live in Kansas...can't get an abortion ? Go to Colorado where it will be legal.

Most "Bans" will have all kinds of outs.

There were a million abortions before Roe.......

Moron.

Dear Marie Antoinette: How many people have the means to travel to a free state if they live in a slave state to have a safe procedure instead of a back-alley botch job? You are being highly unrealistic. Look at what the Irish were forced to do, travel to England at a cost many could not afford. "Let them eat cake" doesn't cut it.

Dear Saul Alinsky.

Bullshit.

The myth of the back alley job is alive and well in the minds of
the frantic left.

There were a million abortions before Roe and that number hardly changed afterwards.

Keep it up Saul.

It's no myth, moron. You cannot ignore history. You are just trying to shove your religion down other Americans' throats and up our genitals. The state has no legitimate interest in citizens' personal lives. We women are not second class citizens, regardless of what sicko ideas some of you have.

You are the one ignoring history as it was spelled out to you before.

Like a true left winger....you pretend to represent the intentions of others.

You don't. So why don't you take that part of your rant and shove it up your ass.

Nobody called women second class citizens. It's obvious you have been called one and the way you post...it's no wonder.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Life begins at conception. If it begins it was God's will...and so the fertilized egg has first priority. If woman does not want the child...put it up for adoption.

Rape is God's will?

Your God. Not mine.

Yes, your god ===> federal government.

It's what feeds you and keeps you safe from the boogeyman.

 

[Rosy]

This is a sincere poll. I would appreciate honest answers. If you're willing, I would also appreciate your reasons. I will not criticize your choice. I would just honestly like to know where USMB posters stand on this issue.

NOTE: I know there are many possible variables, but this poll assumes "typical" circumstances. In other words, this is a superficial poll that assumes "normal/average" circumstances - meaning no rape, incest, health, deformity, financial, or other extenuating issues.

I am just grateful that Hillary Clinton was able to abort all of Bills kids.

 

[frigidweirdo]

This is a sincere poll. I would appreciate honest answers. If you're willing, I would also appreciate your reasons. I will not criticize your choice. I would just honestly like to know where USMB posters stand on this issue.

NOTE: I know there are many possible variables, but this poll assumes "typical" circumstances. In other words, this is a superficial poll that assumes "normal/average" circumstances - meaning no rape, incest, health, deformity, financial, or other extenuating issues.

The issues here for me are this.

1) There are far too many people on this planet.
2) If kids are going to be brought into this world, we should give them a decent shot at it. No point bringing someone into the world just to put up with misery their whole life.
3) Once a child comes into this world, they're a part of the world. People have emotional attachments towards them that are far harder to deal with than those of fetuses. If an individual doesn't feel that attachment to the fetus, then it's their choice.
4) about 75% of fetuses end up being aborted naturally anyway. If there were god (because abortion seems to be a religious issue) and this god wanted people to be alive, he wouldn't have given all these diseases and he wouldn't have made most pregnancies end in natural abortion before the mother even knows it.

There are not too many people on the planet....in fact, Europe isn't replacing it's population....in fact, as nations become wealthy, their people have fewer children....

There are too many people on the planet:

World Population Growth

It is growing at a rate that is unsustainable. Years ago, there was an effort called Zero Population Growth to limit the population to a sustainable size, but the ignorant oafs and louts rejected it. Now we have a problem, and you want it to get worse?

Why is it that hysterics bemoaning the "overpopulation problem" always want to solve it by someone ELSE dying? Why don't YOU go first?

So we should never have abortion because it's someone else dying, even though they not really alive.

 

[Lysistrata]

This is a sincere poll. I would appreciate honest answers. If you're willing, I would also appreciate your reasons. I will not criticize your choice. I would just honestly like to know where USMB posters stand on this issue.

NOTE: I know there are many possible variables, but this poll assumes "typical" circumstances. In other words, this is a superficial poll that assumes "normal/average" circumstances - meaning no rape, incest, health, deformity, financial, or other extenuating issues.

I am just grateful that Hillary Clinton was able to abort all of Bills kids.

How do you know anything of the sort? You are the one making the assertion that Sen. Clinton aborted any pregnancy that she and her husband started, so it is up to you to explain how you know this. You must have been Sen. Clinton's closest friend, so spill the beans.

 

[KGB]

This is a sincere poll. I would appreciate honest answers. If you're willing, I would also appreciate your reasons. I will not criticize your choice. I would just honestly like to know where USMB posters stand on this issue.

NOTE: I know there are many possible variables, but this poll assumes "typical" circumstances. In other words, this is a superficial poll that assumes "normal/average" circumstances - meaning no rape, incest, health, deformity, financial, or other extenuating issues.

The issues here for me are this.

1) There are far too many people on this planet.
2) If kids are going to be brought into this world, we should give them a decent shot at it. No point bringing someone into the world just to put up with misery their whole life.
3) Once a child comes into this world, they're a part of the world. People have emotional attachments towards them that are far harder to deal with than those of fetuses. If an individual doesn't feel that attachment to the fetus, then it's their choice.
4) about 75% of fetuses end up being aborted naturally anyway. If there were god (because abortion seems to be a religious issue) and this god wanted people to be alive, he wouldn't have given all these diseases and he wouldn't have made most pregnancies end in natural abortion before the mother even knows it.

There are not too many people on the planet....in fact, Europe isn't replacing it's population....in fact, as nations become wealthy, their people have fewer children....

There are too many people on the planet:

World Population Growth

It is growing at a rate that is unsustainable. Years ago, there was an effort called Zero Population Growth to limit the population to a sustainable size, but the ignorant oafs and louts rejected it. Now we have a problem, and you want it to get worse?

Why is it that hysterics bemoaning the "overpopulation problem" always want to solve it by someone ELSE dying? Why don't YOU go first?

So we should never have abortion because it's someone else dying, even though they not really alive.

Biology would disagree with you.

And we shouldn’t have abortion because it’s murder & barabaric.

 

[John Shaw]

This is a sincere poll. I would appreciate honest answers. If you're willing, I would also appreciate your reasons. I will not criticize your choice. I would just honestly like to know where USMB posters stand on this issue.

NOTE: I know there are many possible variables, but this poll assumes "typical" circumstances. In other words, this is a superficial poll that assumes "normal/average" circumstances - meaning no rape, incest, health, deformity, financial, or other extenuating issues.

The answer is;

I don't care.

I'm not a woman. It's not my problem.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The issues here for me are this.

1) There are far too many people on this planet.
2) If kids are going to be brought into this world, we should give them a decent shot at it. No point bringing someone into the world just to put up with misery their whole life.
3) Once a child comes into this world, they're a part of the world. People have emotional attachments towards them that are far harder to deal with than those of fetuses. If an individual doesn't feel that attachment to the fetus, then it's their choice.
4) about 75% of fetuses end up being aborted naturally anyway. If there were god (because abortion seems to be a religious issue) and this god wanted people to be alive, he wouldn't have given all these diseases and he wouldn't have made most pregnancies end in natural abortion before the mother even knows it.

There are not too many people on the planet....in fact, Europe isn't replacing it's population....in fact, as nations become wealthy, their people have fewer children....

There are too many people on the planet:

World Population Growth

It is growing at a rate that is unsustainable. Years ago, there was an effort called Zero Population Growth to limit the population to a sustainable size, but the ignorant oafs and louts rejected it. Now we have a problem, and you want it to get worse?

Why is it that hysterics bemoaning the "overpopulation problem" always want to solve it by someone ELSE dying? Why don't YOU go first?

So we should never have abortion because it's someone else dying, even though they not really alive.

Biology would disagree with you.

And we shouldn’t have abortion because it’s murder & barabaric.

But we should have war, executions and guns because.....

 

[KGB]

There are not too many people on the planet....in fact, Europe isn't replacing it's population....in fact, as nations become wealthy, their people have fewer children....

There are too many people on the planet:

World Population Growth

It is growing at a rate that is unsustainable. Years ago, there was an effort called Zero Population Growth to limit the population to a sustainable size, but the ignorant oafs and louts rejected it. Now we have a problem, and you want it to get worse?

Why is it that hysterics bemoaning the "overpopulation problem" always want to solve it by someone ELSE dying? Why don't YOU go first?

So we should never have abortion because it's someone else dying, even though they not really alive.

Biology would disagree with you.

And we shouldn’t have abortion because it’s murder & barabaric.

But we should have war, executions and guns because.....

War occurs for many reasons. There is just war & unjust war. If you are attacked you have the right to self defense.

We have executions because there needs to be a deterrent to criminal behavior & to see justice served. However this isn’t summary execution, it follows due process.

We have guns because there are assholes in the world who covet what other people have or seek to do harm to others. It’s also a tool meant to hunt & to protect a nation.

Abortion serves no need other than the fact it offers convenience. Yes I get the whole rape, incest & life to the mother (those are reasonable), but a person who uses it as a birth control method is barbaric.

 

[bodecea]

Life begins at conception. If it begins it was God's will...and so the fertilized egg has first priority. If woman does not want the child...put it up for adoption.

So this is a human life?

 

[Lysistrata]

There are too many people on the planet:

World Population Growth

It is growing at a rate that is unsustainable. Years ago, there was an effort called Zero Population Growth to limit the population to a sustainable size, but the ignorant oafs and louts rejected it. Now we have a problem, and you want it to get worse?

Why is it that hysterics bemoaning the "overpopulation problem" always want to solve it by someone ELSE dying? Why don't YOU go first?

So we should never have abortion because it's someone else dying, even though they not really alive.

Biology would disagree with you.

And we shouldn’t have abortion because it’s murder & barabaric.

But we should have war, executions and guns because.....

War occurs for many reasons. There is just war & unjust war. If you are attacked you have the right to self defense.

We have executions because there needs to be a deterrent to criminal behavior & to see justice served. However this isn’t summary execution, it follows due process.

We have guns because there are assholes in the world who covet what other people have or seek to do harm to others. It’s also a tool meant to hunt & to protect a nation.

Abortion serves no need other than the fact it offers convenience. Yes I get the whole rape, incest & life to the mother (those are reasonable), but a person who uses it as a birth control method is barbaric.

You are incredibly stupid if you think that this is just "convenience." Most normal people understand that methods of birth control do have failure rates. How can you be so moronic as to think that a person would rather undergo a surgical procedure than avoid the problem in the first place? You must be nuts. You are even more nuts if you are one of those people who believe that people should not have access to and use technology to avoid unwanted pregnancy in the first place.

You sound as if you are a follower of a monkey religion.

 

[frigidweirdo]

There are too many people on the planet:

World Population Growth

It is growing at a rate that is unsustainable. Years ago, there was an effort called Zero Population Growth to limit the population to a sustainable size, but the ignorant oafs and louts rejected it. Now we have a problem, and you want it to get worse?

Why is it that hysterics bemoaning the "overpopulation problem" always want to solve it by someone ELSE dying? Why don't YOU go first?

So we should never have abortion because it's someone else dying, even though they not really alive.

Biology would disagree with you.

And we shouldn’t have abortion because it’s murder & barabaric.

But we should have war, executions and guns because.....

War occurs for many reasons. There is just war & unjust war. If you are attacked you have the right to self defense.

We have executions because there needs to be a deterrent to criminal behavior & to see justice served. However this isn’t summary execution, it follows due process.

We have guns because there are assholes in the world who covet what other people have or seek to do harm to others. It’s also a tool meant to hunt & to protect a nation.

Abortion serves no need other than the fact it offers convenience. Yes I get the whole rape, incest & life to the mother (those are reasonable), but a person who uses it as a birth control method is barbaric.

Wars happen for many reasons, and how many of the US's wars have been started by the US?

When was the last time the US was attacked by another country? 1941. That was the last time the US went to war for defensive reasons.

For example with the Iraq War in 2003 the US lied, claimed it was about something it wasn't. It was all about getting at OPEC, and it worked and the US has become richer because of that war.

Executions are needed because you're "pro-life"? The US has executions and one of the largest prison populations in the world per capita AND higher crime rates. Louisiana is the prison capital of the WORLD, and has the highest murder rate in the US.

It's clearly not working, is it?

Let's try this.
Texas has executed 7 people this year.
Georgia has executed 2 people this year.
Alabama has executed 2 people this year.
Florida has executed one person this year.

Alabama is 3rd in the list of states by murder rate.
Georgia is 14th.
Florida is 22nd
Texas is 23rd.

Now, according to your logic they should be 47th, 48th, 49th and 50th. Yet they're all in the top half. Why?

Yes, you have guns because there are assholes.

I'm not asking for reasons why these things exist.

How can someone be "pro-life" and then support executions. That's a massive contradiction. Same with wars.

This is the issue here. You're talking about saving lives and then talking about ending lives.

The problem is the abortion issue is a religious issue. There's no other reason to oppose abortions in the modern world.

Back in the day babies died in their thousands. In bad years countries could see their population dwindle. The plague in Europe was killing an estimated 30% - 60% of the people.

In 1730 75% of children died before the age of 5.

Children were vitally important for a society. Humans weren't progressing during the dark ages.

But this isn't the dark ages.

Today we have a population that has never, ever been reached before. We've a higher population today than yesterday, and yesterday was the highest we'd ever reached.

We don't need to bring babies into this world just for them to live in misery just with the hope they'd make it to adulthood and reproduce. We can reproduce like rabbits even with abortion.

If we continue on at this rate, we, as humans, are going to suffer. We're already having a massively negative impact on the oceans, which are massively important to life on this planet.

This is where we have to be a little philosophical.

Here's a question I want you to answer.

Is it better to die of starvation or better to die with a bullet to the head in war?

This situation is a little different, but we need to control the population of the world. So abortion becomes a necessary tool. Let's make sure those who are born have the best possible chances.

It's like playing a game where you have limited space but have to make the most of that limited space.

 

[oreo]

Life begins at conception. If it begins it was God's will...and so the fertilized egg has first priority. If woman does not want the child...put it up for adoption.

The woman will always take priority, because without her the fertilized egg and fetus doesn't exist--

That's like choosing the golden egg, over the golden goose that lays the golden eggs--

 

[Norman]

Why is it that hysterics bemoaning the "overpopulation problem" always want to solve it by someone ELSE dying? Why don't YOU go first?

So we should never have abortion because it's someone else dying, even though they not really alive.

Biology would disagree with you.

And we shouldn’t have abortion because it’s murder & barabaric.

But we should have war, executions and guns because.....

War occurs for many reasons. There is just war & unjust war. If you are attacked you have the right to self defense.

We have executions because there needs to be a deterrent to criminal behavior & to see justice served. However this isn’t summary execution, it follows due process.

We have guns because there are assholes in the world who covet what other people have or seek to do harm to others. It’s also a tool meant to hunt & to protect a nation.

Abortion serves no need other than the fact it offers convenience. Yes I get the whole rape, incest & life to the mother (those are reasonable), but a person who uses it as a birth control method is barbaric.

Wars happen for many reasons, and how many of the US's wars have been started by the US?

When was the last time the US was attacked by another country? 1941. That was the last time the US went to war for defensive reasons.

For example with the Iraq War in 2003 the US lied, claimed it was about something it wasn't. It was all about getting at OPEC, and it worked and the US has become richer because of that war.

Executions are needed because you're "pro-life"? The US has executions and one of the largest prison populations in the world per capita AND higher crime rates. Louisiana is the prison capital of the WORLD, and has the highest murder rate in the US.

It's clearly not working, is it?

Let's try this.
Texas has executed 7 people this year.
Georgia has executed 2 people this year.
Alabama has executed 2 people this year.
Florida has executed one person this year.

Alabama is 3rd in the list of states by murder rate.
Georgia is 14th.
Florida is 22nd
Texas is 23rd.

Now, according to your logic they should be 47th, 48th, 49th and 50th. Yet they're all in the top half. Why?

Yes, you have guns because there are assholes.

I'm not asking for reasons why these things exist.

How can someone be "pro-life" and then support executions. That's a massive contradiction. Same with wars.

This is the issue here. You're talking about saving lives and then talking about ending lives.

The problem is the abortion issue is a religious issue. There's no other reason to oppose abortions in the modern world.

Back in the day babies died in their thousands. In bad years countries could see their population dwindle. The plague in Europe was killing an estimated 30% - 60% of the people.

In 1730 75% of children died before the age of 5.

Children were vitally important for a society. Humans weren't progressing during the dark ages.

But this isn't the dark ages.

Today we have a population that has never, ever been reached before. We've a higher population today than yesterday, and yesterday was the highest we'd ever reached.

We don't need to bring babies into this world just for them to live in misery just with the hope they'd make it to adulthood and reproduce. We can reproduce like rabbits even with abortion.

If we continue on at this rate, we, as humans, are going to suffer. We're already having a massively negative impact on the oceans, which are massively important to life on this planet.

This is where we have to be a little philosophical.

Here's a question I want you to answer.

Is it better to die of starvation or better to die with a bullet to the head in war?

This situation is a little different, but we need to control the population of the world. So abortion becomes a necessary tool. Let's make sure those who are born have the best possible chances.

It's like playing a game where you have limited space but have to make the most of that limited space.

Abortion becomes a necessary tool to control the population of the world?

Which population would that be? The white population that is already below replacement level? Or would that be the black population? Did I just hear a lefty advocating for a genocide again?

 

[Lakhota]

It would be extremely helpful if anti-choice zealots cared about children after they are born.

 

[oreo]

It would be extremely helpful if anti-choice zealots cared about children after they are born.

 

[Lysistrata]

Unfortunately, I fear that there will be a serious attack on Americans' rights. We will end up with "free states" and "slave states" once again, the destruction of religious freedom, the establishment of a theocracy run by the worst among us, and a great big backlash.

You really going to be hooked into this bullshit.

Roe is meaningless and you'll be able to all the abortions you want.

How is it that you people think this country can fall apart over one SCOTUS nominee.

The ensuing risk of loss of Americans' rights. As I said, a pattern of "free states" and "slave states" will emerge. Once the government takes over a person's rights to control her/his own body and establishes a state religion to which all of us are compelled to adhere, what else will be destroyed next.

What ensuing risk of what rights.

The 10th amendment allows for differences in states.

46 states had laws against abortion but people were still killing off fetuses at the rate of a million a year.

There were no slave states then.

You guys have to get a better argument than this.

No state has a right to violate a right held by an individual pursuant to the U.S. Constitution. One's body is not the property of the state. One's choice of religion, if any, is not to be encroached upon by the state. One's right to privacy is not to be encroached upon by the state.

All of these rights are being threatened, and, thus liberty is being threatened.

Nazism and theocratic dictatorship should not be allowed to take hold in our nation.

We've already discussed this on other boards.

States were making abortion laws prior to 1973 and will continue to do so if Roe is repealed.

There is no such thing as a right to an abortion.

Yes, there is. There is a fundamental right to control one's own physical body. No one's body can be owned by the state unless one is incarcerated for committing a crime.

 

[Lysistrata]

There are too many people on the planet:

World Population Growth

It is growing at a rate that is unsustainable. Years ago, there was an effort called Zero Population Growth to limit the population to a sustainable size, but the ignorant oafs and louts rejected it. Now we have a problem, and you want it to get worse?

Why is it that hysterics bemoaning the "overpopulation problem" always want to solve it by someone ELSE dying? Why don't YOU go first?

So we should never have abortion because it's someone else dying, even though they not really alive.

Biology would disagree with you.

And we shouldn’t have abortion because it’s murder & barabaric.

But we should have war, executions and guns because.....

War occurs for many reasons. There is just war & unjust war. If you are attacked you have the right to self defense.

We have executions because there needs to be a deterrent to criminal behavior & to see justice served. However this isn’t summary execution, it follows due process.

We have guns because there are assholes in the world who covet what other people have or seek to do harm to others. It’s also a tool meant to hunt & to protect a nation.

Abortion serves no need other than the fact it offers convenience. Yes I get the whole rape, incest & life to the mother (those are reasonable), but a person who uses it as a birth control method is barbaric.

How many people who have open access to other birth-control methods and know that these methods are available use abortion as a birth-control method? How would you even know this?

Your idea that a person would more likely choose to undergo an expensive and invasive medical procedure in places in which absurd restrictions are imposed on it by big-brother government than to choose to take a pill or have a preventive device implanted is illogical and absolutely ridiculous. Where do you folks get this stuff from? Do you just make it up?

 

[Cecilie1200]

It would be extremely helpful if anti-choice zealots cared about children after they are born.

It would be extremely helpful if leftists didn't insist that we treat their delusional prejudices as reality.